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I gots a blog on Tumblr- and lotsa the young folks use things like "He/Him" or " She/ He/ Them" to describe theirselves. Huh?  :question: Why? What's "them"? That's the word that freaks me out. Giant ants? I mean- I dunno. I must be stupid.

For the undesignated gender, "proper" English would be "he" or "him", which is out of fashion.  But, many times we may all use the plural pronoun of "they" or "them" with again the concept of no definition. 

I think it's okay but I am happy as a man and never wanted to be the other sex.  I do not understand it, but who are any of us to judge? 

It doesn't bug me, I just didn't understand why they feel the need to tell me. I mean, I can usually figure it out myself. And I could care less either way. I judge people by their thoughts. Not their sexual prefernces.
This shmuck in Florida- DeSantis. He's the next Trump. I don't think either will win the nomination in 2024.
I hope not, at least.  :bluesad:

its a passing trend

It's a flaw in our beautiful language that no one has come up with a non-gender specific singular pronoun. To say they or them when referring to one person is not only atrocious grammar but inefficient and frequently confusing, and one more reason my regard for society continues to dim.

https://uwm.edu/lgbtrc/support/gender-pronouns/

 :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle:

I once joined a board where putting your chosen pronouns was a must so I put ZOMBIE/WAS PEOPLE as pronouns: didn't go over well.  :buggedout:

Sometime soon something immense is going to happen in the world---major war, nuclear terrorism, a graver pandemic---and teach people how silly all this word-policing they thought important really was. Such soft times we live in for inanities like this to feel important, and so many more significant issues with which to concern oneself. It's like the poor rich fools at Versailles just before the Revolution, playing their serious little games before the mob got to the gate.

ER, I hope you are wrong.  Our world is terrifying, violent, cruel.  Perhaps more reason to be considerate, polite and kind.  Just plain good manners seem such a small demand.  We are not living in soft times.  We are living in cynical times. 

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Agreed.

Even at work employees have the option to post pronouns under their username.  I was hoping to make my own custom pronouns, like "steak and cheese sandwich" or "T-Rex" or "electric guitar", but only the usual he/she/they/them/etc. were available.

I think the matter comes down to common courtesy, which everyone deserves, versus an expectation of privilege, which no one does.

As a courtesy I try not to tell others how to live, and it's nice when others return the courtesy.

Huh?  Who cares really about how a person wishes to be addressed?  A request for courtesy is not an expectation of privilege.  Dude. :lookingup:

Dam, no one is trying to blow s**t in your face. Just don't listen, if it bugs you. Simple as that.

No, I was talking with two young members of the alphabet community last night at my daughter's party and privilege is the word they used and said there's a strong feeling that some --

You know what, who gives two shakes?

Ah! "The alphabet community".  I agree with Lester.  It's a fad. 

I don't give a f**k what anybody calls themselves. I call myself Bela on this forum. Nobody cares. I don't dislike it, I just don't care. Folks can call themselves Martians- I don't care. When they call themselves Nazis or serial killers, then I would worry.

 :bouncegiggle:

To Cerebus- you don't like folks espressing their beliefs- but God forbid if they are not a Trumper. Gimme a break. He tried to stage a coup with his 'putsch'. That man actually killed people with his mouth and actions on Jan.6.
So quit the pity party.

So, once again, I take it that it's okay when your side does it?

I have said many time- I DON'T CARE- in this post.
And your point of view, in IMHO, seems like you hate gays.
Just because you hate your life- don't try to make others miserable.
By the way- what is my side? I don't CARE.
I don't even know why you try to debate- you have no argumentive skills whatsoever- You always say- "What about this guy!" or " But he did that!" You never answer a question- you just divert it.

You're certainly acting like you care, A lot more than I would...
So far, all I've done is share a meme.

Uh huh. I saw it. So you don't care either?  :question:
I don't care if people identify as an other sex. I DO care when folks trash folks.
By the way- your non- intrusive meme is most certaintly anti trans. Again- you divert. You're not good at that either. Give it up. Just answer ONE just ONE question- do you not like gays?
I know you'll just divert that to some irrelevant bulls**t.

Once again, a simple joke went straight over your head, and predictably, you've gone strait to projecting your own pitiful self loathing & hatred for the world onto someone else.

I'm done with this thread.

Yup. You didn't answer the question.  :lookingup:
Your're done with this thread because I hit a nerve. Hide behind your Trump flag, big man.
Your avatar tag says " nothing to see here". That's the only thing you have stated that has any kind of insight.

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^ Yer right of course. It's like trying to debate a bag of doorknobs.

Related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

I think this moronic conversation about dumb s**t has run it's course!  :bouncegiggle:

https://youtu.be/1saaf9Qs_U0

^  :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle: :bouncegiggle:

That about sums up this whole nonsense!

It's part of the "liberal, post-modern life".

As opposed to the Republican 1950's dream world life?

 :bouncegiggle:

And the JFK classical liberal life.

Well, JFK f**ked Marilyn and stopped the Cuban Missile crisis. Trump f**ked a porn star and want's to end "nuclear warming" Same s**t, right?  :lookingup:
Oh yeah- Kennedy didn't break so many laws that if he was me he'd be getting f**ked in prison.

I got no probs with peeps using pronouns, yo.

I identify as AFRICAN/ZOMBIE-WAS PEOPLE  :wink:

I'm referring to classical liberalism which started during JFK's time and not JFK, specifically.

One example can be found in this clip from Roddenberry's Star Trek:

Star Trek - "The Charming Negress"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BBOWsWODX4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BBOWsWODX4)

Lincoln's manifestation apologizes because he realizes that his views are antiquated, but Uhura states that she's not offended because in that future the "sticks and stones" bit applies. Kirk explains this phenomenon as the ability to adjust to differences and refers to Spock's culture as an example, which for Spock is needed in order to minimize conflict. From there Lincoln's manifestation recognizes it as the philosophy of nome:

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nome (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Nome)

which can probably be likened to classical liberalism, which is a combination of conservatism (two genders) and post-modern liberalism (50+ genders).

^  :question:
Sounds like a bunch of political gibberish.
I'm talking human beings, not politics.
What I was saying- Kennedy was a good man at heart, while Trump is a racist, misogynist, compulsive lying  narcissist.
Yup. Star Trek.  :lookingup:

I get it. I mean, I'm not trans but I've got quite a few friends that are trans and non-binary and some are fully transitioned or mid-way through. Some don't transition at all. I'm in the community a bit, but that's neither here nor there.

My favorite 'argument' from people against it is that 'they're shoving their agenda down our throats." Like, people have been gay/bi/trans for centuries but were targeted with hate crimes over it. It's 2023. They should be able to be out and proud about it.

Open discussion is a good thing.

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(https://i.imgur.com/AyIhIxv.gif) (https://lunapic.com)

 :bouncegiggle:

There was Xe/xey around 2012 I want to say that was supposed to be a gender neutral pronoun,  but it's a bit awkward to say in real life which is why, literally out of convenience,  people started to use they/them instead. Xe/xey is still around,  but it's rare.

^ That's what confuses me. The terminology.  :question:
That's the title of this thread!

I see the pronoun thing akin to someone introducing himself saying, “Hi, I’m Joseph, you can call me Joe.” and if people are comfortable, want to be friends, etc., they’ll call him Joe, if they don’t, well that’s fine too. 

What confuses me is the pronouns most often provided (she/her, they/them, etc.) are the ones used to reference you when someone talks to someone else about you.  They're almost never used politely in your presence unless it’s a group conversation.  So why are we telling everyone else how to talk about us to other people?  I get the intent for it to be a subtle, polite way of letting people know about certain important aspects of your life, but why are we not focusing more on direct name prefixes like Mr., Ms., Mx., etc?  Isn’t that what prefixes are for anyway?  To let others know about gender and important aspects of your life, like you’re a married woman or a doctor?  You can infer pronouns from there. 

If I think about it too much, I can almost be convinced that the obsession with pronouns was created by some evil mastermind that wanted to start controversy and cause division amongst folks by handing them new ways to offend and be offended, but I prefer to blame it on the long-term abandonment of caring about etiquette. 

From JFK himself:

https://yipinstitute.org/article/where-would-jfk-align-politically-today

On the Second Amendment:


On taxes:

“A tax cut means higher family income and higher business profits and a balanced federal budget. Every taxpayer and his family will have more money left over after taxes for a new car, a new home, new conveniences, education and investment. Every businessman can keep a higher percentage of his profits in his cash register or put it to work expanding or improving his business, and as the national income grows, the federal government will ultimately end up with more revenues.”

On Communism:

“There are many people in the world who really don’t understand, or say they don’t, what is the great issue between the free world and the communist world. Let them come to Berlin … There are some who say that communism is the wave of the future. Let them come to Berlin … And there are even a few who say that it’s true that communism is an evil system, but it permits us to make economic progress. ...let them come to Berlin!”

The only difference between him and the likes of Reagan involves taxes! Do you understand? JFK is what a liberal today would consider a conservative. A classical liberal is someone who takes the best of liberalism and conservatism, which is the point of the Star Trek: Uhura didn't mind being called a negress because words don't hurt her. Lincoln, who's a Republican, still apologized not only for racism that was part of his world but also for his fellow Democrats who that time supported slavery. And what about Kirk: he explains how in their world they learn to tolerate differences, and sees Spock and Vulcan's as models.

Now why would Roddenberry do all that? Because he was a classical liberal who idolized JFK. But as shown in JFK's words he was also a conservative.

Hopefully, this no longer sounds like "political gibberish" to you.

Finally, how do we see this in light of the "pronoun" stuff? What JFK implicitly slows is that there are limits to freedom; at some point, one also has to adhere to things that are part of tradition and authority. In which case, there may be people who think they are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual, non-sexual, etc., all the way to 50+ genders:

https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/02/heres-a-list-of-58-gender-options-for-facebook-users

but for a classical liberal there are only two genders, which means one is either a man or a woman who imagines he or see is someone else, and you can't force others to imagine the same.

Finally, at this point, you should understand that I was not only talking about politics but also about people, and for the simple reason that you can't have one without the other.

(https://i.imgur.com/gTTtpcw.jpg) (https://lunapic.com)

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Came from "wokes" and is part of a "liberal post-modern" life, i.e., that is, the assumption that everything is relative, including one's gender.

The problem is that the rich are encouraging it as part of "corporate social responsibility," and has now spilled over to government, such that one may be penalized for using the wrong pronouns. For example,

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/enoch-burke-teacher-transgender-pronouns-b2268405.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/enoch-burke-teacher-transgender-pronouns-b2268405.html)

https://vancouversun.com/news/fired-worker-awarded-30k-after-restaurant-co-worker-used-wrong-pronouns (https://vancouversun.com/news/fired-worker-awarded-30k-after-restaurant-co-worker-used-wrong-pronouns)

Finally, it's also gone beyond pronouns. For example,

https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/ (https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/)

https://www.reformer.com/local-news/coach-parent-daughter-student-sue-in-federal-court-over-mixed-gender-locker-room-in-randolph/article_9c3168a4-59f5-11ed-82f4-57580d013d61.html (https://www.reformer.com/local-news/coach-parent-daughter-student-sue-in-federal-court-over-mixed-gender-locker-room-in-randolph/article_9c3168a4-59f5-11ed-82f4-57580d013d61.html)

https://www.newsweek.com/trans-daughter-school-bathroom-girls-iowa-1790146 (https://www.newsweek.com/trans-daughter-school-bathroom-girls-iowa-1790146)

(https://i.imgur.com/fKrUSYU.jpg) (https://lunapic.com)

Examples:

https://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/1648836309752881154 (https://twitter.com/ImMeme0/status/1648836309752881154)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F_IljWXErM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F_IljWXErM)

https://www.instagram.com/p/CQwZtdvnDoz/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/p/CQwZtdvnDoz/?hl=en)

See

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq (https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq)


Also,


That means you can be biologically male, gender-wise female based on your preference, neither or both else based on what you're thinking at the moment, and neither or both based on any outward characteristics.

Some more examples:

England and Wales, 2021:

"Women face punishment for using wrong pronouns"

https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/ (https://insidetime.org/women-face-punishment-for-using-wrong-pronouns/)


Side note: transgender and women prisoners are locked together.

From 2016:

"Not using transgender pronouns could get you fined"

https://nypost.com/2016/05/19/city-issues-new-guidelines-on-transgender-pronouns/ (https://nypost.com/2016/05/19/city-issues-new-guidelines-on-transgender-pronouns/)


2017:

"New California law allows jail time for using wrong gender pronoun, sponsor denies that would happen"

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-for-using-wrong-gender-pronoun-sponsor-denies-that-would-happen (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/new-california-law-allows-jail-time-for-using-wrong-gender-pronoun-sponsor-denies-that-would-happen)


2016:

"You can be fined for not calling people ‘ze’ or ‘hir,’ if that’s the pronoun they demand that you use"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/05/17/you-can-be-fined-for-not-calling-people-ze-or-hir-if-thats-the-pronoun-they-demand-that-you-use/)


"Misgendering Is a Human Rights Violation, Canadian Court Rules"

https://www.them.us/story/canadian-court-rules-misgendering-human-rights-violation (https://www.them.us/story/canadian-court-rules-misgendering-human-rights-violation)


"Wisconsin Parents Sue School District for Refusing to Misgender Their Child"

https://www.them.us/story/wisconsin-parents-sue-school-district-refusing-misgender-their-child (https://www.them.us/story/wisconsin-parents-sue-school-district-refusing-misgender-their-child)


Related:

"Minnesota Mom Sues Her Trans Child Over Gender Reassignment"

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/minnesota-mom-sues-her-trans-child-over-gender-reassignment-n685266 (https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/minnesota-mom-sues-her-trans-child-over-gender-reassignment-n685266)


"Teacher gets $95,000 to settle lawsuit over refusal to use student’s preferred name"

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/01/us/kansas-teacher-suspend-settle/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/01/us/kansas-teacher-suspend-settle/index.html)


"Canadian Catholic school student who was suspended for protesting transgender bathroom policy speaks out"

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253702/canadian-catholic-school-student-who-was-suspended-for-protesting-transgender-bathroom-policy-speaks-out (https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/253702/canadian-catholic-school-student-who-was-suspended-for-protesting-transgender-bathroom-policy-speaks-out)

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I'm LBGTI (celibate) and I don't use pronouns although I don't have an issue with peeps using them.

^ The thing is, people should be concerned about REAL issues in this country, like gun violence, and not petty s**t like this.

Agreed: here by me the corruption is scary, we have water and electricity supply issues and the government thinks only about themselves, not us. ☹️

What do you mean by terminology,  which one goes where? If so then I'll gladly give it to you.
As for people putting pronouns in their name/bio I find that it's an easy way for some to express/be gendered correctly.

^ Sounds good to me. :thumbup:

In a nutshell:
Male/masculine identifying people use he/him
Female/feminine identifying people use she/her
Non binary (think of the third gender) mainly use they/them, occasionally you'll see it/it's, but it's a bit rare as it/it's is a bit dehumanizing.
Now what's newer are demimen and demiwomen. Demimen use both he/him and they/them, demiwomen use both she/her and they/them. If you're wondering why that is I just like to think of it as punk move to be nonconforming.
If you see someone using all three then that person is probably genderfluid, which generally means that the person doesn't care how you gender them.

To me they/them suggests multiple people rather than a single person, not to mention that when I was a kid calling someone "them" was the height of rudeness.

I couldn't care less what people call themselves.
Just don't call me late for dinner!

There is a certain rudeness in deviating from the norm and then expecting others to go along with the choice you have made in defining yourself, if that definition differs from what so many people would argue is reality. You have to admit, at the very least one person's declaration of innate gender is something others cannot themselves experience, as the situation is occurring inside someone else's mind and body, not within the testimony of the senses of those perceiving the transgendered person. I respect it is possible for a person born with male sex organs to claim he feels female. I also respect that science would say that feelings aside, that person has the DNA of a male. So asking people to play a game when they don't want to comes down to your rights end where another's begin.

Should society have the right to tell a person born a male that he cannot identify as female? No. Should that person then ask others to call him female, even when another person might sincerely feel that forces him to lie? No. At least that's my feeling.

And so is this: Live your life, leave others alone, and in the process, try to do no harm. If you're minding your own business and not hurting anyone else, then it's no one else's business what you do or what you call yourself. Now when you try to force others to join in using words that other people aren't comfortable using, that's when east meets west and you become tyrannical. Do you have the right to be just about whatever you want to be, gender-wise? Sure. I say be happy and good luck to you. Do you have the right to expect others to accept your choice? There is where the question mark comes in. Shouldn't all other people have the same right to freedom of conscience that transgendered do? If so, shouldn't that freedom extend to deciding for themselves their own interpretation of biology and psychology?  Even if it doesn't match what a transgendered individual thinks about himself or herself? That's what freedom is about, right?

And as Alex said, "them" is plural. "They" is plural. Those are poor word choices for a single person. Confusing, irritating, non-grammatical. And like RC said, so many more important issues exist to worry about. Honestly, there are two sexes, it is a binary issue, and so perhaps someone using he and she is not addressing gender, only biological sex, and gender shouldn't have to be addressed any more than race should. What do you think about that? Making a pronoun match sex, not gender? Seems simple enough and no one should be offended. "My sex is female but my gender is male." OK< good for you. I salute your courage in making that determination. Now leave Mr. Jones there alone if he chooses to differ. If I'm not mistaken, that great trans-phobe Caitlyn Jenner is more or less saying the same thing, right?

Truthfully it's been a long time since I've seen a sillier issue get as much attention as this pronoun thing.

I remember Moore's documentary Columbine, and he pointed out that various countries have less gun violence, with or without a proliferation of firearms. He believes that the reason has to do with fear brought about by mainstream media in news and even reality shows.

I also recall various surveys that reveal that most Americans know very little about their country or the world. In light of that, the military has been conducting several studies because it's been experiencing low recruitment levels and found out that most (77 pct, at least) U.S. youth are not fit to serve and are not even qualified for many careers due to one or more of the ff. problems: obesity, poor health, mental illness, drug abuse, alcoholism, vices like gambling, unwanted pregnancies, low test scores, and criminal records.

Meanwhile, not only authorities but even corporations (via powerful asset management corporations like BlackRock) have been pushing for regulations involving gender and race.

I read that the U.S. faces infrastructure falling apart, high prices, high unemployment mitigated by low-wage jobs, banks falling apart, and now real estate problems. Meanwhile, more are calling to send more military aid to other countries.

They're coming up with more, like xe/xem, ze/zim, sie/hir, etc.

https://www.them.us/story/gender-neutral-pronouns-101-they-them-xe-xem (https://www.them.us/story/gender-neutral-pronouns-101-they-them-xe-xem)

There are a few more here:

https://intercultural.uncg.edu/wp-content/uploads/Neopronouns-Explained-UNCG-Intercultural-Engagement.pdf (https://intercultural.uncg.edu/wp-content/uploads/Neopronouns-Explained-UNCG-Intercultural-Engagement.pdf)

More places are now turning it into law, together with others, and refusing to follow means various penalties, including fines and even jail time.

It might have to do with increasing acceptance of diversity. For example, same-sex marriage in the U.S. rose from 27 pct in 1997 to 70 pct as of 2021:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/350486/record-high-support-same-sex-marriage.aspx

I believe that other related matters, like gender identities, should follow. And with that comes laws and regulations related to them.

In light of other matters, here's one example:

https://twitter.com/JebraFaushay/status/1648441141099122689

Background but another issue:

https://nypost.com/2023/02/26/nyc-teacher-tells-kids-that-nintendo-characters-have-sexual-gender-identities/


For those outside the states, 9th grade students are around 14-15 years old.

(https://i.imgur.com/sxq1nRo.gif) (https://lunapic.com)

https://twitter.com/ClownWorld_/status/1649462650529792002

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/CrazyCapitalCormorant-size_restricted.gif)(https://www.icegif.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/icegif-1096.gif)