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This is something that's been bugging me for several days and I wanted to get your guy's take on it and some suggestions on dealing with it.  My family and I moved into our neighborhood in March and generally find the neighbors to be a little stand-offish (I'd say snooty if I wanted to be judgemental).  This is perfectly alright with me as I have all the friends I need.

On Saturday we were invited to a "Neighborhood Association" meeting down the street.  My wife drags me and the kids to this thing.  This one guy is the big organizer and he runs the meeting - I can tell just looking at him that he's the kind of jerk who minds everyone else's business.

He announces that he and some of the other neighbors have researched a plan to increase all property values in the neighborhood through a beautification project.  According to his "research" what my yard needs is about $5,000 worth of decorative trees and my kids to stop leaving their toys and bicycles in the front and side yard.  Additionally, he pointed out that my neighborood's squirrel problem (that's right, a squirrel problem!!) has been traced to several yards, one of which is mine.  He tells us that eliminating the squirrel problem could prevent future damage to EVERYONE's property (i.e. he wants me to get an exterminator).  He offered these "suggestions" like he was assigning me to bring stuff to a Christmas party.  He also noted that "if you HAVE TO have Christmas lights on your home, white lights are less disruptive to the look of the neighborhood than colored lights."  (We had colored lights).

So in summation, this guy and the "Association" wants me to
1)  Spend $5,000 of MY money to raise EVERYONE'S property value some indeterminate amount.
2)  Tell my children to stop playing in 75% of our yard.
3)  Have a family of totally harmless animals killed.
4)  Temper my celebration of the birth of Jesus.

So what I am looking for from you guys are some good ways to tell this guy to go take a flying f**k at the moon.  Keep in mind that this isn't a condo association and this guy is totally powerless to make me do anything.  A few things I thought of:

"Instead of blowing money on an exterminator, I'm just gonna go pick up a shotgun and a chainsaw and take care of them squirrels by myself."

"I figured I could save a few grand by getting a couple dozen pink flamingoes instead of those cherry blossom trees you suggested."

"Jeez, we just spent a fortune on glowing plastic santas at Walmart's post-Christmas sale...  But we'll only use 'em until the colors start to fade."

I'm going to send him an e-mail this week per his request to "keep him posted on my progress."

Man what a selfish dick! (him...not you!)

I agree that you should just tell him to f**k off and that you'll do as you please but we all know that rudeness to him will only ostracize you further from this so-called "community".

I myself have always been better with the written word over the verbal.
I would write him a long letter listing each request he made of you and then in even greater detail, list the reasons why you will decline.
Write in good style so it makes you feel smarter and better than him and make sure he gets that idea when he reads it.
Hehe!

I'm glad I've got cool neighbors who are totally regular down to earth NORMAL people like you seem to be.
We all would scoff at the very notion of even attending such a "members only club" like this guy arranged.

I am much more polite than they would be of course.
They would simply show up and tell him that he's full of s**t!



Post Edited (01-13-04 05:08)

On a side note after reading your post, I feel you must check out a book I never did get to finish called "The Association" by Bentley Little.
After I racked up nearly $10.00 in library late fees, I returned it only having read about 100 pages or so.

It so much fits what you're dealing with!  Well maybe you won't have to go through the hell that the couple in this book does but it is amusing nonetheless!
Here's a link to what the cover looks like:  

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0451204123.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Here's the synopsis:  

"With this haunting tale, Little proves that he hasn't lost his terrifying touch. Barry and Maureen Welch are thrilled to exchange their chaotic California lifestyle for the idyllic confines of Bonita Vista, a ritzy gated community in the unincorporated fictional town of Corban, Utah. But as Bonita Vista residents, they're required to become members of the neighborhood's Homeowners' Association, a meddling group that uses its authority to spy on neighbors, eradicate pets and dismember anyone who fails to pay association dues and fines. Maureen, an accountant, and Barry, a horror writer who is banned by the association from writing at home, soon find themselves trapped in the kind of deranged world that Barry once believed existed only within the safety of his imagination. The novel's graphic and fantastic finale demonstrates the shortsightedness of the Association and will stick with readers for a long time. Little's deftly drawn characters inhabit a suspicious world laced with just enough sex, violence and Big Brother rhetoric to make this an incredibly credible tale."

Dude, you so need to read this book or even better, buy a copy for that a***ole that asked you to do all that ridiculous stuff!
That'll fix his wagon!
Hehe!

Or...it'll inspire him to do those things that the Association does in that book.
Maybe that isn't such a good idea!
Yikes!



Post Edited (01-13-04 05:42)

this guy sounds like a grade A prick. most people of his species are like that because they have a lot to hide themselves. my recommendation: do an online background investigation, dig up as much dirst as possible, then have a friend of yours dress up like a detective, meet him while he's walking out of work, then hand all the degrading history to him in a ziplock bag and say "nice history." that should send him running to his momma crying!

If your not selling your property then do the opposite of what he is hoping for. You can always change things back to normal later. The most important thing Eirik is that YOU are entertained ! This is a great opportunity.

1) Keep them Christmas light up all year and get those old fashion big bulbs.

2) Start iniviting all the neighborhood kids to play in your yard and remind them to bring all of their toys.

3) Don't rake the yard or do any lawn care. (best example is Dryfuss in Close Encounters)

4) Set up barbeque and a volleyball net in the FRONT yard.

5) Park in the street.

6) At birthdays have pony rides (if possible Elephant rides)

7) Get the kids out of the house and have them build those great tree forts made out of scrap wood.

8) Get a couple large dogs.

9) Instead of using trash cans on the curb just put clear plastic bags on the curb to help feed them squirels

10) Start a part time venture for extra income by becoming a door to door salesman in your neighborhood.

Yep, I've got plenty of experience with this type of person. Every community organization has at least one. They walk all over everybody because everyone else is too polite to tell them to f**k off. They don't want to make trouble, so they allow it to go on. The other excuse might be that this guy is going out of his way to do something that benefits everyone, and you wouldn't want to offend him.

This is bulls**t. Most of the time, these guys will try to dominate anyone else who wants to contribute more than cash or volunteer labour, and ultimately undermine the organization. There is nothing to lose and lots to gain by putting them in their place. And it's so easy, since most of these guys can dish out the BS, but they can't handle it being thrown back at them.

My experience has been that if you publicly challenge, or even humiliate, someone like this, he will either back right down or throw such a fit that everyone will see what an a***ole he is (if they don't already know). He deliberately put you on the spot at this meeting, and you should do the same to him at the next opportunity. Most people who spout nonsense about property values don't have a clue what they're talking about, so ask him for specifics. Question everything you can about his plan, point out everything that simply isn't going to work, and ask him where the hell he gets off telling you what to do with your own property, especially when he brings it up at a public meeting without talking to you first. Tell him, in no uncertain terms, that he should mind his own goddamn business. I guarantee he will tread lightly around you from then on.

You will likely make an enemy of this guy, but he's obviously not that friendly toward you anyway. You will also likely be surprised at how many of your neighbours will admire you for it. Most of them are in the same boat you are. You'll make more friends than you will lose.



Post Edited (01-13-04 15:22)

Rusted car on blocks on the front lawn.
Paint American flags and yellow ribbons on it.
"What'sa matter buddy, you don't like patriotic art?  You against our troops?  What are you, a commie or a terrorits?"

Actually, thank him for his helpful advice, but you would rather have your children play outside, learn about nature (the squirrels) and celebrate your religion.   The enjoyment of life is more important than a few thousand extra dollars.

While in most towns it's very much illegal not to take care of your lawn and to let your house go unpainted, along with various other minor beautification techniques (hey, you gotta have some pride in where you live, and you don't want to get fined by the city either), I recommend finding out what squirrels would think of as catnip, or perhaps some pheremones, and blanketing the guy's yard with it at night.  Once squirrels start trying to make love to his car and his siding, he'll probably leave you alone for a while.

Brother R

I f**king hate neighbors like that.That dude is a f**king snotty prick, and I say you don't have to do s**t to apease some dumbass comformist. If he really wants a beutifiction project on the neighborhood then he should be paying the money for it, not you.
And the squirrel problem is complete bulls**t.So whats next banning pets.
The guy is obviously a secularist.After the christmas lights it will be manger scenes and stars and christmas trees.
Maybe you should paint your house yellow with blue poka dots to just p**s him off.

I would say: "I just moved into the neighborhood in March and I don't plan to sell my house any time soon, so the value of my property today is irrelevent.  However, if I ever decide to sell my house, I will consider making your suggested improvements to increase my property value.  In the meantime, you are more than welcome to pay for an exterminator, buy me a new set of Christmas lights, and decorate my house around December 1."

I would finish it off with, "And if you find this plan unacceptable, you can take a flying f**k to the moon, you dirty arrogant rat bastard.  If my kids weren't watching, I'd rip your balls off, cram them down your rotten throat, and p**s on you while you suffocate."

That's what I would do,

Also:

If they ever make a movie about this, I think that Fred Willard would be perfect in the role of your neighbor.

No offense man, but I would personally tell him to go f#@# his mother, then I'd proceed to beat the living crap outta him with a sock full of door knobs. People like that bring out the Pesci in me. ; )

> Actually, thank him for his helpful advice, but you would rather have your children play outside, learn about nature (the squirrels) and celebrate your religion. The enjoyment of life is more important than a few thousand extra dollars.

This is sooo true. I thank God everyday that my little one made it through her ordeal. I really could use the few extra Thousand though. ; )

this would probably fall under the "vandalism" category (but thats for your lawyers and the DA to decide) but you could write "child molestor" or something similar on his lawn with roundup.  Not my original idea though so i take no credit for this.

Thanks for the suggestions!  I like all of them for their various degrees of subtlety or lack thereof.  Let me say that of course I take care of my yard in a responsible manner.  Ordnances about mowing your lawn are as much about preventing a safe haven for vermin (rats and snakes) as they are about aesthetics.  I will also say that our last place was a townhouse in a condo association where the neighbors had a lot more control over what I did with my property...  but they were all cool about it.  I bent several of the exterior rules and nobody ever said boo about it.

My wife was as aghast at this guy as me and told me to handle it because "you're better at this kind of thing."  I decided to begin with a gently sarcastic approach to this jerk and see how he reacts.  I didn't want to e-mail an angry tirade only for him to forward it around and show everybody how unreasonable I am.  Here's the e-mail I sent him:

Bill-
My wife and I have discussed your this spring's beautification project at length and have come to some decisions on your suggestions to us.
First, we agreed that if our satellite dish can be relocated behind the house without a loss in reception, we would be happy to do so.  I'll investigate possible new locations for the dish and get back to you with my findings.
Second, we have contacted numerous friends and relatives searching for a single anecdote about a squirrel causing damage to a house or other property.  Our research hasn't turned up anything, which calls this alleged threat into question.  Given the lack of evidence, I feel it is premature to condemn the squirrels in my yard to death.  I must also add that any attempt by any neighbor to handle the squirrel problem for us will be met with strong resistance from my son who received a beebee gun for Christmas.
Third, we agreed that cherry blosom trees in our front yard would be a lovely touch.  Unfortunately, we are not budgeted for such a project.  Since you point out that the trees would increase the value of everyone's house, we give our consent to the addition of the trees should someone else assume the cost.
Fourth, we have talked to our children about your suggestion that they leave their toys and bikes in the back yard or garage.  They have shown an strong resistance to this suggestion and I'm afraid they can be very stubborn about this kind of thing.  They have also vetoed your white Christmas tree light suggestion.  I am afraid that children just do not understand the nuances of maintaining high property values.
Have a nice day and please thank your wife again for her hospitality on Saturday.
Eirik&Audrey

Tell him to get a real hobby.  Honestly with his attitude he reminds me alot of my supervisor...which I ignore. Just to spite him you should paint your house pink

HAHAHA!!
Hell yeah Burgo!

Fred Willard is a perfect choice!
(he played Michelle''s dad in American Wedding)

I'd be careful about this part, it could be perceived as a threat.

Eirik wrote:


>   I must also add that any
> attempt by any neighbor to handle the squirrel problem for us
> will be met with strong resistance from my son who received a
> beebee gun for Christmas.

Good letter. It's polite, but with just enough mocking to p**s him off. Personally, I would not have given in on anything, but that's just me.

I'm inclined to think that Bill doesn't understand the nuances of property values much more than your kids. I doubt you'd gain enough from the landscaping to make back the cost of doing it. And unless your place currently looks like Sanford and Son's, I can't see any improvement bringing up values throughout the neighbourhood by any significant amount. This guy is full of baloney.

Forgive me if I seem especially annoyed. I've covered lots of municipal council meetings where selfish, ignorant people have tried to control what others do, for the sake of property values. Whether somebody wants to build affordable housing in a nice part of town, build a pool on his own property, operate a home for the handicapped or run a small home business, the a***oles will be out in full force to defend their "property values" even though the planners and consultants can give a dozen reasons why there will be no significant effect. The arguments from these people usually don't support a lowering of property values so much as they reveal a lot of prejudice and snobbery. It's really disgusting.

On a lighter note, does anybody watch Gilmore Girls? This neighbour of Eirik's reminds me so much of Taylor, it's unbelievable.



Post Edited (01-14-04 12:27)

Uh... I'd be REAL careful how you treat that guy.

Did you ever see the episode of the X-Files about the "perfect neighborhood?" The neighbors were REAL hard on new people to keep their lawns and houses in perfect condition, because the leader of the community had summoned a trash monster to go kill anybody who's house wasn't perfect after dark.

So.... I'd just be careful how you handle the situation.

As for the Squirrils, wouldn't it be funny if you tried feeding them toxic waste, only to make them grow into huge monsters that barfed and crapped all over the neighborhood, like in "Class of Nuke 'em High, part 2?"  That'd teach him.... ^_____________^

Erik -- Your answer was masterful but probably waaayy too subtle for this asshat.  Please let us know if there's any follow-up.

Humor is wasted on some people (you were exactly right, Bernie).  Here's what he wrote back, my comments in brackets:

Mr. [witholding my last name]:
It is with some shock and disapointment that I read your letter [sic - it was an e-mail] of yesterday, January the 13th.  Disappointment because you do not seem interested in being a part of our community here in [neighborhood witheld].  We have a fine community of friends who look out for each other and you are not interested in this.  But most of all shock that you and your wife allow your children to dictate your homeowning decisions.  In my house, my daughter knows who is the boss and does not question my decisions.  It is also very disturbing to learn that your 5 year old son owns a "beebee gun."  I wonder if CPS [that's Virginia's Child Protective Services] would be interested to know about this?  [I hope he reports me because I made that s**t about a beebee gun up]  The [neighborood witheld] Neighborhood Association sincerely hopes that your family reconsders its planned course of inaction ["course of INACTION!"  oooh, he zinged us!].  
Sincerely, [I bet]
William [witholding last name, and I guess I can't call him Bill anymore]
p.s.  A squirrel got inside the roof of our sun room last year and ate through the ceiling!

So did everyone catch the threat about CPS followed up by his hopes that we reconsider?  Who the hell does this guy think he is?  Boss Tweed?  While his threat is as empty as threats can get, it did set me off.  I fired this back to him:

Bill:
My children have directed me to abandon any correspondence concerning the beautification project.  Furthermore, they have threatened to take away my internet priveleges should I continue to contact you, so this will be my last message.  My son has projected the cost of our dish relocation study and found it to be prohibitive.  I am sorry, but the dish stays where it is.  [my daughter] is indicating to me that it is past my bed time.  Gotta go!
Eirik
ps- Why is it you think the squirrels launched that attack on your home?  They seem to like everyone else.

All future e-mails, phone calls, neighborhood association invitations, and doorbell ringings by Bill will be ignored.

>He tells us that eliminating the squirrel problem could prevent future damage to
>EVERYONE's property (i.e. he wants me to get an exterminator). He offered

We live in the suburbs and at any given moment, you can look out the window and see a squirrel running across the fence, climbing a tree or just exploring the yard. I don't think anyone in the enighborhood has ever suffered any damage because of them. The worse they do is dig holes in the yard.

>He also noted that "if you HAVE TO have Christmas lights on your home, white
>lights are less disruptive to the look of the neighborhood than colored lights."
>(We had colored lights).

Good for you! I hate white Christmas lights, there's nothing decorative about them! Whenever I see those plain white lights I always have the urge to sneak back at night and paint them different colors.

>I feel you must check out a book I never did get to finish called "The
>Association"

Sounds like the USA movie The Colony. John Ritter and his family move into a gated community and find out there are too many rules (workers pull up his wife's garden because she planted the wrong kind of plants, the dog has his vocal cord severed to stop his barking etc).

If you're in the mood to do more than just ignore him, a couple gallons of bleach should do wonders for his yard. :>

What a f**king pompus prick that guy is.I can't believe he actually threatned you.What a dick.
But that was a great response you sent back to him Eirik.

This guy is the lowest common denominator.

A goody two shoe who does more harm than good whilst all the while thinking that he is right.
With great clarity I imagine the negative discussions about you and your family that he and his wife have had at the dinner table or while lying in bed together, each with a magazine or book in their hands with the light still on.
Letterman or Leno was probably on their bedroom TV while they were talking about you.
Assuming that a woman has ACTUALLY accepted him as her husband of course!

But the truth is that he is NOT right.
I've had dealings with his type before and there is no real easy way to handle him.
According to him, HE IS ALWAYS RIGHT.  
That's how he sees it.
Tolerance of him is your only choice.
Believe me when I say that you've made an enemy here. (him I mean)
This guy hates everything you represent which from your writing I take to be middle-class working people with children who are somewhat relaxed in your methods of raising your kids. (that is the conclusion I drew from your text...I may be wrong)
What I DO know even without ever meeting you or your wife is that you both know that you're good parents and you'll do how you please and damn him if he doesn't like it.
Am I right?

I look down on ANY man who would even dare make threats that he would call DHS.
Any man who would threaten to upset the balance of and possibly destroy a family even in jest is an insect that deserves to be stepped on....plain & simple.

Even if his assumption was based upon your lie, I believe he seriously took it to be true out of simple ignorance.
(I do not discredit you for that falsehood Eirik...I would've probably made up something like that myself...Hehe!...and who gives a 5 year old a BB gun anyway!?...I have no children and even I know better than that!)

You're dealing with scum...a vile person who thinks he's in the right.
He is arrogant and has illusions of grandeur.
And all in the name of the neighborhood association!
If he lived in old times I'd bet that he'd be in charge of a drumhead trial or a witchhunt!

He obviously has psychological problems if he has made it his hobby or directive to make the best community possible.
While that may be a good thing if done right and by the right person, this man however has taken your words very personally and has issued a threat to involve representatives from DHS to hurt you and your family which to me, indicate a total disregard for you or your family's well being.
It is his method of reprisal which you cannot deny is attempting to hit you below the belt...even if it is an empty threat.

He is a snake in the grass.
 
His needs to be community leader and to make a sort of utopian society within the 1/2 mile radius that he lives in has spiraled into OBSESSION.
Why else would he organize a "community meeting" and spout out directions and orders to his fellow members?
This man NEEDS to have control.
Your e-mail back to him has upset that.
He is angry that he cannot control you or members of your family.
(Yes I watch too much Dr.Phil)

I urge you to be vigilant and consider yourself ABOVE him.
I know I would!
Also congrats to you for sending him that e-mail which basically tells him to f**k off!!

If all else fails we'll send Wyckednick over to CHOKE SLAM HIS ASS!!!
http://ssw.milwaukeewrestling.com/Wickedprofile.htm



Post Edited (01-15-04 07:55)

This is by far one of the funniest posts I have ever read.

Eirik your response to Bill's email was absolutely amazing.  I applaud your smartass skills!

There are few things I hate more than pompous self-righteous for-your-own-good more-in-sorrow-than-in-anger passive-aggressive types (my mother-in-law is one so I know of what I speak).  

As we discussed before, Erik, subtlety, humor, logic, all is lost on them.  All they understand is a very simplistic black or white, with me or against me mindset.  Hopefully it will just stop here.  But if it doesn't, you will probably have to make it clear that if he DARES to try to interfere with your family in any way, you will take any and all legal actions open to you (i.e., suing for slander, harrassment, etc.).

OR you could just invite him over for a friendly night of movies, and show him Larry Buchanan films until his head explodes!  ;- )

Thanks Bernie.  To be honest, I'm not the slightest bit worried about this sock puppet.  Since we don't live in a condo association or chartered community situation, the guy has zero power to compel me to do anything as long as the maintenance of my yard is in compliance with the law (which it always has been and always will be).  The worst he can do is talk me down to all the other neighbors whose opinions I don't care about either...  and if he does that, I suspect their reactions to this will be similar to the people on this site.

Eirik,
I didn't catch if this yo-yo is an elected "official".  If so, I would encourage you or your wife to run against him in the next election.  Better yet, run your son against him if there is no age restriction.

(ASHTHECAT's speech) YAAAAA! Bravo speech sir! Bravo! I'd keep it simple I'd just tell that control prick to p**s off (do it with an english accent that really p**s off people that hate you.)

"p**s OFF! You control prick! My goodness it's time fore a spot o tea. Good day to you sir and p**s OFF!"

(Please accept my apologies if I have offended anyone from the U.K.)

You might also remind him that it is a neighborhood "association," NOT a neighborhood "dictatorship."

Un-freaking-believable. I'm shocked that this jackass has actually said outright that Eirik isn't interested in being a part of of his community, because he doesn't wish to spend $5,000 on a boneheaded scheme or to let one neighbour tell him how to enjoy his own property. What a colossal ego. I had this guy figured for an arrogant busybody, but I've never run across anything like this. I'm not a violent person, but he needs the living s**t kicked out of him.



Post Edited (01-15-04 19:37)

To be honest, if he'd asked nicely that satellite dish would be moved already and I probably would have talked to the kids about toys in the yard (though he must have been saving that one since the summer since there haven't been toys in the yard in a while).  Going to this meeting, I expected a lot of "you watch our kid we'll watch yours", recycling drives, yard sales for charity etc - all things I would have really liked to get my family involved with.  Instead it was all about how can we already-pretty-rich people make ourselves richer...  and of course Adolf Hitler Junior (my new nickname for him) was giving orders, not making constructive suggestions.  I talked to my neighbor today while he was unloading groceries and he said not to worry about it.  Most people blow this guy off and go to the association meetings for the food and to socialize.  Maybe I'll keep showing up just to p**s him off.

Let me ask you people, when you are driving down a street do you look at a house and think "Whats up with that satelite dish" or "Wow those people most be a bunch of slobs.They left there toys in the front yard" or do you drive straight into there living room because you were magically drawn, like a moth, by the multi-colored christmas light on there house.
Most people don't pay attention to a house unless they are specifacly looking for a particular house.The guy is a a***ole and if you need someone to lay the smackdown on his ass, my cost is a 24 pack of MGD.

Eirik, if I were you, I'd make myself a permanent fixture at the meetings.  Get as close as you can to the guy.  Say if it's in some type of fellowship hall get to the chair closest to where the man is standing.  Just look at him and smile.  Keep smiling the entire time.  

Eventually this will drive Adolf insane.  His suicide should be quite satisfying. (Joking....or am I?)

All kidding aside, make sure that everytime you see him you have honey dripping out of your mouth.  Make sure you are sickeningly nice to the guy and it will kill him worse than anything else you could do.

Based on this letter alone. this is my take on this guy



Mr. [witholding my last name]:
It is with some shock and disapointment that I read your letter [sic - it was an e-mail] of yesterday, January the 13th. Disappointment because you do not seem interested in being a part of our community here in [neighborhood witheld]. We have a fine community of friends who look out for each other and you are not interested in this.    (((  I'm afraid to deal with something personally so I'll use peer pressure to get my way)))

But most of all shock that you and your wife allow your children to dictate your homeowning decisions. In my house, my daughter knows who is the boss and does not question my decisions.   (((  "Ha Ha I'm a better parent than you are....  pure monkey turds!!!))))

It is also very disturbing to learn that your 5 year old son owns a "beebee gun." I wonder if CPS [that's Virginia's Child Protective Services] would be interested to know about this?  ((( coward )))

 [I hope he reports me because I made that s**t about a beebee gun up] The [neighborood witheld] Neighborhood Association sincerely hopes that your family reconsders its planned course of inaction ["course of INACTION!" oooh, he zinged us!]. ((( I'm witty  and more intelligent than you .... once a gain pure monkey turds!!!!)


Sincerely, [I bet]
William [witholding last name, and I guess I can't call him Bill anymore]
p.s. A squirrel got inside the roof of our sun room last year and ate through the ceiling!  (((either he's exaggerating... but  I think this really happened and  He thinks your responsible and you should pay.  everything else is  extra crap to give him some degree of credibilty))


I think you got this little jerk in hand and can deal with him by blowing  him and his mindless crap off.

Eirik wrote:
>I probably would have talked to the kids
> about toys in the yard (though he must have been saving that
> one since the summer since there haven't been toys in the yard
> in a while).

He's probably had you pegged as a troublemaker for months (either that or an ignorant boob who needs his helpful guidance). When I read your first message, I could imagine him b***hing about your yard and your kids, and how you're messing up his neighbourhood, long before you ever heard about it. Fortunately, your yard is his business, because you are affecting his property values, or so the popular excuse goes. Grown.

He's a typical big fish in a little pond (albeit a bigger a***ole than most). A self-styled great thinker who can't imagine anyone not loving his ideas, and when somebody doesn't feel like going along (and isn't even impressed), he gets sulky and spiteful. I think the casual, easy-going tone of your initial rejection might have offended him more than outright opposition, since you obviously don't appreciate his genius enough to give his ideas serious consideration. You represent the thoughless, small minded people who are getting in the way of all the other lesser beings benefitting from his leadership. He'll be cutting you up behind your back from now on, but I suspect he's now just a little bit afraid of you, because you could potentially embarrass him, or at least make him look like less of a leader in front of the other neighbours. You are a threat to his delusion. This is the best outcome you could achieve with this nut.

Sorry if I keep ranting. It's a sore spot for me.



Post Edited (01-16-04 11:17)

Eirik-

Your problem, by not necessarily your uniquely funny solution, is repeated every day for some poor soul just trying to live and have a nice, but not perfect, home.

My neighborhood has an "Association" which collects dues and enforces Covenants. The Association decided on its own, without a vote of the neighbors, to prohibit ALL fences unless they surround an in-ground pool. (Talk about SNOBS). The Recorded Covenants allow pools, subject to the approval of the Architectural Control Committee of the Association.

I submitted a plan for a fence and extensive landscaping for approval, received approval in writing, and began my project. The Association claimed they did NOT approve a fence. They thought the straight sections on my diagram were:

1. a plant (that just happened to grow in lengths labeled in linear feet)
2. a property line (and I wanted approval to landscape my neighbors' yards)

They further claim that they did not notice the photo of a fence (because it was included with photos of the plants) or the type, color, or 280 lf listed on the materials list that I submitted with my request for approval.

When their demands (from their attorney who also happens to live in this neighborhood and has billed over $25,000 so far to the Association) were answered with my polite refusal, they filed a lawsuit claiming that I had defrauded them and caused the Association damages (again, the property values argument).

I am representing myself and that further infuriates their legal counsel because she has tried repeatedly to "tattle" to the judge about my "obstreperous" behavior. (Interpretation: Unwillingness to take her BS). Because I have advised her in writing that I will communicate with her only in writing or in the presence of witnesses, she can no longer call me and yell at me. Writing letters takes more of her time and costs the Association more money. (Such a pity)

I love your response to deny and demand proof, because that is what I have been doing for over a year. Of course, they have no proof that fences lower property values, especially the ridiculous claim that they lower OTHER people's property values. They had no right to decide to ban fences in the first place. We have more than one "Bill" (I mean William) in our neighborhood and they "elect" themselves to the Board of the Association.

Maybe, this will help you to laugh at your situation. Everyone, feel free to comment on the jerks in my neighborhood. I need a good laugh.

Carol

Carol wrote:

"they have no proof that fences lower property values"

Carol - I bought a house a little over 2 years ago.  One of the things that attracted me to the house is the fact that it has a tall, wooden fence all the way around the backyard.  I can be as sociable as anyone, but there are times when I want my privacy.  A fence is the best way to get it.

I would pay MORE for a house that had a fence!

I agree. A well-built wooden fence enhances a property. If I bought a house without a fenced yard, I'd build one, and not just because I have dogs and care about their safety. A fence looks good, deters burglars, keeps kids out of your yard, and keeps your neighbours from gawking at you while you barbecue. I can understand having guidelines with regard to the height and style of fences, but I can't imagine anyone prohibiting them.

The only reason I can think of would be that the lack of fences creates the illusion of bigger lots, but I can't see that making much of a difference in price. In any case, I can't stand people who buy a house as an investment to manage, instead of a home to enjoy.

Keep fighting Carol. You're definitely in the right.



Post Edited (02-07-04 19:52)

>Everyone, feel free to comment on the jerks in my neighborhood. I need a good
>laugh.

Do you have kids? Encourage them to play on your neighbor's property and when they complain, tell them that the kids can't tell where one yard ends and the next starts. Maybe make it a point to play Frisbee in your yard and 'accidentally' hit their houses every few minutes. Extra points if the neighbor is trying to take a nap. If you have pets, let them leave a deposit on your neighbors' yards. Finally, make it a point to just walk through their yards whenever possible as if taking a shortcut. Make a big enough nuisance and they'll be the ones demanding a fence between yards. :)

Hi, guys,

Your comments are great. Actually, my house is the 'shortcut' property because there is a 'common area' behind it and kids walk (or ride dirt bikes) through my drive way and formerly, through my yard, to get to the common area.

I do have two daughters, one grown and living in another state ,and one teen. Neither play outside in the neighborhood, but I could start. And, yes, I do have a dog. He would love to play, unrestricted, in the neighborhood. Unfortunately, there are laws against it. Before I installed the fence, he did break a restraint and leave the yard. A neighbor called the police and I was charged with letting my dog run at large. I was acquitted because I did restrain him and he broke the restraint, but this probably gives you an idea of what the neighbors are like.

The lots here are approximately 3/4 acre each and some people do want to pretend that their 'estates' are much larger. I think it's an odd wish because anyone can see how close together the houses are. Why would anyone imagine that the yards overlap into the adjacent houses? Bizarre. The excuse for banning fences altogether (unless you install an in-ground pool) is the preservation of the 'open feel of the neighborhood.' That is such a joke because about 30 of the 100 houses have fences, with or without pools. The excuse for the existing fences without pools is that they were installed before the rules were changed. In other words, these people installed their fences, then changed the rules.

Generally speaking, I am careful not to trespass on other's properties nor pay attention to their business. But, because of this lawsuit, I know everybody's business. Through the legal process of 'discovery,' I am entitled to information about everyone's fence submissions to the Architectural Control Committee. And I get to read the rude comments neighbors write about each other. If this goes to trial, these documents will become public record. That should be fun.

I agree that I would buy a house with a fence, or install one, over a similar house without a fence. I like the privacy, security, and clear boundary of 'where I end and the next guy begins.' If anyone knows where I could find statistics that indicate that fenced properties are MORE desirable, have INCREASED property values, have no effect on the property values of neighboring properties, etc, please tell me.

Thanks again, Carol

Carol-
Your situation is a lot worse than mine.  The word "Covenant" in your post made me shiver, it has such an Old Testament connotation!  When we were shopping for places to live, I specifically instructed my realtor to stay the hell out of any neighborhood that had "community rules," "covenants" and other such ways for people to sidestep the Constitution and infringe on my right to the pursuit of happiness.  Since I am one buyer who deliberately avoided such places, maybe there are others.  Perhaps you could prove that nosy, bossy neighborhood mafias like the one you're entangled with lower property values way more than a lousy fence does.  

If they approved your plan in writing, Carol, then legally speaking I would think (hope) they are screwed.  Probably the only thing they can do is force you to court and hope that legal fees are too steep for you to shoulder - and that's the real reason your choice to represent yourself is p**sing them off so much.  Yes, you moved into a whole neighborhood of Bills, and one of them is even worse, one is a sleaze who's soaking the neighborhood association for personal gain and probably pushing your fence issue as a way to bill more hours.  Good luck and fight dirty, because they're going to.

Let's just hope that she doesn't find a bloody horse head in her bed some morning!

Yikes!

Good lesson from Eirik....if you don't want to get into these situations check things out closely before buying a home.   I personally wouldn't want to live anyplace where my neighbors had a say about anything I did.

Seems really ironic that Carol's neighbours would want to maintain an open feel in a neighbourhood with so little real community.

Also interesting that the houses are so close together. I've noticed a trend around here toward building enormous luxury homes on lots that might be only slightly bigger than average. The result is a bunch of ridiculous mansions crammed together more closely than most small, affordable houses. No side yard, barely a front yard, two sides of the house that can't have windows, and neighbours so close you can practically smell them. They've got to build a big, showy dream house in an upscale neighbourhood, but they obviously can't afford a big enough lot in the nice part of town. And these are just the sort of people who would worry about the toys in somebody's yard lowering their property values. In my mind, they've already messed it up themselves.

Andy,

You are so right about the irony! I'm sure that suing homeowners makes a neighborhood more desirable and raises property values! (She says sarcastically.)

I've never lived in a neighborhood with "Covenants" before and I never will again. When I read them, they seemed reasonable. It's the people who "interpret" and "enforce" them who are unreasonable.

Without a doubt, they intended to intimidate, frustrate and outspend me. While they did, and do, frustrate me, I bounce back. So far, they have outspent me by a LOT, but they have failed to intimidate me. I do worry about the "horse head" scenario. I actually go out into the yard with my dog to make sure no one has thrown any poisoned meat over the fence (the gates are locked).

I wish I had neighbors like you guys. I'm amazed that my neighbors have gotten a letter from this Board raising everyone's dues because of this lawsuit and, to my knowledge, NO ONE has complained. Such sheep. They don't want to get involved, make waves, etc. I guess they won't mind, then, when I win and they have to pay damages to me for bringing this frivilous suit in bad faith.

Enough sour grapes for now, Carol

I recently bought my first house. I live in an older neighborhood and most of the homes aren't in top shape(they're not hovels, they're just all 75+ years old). The people range from the elderly to young families with some young renters here and there. Outside of Neighborhood Watch and a group for beautifying a local park, there are no set neighborhood associations.

We originally intended this as a "starter" home, with the intention of moving into a newer house in a more modern neighborhood when we have the finances. After reading some of the crap you guys have had to endure, I think we'll just stay put for awhile. I admire your restraint and the good humor you've shown in dealing with your wack-job neighbors. Good luck and don't let them drag you down.

>I guess they won't mind, then, when I win and they have to pay damages to me
>for bringing this frivilous suit in bad faith.

Get em! :)