Badmovies.org Forum

I have this movie on VHS, and it RULES!

Being a big Michael Jackson fan, I find it cool to make a movie out of his "Bad" album.

The so-hyped "Smooth Criminal" segment was good, but my favorite is the "Speed Demon" one, with all the fine claymation and celebrity references.


What do you think?

I think he should be in jail.

I'm talking about Michael Jackson as he was in the '80s, not the sad caricature that he has become now.

Odinn's comment and your reply raise an interesting point: how do the mistakes big stars make influence how we judge their PAST accomplishments?

Michael Jackson is a good example.  There is no doubt that he was very popular twenty years ago.  I wonder how many people are listening to Thriller and older stuff with a different ear now compared to how they did in the 80's.

A very brief list of other potential candidates include:  Kobe Bryant, Russell Crowe and Tom Sizemore.  Plus, I've always been a big Eagles fan, but Don Henley's 'trouble' bubbles to the forefront now whenever I hear his voice (I know this is a poor example, but I cannot help what I think when I hear him).

And there is always the Dixie Chicks.  Does one moment of ill-judgement really nullify the quality of their PAST work?

In a way, I think so.  The Hollywood types, and big stars in music and/or sports, do seem to think they can get away with anything.  But, to pose the counterpoint, these people ARE human, and fallable (whether THEY think so or not).

As for Moonwalker, I have no particular opinion.  I did not like Michael Jackson in the 80's and happen to agree with Odinn for the present.

Well, I have both the "Thriller" and "Bad" albums, and I still listen to them on a regulsr basis. I love dancing to the tune of "Smooth Criminal" and "Billie Jean".

The reason why I love Michael is this: he's an 80s icon.

I am a child of the '80s, so I have a fond memory and a predilection for ANYTHING that came from that decade.

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, He-Man, the Thundercats, Roxette, Ronald Reagan, Queen, the Gremlins, the Real Ghostbusters, long hair girls, Robocop, the Terminator, are all OK in my book.

ulthar Wrote:
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> And there is always the Dixie Chicks.  Does one
> moment of ill-judgement really nullify the quality
> of their PAST work?
>

You are presuming there is quality there to be nullified.  (Okay, to be fair, I don't think I've ever actually heard one of their songs.)

For the most part, I've made peace with artists (or athletes) of any sort being terrible human beings.  If you are going to start disqualifying their work because they themselves are complete pieces of , well, you're going to find yourself missing out on a whole lot of good stuff.

Or, it's the art that is important, not the artist.  Something society seems to forget in its idolization of celebrity.

Of course, the two are not really separate.  Two of my favorite science fiction books are ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD, both by Orson Scott Card.  Then, in reading up on Card himself I discovered what an angry bigoted individual he is.  Make no mistake, the man can write with the best of them, but I'll never be able to read his work in the same way again.

Other things just make me sad.  Jeffrey Jones (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000470/) is one of my favorite actors, but he's a pederast.

Let me try to salvage a coherent statement here.  While one can enjoy the art of a disgraced artist, the art itself will always be tainted by their unsavory (and sometimes criminal) actions.  One must take the bad with the good.

Hmmm.  That doesn't seem coherent at all.

I tell you this: "Thriller" and "Bad" makes me forgive MJ for whatever mistakes he has made.

By the way, it's a skin disease. The surgeries were made to prevent his face from falling apart completely. He did NOT want to be white.

You keep telling yourself that....

If you actually watched the Moonwalker segment "Leave Me Alone", you would know that the media always made a circus out of Michael's life, and tried to put their own negative spin on Michael's excentricities.

He never wanted to become white, that's just another thing the media created when he started to get pale during the "Bad" album DUE TO HIS SKIN DISEASE. then he had several surgeries to keep his face from rotting waycompletely, and then the media saw the opportunity and created the whole "becoming white" story.

He's also NOT a pedophile, he cares for children in the same way Mr. Rogers and C.S. Lewis did. If you are gonna accuse Michael then I might as well start accusing Gene Wilder, Paul Reubens, Captain Kanagroo, and whoever is inside the Barney suit.

Mofo has a good point. I must admit, bad personal behavior has tainted some celebs work for me. The degrees vary, of corse, but it is a n annoyance.
Hummm...
Its because, i think, the strength of personality is part of the actors bag of tricks.
Richard Dryfuss, for example. Loved his character in JAWS, can't stand his ranting about anyone who dosen't kiss his political shoes. It doth irritate.
Naturany, it goes both ways, but still, that strong image building ability, that is how they create a character, when its miss used, become a stumbeling block for later work.
Sad, realy...

It is an interesting concept indeed: whether we should judge someone's work/craft by their actions outside of it.

I guess it all depends on who they are and what they do.  People may argue that as public figures they have a responsibility towards the public who will to varying degrees, be affected and influenced by their behaviour.  That's fair enough, but I can't help but not worry about some of it [like I care if a sports star cheated on his wife: if he can play great I don't mind, as long as it's nothing illegal.  Immoral is ok, but illegal... well then it gets tricky!]

For example, the Dixie Chicks: I couldn't give a rats about their music at any stage of their careers, but I don't see why their own personal political opinions should change whether you like their music or not.  On the other hand, if you have an accused/convicted pedophile directing movies which have children running around in their underwear, then you really have to think that it's all kinds of wrong.

Oh and regardless of whether or not he wanted to be white, I couldn't care about Jackson's personal life.  His music is great, sure, but it also doesn't stop me from thinking he's a complete nutter, and it certainly doesn't stop me from laughing at a Michael Jackson 'touches kids' joke.  It may be a sad state of affairs, but as a celebrity you really must be prepared for a backlash in public opinion from certain people: it's that age old mob justice thing I guess, everyone suspects you of being guilty, regardless of whether it's true or not you become guilty to everyone's minds.

plan9superfan Wrote:
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>If
> you are gonna accuse Michael then I might as well
> start accusing Gene Wilder, Paul Reubens, Captain
> Kanagroo, and whoever is inside the Barney suit.

*WE* did not accuse Michael Jackson of anything.  The kids he allegedly assaulted did.  There's a big difference.  And, the evidence was there.  Just because he was not convicted, does not mean he did not do it.  The things that came out during that trial are just simply not "innocent" caring for kids kinds of things.

Personally, you could not give me enough money or ANYTHING to let him within 75 feet of my kids.

"Of course, the two are not really separate. Two of my favorite science fiction books are ENDER'S GAME and SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD, both by Orson Scott Card. Then, in reading up on Card himself I discovered what an angry bigoted individual he is. Make no mistake, the man can write with the best of them, but I'll never be able to read his work in the same way again. "

I've read about him before, but none of the stuff he says irritates me enough for it to really bother me in his writing.  The way Catholicism is in Xenocide is seems ludicrous to me, though.  I dunno if that is relevant, it just bugs me everytime I think about it.  That aside, I haven't liked any of his writing too much except for Ender's Game, which I think is one of the best sci-fi books ever written.  Kind of a hard act to follow.  

I do wonder how people who are so bothered by how authors/other celebrities are in their personal lives deal with historical figures.  Can you simply not appreciate any bit of artwork or whatever not made in the past 100 years or so?  Go back to 1650 or earlier, for example, and everyone thinks that slavery is peechy keen - the idea it was wrong didn't really even EXIST.  A lot of the great Greek thinkers, of which modern European thought owes a great deal, are by modern standards (to say the least) of dubious moral quality.  So are a lot of the people who founded the USA.

I'm good at seperating people's work from their private lives, and such things never really bother me.  I guess I'm just lucky in that regard?  

On a side note, what Russel Crowe has done is ridiculously blown out of proportion.  He's a very... Intense, I guess is the word, guy.  There are other less polite adjectives you could use, but getting in a couple fights and hitting someone with a phone aren't enough to make me dislike someone's entire set of works nor think they aren't worthy of my attentions, or worthy as a human being.  

Jim H Wrote:
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>
> On a side note, what Russel Crowe has done is
> ridiculously blown out of proportion.  

Oh, I agree 100%.  The guy is an incredible actor, too.  I was just using him as an example since my mind was drawing a blank at the moment.

Funny that no one talked about the movie "Moonwalker" thus far...

plan9superfan Wrote:
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Funny that no one talked about the movie
"Moonwalker" thus far...

I've never seen it.
Hell, I don't even know what it's about.

ASHTHECAT Wrote:
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> plan9superfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> Funny that no one talked about the movie
> "Moonwalker" thus far...
>
> I've never seen it.
> Hell, I don't even know what it's about.

I second that motion.  I haven't seen it nor even know about it in any way.  If you didn't mention it was based on Michael Jackson's work, I would have just assumed it was an Apollo 13 type rip off.

But like mentioned in another post: we do kind of drift off topic quite often, but that's usually when there's something interesting to talk about, or we're just being a bunch of silly asses, either way really...

Good topic to bring up.

There are some artists whom I disagree with on some issues, but who I still admire a great deal both as people and as artists. Like Viggo Mortensen.

There are some where I still enjoy their work, but have heard horror stories about their unprofessional behavior. Like Faye Dunaway.

There are people who have been mired in scandal, but I still admire their work. Like Roman Polanski.

There are people who I think are involved in things I disagree with completely, but I still like them a lot. Like Danny Masterson (who's been involved with Scientology since he was a young kid).

Then there are those who just p**s me off so much that I like to pretend that they don't exist.

Going with the 'mistakes famous people make in ther past' topic:

What about those charges that are still pending against Roman Polanski about the supposed sexual misconduct with a minor when compared to the astounding movies he has made? LH-C's point is very valid.

I personally don't give a crap about an artist's personal life. I bet in a million years when they're all dead and gone (and so are we who made a big deal out of it in the first place) and all that's left are the headlines and the art, every one will see the artist for the work they have created, not the petty scandal we blew out of proportion. Michael Jackson was a terrific entertainer and musician and I still love to listen to Thriller, Beat It, Billie Jean, and all of his other work. As for his face or condition, or whatever... big deal. Let him do what he wants to do. So he wants to climb trees and hold an umbrella during the day? Big deal. How does it affect me unless I actively chose to involve myself in their personal life, which will never cross mine, so why should I care.

Remember what Andy Warhol said about celebrities "We live in the cult of celebrities." But also think of it this way: "celebrities are like imperial stormtroopers - no matter how fast you kill 'em off, there's always a clone to take their place." So why should I care about what one person has done with their personal life if someone's already done it dozens of minutes ago. What, except for their art, can they offer to the world in exchange for the media spotlight? Very little. So I'll pay attention to their art and respect them for their creativity in a tangible medium, but no one's going to remember that thing they did that one time a billion years from now. But remember "The Persistence of Memory?" Remember "Annie Hall" and "Manhattan." Remember Richard Pryor's comedy. Remember "The Raven." Remember "Live At Folsom Prison, Vertigo, Pee Wee's Playhouse, Campbell's Soup Cans." Remember the art.

But I also understand that there are intelligent and well-spoken celebrities whose opinions are not based on sensationalism, but rather on a good idea. But look and listen for them. Pick up a book. They're probably not on tv right now.
 

ulthar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And there is always the Dixie Chicks.  Does one
> moment of ill-judgement really nullify the quality
> of their PAST work?


That is quite a contrast in comparison; comparing someone, Michael Jackson, who has certainly led many to believe that accusations against him are not just accusations by the very nature of his eccentric behavior and poor judgement, to the Dixie Chicks, who exercised an activity previously known in this country as free speech, but were crucified by their own industry for speaking their minds.

Of course, the comparison does does also bring up an interesting observation.

The Dixie Chicks had one moment of speaking their minds (which arguably would have been better received today than when it was said) and have been ostracized because of it. Michael Jackson has shown, whether he has been found guilty or not, a propensity of certain untoward behavior with regard to minors, and still, albeit he has suffered in popularity and income, is very much a celebrity.

Myself, I still like hearing hits from Michael Jackson's Thriller days, and Dirty Diana is one of my favorites of his hits. He was a hitmaker in the 80's and paved the way that set the pop music industry, and especially the music video industry, on fire. The Michael Jackson of today is quite a different icon than what he was in the 80's and I wouldn't want to buy one of his albums now; although I might buy a greatest hits CD. (:

Interesting point you bring up Ulthar.

Menard Wrote:
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> He was a hitmaker in the
> 80's and paved the way that set the pop music
> industry, and especially the music video industry,
> on fire.

Yes...and he set his hair on fire for Pepsi too! Oh, the good old days...

Ah, Michael Jackson trying to save the children from the same evil empire that seemed to control the world in "Solarbabies."  I think this movie is great for one reason:  when they are trapped and he transforms into a giant laser and particle cannon shooting robot.  Almost as surprising as Thor! turning out to be an archangel in "Rock 'N' Roll Nightmare."

Andrew, dude...Michael Jackson as a robbot and "Rock 'n' Roll NIghtmare", thanks for giving me two seperate flashbacks to things I'd rather not remember...

1-Haven't seen Solarbabies, but if Joe Pesci's Mr. Big is the bad guy, I sure will!

2-Yeah, that surprised me too when I first saw it. Now I'm used to it, but it's still one of my favorite parts.

You see, Michael Jackson has superpowers. One of them is tuning into a giant robot. Another is turning into a supersonic car. Another is the power to turn into claymation version of celebrities, and have a rabbit suit come alive.

And another one is the power to do the unthinkable: kill ghosts. Because those guys at Club '30s HAD to be ghosts.

I have read that the "Icon of the '80's" is going back into the recording studio to do a new cd. It must be because, after everything that has happened, he needs the money. Still, I wonder, after everything that has happened, how well it will sell.

Joe Pesci was in 'Solar Babies'?!?

LH-C Wrote:
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> Joe Pesci was in 'Solar Babies'?!?
>

Not according to IMDB: Here (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091981/fullcredits) and here (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000582/).

But, we all know IMDB is not perfect.  ;)