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Title: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: loyal1 on August 19, 2006, 11:10:09 PM
Here is an update of the Villain Tribute.   Please select your top 20 (no matter where they fall on the list) and your least favorite 20.  If there is still a villain you still believe is worthy to be added, by all means voice your opinion.  Thanks for all your help with the project thus far!

Undebated List:
Dr Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
HAL (2001: A Space Odyssey)
Frank Booth (Blue Velvet)
Alexander Sebastian (Notorious)
Gregory Anton (Gaslight)
Alex Forrest (Fatal Attraction)
Phantom of the Opera (Lon Chaney)
Mr. Hyde (Fredric March)
Michael Corleone (Godfather II)
Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest)
Diana Christensen (Network)
Keyser Söze (The usual Suspects)
Brett Gordon (The Hustler)
Regina Giddens (The Little Foxes)
Tony Comonte (Scareface)
Eve Harrington (All About Eve)
Annie Wilkes (Misery)
Professor Henry Jarrod (Vincent Price-House of Wax)
Dr. Szell (Marathon Man)
Henry (Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer)
Mrs. Danvers (Rebeca)
Max Cady (Cape Fear-Robert mitchum)
Darth Vader (Empire Strikes Back)
Wicked Witch of the West (Wizard of Oz)
Minnie and Roman Castevet (Rosemary's Baby)


Debated/Questioned:
Norman Bates (Psycho)
Harry Lime (The Third Man)
Phyllis Dietrichson (Double Indemnity)
Lex Luther (Gene Hackman-Superman)
Joan Crawford (Mommie Dearest)
Alex De Large (A Clockwork Orange)
Otto West (A Fish Called Wanda)
General Jack D Ripper (Dr. Strangelove)
Captain Bligh (Mutiny on the Bounty)
Baby Jane Hudson (What Ever Happened to Baby Jane)
Norma Desmond (Sunset Blvd)
ReganMacNeil‘s demons (Exorsist)
Jason Vorhees (Friday the 13th)
Pennywise (It)
Michael Myers (Halloween)
Freddy Kruggar (Nightmare on Elm Street)
Leatherface (Texas Chainsaw Massacre-Gunner Hansen)
Agent Smith (The Matrix)
Count Dracula (Bela Lagosi)
The Alien (Alien)
Jaws
The Terminator
Gill-Man (Creature From the Black Lagoon)

Taken Off List
Carrie White (Carrie)
Lina Lamont (Singing in the Rain)

New Additions: (Mentioned more than once by other’s contributions)
John Ryder (The Hitcher)
Hans Gruber (Die Hard)
John Doe (Se7en)
Antonio Salieri (Amadeus)
Goldfinger
Amon Goeth (Schindler's List)
Colonel Kurtz (Apocalypse Now)
Lars Thorwald (Rear Window)
The Queen (Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs)
Maj. Strasser (Casablanca)
Toht (Raiders of the Lost Ark)
The Joker (Jack Nicholson) (Batman)
Frog One (Fernando Rey) (The French Connection)
Johnny Friendly (On The Waterfront)
Guy Woodhouse (Rosemary’s Baby)
Mrs. Iselin (Angela Lansbury) (The Manchurian Candidate)
Van Dyke (James Mason - North by Northwest)
Cody Jarrett (White Heat)
Count Orlock (Nosferatu - 1922)
Dr. Moreau (Island of Lost Souls 1933)
Harry Reikle (Christopher Plummer) (The Silent Partner)
Rhoda Penmark (The Bad Seed - 1956)
The Devil’s Rejects
Boris Karloff  (Bodysnatcher1943)
Mr. Potter (It's a Wonderful Life)
Jaws (The Spy Who Loved Me)
Lady Sylvia Marsh (Lair of the Whit Worm)
Jerry Dandrige (Fright Night)
Bill. (Kill Bill)
Zed (Pulp Fiction)
The Kurgen from the original Highlander.
Ian MacKellen as Richard III in "Richard III
Tilda Swinton as the White Witch in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Ash on August 20, 2006, 01:02:37 AM
Ming the Merciless!

(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/3548/mingjpgbn9.gif) (http://imageshack.us)
Klytus I'm bored...what plaything can you offer me today?


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: The Burgomaster on August 20, 2006, 07:45:05 AM
You have quite a comprehensive list.  However, I acnnot agree with the following 2 choices:

Carrie White (Carrie)
Regan MacNeil (Exorsist)

I think these characters are victims rather than villains.

What about:

* The mountain men from DELIVERANCE

* The gang of killers from LAST HOUSE ON THE LEFT

* Goldfinger

* "Frog One" from THE FRENCH CONNECTION

* Frank Renda (Al Letteiri) from MR. MAJESTYK

* Christopher Plummer's character in THE SILENT PARTNER

. . . just to name a few.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: ulthar on August 20, 2006, 07:47:11 AM
Just a couple of quick questions:

(1) How is Jaws a 'villian?'  I don't think it had 'evil' intent, or any other intent except eat.

(2) Captain Bligh may not have really been a villain, either.  His behavior aboard ship was no different than any other Capt. of that time.  After court martial, it was the crew that was found guilty of mutiny, and they were hunted down in the South Pacific to be hung.  Even in the Hollywood portrayals of the story, he was not "that bad."  Christian and some of the petty officers were troublemakers, and likely would have mutineed under any captain in those circumstances.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 11:53:52 AM
This list is not final and I am glad there is some argument to some, for it helps with the project.  I too had a problem with the very two you mention interestingly enough...although some disagreed with me.  As for Reghan, it isn't her but the demons who are the true villians, that can easily be changed, but Carrie is different.  We sympathize with her and in the end is was more about justice/revenge and being fed up than being a villian.  She may have to be removed from the list.

Ot of curiousity...in the list you came up with, which villians do you feel are important to add from a cinema historical point of view and which are your personal favs (or both)

Thanks for your help.

~Leila


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 12:05:22 PM
Uthar~

"(1) How is Jaws a 'villian?' I don't think it had 'evil' intent, or any other intent except eat."

You have to admit that Jaws is not like any typical shark.  He is a monster really...and like Count Dracula, or the Blob, or the creature from the black lagoon...it is in their nature so is it really a choice?  Is their nature truly evil if they can't help it?  He was a man eating shark who hunted after his prey...man.  So is a villian what we fear?  Or should it be more complicated than that?  These arguments are great for the project and glad you pointed them out.

""(2) Captain Bligh may not have really been a villain, either. His behavior aboard ship was no different than any other Capt. of that time. After court martial, it was the crew that was found guilty of mutiny, and they were hunted down in the South Pacific to be hung. Even in the Hollywood portrayals of the story, he was not "that bad." Christian and some of the petty officers were troublemakers, and likely would have mutineed under any captain in those circumstances"

You do have a valid point here.  I suppose he is considered a villian (not just by some but even voted one of the best villians of all time in AFI.)  Maybe it is Tyrranical rule.  I really have a tough time believing he did all he did for the good of the men and the ship or even his country.  I believe his motivation was power and superiority.  In Les Miserables, even though the officer followed the law, does not make him a saint.  He had other motives, and an inhuman quality about him where there is no forgiveness or empathy or kindness.  It was black and white.  I feel Captain Bligh is of the same fiber.  I truly don't think Capt Bligh wanted these men hunted down and hung because they broke the law or were guilty of mutiny by their courts, he had another agenda where his pride was hurt and know one messes with him or his rule and if they do, they will most surely pay.  It was personal, just like in Les Miserables.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: ulthar on August 20, 2006, 12:28:26 PM
loyal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  I really have
> a tough time believing he did all he did for the
> good of the men and the ship or even his country.
> I believe his motivation was power and
> superiority.  In Les Miserables, even though the
> officer followed the law, does not make him a
> saint.  He had other motives, and an inhuman
> quality about him where there is no forgiveness or
> empathy or kindness.  It was black and white.  I
> feel Captain Bligh is of the same fiber.  I truly
> don't think Capt Bligh wanted these men hunted
> down and hung because they broke the law or were
> guilty of mutiny by their courts, he had another
> agenda where his pride was hurt and know one
> messes with him or his rule and if they do, they
> will most surely pay.  It was personal, just like
> in Les Miserables.

Um, yes and no, I suppose.  Bligh was motivated by a number of personal factors that stemmed largely from his presence at/role in Cook's death.  In short, he DID feel he had something to prove, and his worth as an officer (Bligh is remembered historically as one of the greatest seaman/navigators to have ever lived) was, in his mind, never fully acknowledged by his peers.

But that does not change the fact that as far as ship Captains go, Bligh was BY FAR not the most tyranical - there were the so-called 'flogging Captains' and those that ruled as "right Tartars."  These Captains did seem to derive a sadistic joy from the ruling, and beating, of others.

If you'd like to see a glimpse into Bligh's character, I suggest the book "Bligh's Portable Nightmare."  It does not deal much with the mutiny itself, but rather with the aftermath (his 4000 nm sail across the Pacific in an open boat) and gives some good insight into who Bligh was.  He had some major insecurities over guilt about Cook and his treatment by the admiralty, but I don't think it was fair to say he took pleasure in belittling others.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 12:39:33 PM
You have me intrigued.  I own Mutiny on the bounty and haven't seen in a couple of years.  Will watch again.  I will most definitly look into the book you recommended...sounds interesting.  On another note, Capt Bligh is one of my favorite characters in film history.  I have nothing bad to say about Charles Laughton's performance, in fact I think he nailed it so finely that it is tough to see anyone else portraying that role.

Capt. Bligh along with Carrie White is now in question on the list of villians.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: ulthar on August 20, 2006, 01:11:25 PM
One more comment:

" I truly
> don't think Capt Bligh wanted these men hunted
> down and hung because they broke the law or were
> guilty of mutiny by their courts, he had another
> agenda where his pride was hurt and know one
> messes with him or his rule and if they do, they
> will most surely pay. It was personal, just like
> in Les Miserables. "

To hunt the mutineers down was not Blight's decision, it was the Law of the day.  Mutiny was a capital crime, and there were no exceptions: if you were found guilty of mutiny (by a Navy court, with a rather strong bias toward the Officers in general) and caught, you were executed.  No appeal, no second chance.

In short, Blight himself could have argued AGAINST the men being hunted and executed, and it would not have mattered.  His personal opinion was immaterial.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 01:21:47 PM
That fact would not have affected the decision in whether or not someone is a villian.  It is the motives, no matter what the law states.  You can follow all the laws, but you may do it to fulfill another purpose.  For example, an exucutioner doing his job and never oversteps the law in the situation, but his true love and passion is not because the law accepts it as so, that is only coincidence.  He could have a sadistic desire of death and to kill.  No exceptions, you broke the law and the law says you die, then he will perform his job with pleasure.  Or someone could be an executioner out of principle and for the good of society as a whole, and sees his job in another light that does not necessarily give him positive gratifaction in death soley for the purpose of death and having control over somene's life...and the ending of it.

To me law means nothing, or the time, or what you are suppose to be...it is the true intentions behind the mask...for Robin Hood broke the law, but considered a hero for his reasons and intentions.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Ed, Ego and Superego on August 20, 2006, 01:54:56 PM
I disagee with Carrie White, definite victim.  The evil popular chick, yes.  My vote for villian is:
Dr. Christian 'The White Angel' Szell - Marathon Man
"Is it zafe?"
0-d


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 01:57:23 PM
Oh the thought makes me clench my teeth together...man that was brutal.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Derf on August 20, 2006, 02:05:16 PM
A couple I would add:

Rhoda Penmark (The Bad Seed - 1956 version w/Oscar-nominated performance by Patricia McCormack)

The Boys' Choir (or maybe almost everybody in The Lord of the Flies - 1963)

These are two of the most frightening films I recall from my youth.

I would also add (for some of the more fun villains):

Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg (The Fifth Element)

Jareth the Goblin King (Labyrinth)

Evil Genius (Time Bandits)


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: ulthar on August 20, 2006, 02:17:07 PM
I don't think Bligh himself was part of the group that hunted down the mutineers.  After the courts martial, he was assigned a governorship in Australia, iirc.

The central question is "was Bligh a villain?"  In my mind, he was not, but I certainly see that Hollywood has portrayed him that way.  Bligh gained notoriety because his crew mutineed, but he was not the only ship's commander to have a mutiny.  In some of those cases, the commander was FAR more a villian than Bligh; indeed, in many cases where there was no mutiny, the commander was FAR more villainous than Bligh.

His infamy, and the subsequent Hollywood fixation with him as a 'villian' is somewhat of a historical mystery.  If you do choose to classify him a villian, he must at least be given the status of "sympathetic villian," since much of his circumstance was beyond his control (for example, he really had nothing to do with Cook's death - Cook was killed by cannibals in Fiji - but Bligh felt he should have done more; this guilt perhaps led him to be a harsher commander than he otherwise would have been, but there is no historical record supporting that the real William Bligh was a "villain").  The REAL villain on HMAV Bounty was one of the warrant officers who really did relish the idea of hurting those around him (I cannot recall which, possibly John Fryer?), as he instigated a lot of the ill-will between Christian and Bligh and purposefully provoked Bligh on many occasions.

We note that Bligh's flogging rate was substantially BELOW average for the British Fleet at that time and in some cases was known to flog deserters when the law supported execution.  In this, he had the reputation of being an LENIENT commander, not a tyrant.  Bligh was vocally critical of the men (and officers), but verbal harranguing was not uncommon, either.

Couple of interesting sites:

http://www.lareau.org/bounty.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fletcher_Christian (where we note that much of the malignity of Bligh's character is attributed to one of Christian's relatives).

At the very least, it is an interesting debate.  Just what defines a 'villain'?  In my view, you've hit upon the perfect case-study for this question.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: loyal1 on August 20, 2006, 02:50:06 PM
As in the case of Captain Bligh, you have a lot more knowledge than I on the character and the man himself.  I know little of him than what I have seen portrayed on the silver screen, and my judgement mainly from that and that alone.

However the question of what classifies a villian is very interesting.  Should we classify types of villians?  Can villian's have sympathy or must they be purely and inherantly evil?  We can take Batman villians for instance.  It seems that most if not all were very human and we could understand what turned them to spite and vengence.  I do like a villian that is more complex...like Dr. Hannibal Lecter.  As evil and sadistic as he can be, there is another side to him that we are very much attracted to. I am sure I would not be saying that if he was eating my brains from my skull, but I think you understand what I mean.

Then we have the other argument of monsters that were created.  For instance I have a hard time with Frankenstein being the true villian, I would rather blame his creator.  Or what of those monsters just born that way?  The blob and Jaws and the Gill-Man are not very complex.  

You definitly have my thinking cap on with this Uthar lol.

Thanks for your input, well more, intelligent contribution.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Shadowphile on August 21, 2006, 12:35:45 AM
To qualify as a villian, in my opinion, there is a requirement for intelligent choice.  The shark in Jaws, the alien in Alien, these are not villians.  They are antagonists.  There is no deliberate choice to be evil.  Their actions come from instinct, not desire.  The Terminator, even though he's the bad guy, isn't a villian.  He doesn't have the emotional capability to be a villian.

Hannibal Lecter is an awesome villian.  Brilliant, fully aware that what he does is wrong.  He doesn't care.  

Darkness from Legend is a good villian.  Physically powerful, magically adept, he tries to extinguish the sun.  Now that's the kind ot thing a villian does.

Slasher villians aren't worthy to be on this list.  Schlock horror doesn't have a villian, it has a body count.  Nobody cares while Jason/Freddy/Michael/Chucky  is on his killing spree.  The audience is more interested in the cheesy one liners (if the bad guy even talks) and the inventiveness of the murder.

Even movies like Twister, Volcano, The Blair Witch Project, The Grudge and Dark Water have no real villians.  Forces of nature, be they actual nature or the undead lack the decision making power required to join the list.

Really good villians are few and far between.  To pick the top ten would require a lot of thought....


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Neville on August 21, 2006, 05:19:04 AM
I'll add to the list Hans Grüber (Alan Rickman) from the first "Die Hard". He's ruthless, he's a criminal mastermind and he has style. The moents where he pretends to be an hostage to fool Bruce Willis are pure genious.

On Blight, I think we are messing things here. The real Blight probably wasn't much different from other British captains of the time, and as some have mentioned, the rules and laws concerning discipline and punishments in navy ships were so dtrict there was not much a captain could do to be benevolent. If you remember "Master & Commander", Russel Crowe is suppossed to be a benevolent commander, but when he sees a fault of discipline he has no choice but to have the man whipped.

On fiction, however, Blight is a villain. As simple as that. Most movies depict him as a man full of insegureties that tries to overcome them by being overzelous in his everyday command. Not only that, he is also prone to blinding wrath attacks, under which he often takes critical decisions.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Dr. Whom on August 21, 2006, 06:25:21 AM
Perhaps not strictly cinema, but I always had a soft spot for Supreme Commander Servalan of Blake's 7 fame.

However, if villainous laughter is a criterium, it has to be Count Zarth Arn!


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Fearless Freep on August 21, 2006, 08:41:15 AM

I'll add to the list Hans Grüber (Alan Rickman) from the first "Die Hard". He's ruthless, he's a criminal mastermind and he has style. The moents where he pretends to be an hostage to fool Bruce Willis are pure genious.


"You asked for a miracle, I give you the F.B.I"


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: RCMerchant on August 21, 2006, 04:56:06 PM
Peter Lorre as Dr. Gogol in MAD LOVE (1935)
Leslie Banks as Count Zaroff in the MOST DANGEROUS GAME(1932)
Bela Lugosi as Ygor in the SON OF FRANKENSTIEN(1939)
Rudolf Klien Rogge as Dr.MABUSE (192?)
the DEVIL'S REJECTS!!!!
GOLDFINGER
the whole looney family in the TEXAS CHAINSAW MASSACRE
GHIDRAH,the 3 HEADED MONSTER!!!
NOSFERATU(1922)
Bela Lugosi (again) as the berserk Dr.Vollin in The RAVEN(1934)"YES! I LIKE TO TORTURE!!!"
Boris Karloff as the BODYSNATCHER(1943)
Vincent Price asthe ABONIBLE DR.PHIBES
The house in theHAUNTING (original version)
I forget the charecter's name-the devil worshipper in CURSE of the DEMON


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: peter johnson on August 21, 2006, 11:35:30 PM
What a wonderful post!
We ARE an intelligent bunch here, wot?
A note or 2:
     I think it's important to distinguish between Captain Bligh the HISTORIC figure and Capt. Blight the CINEMATIC figure -- and surely one has little to do with the other.  All the Blighs have been good Blighs in cinema, though I do have a soft spot for Laughton as well --  
     Robert Mitchum's Preacher in Charles Laughton's "Night of The Hunter" (Speaking of Laughton) I think is/was every bit as rotten and hideous as Mitchum's Max Cady -- even more so in some ways.
     I like a lot of the suggested names here, and some have given me a YUCK! reaction just thinking of them -- Auric Goldfinger:  "I don't mean for you to talk, Mr. Bond, I mean for you to die!" --
     BUT nobody's mentioned one of -- to me -- the worst wicked individual in a starring role:
Lionel Barrymore as Mr. Potter in "It's a Wonderful Life" -- talk about someone who takes pleasure in watching the innocent suffer for its own sake!!  Potter has all the money in the world, yet takes time out to try to slowly crush the lives of the weak and goodly around him, simply because he can:  "You called me a warped, frustrated old man!", and on the basis of this slight, Potter seizes on an opportunity to bring down as many people as he can in an act of unmitigated evil.  Bastard . . .
     Charles Gray's character in "The Devil Rides Out" -- "Something will come.  I may not return, but Something will come . . ."
     And, oh, I'd take Baby Jane, Eve Harrington, Norma Desmond and Gill-man right off the list:  These all qualify as poor, twisted individuals who could no longer distinguish between light and shadow, or were simply acting as God intended in their envirionment -- on that note, I'd take Norman Bates off as well -- otherwise, why not include Peter Lorre's child-rapist/killer in "M"?  Because of Lorre's impassioned speech at the end?  Norman can't make such a speech because he wouldn't hurt a fly . . .
peter johnson/denny crane


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: RCMerchant on August 22, 2006, 04:39:23 PM
For obscure BadMovie fans...
the Crimson Executioner! from the BLOODY PIT of HORROR
Dr. Orloff and Morpho from Jess Franco flicks!
Miss Togar-ROCK and ROLL HIGH SCHOOL
the cock-eyed Space Monster from FRANKENSTIEN meets the SPACE MONSTER
Russ Tamblyn in SATAN'S SADISTS!!!
the little fey Chinese guy with glasses in all those Bruce Lee movies.
Lord Zedd...the MIGHTY MORPHIN POWER RANGERS!


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 24, 2006, 07:35:20 PM
My favorite type of character. I usually like them even better than the hero. I'll add my thoughts to this tribute, as I think of them.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 24, 2006, 07:58:12 PM
And I just thought of them.

Here is a Jaws that should be included. Jaws, as played by Richard Kiel, in "The Spy Who Loved Me," and who was so popular, that he was brought back to appear in "Moonraker."

While I agree with Shadowphile, that most slasher villains are not worthy of inclusion, here are two, at least, in their original film roles. Robert Englund as Freddie Kreuger in "Nightmare on Elm Street" and Tony Moran as Michael Myers in "Halloween."

And while I am thinking about them, here are two more. Amanda Donohoe, who as Lady Sylvia Marsh, in "Lair of the Whit Worm" went through anybody and everybody--the country copper, the local lord, the village virgin, and even a homely boy scout--to keep her white wyrm/worm/snake fat and happy. And who did it with intelligence and wit. And--man--was she ever hot looking!

The closest male equivalent would by Chris Sarandon, as Jerry Dandrige, who in "Fright Night" who showed no compunction about who he would put the bite on and/or kill. And when his civilized veneer was stripped away, and he was seen for what he really was, man--was he vicious.

Now, let me go home and think about--for a day or two--some more who should be included.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Zapranoth on August 24, 2006, 08:31:55 PM
I would have to add:

1.  Bill.   ("Kill Bill")
2.  Zed ("Pulp Fiction")

and

3.  How did he not get mentioned yet?

ALL KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: peter johnson on August 24, 2006, 11:33:41 PM
My villian can beat up your villian!
Mr. Potter would sneer at Freddy Kreuger, laugh at Michael Myers (Don't we all?) and foreclose on Ming the Merciless's castle in space --
He may be impressed enough by Richard "Jaws" Kiel to offer him a job, but would crush him if he refused. (Good villian, though -- hadn't thought of him --)
peter johnson/denny crane


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: Shadowphile on August 25, 2006, 10:07:21 AM
And of course we can't forget The Kurgen from the original Highlander.  Now there was a villian who revelled in slaughter.  Evil to the core and yet still able to salute his opponent when they are fighting to the death.


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 26, 2006, 11:53:18 AM
Femme fatales are just not physically violent enough for me, but most people would list at least once. Such as Barbara Stanwyck in "Double Ideminity." But, if I would go with one, I'd substitute Gene Tierney as Ellen Berent Harland in "Leave Her to Heaven." There is a woman who would let no one and nothing get between her and her man. Not his crippled younger brother, not the baby she was carrying, not even her younger sister.

But, if you want to restrict the number to ten, then you need the most vicious, most nastiest, most malicious, most coldbloodiest villains and villainesses out there. Here are my magnificent seven. And I apologize to everyone if some of these have arleady been listed.

Richard Boone as Frank Usher in "The Tall T." Anybody that would countenance the murder of a child . . .?

Henry Fonda as Frank in "Once Upon a Time in the West." A most memorable villain played by a memorable actor, especially as he didn't usually play villains. And what is it about the name of Frank?

Ian MacKellen as Richard III in "Richard III." He not only had no respect for his enemies, he had no respect for his friends.

His female equivalent would be Tilda Swinton as the White Witch in "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe."

Vincent Price as Matthew Hopkins in "The Witchfinder General."

Oliver Reed as Bill Sikes in "Oliver"

And as a group . . .
Joan Collins as Jeanne Clayton
Ian Hendry as Carl Maitland
Robin Phillips as James Elliott
Richard Greene as Ralph Jason
Nigel Patrick as Major William Rogers
in "Tales from the Crypt."


Title: Re: Villian Tribute...
Post by: peter johnson on August 26, 2006, 10:44:18 PM
Ooohhh!  . . .
Tasty!  Hadn't even THOUGHT of a lot of these, Mr. Boyskout -- Good going.
Yes, Richard the 3rd -- Really, Shakespeare did some sorry individuals, but for one with no redeeming features whatever, you'd  be hard-pressed to come up with an equivalent -- Even Lady MacBeth was driven mad by remorse.  Caliban was more schemed upon than scheming, and even Iago felt compelled to explain himself and was prey to human emotion.  Not our Dickie Boy!!
peter johnson/denny crane


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: ulthar on August 27, 2006, 07:02:20 AM
Here are some of my "Top" picks bases on your new list (in no order):

1. Jerry Dandridge
2. Mr. Potter
3. John Doe
4. John Ryder
5. Nurse Ratchett
6. Colonel Kurtz
7. Hannibal Lector
8. HAL
9. Darth Vader (A New Hope)
10. Goldfinger

I'll leave the rest of the top list open to allow for the fact that I have not seen (or don't remember if seen when I was little) many of the older classics you mentioned.  (Yes, I am trying to remedy that).

Take off the List (imo):

1. Darth Vader (Empire Strikes Back)

Why?  In my opinion, Vader was mysterious and very powerful in ANH.  About all we knew about his was that he killed Luke's father, has some 'magic' and was a traitor to his friends.  This relative lack of back-story allowed us to fill in any blanks in how far he would go with our imaginations.  But as I think about it, maybe Tarkin is the REAL villian of ANH.

I know I'm in the minority on this, but I thought Vader got thoroughly watered down in later installments.  Sure, he killed a lot of commanders in ESB, but there SEEMS to be more to being a good movie 'villain' than just killing; after all, we don't have ever week's guest star from "Law and Order" on the list.  This whole business with Vader being Luke's father was a cheap stunt, imo.  I've never liked that aspect of the SW universe, and thought Vader was scarier in ANH.

Have at it, ESB fans.


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: Neville on August 27, 2006, 08:00:38 AM
I'll add tow TV villains:

1) Nina Myers from "24". SHe kills and betrays everybody, but what I found disturbing about her is her lack of empathy for her victims, or that she is not a psycho, just cold-blooded when it comes to murder.

2) Scorpius from "Farscape". There's many villains out there, but his methods are unique. Not every villain captures the hero and implants a clone of himslef in his mind.


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: RCMerchant on August 27, 2006, 08:09:59 AM
HEY HO LETS GO!
1.Mr.Hyde-Totally evil dirt bag.
2.Frank Booth-Watching him made me wanna kill him.
3.Henrey-though,to tell you the truth,Otis disgusted me much,MUCH, more.
4.Max Cady-I thought DeNiro did a bang up job as well.
5.Wicked Witch of the West-Iv'e hated this b***h since I was a kid.
6.Reagan's demons-They're demons! Nuff sed.
7.Termenator-no soul. no emotion. a robot.
8.Mike Meyers-I saw this guy,in Halloween,ON Halloween, in '79.It was a trip.
9.Freddy-the first one is the only one,in my book.A child killer! How low can you go?
10.ALIEN
11.this is a lotta dam typing! Nosferatu! BAD MAN! BAAAAD!
12.Scarface-I hate junkies.
13.Dr.Szell-I also hate dentists.
14.Alex de Large-I didn't feel one bit sorry when he got what was coming to him.
15.Karloff in the Body Snatcher-HE KILLED BELA! YOU BASTERD!!
16.Zed-not Lord Zed...the scumbag in Pulp Fiction.I like Lord Zedd,actually.Don't YOU wanna kill the Power Rangers?
17.Mr.Potter-What kinda dirtball would treat Jimmy Stewart like that? He's JIMMY STEWART,fer
Pete's sake!Gosh darn it! It's...It,s just not right! DARN IT!
18.I have to include Peter Lorre as Dr. Gogol in MAD LOVE.I know he was'nt on the list,but a list of vllians without Lorre is like Captain Crunch without milk.
19.DRACULA-LUGOSI(Iwould also include his portrayal of M. Legendre in White Zombie....a totally evil charecter,along with Dr.Vollin in the Raven,one of Bela's most over the top,insane,parts EVER.
20.Leatherface-and the rest of his loony toon clan.

People I WOULD'T include...
1.the Phantom of the Opera-love can drive a man mad.I felt sorry for the guy.
2.the Creature -Hey...he was minding his own buisness...and people got in his face.
3.Baby Jane-She was insane...Hollywood used her and dumped her.Look at Willis! And his sister!
4.Col.Kurtz-War blew his mind.
6.Jaws-He's a shark.He eats.Thats what he does.(I guess you could say that about Jeffery Dhmer too....)
7.Norman-Norman never killed anybody,his mother did.
8.HAL-I actually felt more empathy for HAL than I did for any of the wooden astronauts.He was the only charecter in the film that I enjoyed. 2001 was quite overrated,unless your'e on acid.
9.Jaws-the Bond Jaws-he ended being a good guy.And how can you not like the guy from EAGGHH!!
10.Darth Vader-yes he is a bad guy.I just don't like Star Wars. ANY of them.I guess I'm the odd man out on this.
11.Kahn-same reason...I just don't like Star Trek.The only guy I like from Trek was Shatner.I dunno...I just don't lke space operas.Though I DID enjoy Planet of the Vampires.Go figure.
Maybe it was the cool black leather space suits.
12.I'm going waaay out onna limb here,but I think Dr.Frankenstien should be included on the villan list.Karloffs monster was a totally sympathetic portrayal,yet Peter Cushing was a real heartless son of a b*tch. Vincent Price in House of Wax was also wronged...drove mad but evil done to him. On the villan list,I would also include the house from the Haunting (the book is SO much scarier than either movie,though Robert Wise's film outshines the remake by miles) and the hotel in the Shining. I'm not surprized that Godzilla didn't make the list.Who does't wanna stomp tokyo?(Oops! I wasn't trying to reference another board! Really!)
Well...I gotta run to the store and get some eggs,cuz my kids are awake...and hungry. I like left over pizza and tater chips for breakfast...but they like eggs,toast,and fried taters.Go figger.


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: loyal1 on August 27, 2006, 10:58:19 AM
Sorry but this list is only for film...if I included TV there would be way too much to add here.  Film is hard enough and I am sure we are missing many quality performances.


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: loyal1 on August 27, 2006, 11:23:17 AM
Here is my top 20 in no particular order (from films I have seen and can only judge from)

1. Dr Hannibal Lecter (Silence of the Lambs)
2. HAL (2001: A Space Odyssey)
3. Antonio Salieri (Amadeus)
4. Nurse Ratched (One Flew Over the Cukoos Nest)
5. Diana Christensen (Network)
6. Mr. Potter (It's a Wonderful Life)
7. Goldfinger
8. Regina Giddens (The Little Foxes)
9. Eve Harrington (All About Eve)
10. Annie Wilkes (Misery)
11. Amon Goeth (Schindler's List)
12. Dr. Szell (Marathon Man)
13. Wicked Witch of the West (Wizard of Oz)
14. Mrs. Danvers (Rebeca)
15. Max Cady (Cape Fear-Robert mitchum)
16. The Queen (Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs)
17. John Ryder (The Hitcher)
18. Hans Gruber (Die Hard)
19. Alex De Large (A Clockwork Orange)
20. Michael Myers (Halloween)


Title: Re: Villain Tribute...(Update)
Post by: peter johnson on August 29, 2006, 12:22:56 AM
Yes!  Yes!
The Hammer Dr. Frankenstein as portrayed by Cushing!!  
Cared only for himself and "the work", all other people were either useful or not -- Yes, a monomaniacal S.O.B. -- Very different from the Dr. F's in Universal, who felt pangs and moral anguish.  Cushing is only upset if things don't go his way -- a true monster.
peter johnson/denny crane