Badmovies.org Forum

Yes, I have been sending posts to this board about the plausibility and reality flaws in films.  Today, I decided to take a break from tearing films up and talk about reality and plausibility flaws in television cartoons.  Yes, I know you're all thinking "Wyre would have a heart attack tearing up tv cartoons."  But I'm not doing them all.  I'm doing only 1.  And that cartoon is everyone's favorite cowardly, greedy talking dog.  Yep Scooby Doo!  "Scooby-dooby-doo.  Where are you?  We got some work to do now.  Scooby-dooby-doo.  Where are you?  We need some help from you now.  C'mon, Scooby-Doo.  I see you, pretending you got a sliver.  You're not fooling me.  Cause I can see the way you shake and shiver.  You know we got a mystery to solve, so Scooby-Doo be ready for your act.  Don't hold back.  And Scooby-Doo if you come through you're gonna have yourself a Scooby Snack.  That's a fact.  Scooby-dooby-doo, here are you.  You're ready and you're willin',  If we can count on you, Scooby-Doo, I know we'll catch that villain."

Now what reality flaw does Scooby Doo have?  Is it the fact it has a talking dog?  No, there have been real dogs that have been able to some degree mimic human speech.  One I've seen do it in a form of howling rather than growling like the Scoobmeister.  Is it the fact Shaggy, Scooby's handler eats some rather odd and unsavory foods like chocolate-covered pepperoni pizza?  No, I've seen people eat stranger things than that, like scorpions, centipedes, tree grubs and even poisonous snakes.  Is it the fact that Shaggy eats the very Scooby Snacks that Scooby eats?  No because I know that somewhere in NYC, there's a bakery that bakes pastries which are edible to both humans and dogs.  All of those are plausible.  So what is the biggest problem with Scooby Doo?

I swear, the Scooby gang always encounter the dumbest most stupidest criminals.  These morons belong on America's Dumbest Criminals.  These criminals always seem to exploit locals legends and disguise themselves as ghosts or monsters to scare people away from their criminal activities.  In reality, this wouldn't scare most people away, but rather intrigue them.  These stupid criminals by their lame attempt to discourange attention would be rather drawing a lot of attention to them.  People these days are more intrigued by ghostly activity rather than scared away.  I personally have never read of any real criminal case where the defendant(s) tried to cover their criminal activity by creating fake ghostly activity.  If real criminals did this, then the job of the police would be a lot easier.  

Of all the times Scooby and Company encountered fake ghost or monster activity, there was only 1 time where they weren't fake, they were very real.  It happened on Scooby Doo on Zombie Island.  If you ask me, that was the best Scooby Doo ever filmed.

Actually, there are quite a few Scooby movies and spinoffs incorporating real ghosts. What I don't get is how people over the age of 4 were fooled by such cheesy costumes, or better, why they didn't find some silver bullets to use on said "monsters".

Well since the ideal audience for Scooby Doo is four year olds and potheads, plausibility doesn't really figure into it.

All the old good arguments have been made all over the net, in every comic shop fanboy gathering, and at pot parties. But my favorite is: there are five of you, bumrush the guy in the "ghost" suit instead of building an overly complicated trap dependent on a cowardly slacker/wannabe beatnik/stoner burnout and a brain damaged lisping dog to be effective.

Although I want a house with one of those magic hallways that allowed the running highjinxs to ensue when the chase happened in most episodes. Maybe with a listen to that generic Hanna-Barbera kiddie pop music they played during those chases.

Another cute thing about Scooby-Doo is those Rube Goldberg inspired traps that Freddy always builds and rarely works.

What I don't get is why people assumed the Scooby snacks were made with pot.  You've got two slackers who don't want to get off their butts, and to motivate them, you give them pot brownies?  Yeah, right.  The Scooby snacks needed to have some amphetamines in them.

I have to be honest here, I HATED Scooby Doo. Second only to the Flintstones of All- time Most Hated cartoons on my list. Scrappy-Doo didn't help it much...

I am not a big fan of Scooby either....unfortunaly my son absolutly worships the show. So I have to sit and suffer through movies and tv and games and anything else you can imagine.

Ah, yes -- Don Messick -- Would that we could have his career . . .
Scooby Doo is without doubt the dimmest, dumbest piece of bad Korean animated *censored* ever to be shown on TV --
Why why why it enjoys popularity on any level has always eluded me.
It simply reeks.   Why bother picking holes in it, when it simply sucks across the board, per se?
* * *
Here's a new topic:  Hey!  Them toilet paper commercials sure is dumb, eh?  That ain't really real,  what they do on the TV there . . .
peter  . . . oh, I give up . . .

I liked it when I was little but the arrival of Scrappy-Doo was the beginning point for when I realized how awful it was. Then I grew sick of the various incarnations rerun over and over and  the inclusion of Scooby-Dum in the opening of one permutation of the show when he was in only a few episodes. The celebrities guests during part of the run, Batman and Robin made sense to a kid, Sonny and Cher I knew who they were, Mama Cass drew a blank in my young mind, but even I knew (from my father who was a fan of their old films and shorts) that Laurel and Hardy were long dead. The gang never learning from their mistakes, the sameness of the plots, Velma never buying a headstrap for her stupid glasses, yadda yadda yadda....

The Flintstones? They much better the first time around when they were called The Honeymooners! But I'm a weirdo who doesn't even like The Honeymooners all that much.

The utter cheesiness of Scooby Do is what I like.
Scrappy, however, is just lame.

Just Plain Horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to be honest here, I HATED Scooby Doo.
> Second only to the Flintstones of All- time Most
> Hated cartoons on my list. Scrappy-Doo didn't help
> it much...

"Tata-ta-tada!!!  Puppy Power!!!"  Scrappy Doo made me laugh because he always seemed to be in denial of his uncle Scooby's cowardice.

What was the name of that grey dog?  It was Scooby's cousin or something.

That was Scooby-Dum. He was Scooby Doo's Billy Carter.

WyreWizard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "Tata-ta-tada!!!  Puppy Power!!!"  Scrappy Doo
> made me laugh because he always seemed to be in
> denial of his uncle Scooby's cowardice.

Scrappy also suffered from what I call "short man's syndrome", which is basically the need to compensate in attitude and agression what he lacks in stature... I think everyone was in denial that Scooby had an unbearable speech impediment.

(How can I hate the Flintstones? 'Cause they suck. I think of them as an animated version of The Honeymooners)

Just Plain Horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Scrappy also suffered from what I call "short
> man's syndrome", which is basically the need to
> compensate in attitude and agression what he lacks
> in stature...

Actually, I think you were referring to the Napoleon Complex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_complex)

Who's the bigger coward- Scooby or Jabber Jaw?

You know, this discussion just highlights how LAME modern Saturday mornings are.  My daughter is four and just does not have the Saturday morning mindnumbing I had growing up.

Jabber Jaw?  I am ALMOST ashamed to admit I actually remember that one.  Who remembers the one with Ruth Buzzi and Jim Nabors as robots: "The Lost Saucer."  Scooby was Skakespeare compared to *that* drek (but I still watched it....so what does THAT mean).

Yes, lame is Lame is Lam-eh!!
Modern cartoons in the "middle period", which I'm arbitrarily referring to as the mid-70's to 90's, cannot compete with the aritistry or humour of the the Warner Brothers cartoons from the '40's/'50's/'60's not because of sheer economics alone, -- re. the artists could afford to finance the drawing of multiple single frames to create fluidity, etc.,--  but that the overweening culture of the time was more educated than we are now, and everyone knew basic shared curltural constructs of Art, History, Science, etc. -- Therefore, certain jokes, japes, puns, etc., would and could be universally shared from a shared knowledge base, despite whatever the educational background or even the intelligence of the viewer was.
There is no such thing today --
You make a reference to WW2, and if your conversant companion is young, he or she may think it took place in the 1950's or later, or even the '30's.  They can't name a single social issue of the day, nor are they aware of the science/technology of the time.
Bugs Bunny, aside from the racism, violence and stupid slapstick and puns, was funny because it tapped a shared social ouvre.  South Park is the closest thing I can think of today, and even Trey Parker eagerly agrees that the animation is 5th-rate on that.
I'm going off to chew buffalo jerky and whine in my mud hut . . .
peter urgh/denny caveman

ulthar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You know, this discussion just highlights how LAME
> modern Saturday mornings are.  My daughter is four
> and just does not have the Saturday morning
> mindnumbing I had growing up.
>
> Jabber Jaw?  I am ALMOST ashamed to admit I
> actually remember that one.  Who remembers the one
> with Ruth Buzzi and Jim Nabors as robots: "The
> Lost Saucer."  Scooby was Skakespeare compared to
> *that* drek (but I still watched it....so what
> does THAT mean).

Alas, it means if they put it on television, someone will watch it. I would say today's cartoons- mostly being horrendously dubbed and edited anime from Japan- have switched "Weird" in place of "Stupid", but for the most part are no more coherent than their predecessors. That's not to say many Japanese anime shows aren't of superior quality, but rather that the American distributers feel rather intimidated by the provocative storylines of these imports, so they purposely dumb them down until they are virtually indistinguishable from the crap we're used to. The last good cartoons to come out of this country? Anything pre 1960 with Bugs Bunny in it. Those cartoons still have funny moments in them today- granted, if you have no idea who was who in Hollywood in the 1930's & 40's, the impressions will probably go over your head...

Actually, I liked "Scooby Doo." At least, the early cartoons. I liked to try to guess who the villian was, before he or she was unmasked. They would have the villain and a bunch of red herrings. My detective skills were such, I must say, I seldom picked the right villain or villainess out of the red herrings.

Just Plain Horse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have to be honest here, I HATED Scooby Doo.
> Second only to the Flintstones of All- time Most
> Hated cartoons on my list. Scrappy-Doo didn't help
> it much...
 Could live with Fred and Wilma...hate that dog! I wanted to see them get nuked along with Scrappy Doo...flesh seared of by the heat flash, radation burning into their...well, you can see how i feel...

BoyScoutKevin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Actually, I liked "Scooby Doo." At least, the
> early cartoons.

That's fine, I'm not going to try to make an opinion a fact by saying "Scooby sucks and you suck 'cause you disagree with me, blah,blah, blah..." I just get so annoyed that the general attitude is that weak, if not completely unfunny bland cartoons like scooby doobie, the Honeymooner-stones & the "Wacky" races shows were the s**t in their time. *shrugs* In the end, it's just a matter of opinions.

Just Plain Horse Wrote:

> I just get so annoyed that the general
> attitude is that weak, if not completely unfunny
> bland cartoons like scooby doobie, the
> Honeymooner-stones & the "Wacky" races shows were
> the s**t in their time.

What at the time was done better?  Not a flame - a genuine question; I'd like to hear your opinion of a 'good' 60's era animation.

I don't assert The Flintstones, Jeffersons, Scooby Doo, etc, were GOOD shows by some grand measure.  I only say that they were good for what they were intended to be: mindless animated entertainment that was relatively inexpensive to produce.  This seems like the "B" formula applied to G rated animated series television.

ulthar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What at the time was done better?  Not a flame - a
> genuine question; I'd like to hear your opinion of
> a 'good' 60's era animation.
>
> I don't assert The Flintstones, Jeffersons, Scooby
> Doo, etc, were GOOD shows by some grand measure.
> I only say that they were good for what they were
> intended to be: mindless animated entertainment
> that was relatively inexpensive to produce.  This
> seems like the "B" formula applied to G rated
> animated series television.

Hmmm.... I honestly think The Flintstones were done a little bit better- sure the plot was lame and the jokes fell flat, but there was detail in the backgrounds and none of the animation look as "recycled". Scooby Doo was as "cut and paste" as ever I've seen in animation.

Working within the limits of what they did at HB, I'd say the original run of Jonny Quest is probably the best thing they or anyone from America did during the time mentioned, 60s-70s. Not as recycled as much of the Filmation action stuff that I loved when I was little (Tarzan, Lone Ranger). More detailed, better writing, more drama (although stuff was edited out from later runs of the original series IIRC). Formula genre stuff (boys action/pulp plots combining the thrills and chills of the old Saturday morning serials with Cold War espionage) to be sure, but head and shoulders above what else was out there then or for some time after (makes crap like Sealab 2020 and Birdman look even worse than they already were), plus it holds up as entertainment even now.

Yaddo 42 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Working within the limits of what they did at HB,
> I'd say the original run of Jonny Quest is
> probably the best thing they or anyone from
> America did during the time mentioned, 60s-70s.
> Not as recycled as much of the Filmation action
> stuff that I loved when I was little (Tarzan, Lone
> Ranger). More detailed, better writing, more drama
> (although stuff was edited out from later runs of
> the original series IIRC). Formula genre stuff
> (boys action/pulp plots combining the thrills and
> chills of the old Saturday morning serials with
> Cold War espionage) to be sure, but head and
> shoulders above what else was out there then or
> for some time after (makes crap like Sealab 2020
> and Birdman look even worse than they already
> were), plus it holds up as entertainment even now.

The original Jonny Quest is one of the few shows I can think of that was as badass as it was supposed to be. I loved it. They got literally everything just right.

I know the first time I saw the invisible monster episode and the one-eyed robotic spider episode as a kid I was creeped out for days after. Checking for unaccounted for footprints and asking my dad if we had any spare paint. Listening for that distinctive sound the spider made.

Watching Race Bannon whip up on that whole mess of guys in frog suits in the ship graveyard. Having the stones to paint himself up as a deity or was it a demon, go into the savages' village on his own, and effect a rescue (it was the first time I saw that plot line used). The creepy little gargoyle dude. Damn, that was some good TV.

I'll answer my own question with a couple of others I thought of since posting.  First of all, I figgered when posting it that someone would be quick to mention Johnny Quest, and I cannot disagree at all.  JQ is certainly a different 'genre' than Scooby Doo.

The two I'd like to add are Speed Racer and Prince Planet.  Neither are American, though.

I was absolutely addicted to both of these as a young lad.  My matchbox cars became the Mach 5 and my Mom got me a P on a string to wear around my neck so I could run around the house yelling "P for POWER."

The IMDB entry (http://imdb.com/title/tt0127390/) for Prince Planet is sparse.  Like a user who commented on that page, I usually get met with blank stares whenever I mention this one.

I always Liked the episodes when the Harlem Globetrotters guest stared because Cmon guys your 12 conditioned Athletes jump on the ghost of barnaby jones (or whatever) and beat the crap out of him...reminds me of an episode of The Venture Brothers when they showed what would happen if someone dressed up like a ghost pirate and tried to scare pepole off a boat...(hes dead now8-) )

Ulthar : Prince planet? Woah, thats new to me. Makes me think of a world full of Prince of Space wannbes. ::o

I loved that cartoon when I was little; it was my favorite.  You can find more about it searching for the original name Usei Shonen Popi.  Here's some more info on Prince Planet from the planet Radion:

On the Prince Planet Page (http://www.xenafiction.net/WebWarrior/Planet.htm) there's not much info, but you can see a good visual of Prince Planet.  You can certainly see the visual similarity to the characters on Speed Racer, at least in the face.  The graphic looks like I remember except for one detail: the medallion should have a black "P" on it (maybe it had a star like is shown on the reverse).
IMDB Main Page (http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0127390/combined)
User comments on IMDB has more info than main page (http://imdb.com/title/tt0127390/usercomments)
Good Prince Planet page (http://www.search.com/reference/Prince_Planet) with plot and production details.
Another good Prince Planet Page (http://www.8thman.com/vanpp.htm)

He wore a "P" medallion around his neck from which he got his energy.  When he needed his 'powers,' he would yell "P...for POWERRRR."  The P on the medallion was like a power meter, and if the P got empty, his powers would be gone.  This was when you always thought the bad guys would finally get him.  I don't recall what he had to do to recharge.

From the user's comments on IMDB, it looks like it the only people who remember it from the US were in south Florida and Chicago.  I watched in south Florida around 1971 or maybe even before that.  IIRC, and this is really cobweb memory stuff, I watched PP before Speed Racer was on (at least where I lived).

Truly an obscure animation produced in the 1960's (aired in the US 1970-1971).