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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: CheezeFlixz on February 04, 2007, 03:55:02 PM



Title: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 04, 2007, 03:55:02 PM
I for one think it's BS ... here's why (in short).

Hollyweird believes it, so it can't be true.
There is as much info to debunk Global warming as there is to support it, but the support gets more air play because it's more fun the scare people and other lemmings.
Al Gore invented it along with the internet. :lookingup:
All statements are laced with "if" and "could" and not "will"
When Krakatoa erupted in 1883 it released more green house gases in one day than man has since he first walked upright.
READ THAT AGAIN!
Climate experts are never in "consensus" and facts and figures are all over the board with their so call hard cold facts.
Man just doesn't have that much power over the planet.
Not enough data ... experts are going on about 100 years of data out of 5,000,000,000 years of history. That would be like going to the river getting a glass of water and saying "Well this is what the water is like all over the globe." yeah right.
The 1930's are the warmest decade in record. Remember the dust bowl?
China builds 3 coal fired power stations a year and 1, only 1 of them releases more green house gases than 1.3 billion SUV's ... here that Hollyweird. Quit griping at me and gripe at China.
They got a foot of snow in Texas this year.
It was 7 degrees last night at my home in the SOUTH ... that's not warming no matter how you slice it.
Nearly every METEOROLOGIST think it's garbage. What would they know, thay only make a living predicting the weather.

I could go on but you get the point.

Now if you disagree with me that is fine, don;t give me that core sample argument of long term weather history ... again a tiny little bubble of air from 2 miles down is not going to tell you squat about global conditions. It will tell you about that tiny little bubble of air and that's it.

History is riddled with doomdayers, and so far they ALL have been wrong.
The world would end in the year 1000 ... it didn't
Again in 2000 ... it didn't
Y2K? remember that scare and nothing happened!
Remember the Bird Flu where it was going to cross over and kill half of mankind last year ... did that happen or am I in a tiny little bubble too.



OK I'm done for the moments.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Poogie on February 04, 2007, 04:51:56 PM
I just went outside a little while ago and it has to be in the 80's. It's HOT! But I'm in California and the weather here is usually in the 70 and 80's. We have our weird share of weather now and then but this has been going on for years, some years worse than others. When the years come with the unusual weather they talk more about global warming. I think they run out of ideas on how to scare the s#%t out of us so they bring up the global warming. According to all these science channels and history channels, volcanoes, meteors, earthquakes, and even the sun that is going to blow up, will beat the global warming. So there I've said it, but I'm not a genius by far.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: raj on February 04, 2007, 06:04:40 PM
Yes, the earth is going through a warm up phase.  My uncle has done tree ring from Canada, Mongolia, Siberia and Arch Angel; definitely the trees are growing quicker these days than they have for the last 500 years.

The question really should be what is causing the warming.  There is increased sunspots these days which means greater solar output and thus more energy reaching earth.  Also, our magnetic field is decreasing (and we are long overdue, IIRC, for a magnetic pole flip) thus allowing even more solar (and other types of energies from space) energy to reach us. Plus, the earth's climate has always been dynamic, i.e., inherently unstable and changing.  Various climate changes have also occured rapidly, over the course of a century. What's happening today is no different.

Now, I don't have a problem with trying to be more energy efficient, as it should make things cheaper; not to mention the world having to rely less on mideast oil -- and stop funding violent & repressive regimes.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: dean on February 05, 2007, 03:35:42 AM

I really don't know the facts and figures behind these findings, but I can tell you that it is getting hotter here every year, and we are getting drier and drier. 

About 10 or so years ago it would always rain in winter right when I left school.  Now we're lucky to get more than a solid two days of rain in, even in winter.

I'm sure there's a lot of validity to these arguments about Global Warming, but it's a dicey situation because it's not a sure thing, and I really don't see how you can ever be sure in this situation.   There's just too many variables to deal with, but I personally think its worth paying attention to: Its better we be wrong about it being a big deal rather than ignoring a potential problem.  That and it would be nice to have cleaner air etc etc, even if that doesn't affect weather patterns.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 05, 2007, 09:36:30 AM
(http://vortex.plymouth.edu/uschill.gif)

Burr cold!


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: trekgeezer on February 05, 2007, 09:49:27 AM
I do think something is going on with the climate, what I find questionable is mankind's contribution. The Earth goes through natural cycles.

Are we contributing? Probably to some degree. Are we the cause? This is doubtful, but if we can lessen the impact we should find out how and do it.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Acidburn on February 05, 2007, 10:19:34 AM
I recently read about somekind of sample someone took from the ice in Antarctica.  The ice sample showed them that over the past like 200 years or something like that the ice has melted several inches and refrozen something like 5 times.  Which shows that there is a cycle to this. The planet goes through a warm phase then it will go through a cool phase. It always balences out.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 05, 2007, 01:42:53 PM
Like I've said Al "Mr Internet" Gore and his band of chicken Little's are going on very selective and limited data. Most of them just follow suit and due no critical thinking of their own. Al said it, it's got to be true. Not just him, but many that lead these battle cry and their little Indians that follow.
Should we take care of the planet? Yes 100% YES!
Should we recycle? Again yes.
Should we find cleaner energy? Abso-freakin'-lutely
We need to be good stewards of the earth but we do not need these hyped up scare stories of doomsday  is just around the bend.
You can be responsable keeper of the planet without being a loon!


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: ulthar on February 05, 2007, 02:32:33 PM
Well said, Cheeze.  I don't usually like to post "me too" type posts, but that absolutely deserves a "here here."

The current environmental movement has set up a false dichotomy - jump on all the bandwagons or be AGAINST clean air/water/etc; agree with us on EVERYTHING, or believe the earth should be reduced to a skinking pile of chemical goo.

FWIW, I know a LOT of political conservatives that are good at conservation.  They practice it and live it.  They don't just talk about it at rallies.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Poogie on February 05, 2007, 03:58:06 PM
I've lived in California all my life, except for a couple of years in Idaho, and I can see the mountains more often now. Maybe 15 days out of the year you can't see them,(because of smog) it's usually during the summer when it's 90 and above. 10  years ago if you came here from out of town you wouldn't even know there were mountains there unless you drove right up to them. So I think all of us pitching in to help the environment is helping. Why don't they tell us when we're doing something right instead of telling us only the wrong doing? They sound like bad parents to me....okay I'm done...I feel better now..  :teddyr:


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Derf on February 05, 2007, 07:17:17 PM
I guess I'll add my "amen, brother" to what's being said. The big issue is not whether the globe is warming, but whether it's a natural warming phase or a man-made phenomenon (because, although man is merely a random offshoot of animal evolution, he is outside of nature and anything he does is, by nature, evil in regards to the rest of the planet, although there is no such thing as evil or good because, well, they are man-made constructs and therefore meaningless unless applied to white males, who all should be eradicated because they are obviously hopelessly evil. Except for Al Gore and Al Franken, and maybe Al Einstein, but he's iffy). The "philosophy" of global warming is such a mishmash of hypocritical hogwash that, even if I was shown empirical evidence of mankind's role in climate change, I'd be looking for flaws because I simply can't trust the "climate scientists" that are making the claims. And yes, I know that was a hugely confusing parenthetical statement.

In a Weather Channel blog (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=32abc0b0-802a-23ad-440a-88824bb8e528), Heidi Cullen says that any meteorologist who doesn't believe that global warming is mainly a man-made phenomenon should be decertified by the American Meteorological Society. Questioning the "science" should apparently be rewarded with loss of credibility and possible loss of livelihood.  And when criticized mercilessly for her stance, mainly with cries that her stance amounts to censoring debate on the matter, she at this point still refuses to back down, although she claims she wants a free discussion (apparently "free" of dissenting evidence or opinions). And now "climate scientists" worldwide (our motto: "You can trust us. We're scientists. We do science.") are claiming that it is a foregone conclusion that man is causing climatic instability. As others have stated, it is indeed our duty to act responsibly in regards to our environment (as one comedian put it, "even a dog knows not to go where it drinks"), but I have yet to hear an unbiased debate on the matter. Is that asking too much? Apparently.

/end rant


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 05, 2007, 07:34:43 PM
Here is a interesting article on the evil global warming.

http://www.predictweather.com/global_warming/index.asp (http://www.predictweather.com/global_warming/index.asp)


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Dennis on February 05, 2007, 11:31:59 PM
The problem with this type of subject is that no one who has a reasonable or rational opinion, or reasonable and logical arguments for or against this theory, and that's what it is, gets any media coverage, only the extremists do because that sells papers and gets ratings. Thats why we now have a whole lot of people on both sides of this and all the other"buzz word" topics who have formed their ideas and opinions based on exaggerations and propaganda.
I blame the mainstream media for this, I believe that thanks to network news shows most people now get their current events "facts" in thirty second sound bites, and those only cover the most ratings worthy portions of the story, as an example of this whenever ratings week comes to the Greater Los Angeles area all the news programs run segments about sex crimes, the wild antics of celebrities, Victoria's secret models, NFL cheer leaders and so on, not that this stuff isn't news, but why is there always so much of it at ratings time.
If you watch the science channels on cable, and you have to watch a number of shows as they cover one side to the other, you'll see that the jury is still out on this one and that now a lot of scientists are thinking global warming may trigger another ice age, but they're not sure. One thing they do say is that if this were to happen it would take fifteen to fifty years(depends on who is speaking) for it to happen and that we would know about it as it progresses, not going to happen in a couple days as in The Day After Tomorrow. What is needed here is some calm and objective investigation, not hysteria.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: ulthar on February 05, 2007, 11:51:02 PM
The other thing you have to factor into this is that right now, Climate Change (the more "appropriate" term) is now academia's research cash cow.  You are almost guaranteed funding if your proposal covers studying Climate Change, its effects or "how long we got."  In the early 90's, when I was in grad school doing academic research, it was the Ozone Hole.  There's always some catastrophe to avert, and "we scientists are the ones to fix it!!"

In other words, there is a financial incentive for a lot of these guys to be saying what they are saying.  Doom and gloom not only sells, it pays, too.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 06, 2007, 12:27:59 AM
Let us not forget Acid Rain, El Nino, Dutch Elm Disease, Polar Shift, Deforestation, Ground Water Depletion and I'm sure somebody somewhere is trying to find a way to blame tectonic plate shift on our sinful living.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: RCMerchant on February 06, 2007, 06:38:44 AM
Yes. I also believe in flying saucers,ghosts,a secret society with a hidden agenda, and that I am not a short person,everyone else is too tall. :bluesad:


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Scott on February 07, 2007, 10:02:52 PM
Not that the world should all be driving automobiles and/or have washing machines.

And as long as we have to compete economically with other nations then nobody is going to stop polluting the enviroment. They must pollute in order to compete and survive. Good energy ideas will also be gobbled up by competing energy companies till they can learn to make a profit from better technology. It's just one more reason for one world goverment.

Here is interesting side fact about volcano's.  A natural polluter of the enviroment.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993/environ/ENV050.HTM (http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askasci/1993/environ/ENV050.HTM)


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: CheezeFlixz on February 12, 2007, 09:53:21 AM

Global-warming skeptics cite being 'treated like a pariah'

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070211-112902-4433r.htm (http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20070211-112902-4433r.htm)

Scientists skeptical of climate-change theories say they are increasingly coming under attack -- treatment that may make other analysts less likely to present contrarian views about global warming.
    "In general, if you do not agree with the consensus that we are headed toward disaster, you are treated like a pariah," said William O'Keefe, chief executive officer of the Marshall Institute, which assesses scientific issues that shape public policy.
    "It's ironic that a field based on challenging unproven theories attacks skeptics in a very unhealthy way."
    Two climatologists in Democrat-leaning states, David Legates in Delaware and George Taylor in Oregon, have come under fire for expressing skepticism about the origins of climate change. Oregon Gov. Theodore R. Kulongoski is publicly seeking to strip Mr. Taylor, widely known as the state's climatologist, of his position because of his stance.
    "There has been a broad, concerted effort to intimidate and silence them," said Myron Ebell, director of energy and global-warming policy at the Competitive Enterprise Institute. "It's the typical politics of the hard left at work. I think these are real threats."
    CEI, which previously listed Mr. Legates as an "adjunct scholar," has published multiple reports questioning the science behind global-warming theories and has been criticized for accepting donations from companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp.
    Mr. O'Keefe said his organization doesn't deny the existence of global warming but questions the methods used by individuals and groups advocating for new government restrictions to combat the phenomenon.
    "We have never said that global warming isn't real," Mr. O'Keefe said. "No self-respecting think tank would accept money to support preconceived notions. We make sure what we are saying is both scientifically and analytically defensible."
    In an interview with local NBC affiliate KGW-TV, Mr. Kulongoski, a Democrat, said he hopes to take away Mr. Taylor's job title because his views do not mesh with the political opinions of most lawmakers in Oregon, including the governor.
    "He is Oregon State University's climatologist. He is not the state of Oregon's climatologist," Mr. Kulongoski said. "I just think there has to be somebody that says, 'This is the state position on this.' "
    Mr. Taylor was appointed to the position in 1991, when Oregon's legislature created a state climate office at the college. Mr. Kulongoski wants to change the position to a governor-appointed one. State Sen. Brad Avakian, a Democrat, is sponsoring a bill supporting such a move.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Neville on February 13, 2007, 05:02:13 AM
I do believe in GW, but mainly because there are palpable changes in my country during the last decades. When my parents were kids, there would be snow every year. Now we have snow every five years. Temperatures during winter are noticeable warmer, summers are hotter and rain has become far more scarce. I believe it is our third draught year now. Even birds, which used to migrate to Africa every winter now stay for all year. So yes, there's something going on with the weather.

Is it the GW? Well, the media tend to make you an esceoptic, because they blame everything unusual on GW, just to sell more newspapers, often not even citing scientific evidence nor authorities, but I found Al Gore's documentary far more plausible than the latest Michael Crichton yarn on how we got infiltrated by tree huggers that want to destroy or society. 

Well, now that apparently George W. Bush has decided Global Warming DOES exist, I can mention it around here without being labelled as a commie.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Potato king on February 14, 2007, 04:05:07 AM
pffft, global warming, big deal! When will the people realise, that when the icecaps melt we will be all dead and our children have to worry about it ? I say we do as Scott Adams recommended and live large, use up all natural resources and leave behind a fat, rich and swollen body.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Wicked Nick on February 18, 2007, 09:04:38 AM
Ive done a lot of research on global warming, even going as far as to look at data from ice core samples. In my opinion man made global warming is bunk. It is true that are earth is going through a warming cycle and that it started in the early 1900's around the time of the industrial revolution, but that still does not support that we are causing the planet to warm up. Are planet has been warming up and cooling down for millions of years, many changes far more extreme and dramatic than what we are seeing today. Scientists like to point to the data in ice core samples as proof that global warming is being caused by man, but when I started looking around the internet researching the ice core samples I found many articles explaining how inacurate ice core samples are, and that they do not give a complete picture of the earths atmosphere at the time.
Its also constantly pointed out that the ice caps and glaciers are melting. So what? Just because the ice has been there the past 100,000 years doesn't mean that its going to be there another 100,000 years. Also the average temerature at the poles is below freazing, and in many places far , far below around -30 to -80.So in order for all of the ice caps to melt and drown us all the temperature at the poles would have to rise 70 to 120 degrees, and with the average temperature around earth 70 to 80 you can just imagine how hot it would get. So Water World is looking far less plausible now.
The earth changes and we can't do anything about it. Humanity likes to think that because we are capable of so many technological advancements we can control the planet. Sorry but we can't. Nature is the dominating force on this planet and it will prevail over and reclaim any technology or land we try to take. A good example is the weather. We have tried to predict it and control it, but we fail constantly at it.  Remeber how every one living along the gulf coast was supposed to be killed off by hundreds of class 5 hurricanes last year. Guess what NO hurricanes. So just because we had a unusualy harsh hurricane season one year, doesn't mean that is the only time there has ever been a harsh huricane season. The reason why there is more destruction now days from weather is not because the weather has goten worse it because humans are dumb and build there citys along a coast below sea level. What do you think is going to happen.
Humans have tendancy to only look back at there own experinces in life and view them as the law of the world. Humans have trouble grasping that other simular events might have acurred hundreds or thousands of years ago, and will happen again anouther hundred or thousand years from now.We have after all only been seriously studying and recording weather for a little over a hundred years and have been studying the global climate for the past 50. You can't base all your knowledge on a system older than mankind on a 100 years of research,  500 to a 1000 years from now maybe you can but lets not jump the gun here.


Title: Re: GOBAL WARMING!!! Oh no ....
Post by: Jim H on February 21, 2007, 10:54:55 PM
I have to take some issues with your first post cheeze.

I for one think it's BS ... here's why (in short).

Hollyweird believes it, so it can't be true.
Quote

Erm..  Alright!

Quote
There is as much info to debunk Global warming as there is to support it, but the support gets more air play because it's more fun the scare people and other lemmings.

Not really.  Almost no one denies global warming is taking place, just the cause of it.

Quote
Al Gore invented it along with the internet. :lookingup:

Al Gore never claimed he invented the internet.

Quote
When Krakatoa erupted in 1883 it released more green house gases in one day than man has since he first walked upright.

I've heard this before.  Can you give a source?  I don't really deny the veracity, I'm merely curious.  I did find a link somewhere which suggested Krakatoa singlehandedly cooled the earth by an average of 1 degree up til the present day.  It was an incredibly powerful blast, after all.

Quote
Climate experts are never in "consensus" and facts and figures are all over the board with their so call hard cold facts.

Yeah, there's a reason weather is so over the place.  Specifics are incredibly hard to predict.

Quote
Man just doesn't have that much power over the planet.

Possibly not.  I will say humanity will be rotting in its collective grave while life goes on.

[QUOTENot enough data ... experts are going on about 100 years of data out of 5,000,000,000 years of history. That would be like going to the river getting a glass of water and saying "Well this is what the water is like all over the globe." yeah right.

They only have precise readings for 100 years.  They can estimate fairly accurately on overall trends for hundreds of thousands of years.

Quote
The 1930's are the warmest decade in record. Remember the dust bowl?

True.  Global warming is about overall trends, nothing else.

Quote
China builds 3 coal fired power stations a year and 1, only 1 of them releases more green house gases than 1.3 billion SUV's ... here that Hollyweird. Quit griping at me and gripe at China.

Source?

Quote
They got a foot of snow in Texas this year.
It was 7 degrees last night at my home in the SOUTH ... that's not warming no matter how you slice it.

Again, it's overall trends, not a single year or even a fews temperatures.  As it happens, warming can also cause periods of cooling.  Interesting, isn't it?  The overall year was still incredibly warm, in any case.

Quote
Nearly every METEOROLOGIST think it's garbage. What would they know, thay only make a living predicting the weather.

Source?

Quote
History is riddled with doomdayers, and so far they ALL have been wrong.
The world would end in the year 1000 ... it didn't
Again in 2000 ... it didn't
Y2K? remember that scare and nothing happened!

Well, in Y2K's case, nothing happened because tens of thousands of people spent billions of dollars and countless hours fixing it.

Quote
Remember the Bird Flu where it was going to cross over and kill half of mankind last year ... did that happen or am I in a tiny little bubble too.

I don't recall any specific dates about bird flu, probably because none were ever given by anyone credible.  The fear is that it could mutate into a new strain and wreak havoc, which has in fact happened a number of times with similar diseases in history.  Like the flu from 1918-1919, which killed between 50 and 100 million people.  It's not really a doomsday prediction, it would just really suck.  Human civilization would go on as long as no countries did anything overly stupid in response to it.