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September 18, 2018, 11:00:25 PM
605963 Posts in 46741 Topics by 6211 Members
Latest Member: Edickoff Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  My Life, Day 14,089 « previous next »
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Author Topic: My Life, Day 14,089  (Read 1603 times)
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2017, 06:10:03 PM »

Continuing . . .

What the writer got write.

The subject's . . .
Apparently, she could read and understand not only English, but also Latin, Greek, and even Hebrew.

Success as monarch.
Certainly, more so than the woman who proceeded her, and I should say with the help of her teenage husband, who not only sat in on the Privy council, when they had a Privy council, but actually chaired her Privy council.

Fanatic. Yes.
Religious fanaticism makes many of us uncomfortable, even if it is Christian fanaticism, especially when it comes from a child, as she was, so this part of her is often overlooked, but she was fanatical in her belief as a Protestant.

 Necessary removal. Yes.
But not for the reason normally given, which we'll get to later.

Her age. 17.
Yesterday, it was thought, she was only 16, when she was executed.
Today, her birthday has been pushed back, so we now believe she was 17, when executed, but still a child in many ways.

38. She came from a household of 200 to 300 servants, and she probably would have gone back to a household of the same size, after she was married.

48. What a girl should know, ere they marry. We know what she was taught, we just don't know whether this was what she was taught. If not, she was actually ill-educated to be a wife, a mother, a housewife, which people often fail to remember.

130. Even if it is only a footnote, Matilda was the 1st woman to make a try for the throne of England. For which I have always had a sneaky admiration.

157. Her father tearing down the royal canopy, when she was no longer Queen. Which actually plays out as a scene in one of the fictional books on her life.

196. Jane and Mary. Both had a steadfast adherence to religion. Unfortunately, it was two different religions--Protestantism and Catholicism--with neither one apparently willing to compromise with the other.

Numbers are the page numbers of the book, where these can be found.

Next time: what the writer got wrong.
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2017, 02:24:29 PM »

Continuing . . .

What the writer got wrong.
The number is the page number where the info is found.

His age
Yesterday: it was thought that he was the typical husband, who was older than his wife.
Today: it is thought that he was the atypical husband, who was younger than his wife.

And as further proof, the writer may have got it wrong. The writer has the youngest brother born in 1538 or 1539, and with the husband thought to be only a year older than his younger brother, he'd be born in 1537 or 1538, not 1535, as she has it.

Boys were more valuable than girls.
Yes and no.
The 1st and 2nd sons, or the heir and the spare, were valuable, after that any boys were a drag on the family finances. There were the apprentice fees, the education fees, till some time in the ir 20s, when the boy could contribute to his family. At least a girl would bring her dowry to her husband's family.

20. Henry VIIII. was loved by all.
No. If European Protestants and Catholics could agree on anything, then it was their dislike of Henry VIII. He was liked someone better by his subjects. When liked by most of his subjects at the beginning of his reign, he was liked by a third to half of his subjects by the end of his reign.

295. The husband never won his wife's heart.
Maybe yes or no, but he did win something--her respect. As when she was still queen, she signed official documents with her married name or Jane Dudley. And when she left a bit of graffiti on the wall of her cell, when she was imprisoned, she also signed it Jane Dudley. And when asked to be the godmother of the newborn son of one of her jailers, she said yes, and when then asked what to name the boy, she said: "Name him after my husband. Name him Guildford."

Who initiated the plot to put her on the throne?
Yesterday: it was thought to be her father-in-law, who wanted to maintain his hold on power.
Today: it is thought it was the young king, who knew he was dying and wanted to maintain the Protestant reforms initiated by him.

130. Where she is listed as 3rd in line to the throne, behind her 2 cousins,  she was actually 4th, or behind her 2 cousins and her mother.

136. While the Church gave its blessings to a girl who married at 12. Certainly, it was a marriage of cohabitation, where the wife lived with her husband and his family, but slept in her own bed. Not a marriage of consummation, as the writer seems to have it. For we have historical proof of what happened when a girl of 12 consummated her marriage. Married at 12. Sex at 12 with her husband.
Pregnant at 13. Gives birth to child at 13. She was lucky both the mother and child survived, but the mother was so torn up inside delivering the child, she would never have anymore children.

155. Support from Europe.
The new queen, replacing this queen, received no support from Europe at the beginning of her attempt to gain the throne. Europeans were satisfied with the way things were going. It was only after it looked like the new queen would replace the old queen, did the rest of Europe come to the new queen's support.

156. No likeness of the subject or her husband.
Again maybe yes or no. Someone who is an expert on portraits from this area, while he is not 100% sure one portrait is a contemporary portrait of the subject, he is 90% sure it is her. As her husband,  the portrait believed to be him has never been identified as him, but it has never been identified as anyone else neither. Unlike the portrait of what was thought to be his mother-in-law and her 2nd husband, which has now been identified as being 2 different people.

To be continued . . .

Next time: again more on what the writer got wrong (IMHO.)
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 02:38:20 PM »

Continuing . . .
with what the writer got wrong (IMHO)
Again, the number is the page where the fact can be found.

210. Jane understood her father-in-law's reason for changing his religion to Catholicism.
or, maybe not. maybe he was not trying to save his life, but the lives of his 5 sons--2 of whom were boys still in their teens.

 30. Katherine's death was due to anorexia or tuberculosis.
actually, it was a combination of tuberculosis compounded by anorexia.

Matilda's "supposed" arrogance.
nothing supposed about it. she was arrogant. even her biographers that are favorable to her pronounce her arrogance, but if she was not arrogant, would she not be the 1st woman to make a try for the throne of England?

219. [Mary] had no wish to see Jane her cousin die.
if she did, then she had lied to others and she lied to herself, because she had the power to prevent her cousin's death.

238. Cramped quarters.
again, maybe not. I have visited the prison cell where jane's husband and 3 of his brothers were imprisoned, and it is a fairly large room. of course, with the servants also bunking there, and the husband had 2 servants, and his brothers probably each had the same number. it'd be more crowded, but still doable, without being too "cramped."

219. Need to execute husband wife.
no. at least not for the reason given, which we'll get to later.

211. For similar aims and ambition.
or, why the father of jane's father-in-law was executed, or, maybe not. As what is the quickest way for a new monarch to become popular with the populace. that is to execute, with or without justification, an unpopular member of the old government. which is probably the reason jane's father-in-law's father was executed.

280. Executed for her [Jane's] father's crime.
an excuse. the true reason that jane and her husband were executed were their--at least on her part--strong opposition to converting England from Protestantism to Catholicism. And less than a decade later, they knew this was just an excuse, as foxe pointed out in his book of martyrs the true reason for their deaths.

338, "Iane" his mother.
while the husband's mother's name was jane or iane as it was spelled then, it refers not to his mother, but to his wife jane. a boy does not call his mother by her 1st name, he calls her mother or mom or ma, or if in the U.K. then mum, but he'd call his wife by her 1st name.

Next time: the writer's biases.
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 06:45:08 PM »

Continuing . . .
Nicola Tallis' Crown of Blood
And just as some men have a bias against women, then some women, such as the writer, have a bias against men.
Again, the number is the page, where the fact can be found.

The writer takes the subject's hubby to task for his petulance, when his wife refused to make him king or king consort, but only a duke. Not that hubby did not mishandle it, but there are reasons. None of which the writer mentions.

1st. That was a terrible snub. when his wife, seemingly, at first agreed to make him king or king consort, then changed her mind.

2nd. He was a product of time, which was almost totally sexist, as it was believed that a woman could not make a decision on her own, but had to be told what to do by her parents and later her husband.

3rd. Everyone was winging it. This was only the second time something like this had come up, and the first time was over 400 years before this.

217. The subject's father/hubby's father-in-law can express his abhorrence for Catholicism and is taken to task by the writer for it, but have the subject express the same thing, and the writer says nothing about it.

242. The writer takes father/father-in-law to task for his stupidity, and--yes--he did some things that were totally stupid, but so did most of the women featured in the book, including the book's subject, and nowhere does the writer take any of these women to task for their stupidity.

The writer is not only biased against something, but she is biased for something, such as a love match between man and woman. All of these were love matches by at least one of the people involved.

Robert and Amy
ending in the wife's death, which is now believed to have been suicide.
Henry and Anne
ending in the wife's execution
Henry and Katherine
ending in the wife's execution
Mary and Philip
ending in disappointment for both of the people involved.

Thus, the marriage between the subject and her husband looks good by comparison. At least the subject had enough respect for her husband, that she had her godson named after her husband.

To be continued:

Who was the better person: the wife or the husband.
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2017, 05:59:09 PM »

Continuing . . .
Nicola Tallis' Crown of Blood

You were a better spouse than I was, my husband.

Husband and wife.

While they sometimes come out as equals, normally, the wife comes out as a much better person than her husband. Only in Susan Higginbotham's "Her Highness, the Traitor" does her husband come out better than the wife. Even though, by some standards, he is actually the equal or better than her.

Both were a martyr for their faith, which even his wife understood to be true.

Both had their moments. He: when she went back on her word to make him king or king consort, but only a duke. She: he morning after their wedding night. She found their 1st wedding night such a disaster, that the next morning, she went home to her parents, and they had to send her sister-in-law after her to bring her back to her husband and his family.

If he was a Momma's boy, then she was Daddy's little girl. Being favored by her father, while her two younger sisters were favored by their mother.

Both father-in-laws were equally to blame for what happened, but, unlike his wife, who blamed her father-in-law for what happened, he never blamed his father-in-law for what happened.

He was the one most interested in politics. He is the one who chaired her privy council, when she still had a privy council.

His faith may have been stronger than hers. When he asked for a spiritual comforter, a Protestant minister, to accompany him to his execution. He was turned down. Then, he was offered the same Catholic priest that accompanied his wife to her execution, he turned that down. Thus he went to his execution without any spiritual comfort.

And by the standards of today, he really comes across as being the more typical teen than his wife. He, who wanted a last meeting and kiss from his wife, ere their execution. Yet she turned him down, as she thought it would interfere with their spiritual contemplation, and that they would soon be together in heaven.

Thus, how did he go from giving a favorable impression in the past to an unfavorable impression in the present? Even those who think the unfavorable impression of him today is inappropriate, thus have a more favorable impression of him in the present, have not been able to answer that question.

And I really, really need to get a hold of a copy of Susan Higginbotham's Her Highness, the Traitor.

Next time: what it has all been leading to: how things are the same from 450 years ago and how things have changed from 450 years ago?
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2017, 03:54:54 PM »

What all this has been leading up to. How things have changed, and how things have stayed the same from 450 years ago.

People still prefer the incompetent and likable o'er the competent and unlikable.

While we are still concerned about mental and physical illness, we are probably less concerned than they were 450 years ago, because we now know how to treat mental and physical illnesses.

While some couples now write their own wedding vows, some couples still use the same wedding vows that they used 450 years ago.

Intolerance of the faith of others shaped lives to a greater degree than it does now.

Be careful what you wish for. You may get it. The same then as now.

People sought out religious martyrdom to a greater extent then, they most likely do now.

People believe what they want to believe. Whether it is the truth or not may not be as important.

And sometimes the wrong side won.

Next time: final thoughts and then a book from a woman writer who really seems to understand the male mind.

Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2017, 03:28:57 PM »

Nicola Tallis' Crown of Blood
Final comments

50,000 people turned out for her father-in-law's execution on Tower Hill. She had a more private execution on Tower Green within the Tower of London with her execution being watched by 100 to 200 people.

For a reign that lasted less than 2 weeks, it spawned at least 2 operas, 3 films, and countless books, both fiction and nonfiction, plays, and poems.

The height of her appeal appears to have been 1827 and 1877, when 2 dozen paintings of her were painted, or, almost 1 every 2 years.

Oddly enough or not, while we know the godparents of her husband, his godfather was the Spanish ambassador to England, which gives us some idea when her husband was born, and his godmother was apparently Mary I. Though, their relationship was not enough for her not to sign her godson's death warrant. We do not know who Jane's godparents were, as important as they were. We have no idea who her godmother was. Her godfather may have been Thomas Cromwell. If so, I can imagine her parents started doing some backpedaling, when Cromwell went to the bloc for treason.

Finally, on p. 304 of the book and thereafter, the writer provides a list of the places associated with the subject of the book.

Next time: a woman writer who seemingly understands better than most women writers, including this one, he male mind.
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2017, 01:45:14 PM »

Reasons to read Leandra de Lisle

Leandra de Lisle's
Tudor Passion, Manipulation, Murder : the Story of England's Most Notorious Royal Family

01. She truly understands the male mind. Which is why most of the men, both young and old, in the book get a reevaluation and a rehabilitation of their reputation.

02. Only Lord Darnley seems to be immune to any type of reevaluation and rehabilitation.

03. Instead of 6 biographies about 6 people, we get 1 biography about 6 people, which means we get to see the patterns.

04. One pattern is that depression ran rampant thru the Tudors. Only the two youngest rulers seemed to have escaped, and that might be because they both died while still in their teens.

05. We have 6 monarchies that began relatively well, but ended badly, if not for the public, then for the ruler themselves.

06. We judge them using a double standard.

07. Which is why Henry VIII comes off better than his father Henry VII, and Elizabeth I comes off better than her half sister Mary I. Though both pairs were equal in both the good and the bad.

08. His portraits show what a dominating presence Henry VIII was.

09. Winners writer the histories.

To be continued . . .
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
B-Movie Kraken

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A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!

« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2017, 05:49:07 PM »

How did a day from ER's journal somehow become a rambling dissertation on books read by BoyScout Kevin?

"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema

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The world becomes a dream....

« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2017, 09:44:35 AM »

Hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth, man, I'll take a the replies I can get...

"If I should meet thee after long years,

How shall I greet thee? With silence, and tears."

--Lord Byron
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