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Movies => Press Releases and Film News => Topic started by: AnubisVonMojo on June 25, 2007, 08:27:53 PM



Title: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 25, 2007, 08:27:53 PM
What the f*ck... WWE wrestler Chris Benoit and his family were found dead in their Georgia home today. Benoit missed last night's WWE pay-per-view to deal with "family issues" and it's suspected that all three were murdered. According to early police reports there were no signs of a gun being used. It's always unfortunate to hear about wrestlers who die of drug overdoses or accidents, but the thought that the man and his family were murdered is disturbing to say the least. Whether you're a current wrestling fan or were a wrestling fan at some point in the last 15 years, you no doubt heard of Benoit and knew that he was one of those men who was truly dedicated to his job and gave his all in the scripted but incredibly demanding world of sports entertainment. Personally this is still coming as a shock to me (much like the deaths of Eddie Guerrero and Owen Hart did) and I only wish I had USA so I could watch the WWE tribute to him going on right now.

No doubt this tragedy will also bring an end to the company's ridiculous storyline of Vince McMahon being blown up in a limosine explosion, as it would be disgusting for the man not to make an appearance tonight to mourn the passing of one of his hardest working performers.  This sucks... this really sucks...


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on June 25, 2007, 08:29:32 PM
I literally just posted about this in the McMahon thread......it does make the whole "McMahon is dead" thing look even dumber, doesn't it? 

Wrestling would be much more entertaining if they stuck to wrestling and left the soap opera crap alone.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 25, 2007, 08:35:50 PM
I literally just posted about this in the McMahon thread......it does make the whole "McMahon is dead" thing look even dumber, doesn't it? 

Wrestling would be much more entertaining if they stuck to wrestling and left the soap opera crap alone.

I think we have the infamous "Brian Pillman home invasion" scenario to blame for the dramatic increase in rediculous soap opera material over the last 15 years... jeez, it hasn't been that long already, has it?!


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 25, 2007, 09:22:41 PM
Phew........Just read this post. Nancy was such a great act in Florida in the 80's with Kevin Sullivan. This is very sad. Will tune in later tonight.


Title: WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit found dead
Post by: Fausto on June 25, 2007, 10:14:04 PM
WWE wrestler Chris Benoit has been found dead, along with his wife and 7 year old son.

I'm not someone who follows wrestling, but the thought of an entire family slaughtered got my attention. I know there are some wrestling fans here, and my condolences go out to fans of his, as well as his surviving family. The deaths have been ruled a homicide.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 25, 2007, 10:20:41 PM
Jeezus, CBS just reported that Fayetville PD are now calling this a murder-suicide... I was afraid this was going to turn into a Phil Hartman situation and whether it turns out to be Chris's fault or Nancy's, the worst thing is the possibility that one of the two was willing to kill their 7 year old son because of whatever the problem was... this is so depressing.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 25, 2007, 10:25:55 PM
Jeezus, CBS just reported that Fayetville PD are now calling this a murder-suicide... I was afraid this was going to turn into a Phil Hartman situation and whether it turns out to be Chris's fault or Nancy's, the worst thing is the possibility that one of the two was willing to kill their 7 year old son because of whatever the problem was... this is so depressing.

That would be really tragic.

Just watched the end of the Monday night show with the BENOIT, HHH, and MICHEALS championship match where EDDIE GUERRERO comes out at the end with BENOIT.


Title: Re: WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit found dead
Post by: Torgo on June 25, 2007, 10:34:34 PM
Man, that's truly terrible. I hope they find the person/people who did this and put them through the justice wringer.


Title: Re: WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit found dead
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 25, 2007, 10:37:30 PM
As I posted this in the News section, the investigation has been upped to a double murder-suicide... uggh  :bluesad:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Amontillado on June 26, 2007, 08:38:44 AM
......it does make the whole "McMahon is dead" thing look even dumber, doesn't it? 

You said it.



Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 26, 2007, 10:18:57 AM
Uggh... the latest update says that the PD estimate that Nancy and Danny were killed sometime over the weekend with Chris dying on Monday. I guess all we're waiting for now is the official statement that one of my favorite wrestlers died as a murderer who killed his own wife and child... no wonder I have no f*cking faith in humanity any more...


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Mr. DS on June 26, 2007, 11:28:10 AM
It is absolutely horrendous when something like this happens especially when children are involved.  Pro wrestling has had it's share of tragic deaths.  Thats why McMahon, as already mentioned, is ridiculous for doing the angle he did with the limo. 


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on June 26, 2007, 12:53:08 PM
I have no problem with someone committing suicide, if living in a mansion and being a rich celebrity is that hard then go ahead and step out, but killing the other people in your life is the most cowardly, spineless act imaginable.  Maybe they still wanted to live even if you didn't.  :hatred:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Pilgermann on June 26, 2007, 01:16:57 PM
I haven't been into wrestling for several years now, but I'm still familiar with some of the folks involved.  This is quite tragic.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 26, 2007, 02:05:48 PM
It's official. He is a murderer. Supposedly he strangled his wife, smothered his son, and then hung himself in the weight room.

The only silver lining in this for me is, I love terriyaki bowls. Yum, yum.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Torgo on June 26, 2007, 03:41:16 PM
Man, what is it lately with psycho men killing their wives/girlfriends and/or kids?!


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on June 26, 2007, 06:07:59 PM
Man, what is it lately with psycho men killing their wives/girlfriends and/or kids?!

Well, in this case, since anabolic steroids were found in the home, I'd say that's got something to do with this.  And from something I read Benoit had allegedly threatened his wife a few years ago also.  I didn't think he was one of the steroid users because he really didn't have the 'roid physique.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: JaseSF on June 26, 2007, 08:33:22 PM
Steroids and prescription painkillers are probably the biggest killers in today's Wrestling. While 1960s- 70s great Bruno Sammartino is still around and in tremendous shape for a man his age not to mention guys like Ox Baker and Mad Dog Vachon (aside from the loss of a leg in an auto accident) looking practically the same, wrestlers from the 1980s on seem to be almost dropping like flies. This whole affair (Benoit was a huge favourite of mine too) has me deeply saddened, shocked, stunned, depressed. It seems he must have went off the deep end. News reports are now saying he sent his friends in wrestling weird text messages that tipped them off that something was terribly wrong and left bibles next to the bodies of his family.  Horrible horrible tragedy.  :bluesad:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Ash on June 26, 2007, 09:36:18 PM
What really irks me is that the WWE is cancelling Raw on Monday night and doing a 3 hour tribute to Benoit.
I don't care how great a wrestler he was, all of his past successes were instantly cancelled out when he decided to murder his wife and young son.

There should be no tribute for a murderer.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: ulthar on June 26, 2007, 10:07:09 PM

There should be no tribute for a murderer.


Amen.

Anyone want to start a pool to see how long it will be before there's a CBS Sunday Night Movie about this?


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Andrew on June 26, 2007, 10:11:34 PM
There should be no tribute for a murderer.

Ash, you hit the nail on the head.  I don't follow wrestling, but any sort of tribute to someone who killed their wife and child is wrong.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 26, 2007, 10:20:10 PM
Vince McMahon finally dropped his whole stupid "limo explosion death" finally to make the following statement on tonight's ECW show:

"Last night on Monday Night Raw, the WWE presented a special tribute show, recognizing the career of Chris Benoit. However, now some 26 hours later, the facts of this horrific tragedy are now apparent. Therefore, other than my comments, there will be no mention of Mr. Benoit tonight. On the contrary, tonight's show will be dedicated to everyone who has been affected by this terrible incident. This evening marks the first step of the healing process.  Tonight, the WWE performers will do what they do better than anyone else in the world--entertain you." -wwe.com

When I found out that the show last night was cancelled in favor of the tribute (after only learning of the event a couple of hours earlier), I had a feeling it was a bad idea because they didn't have enough info on what happened. Sure enough, once the details started to leak, the show itself was apparently pulled from the air and all mention of Benoit's illustrious career and the memorial videos created by a few wrestlers in his honor were also immediately pulled from their website. It's more disturbing when I think about the tribute that Stephanie McMahon made, talking about how much Chris loved his family and how happy he was for Stephanie and Hunter when they told him they were pregnant with a child. More disturbing is that the only tribute video still on the website not only ends with Benoit's Wrestlemania XX celebration where he hugs and kisses his wife and son several times, but includes a shot where he looks at his hands in an ominous fashion...

I keep my fingers crossed hoping that it all turns out some home invader forced the events at gunpoint or something. Obviously this is about .05% possible, and I personally think that Benoit and his wife had an argument, it got physical, he snapped, killed her in a moment of blind insanity, thought what he later did to his son was some kind of mercy killing so he'd never have to grow living with what happened, then killed himself knowing there was no other way out and unable to live with himself after what he did... obviously this doesn't excuse what happened, I'm just hoping that, despite the release of information regarding a prior restraining order incident several years ago, that this is a case of temporary insanity and not a scratching of the surface for a darker, nightmarish secret life that's been happening all this time...



Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: BTM on June 26, 2007, 11:00:29 PM
There should be no tribute for a murderer.

I agree, but I have to ask.. didn't they do the tribute BEFORE they found out he was a murderer?  I mean, I only found out about that part of it today, so assuming that information wasn't realize till Tuesday, then I can't really blame anyone (although it does lead ot a grim "Whoops!" scenario for all those who edited the tribute together...


Title: Re: WWE Wrestler Chris Benoit found dead
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 26, 2007, 11:20:25 PM
Man, that's truly terrible. I hope they find the person/people who did this and put them through the justice wringer.

They found them ... still hanging around the house ...  :buggedout:


I think I read their blaming it on "steroid rage" or something along those lines.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Ash on June 27, 2007, 04:22:19 AM
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Actually, when I first typed the above post, I figured I was a bit harsh expressing my opinion and that some of you might have come down on me for it.
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one who thought the same thing.

It makes you wonder what kind of crazy sh*t was going on inside Benoit's head when he did it.

I've read that it was a 24 hour ordeal for Benoit and his family.
He first killed his wife on Friday night by binding her hands and feet and then strangling her.
All night passed and then on Saturday morning, he smothered his 7 year old son.
Then, either late Saturday evening or Sunday morning, he offed himself.

It makes you wonder what kind of torment he went through during the periods between each killing.
Either he was in total mental anguish, or he was cold-blooded and calculating.  Or both.

Was life so bad for him that he decided that this was the only way out?

Such a tragedy.

Click the link below for the most recent article:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Sports/story?id=3315501&page=1


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 27, 2007, 08:36:27 AM
I don't think it was "calculating", because that would imply he'd have a way out of it in the end other than at the end of a chord. Of course it's possible, but I'm hoping that's not the case. If Benoit had thought this through ahead of time, he probably would've waited for the cops to show up, then pleaded temporary insanity or something. I think Benoit just went insane for whatever reason, and not because of steroids like the media's been so eager to start throwing around with unadulterated glee. I think the man probably had depression or some other mental instability like thousands of "normal" human beings and he finally lost it. I'm not excusing what happened, I'm just looking at the strange text messages he was sending before hand and the fact that he placed bibles next to the bodies. If it had been "roid rage" like media outlets are bringing up in a "we're not quite saying that it was but we're saying it in a way to coerce viewers into thinking that" way, I think the deaths would've been much more violent and brutal in nature. Granted, killing a child is brutal no matter how anyone does it, but do you think that a guy suffering from incontrollable chemical induced rage is going to suffocate his son with a pillow? When I get p**sed off I throw things, I smash stuff, and I punch walls. Documented cases of 'Roid Rage are about violent beatings, not so-called "mercy killing" methods like suffocating someone with a pillow like Chief did to McMurphy.

From the little pieces of into that are coming in out of this, it sounds like Benoit had some serious problems and they weren't being taken care of. Between the restraining order filed against him in 2003 to the interview of a woman whose own son suffered from the same growth deficiency that Daniel had that revealed Benoit didn't want people to know there was something wrong with his son, I think the man had problems and didn't want anyone else to know about them, probably to the point that he wasn't even willing to see a psychiatrist about them. People need to be able to admit when there's something wrong with them and get over their fear of other peoples' opinions about them so they can seek treatment.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 27, 2007, 09:39:36 AM
I'd hate to point this out but this guy made a living portraying a false image. For all we know, he could be a psychotic who regularly beat his wife. We don't know.

And as for the tribute, I think it was intentional. The circumstances surrounding his death had to be known to the WWE before hand. They probably did the tribute, issued a retraction, and effectively placed distance between them and a murderer. Think about it. That would be the last time the could make money out of Benoit before it came out that he was a killer.

Of course, that's just what I think given pro-wrestling's past history with greed at the expense of the wrestler.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 27, 2007, 10:34:13 AM
I'd hate to point this out but this guy made a living portraying a false image. For all we know, he could be a psychotic who regularly beat his wife. We don't know.

And as for the tribute, I think it was intentional. The circumstances surrounding his death had to be known to the WWE before hand. They probably did the tribute, issued a retraction, and effectively placed distance between them and a murderer. Think about it. That would be the last time the could make money out of Benoit before it came out that he was a killer.

Of course, that's just what I think given pro-wrestling's past history with greed at the expense of the wrestler.

I think Benoit had issues that he wanted to keep quiet for fear of how it would affect him publicly if they got out. He didn't want people to know his son had a disease, so who knows what else he could've been hiding? For all any of us knows there could be people on this board who drown bags full of kittens and pleasure themselves to reruns of the "Andy Griffith Show", but unless there's documented evidence of it, everything else is speculation. The same goes for anyone and everyone.

As far as thinking that the WWE had knowledge of the incident ahead of time, I don't think that's the case at all and, not as a slight against you (as I don't know you), but that's a ludicrous statement. Given the backlash the company's been getting ever since the facts of the incident have been released, there's no way they would've risked p**sing off sponsors, the media and even their own fans by doing something as stupid as running such a show while knowing the details ahead of time. McMahon's been running his company successfully for over twenty years and despite what people may think about him morally (based on whatever information they might construe as being factual for whatever reason), the man's not stupid enough to try and "cash in" on something like this. And do you seriously believe that the police would give Benoit's employers information on an ongoing investigation like this? It's their job to investigate the crime scene and provide information based on evidence and said investigations, not to throw out speculation that would likely lead to losing their jobs later if it doesn't pan out. Law enforcement is supposed to be about judging after the facts have been collected, not throwing around opinions before the facts have been cleared up... something that a number of supposed journalists like to do a lot of the time.

The police discovered the scene, initially reported it as a triple homicide, and WWE, albeit jumping the gun on something like this, went ahead and ran with the information given them. If the police had been more forthcoming with such details as were later released, there's no way McMahon would've okayed something like Monday night's memorial show if he'd know that there was a chance Benoit had killed his own family. Suicide is something that can be glossed over in a tribute, double homicide of a woman and child are not... unless Bill O'Reilly thinks it can be, in which case he'll run it through his hypocritically named "no spin zone" until he's convinced himself and his viewers that it's the truth. *cough*cultleader*cough*

I don't believe that what happened on Monday night was the apex of morbid marketing, it was just an unfortunate decision based on good intentions that's since turned into a public relations nightmare revolving around a disgusting tragedy that probably could've been prevented. Hindsight is 20/20 and until someone within the police department or WWE offices says that they knew the gruesome details before going ahead with the show, that's all it is.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Mr. DS on June 27, 2007, 11:05:51 AM
I noted an article on the WWE web page today arguing against the "roid-rage" side of the story.   For me, it doesn't matter, a 7 year old child was murdered and a wife was killed in a senseless incident.  If WWE's soul concern right now is to defend against the whole steroid thing its quite shallow in my opinion. 


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 27, 2007, 11:36:55 AM
I noted an article on the WWE web page today arguing against the "roid-rage" side of the story.   For me, it doesn't matter, a 7 year old child was murdered and a wife was killed in a senseless incident.  If WWE's soul concern right now is to defend against the whole steroid thing its quite shallow in my opinion. 

Is your use of "soul concern" a *wink*wink* thing Dark, cuz if so that's probably one of my new favorite puns, heh heh.

Anyway, the WWE has posted their condolences to the families of both Chris and Nancy several times over, so trying to defuse the 'roid rage angle isn't their sole concern. They're trying to do damage control and cull in the media before they turn this tragedy into another witch hunt against their company and another effort to demonize their pseudo-sport instead of exploring the possibility that it was personal issues that caused this problem and not steroids, which the WWE has already had to deal with, more so than the MLB or any legitimate sports organizations. The last few chapters of the paperback version of the Mick Foley book "Foley is Good" discusses how professional wrestling has been the poster child for media hate groups instead of the blame being spread amongst other "good old American pastimes", but that's something better read than explaining here.

The point is that this is, as I've said a hundred time, a terrible tragedy that shouldn't have happened, to the Benoit family or anyone else. The WWE has already been dealing with a lot of problems with finding and keeping sponsors and the fact that one of their bigger public employees has caused such a nightmare is only going to hurt them more, despite the fact that the murders had no more to do with WWE than it did with NASCAR or the state of Delaware and they're just trying to keep that in mind. You can't blame a company for the actions of it's employees. If that was the case, the US Post Office would've been shut down after the Son of Sam.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Mr. DS on June 27, 2007, 01:58:24 PM
Is your use of "soul concern" a *wink*wink* thing Dark, cuz if so that's probably one of my new favorite puns, heh heh.

Huked On Fonics Wuked Fo Me Anubis...by the way, spelling/proper word use plus me=sucky results...

Indeed the media could very well spring media on WWE entertainment calling them out for the past steroid trials.  I really don't think WWE has to worry about any part of the blame in this case.  Several people have been on steroids in different sports and most haven't done an action like this.  Still, I take WWE's article arguing against "roid rage" a bad idea at this early point in the situation.  Its too early to even assume what went on in that house so why bother fanning the flames with an anti-roid rage article?  Simply post your regards and leave it alone. 

Vince McMahon's corporation never seems to keep things simple.  Dare I bring up the Brian Pilman situation where they had Pilman's wife on the night AFTER his death?  Or how about the two hour long tribute to Owen Hart after he died from a stunt that the organization set up.  I just wish they'd post one message of remorse and leave the whole situation alone.  Everything else just comes off as tacky. 

I'm no stranger to the world of wrestling up and downs.  I was an avid fan all up until Vinnie Mac bought out WCW, ECW and just about everything else.  Wrestling has always gotten a bit of a shaft when it comes to legitimacy in sports fan's eyes.  These guys are serious athletes and stuntmen who work hard.  One horrid act from a single employee should not deter people from the sport.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: indianasmith on June 27, 2007, 03:32:41 PM
I've never been a fan of any kind of wrestling, but I think this shows that the human heart is indeed a dark and dangerous place.  RIP to the wife and child, and may this man find true justice before God, not the knee-jerk reactionism of this misinformed world.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 27, 2007, 04:42:43 PM
Reading all the comments on this subject I feel Tombofanubisdotcom is looking in the right direction. Not that anyone should defend WWE, McMahon nor Benoit. Many companies are like the WWE when it comes to handling things wrong.

We are just bystanders watching the news. We shouldn't judge, but if you watched Benoit's in ring persona over the years he seems like this type of person. Even in Monday nights tribute the other wrestlers commented on him even though they were meant as "positive" comments at the time. Most of the more successful pro wrestlers live their character all the time. They are always in character. You are how you act. We've all met these type people before in real life. Even though Benoit played basically a crowd favorite his persona was always a bit intense. You can't act like that in real life. Add that to this steroid thing and you have quite a brew.

What ever drove this person to do this I hope it's all resolved in the afterlife and may they all find peace. The world can be a sick place.

In the end everyone is wrong except the innocent. Surely the son was innocent. It's a real tragedy.

Does anyone know the "full" scoop on the Kevin Sullivan's and Nancy's relationship? I always wondered about the WCW angle between the fued involving Sullivan/Benoit/Nancy that was played out on TV.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 27, 2007, 11:37:13 PM
Vince McMahon's corporation never seems to keep things simple.  Dare I bring up the Brian Pilman situation where they had Pilman's wife on the night AFTER his death?  Or how about the two hour long tribute to Owen Hart after he died from a stunt that the organization set up.  I just wish they'd post one message of remorse and leave the whole situation alone.  Everything else just comes off as tacky. 

Though I vaguely remember the fallout from the Pilman death, I do know that his wife had to have consented to being on the show, so as morbid as some would see it, it was her choice to go through with the interview. Additionally, I figure that such a thing is no more morbid that news programs harassing the families of murder and accident victims mere hours after their own tragedies, showing up on their doorsteps or even confronting them at the scene of the incident to get those all important ratings grabbing reactions of overpowering anger or remorse.

As far as both the Owen and Eddie tributes went, I don't think the fans or the other wrestlers would've let something like a simple "our condolences to their families" go. I remember watching the wrestlers on both such shows doing memorial interviews for both men and some even breaking down into tears because they cared so much for the guys. I'll never forget watching the colossal frame of Paul "the Big Show" Wight trembling as tears streamed down his face while talking about Guerrero. Hell, "Sensational" Sherri Martel just died a couple weeks ago and all I seemed to hear about it online were wrestling fans who felt the WWE didn't do enough by simply doing what you mentioned and posting their regards and condolences and briefly discussing her passing on television, and she hasn't been an active televised wrestling personality for years. Even that moderate backlash could have been part of why the company was so quick to do the Benoit tribute on Monday night, considering he was not only an active talent, but was also one of their most popular performers. If things hadn't turned out so gruesome and the WWE hadn't gone ahead and done the tribute special, the fans would've thrown a huge fit. Granted, what did happen is much worse than what could have happened, but when you're trying to keep hold of an already dwindling audience, you're going to try and appease the fans as much and as soon as possible.

Still on the topic, Benoit's long time friend and wrestling legend Bret Hart was interviewed on Fox News today: "Bret Hart joined FOX News live tonight speaking about the Benoit tragedy. He says he has known Chris Benoit since he was 11 or 12 years old and that he was a remarkable little kid who was obsessed with wrestling. Just a few years later Benoit learned how to wrestle at around 16 or 17, and his whole life was about wrestling. He says that Benoit was one of the best in the business, and that everyone backstage loved him.

Hart says that he Benoit had a lot of respect for everyone, and he was a leader in the locker room who carried the ball for the roster and implemented respect in the young wrestlers. Hart says that Benoit has 2 other children, and he has spoken to the oldest of the two who is very confused by the whole thing but is staying strong.

Bret says that Benoit has likely used steroids throughout his career, but that he thinks when Eddie Guerrero died, WWE’s new drug policy was strong enough to prevent drug abuse in the company. He doesn’t think that steroids played a role in the murders.

He closes off the interview saying that he never knew anything was wrong with Daniel’s health at all, and was shocked to hear the reports about whatever disease it was that he apparently had. He says he never heard Chris ever say anything was wrong with his son." (taken from headlineplanet.com)

This just makes me more convinced that Benoit had a lot of issues to work out that he didn't want other people to know about and it all eventually crushed him, especially the stress of being on the road 300 days a year and still trying to help raise a special needs child. Also from headlineplanet.com - "World Wrestling Entertainment attorney Jerry McDevitt confirmed, according to an Associated Press report, that wrestler Chris Benoit and wife Nancy argued over how to care for their son Daniel, who suffered from Fragile X Syndrome, in the days leading up to the double homicide-suicide.

“I think it’s fair to say that the subject of caring for that child was part of what made their relationship complicated and difficult, and it’s something they were both constantly struggling with,” said McDevitt. “We do know it was a source of stress and consternation.”

While Nancy did not want Chris to quit wrestling, she did ask that he spend more time at home to assist with caring for the child.

McDevitt said, “[She] wanted him to be at home more to care for the kid. She’d say she can’t take care of him by himself when he was on the road.”

They also argued about where to send the boy to school."

As sad as it is to buy into the sensationalism of such a tragedy, I'm very interested in hearing the toxicology report findings.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: ulthar on June 28, 2007, 12:18:12 AM
Beautiful.  So now it is the boy's fault.  He was too difficult to take care of?  They argued about it?  Somehow this is supposed to make everyone feel better about what he did?

That's bull.  The coverage of story highlights the lack of personal responsiblity run amok.  A man murdered his wife and child then commited suicide.  It's no more complicated than that.

I'm sorry, but all this proselytizing drives me crazy.   I wish they'd stop trying to make this somehow acceptable.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 12:46:54 AM
So the matter's entirely black and white to you? It's not possible that the guy snapped, went completely against his personality and killed his family and then himself in the aftermath? I'm not sympathizing with Chris Benoit the murderer, I'm trying to understand Chris Benoit the stressed out professional and family man who couldn't handle his own problems, lost it, did something horrible and couldn't deal with the reality of the tragic mistake he'd made. You make it sound like the guy was simply another Ted Bundy who enjoyed cold blooded killing so much that he decided to do it to his own wife and son. It's not possible he wasn't in his right mind? We're all predetermined to be who we are from the start every day of our lives and nothing can change that? Nobody's blaming Daniel. People don't make the choice to be handicapped. Some people go insane from the task of raising perfectly healthy kids, let alone special needs children. I've got a few friends, all of which have gone through depression and massive amounts of stress in raising their kids. If I thought Chris Benoit was just a immoral bastard who killed his loved one because he wanted to, I'd condemn him right away. Instead I'm trying to look at this with an open mind and put the pieces together as they're made available. Obviously killing people isn't justified, but there's a difference between someone planning out someone's murder and someone freaking out. This is why we have our criminal justice system has varying degrees of murder and the concept of "temporary insanity" exist. As cliched as it sounds, there really is no black and white, just different interpretations of what shade of gray everything is. We can't just give red laser guns to the good guys and blue laser guns to the bad guys and let them sort out the world...


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Andrew on June 28, 2007, 12:52:27 AM
I have to agree that someone who kills both their wife and child is having more than just a glitch in their personality.  Something was seriously wrong with him, especially since he seems to have had time to consider his steps.

I cannot consider killing someone unless I need to do so to defend myself or others.  Simply killing because you "have problems" is not something I can accept.  He might not be a cold and methodical murderer like Bundy, but he was not a man as I define one.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 01:05:24 AM
Again, do you think someone is born insane, or are they driven insane? Are we predetermined to be of one  mindset, or can people be affected by their lives, their jobs and their general situation? I repeat, I'm not condoning any murder, I'm not excusing Benoit, I'm trying to get people who are jumping to conclusions about this or any similar situation to acknowledge that people all have a breaking point and that anyone, given the worst of circumstances, can be driven to commit heinous acts of madness. Whether it's a drug addiction or a mental illness or intense stress, can you really tell me that people don't change, even for one incredibly f*cked up weekend? Andrew, as a military man yourself, you're telling me that stress doesn't screw people up? That you've never heard of the typical "he was such a nice guy and never hurt anybody... until last night" story on the news? You're saying that there has to be some defect with every person that is driven to kill unless it's an act of self-defense? People lose it. We're not all walls, no matter how much anyone would like to think they are. We have breaking points. We have tolerance levels. I don't care if someone's spent half their life as a choir boy and became the next Gandhi, everyone has a breaking point and I think Benoit reached his.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Andrew on June 28, 2007, 01:18:03 AM
I cannot imagine that Benoit ever encountered anything comparable to the scenes you will see in warfare.  Still, if a Marine went to war, saw dead insurgents, encountered children wounded in crossfires, and also saw other Marines killed that they had known - I would still say there was something wrong with them if they came back home and killed their wife and child.  I cannot view it any other way.  Even ignoring the fact that a man can think and reason, there are mental safety mechanisms in us to prevent that sort of thing.

I went to Iraq, saw some things that still, every few months, give me a nightmare.  I had one the night before last.  I saw far less of it than a true Marine Infantryman or Military Policeman that was face to face with it every day.  Still, I came home and fell right in with my family.  I know other Marines, who were deep in death and blood a few times; they came home and go through about the same things as me.  Now and then a sudden crack of thunder or firework will make us jump or drop to the deck.  We perk up when we hear certain sounds that would be a warning over there.  Every now and then we have nightmares.  So what?  If I kill my family, I am a f***ed up thing that is of no use to society ever again.  Maybe they should find out what caused me to break, sure.  However, me as a man, as a human being - worthless, forget me, end of story.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 08:52:41 AM
Okay Andrew, you've established your position on the topic and you're obviously very firm in your thinking. As has been the case at times in my life I'm going to go with the old "agree to disagree" adage, allow you (and anyone else) their opinion on the matter (as is anyone's given right in this country) and hope that everyone who agrees with you can allow me to continue paying tuition at my own school of thought without thinking that I'm encouraging the murder of women and mentally retarded children. That last part wasn't a snipe, I'm just making note yet again that I don't endorse what Benoit did to get my actual feelings on the subject down in digitized print to I have something to refer to in case anyone here is secretly Bill O'Reilly. I still believe though that Chris Benoit had problems both mental and stress related, and it's because of people such as him that psychiatrists exist: if not to fix people than to at least bang out a few of their psychological dents enough that they can avoid destroying themselves or the people around them.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Andrew on June 28, 2007, 08:56:39 AM
You will not find me attacking you for your point of view my friend.  I have a very firm view on this one and will argue it, but certainly agree that the world goes around (and gets better) with varying opinions and there is no way I could say that I will know all of them.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: JaseSF on June 28, 2007, 09:14:47 AM
Let's not forget Benoit's very likely use of many drugs, including painkillers and steroids. I've also read that Benoit was prone to bouts of paranoia over the past year where he believed he was being followed and that someone was after him. The whole thing doesn't add up in any discernible way to me. Benoit truly never seemed the type to commit such an heinous act but then I've heard that said about many other who've committed similar acts in the past (assuming he did and honestly I'm still not fully convinced and I doubt I ever will be...some things just don't add up at all  [sending text messages to friends to point out the locations of the bodies, etc.] if you consider what some others said about the man, still it doesn't mean he didn't do it either).  This is one of those things you just can never make sense of no matter how hard you think about. Apparently Benoit and his wife were injecting growth hormone into Daniel as well due to their belief he was undersized, likely a result of the dwarfishism from the Fragile X syndrome.  Benoit was a tremendous wrestler, one of the best of all time, it's so sad that things ended this way for a man who was once an hero to so many.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 09:22:12 AM
See, once again, I'm glad to be finally be a part of a forum where the majority of the people posting aren't of the "I'm right, you're wrong, let's fight about it until you call me your daddy and agree with everything I tell you" persuasion. I don't know how you do it, but thanks Andrew.  :cheers:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 28, 2007, 11:00:18 AM
Here's the truth about Psychiatry. It only works if that person wants to fix it. You could go to thousands of visits and still not show any improvement. You have to want to get better for it to work. Benoit did not want to get better, otherwise he would of.

I don't care if he snapped, was on roids or was messed up on death Shrooms. The bottom line that is undisputable is that he killed his family. He is a killer. Nobody thought he was capable of it but now it is known that he is. Killers can live false lives for many years and never once give the indication that they are that way. He made a living being an icon. At the end of the day, nobody truly knew what he was until it was too late. Benoit is obviously not the person that people thought he was. Deny it all you want, but serial killers live completely normal lives until the truth comes out. At least Benoit had the decency to die afterwards.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 11:20:10 AM
And, as I've said, deny it all you want, I think that this could've been prevented and it was a tragic mistake made by someone not in their right mind. My opinion isn't just the blind denial of a wrestling fan, it's based on my view of the situation as an outside observer sorting through the information I've been given. Again, with all due respect, I can just as easily say that anyone who believes the "he's a ruthless killer, plain and simple" is in denial that the world isn't as simple as they'd like to believe. Once again, agree to disagree. Call it playing devil's advocate, call it sitting on the fence, but that's where I stand. If everyone believed the same things as everyone else the world would be one big compound of grinning idiots nodding their heads to each other all day on their way to getting their microchips serviced.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: indianasmith on June 28, 2007, 12:18:17 PM
Anubis, you and I are probably on totally different ends of the spectrum politically and philosophically, but you do raise a valid point.  People do things in the throes of mental illness and drug addiction that they would never do in their right mind.  None of us can know what was going on in Benoit's tortured mind in those last desperate hours, but my belief in a living God comforts me with the fact that beyond this broken world there is a pure, and eternal justice that is tempered by divine mercy.

Now, before you brand me as a brainless fundamentalist, remember that I am actually agreeing with you! :lookingup:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 28, 2007, 12:19:37 PM
I love your different point of view. It reminds me of the difference of views that exist in the world. For instance, the Japanese belief of suicide being honorable. The kill one self for failure, to save face, to save pride. I cannot even fathom trying to kill myself. While others can see it as honorable confuses me.

Which brings me to the point. Benoit killed himself. Was it an honorable death then?


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 12:49:51 PM
Now now Indiana, as long as religious people aren't stuffing their beliefs down my throat and condemning me for eternity for disagreeing, you're welcome to worship whomever you want to worship and believe what you want to believe. Somebody can worship a half-eaten grilled cheese sandwich that bears a slight resemblance to Jack Nicholson for all I care, as long as they don't tell me that I'm wrong for not worshiping said celebrity snack deity myself and as such I'll require years of harassment until I finally give in and join the club. Personally I hold pretty much every religion in the same regard. As senseless as everyone finds Scientology to be, I guarantee you that if Tom Cruise had a time machine and could pinpoint the moment when the original guy started selling his Bible mythology to the masses and replaced it with "Dianetics" instead, the majority of the religious followers on the planet would be spooking their kids with Xenu instead of Satan. But, I digress, life is based on perceptions and nobody's more right or wrong than they can convince themselves they are. As such, if any of the major religions other than Buddhism are for real, I'm f*cked either way, so why stress, right?  :tongueout:

As for Benoit's suicide being honorable Bliza, who's to say. The guy committed two intolerable acts against people he was supposed to love and care for. Did he kill himself because he thought it was the honorable thing to do to make up for his crimes: taking his own life after robbing two people of theirs, whatever the circumstances? If so, some could call that honorable. Was it the last desperate act of a guy who realized what he'd done and was too ashamed or afraid to deal with the fallout of his actions? If so, most people would call that cowardly and the last desperate act of a worm of a human being. Personally, if I'd done what he had, I'd probably have killed myself too, whether because I felt horrible for what I'd done afterwards, because I'd be too afraid to live with the consequences of my actions, or a combination of both. How do I feel about Benoit doing it to himself? Without knowing what was going through his mind at the time (unless a secret suicide note comes up that explains as such), I don't have enough information to make a judgment. I'd like to think he did it to try and atone for his own acts, but I refuse to dispute the possibility it was out of cowardice.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 01:33:21 PM
For anyone interested in how Vince McMahon reacted to the tragedy in his Today Show interview earlier, here's the link (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19474972/). Whether he's still distancing his company from the murders or is voicing his personal feeling on the matter, we've got another member for the "Benoit was a monster, plain and simple" camp.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 28, 2007, 02:11:32 PM
I didn't really care if it was cowardice or not. I just wanted to get a response to see your point of view. I find it incredible that you cannot summon a definite side concerning this issue. A person's stance defines them and their personality. What is acceptable and what is unacceptable in that person defines who they are and how they react to certain situations.

In this particular case, I find it discouraging that you are defending a man who you won't pass any sort of judgement on. In my opinion, there is a definable right and a definable wrong.

Also, I do want to say that Benoit is not a monster in my eyes either. He's just a victim of his own choices. He didn't have to take the roids, if that truly is the case. He didn't seek help for his apparent mental condition, another choice he made. He could've done a million things to help himself and he chose not to. His inaction caused this event and that cannot be denied.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 03:07:41 PM
In this particular case, I find it discouraging that you are defending a man who you won't pass any sort of judgement on. In my opinion, there is a definable right and a definable wrong.

Fortunately I'm not concerned with your opinion of me nor am I concerned at how my opinions apparently affect your life. I don't know who are, I don't care who you are, and so far nothing you've said has convinced me that I should change that opinion. All I'm getting are flashbacks of people who hated Switzerland for being neutral and Bush ad campaigns attacking John Kerry for being a "flip-flopper".

As far as defending Chris Benoit goes, I reiterate once again that I'm not defending his actions, I'm trying to support an environment of open-mindedness that people shouldn't pass judgment until whatever facts are made available are made as such. I'm putting forth the notion that the only people that know for sure what happened here are sitting in a coroner's office being dissected, and that the only thing anyone else is going to have are opinions and not a solid understanding of what happened. I guess "innocent until proven guilty" and things like "reasonable doubt" are just rhetoric for some people and I hope said people aren't currently dressed in black robes and banging gavels behind a big podium somewhere. As stated before, if you're happy with a world of black & white, more power to you. I prefer to question everything and live based on the concept that everything is based on an individual's perception. This is obviously going to vary from person to person, something I've acknowledged several times in this thread. I prefer to be open enough to allow my opinions to change based on what information is presented to me. At the same time, I'm not voicing my displeasure in you for holding onto a personal belief that people who don't live up to your standards, whether that requires them siding with you in matters like this or just opting not to settle for one choice or the other. If you don't like it then, as a wise man once said, "tough sh!t" because your opinion matters no more or less than my own. The only difference is that I continue to support/defend my opinion while I see you jumping from "I love your different point of view" in one post to being disappointed in me for not choosing a side because I don't feel there's enough evidence to do so and that by doing so I somehow define myself and my personality, which apparently supersedes my prior statements.

I don't respect individuals unless they earn said respect, but I do respect your anyone's right to an opinion. This doesn't mean I'm going to agree with that by any means, especially not if you choose to go beyond disagreeing with my choice and turn it into what looks to be some kind of thinly veiled attack on me for feeling that way. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that's what it looks like from my viewpoint.

And yes, I agree that whatever happened was the result of choices and mistakes on Benoit's part, albeit choices and mistakes made while in what I myself speculate as being an extremely distressed and mentally altered state of mind. "Altered" in the sense of insanity and rage, and not in the chemical sense... unless the toxicology report comes back positive for any mood altering substances, in which case, as with every other piece of information that's come in during this week, more will be added to the story and my opinion could change.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 28, 2007, 03:40:57 PM
You know what, I tried to make it not look like I was attacking your personally, but if you want to take it that way, fine. I give. You are right and I'm a fool for living in my black and white world of definable rights and wrongs.

Feel better?


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 04:08:09 PM
Dude, you're missing the point of what I just said: keep your opinion, I'm not trying to make you agree with me. If you want to agree with me, that's fine, so long as it's what you believe to be true in your own mind, man. I'm not here to be appeased and just following along with me isn't my goal, just don't tell me you're disappointed in me for not choosing a side on a topic like "was Chris Benoit killing himself honorable or cowardly" and telling me that said decision is going to be the basis for your opinion of me. None of this is being said in anger or in an effort to "convert you", I just want to state my side of the equation and support it and I apologize if I came off sounding like the people I'm trying not to be. The offensive parts of what I said aren't directed toward you or any single individual Bliza. I'm not here to make enemies man, especially not over a topic that doesn't concern either of us personally. Like I said before, you've got your opinion, I've got my opinion and in the ultimate scheme of things, neither one matters. The same goes for everybody. I appreciate everybody's opinion and most out of all out of this I appreciate that Indy stepped forth and stands by his faith, leaving the judgment up to God and not himself. Anyway Bliza, Peace?  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 04:31:44 PM
Off of the personal stuff now and back to the investigation:

"An anonymous user operating a computer traced to Stamford, Conn. — home to World Wrestling Entertainment — posted an entry to pro wrestler Chris Benoit's biography on Wikipedia.org announcing the death of his wife Nancy at least 13 hours before police in suburban Atlanta said they found her body along with her husband's and that of their 7-year-old son, FOXNews.com has learned. Employees at Wikipedia.org said the posting went live on their site on Monday at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Police, however, said they found the bodies Monday at 2:30 p.m. EDT."


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: indianasmith on June 28, 2007, 04:43:45 PM
I just saw that!  Creepy, eh?  I wonder if he typed it himself, there in the house with two dead bodies . . . geesh, life is weirder than any B-movie!


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 04:48:11 PM
Wikipedia says that the ip address of the computer used to make the posting came from Stamford Connecticut... the home of WWE's corporate offices... this should be interesting.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 28, 2007, 04:56:42 PM
That just proves my WWE spin theory. Whooo hooo!


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on June 28, 2007, 05:00:48 PM
I read something at Fox News that suggested former wrestler Kevin Sullivan (Nancy's Benoit's former husband) could be connected to these deaths and the death of Sherri Martel a few days before.  Gotta love the Internet rumor mill.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 28, 2007, 05:21:01 PM
I don't think I've ever heard a rational person use the terms "love" and "Fox News" in the same post before. Hahaha.

Though it doesn't quite prove the spin theory yet Bliza, it does lend credibility to the possibility until something solid comes up. The strange part is that the entry only mentions the wife's death and not the son's, so I don't know if it was a post by someone based on speculation regarding the news that Benoit had to rush home for an undefined "family emergency", or if the person really knew what had happened. Being a criminal investigation, I imagine that the computer from which the post originated will be investigated and hopefully linked back to someone, as I'm very curious about where this latest turn of events takes us. Though I still think it's unlikely, if it turns out that WWE really did know about everything before the authorities and acted with this kind of irresponsibility, I'm gonna have to rethink how I spend my Friday nights...


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 28, 2007, 06:39:43 PM
Because of how he ended his life I'd have to believe he did it. The fact is he murdered them. In society we have certain rules of behavior and laws that enforce those codes of conduct. They fluctuate between people and cultures, but murder is generally a punishable by prison or death.

There is no real honor here, but we can look at and study it a bit from Benoit's point of view which is what tombofanubisdotcom is doing. For a World Champion to go to jail for killing his family. I guess he wished he hadn't done it and then figured he may as well end it when reality set in. Maybe it was premeditated. Could the first murder have been an accident? Is there more to this than simple strangulation? Was he really mad at her? Sounds like he was, but the child's murder really doesn't make sense. He was certainly delusional to kill his son even if he was a special needs child. Because we don't do that in our society. We learn from those around us. Where did he learn that? How much did the WWE people know? A lot of questions. Again we are just bystanders getting the latest pieces to the puzzle.

Strange that Kevin Sullivan's name has come up. I don't believe he had anything to do with it, but she was married to him and she left him for Benoit. The whole business is like a traveling circus out of control. They have a really bad lifestyle and to be on top you have to have big muscles, or do suicide falls that cripple you when your old, and you must be one of the gang just to compete because it's show business. They said on the news that a pro wrestlers mortality rate is 12 % higher than the average people. That's Pro Wrestling today.

What happened to the days when semi-fit guys got in the ring with simple arm bars and headlocks, without music, and fireworks when entering the ring? What happen to those super-heroes?

I was never a fan of Benoit. The fans, Vince, and the so called "locker room leaders" of the wrestling business are partially at fault as well for making the sport what it is today. Haven't really enjoyed Pro Wrestling myself since the early 80's, but must admit I liked the Monday Night wars between WWF and WCW with ECW also in the mix.

Strangely Wrestling was better off when they wouldn't admit that the sport was fake. The only deaths back then were travel related.

It's ok to chat and exercise our brains about this subject. It helps everyone a little. Maybe it's time fans back away from this "Pro Wrestling" thing till they make it less dangerous. Maybe this should be the end of Pro Wrestling.

Owen Hart, Eddie Guererro, Brian Pillman, Rick Rude, Chris Candido, and many more early deaths and all for nothing. It's no longer fun to watch. It's not that they all died, but rather the reasons they all died.

This business is enough to make one sick. Wonder if the crowds will feel the same way in a few days. I have no desire to watch even the occasional match anymore.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on June 28, 2007, 07:00:39 PM
I don't think I've ever heard a rational person use the terms "love" and "Fox News" in the same post before. Hahaha.

I'm not sure anyone in any forum has ever called ME "rational" before.    :teddyr:  And now I'm probably about to lose some of my karma points, but here goes:

Wrestling is a seedy business.  And WWE is run by someone who would, if his own grandmother were being beaten and raped by thugs, probably try to get a film crew there so he could use it as his next angle.  But it isn't just the business to blame for the rampant steroid abuse, the fault has to lie also with the fans, those of us who have ever watched and been amazed at the comic book superhero physiques pf these guys.  (I include myself, as I've been to the shows and before it got so soap-opera like I really enjoyed them.)  We bought into the image, and the promoters started telling the younger guys that they had to bulk up to be marketable.  Just like with baseball, if the fans weren't so thrilled every time someone like Sosa hits a ball into next week, the game might not have the problems it's had with steroids. 

WWE is making me a bit sick with the way they're trying to distance themselves and pretend the business has no fault.  If Benoit had already been prone to violence or depression, then the combination of steroids and painkillers would have made that cycle worse.  And if he didn't want people to know the son was retarded due to a genetic condition (and jeez that makes me angry, it wasn't the boy's fault and he shouldn't have been a source of shame), then he never would have consulted someone for help with his own problems. 

Oh, BTW, I only visit Fox News' site if someone posts a link, I realize all news outlets have their biases, but they really wear theirs on their sleeves.



Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: ulthar on June 28, 2007, 09:42:29 PM

But it isn't just the business to blame for the rampant steroid abuse, the fault has to lie also with the fans


For my part, I still "blame" the individual.  Each of us has free-will.  Each makes a conscious decision to take steroids or not.  We all know it's wrong and dangerous for various reasons.  But money, or fame, or glamour of being famous, or any number of other reasons makes it too easy to put what is right and wrong on the back burner.

Sorry, but if you play with fire, you will more than likely someday get burned.  In this case, that burning cost three lives.

Maybe the fans help create the market for sports stars to "bulk up" or whatever, but in the end, each individual makes the decision "hey, I want to be a star more than I want to do what is right and healthy."  I know my perspective is probably not the most popular, but I sure would like to see some good old fashioned personal accountability back in play.

Grown-ups have to make hard decisions like that every day.  Someday, hopefully, folks like this wil realize that fame and fortune are not worth the cost they ultimately pay.  Rather than give my money to this type of guy (by being a fan), I'd rather celebrate the guy in a gym somewhere helping little old ladies with their 30 minute workout - you know, the ones who decided fame was NOT worth selling their soul.  We don't know their names, but they have 1000% more honor and respectability than some loser who took drugs to get ahead and stood on the shame of his only son while up there - THEN commited two murders and suicide while his legacy hides under the skirts of "I'm really a victim" in its posthumous pleading for sympathy.

That's all from me on this subject.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: RCMerchant on June 28, 2007, 10:48:03 PM
Wow. I never been a fan of wrestling. Always thought it a waste of time(coming from someone who's favorite movie of all time is the BRAIN THAT WOULDN'T DIE,yet!) and space. It's really sad,though,that lotsa kids idolize these meatheads,not realizing it's all just phoney bullsh!t. And when one of their idols does something like this...I dunno...
 I'm not condeming TV wrestling...you like what you like...I just think this is all very...sad. I'm not gonna even try to guess why he did what he did,because,when it's all said and done,only he knows...and he ain't talking. :bluesad:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 29, 2007, 08:49:11 AM
No loss of karma points for anyone today Snivelly, but I don't blame you for saying the McMahon is a ruthless money whore who would do anything to gross a few extra dollars. That's exactly the image that's been portrayed of him forever and that's the image he likes to maintain. If Mick Foley's books are to be believed (and since he's been given pretty much free reign to write what he wanted to, I'm apt to do so), McMahon likes to pretend he's the bad guy most of the time, he can be a genuine bastard some of the time, but much of the time he's genuinely concerned for his wrestlers. Whether you can chalk that up to him being a decent human being, looking out for his investments, or just trying to avoid the collateral damage that comes with these people getting hurted, crippled or killed while still using them to make his company flourish and his bank account swell, I don't think McMahon can really be blamed for the steroid abuse in the industry. I think it really can be centralized on the performers themselves who either want to be as big and rediculous as possible for their own ego, or because they're paranoid that they'll lose their jobs if they're not the biggest meathead out there... which, as we've learned, paranoia is linked to steroid abuse, so it isn't a far fetched idea.

Because of the big push against professional sports by the government to crack down on juicers, WWE had been very strict on their drug testing. Benoit was listed as being clean just two months ago. I also know that like any test there are ways that people can cheat and avoid detection, so though I'd like to think that Chris Benoit wasn't on steroids and that the ones found in his home were instead being used in some perverse way to try and fix Daniel's growth disorder, everything is still speculation until the all important toxicology reports come out, no matter how many times the news media try to say "WERE STEROIDS TO BLAME?!" in it's scariest voice possible. The worst part is that if the report comes back positive, I'll be able to admit my theory was wrong, while a negative report will most definitely NOT result in a retraction by any news outlet, because technically they never "said" it was steroid abuse, they just implied (strongly) that it could've been the cause... ignoring the possibility of basic human mental problems and an abuse of painkillers or alcohol because those aren't sensational enough reasons to make it onto the 11 o'clock news.

As far as blaming the fans, the fans are just consumers buying a product. If you look at someone buying a beer and you can go up to them and blame them for every violent act brought about by drunks, then you're more than welcome to blame wrestling fans for steroid use. Though I've been a regular viewer since I was watching the Pay-Per-Views with my grandpa twenty years ago, I've never purchased a single piece of wrestling memorobilia. Any events I've seen, either in an arena or on television was either free or paid for by someone else, so if you can blame the fans for the tragedy that's fine, because my conscience is clear. Again though, the logic's going to vary from person to person based on who you choose to blame: the manufacturers of a product of the buyers of the product. If you don't endorse drunk drivers running over children, stop drinking beer. If you don't endorse people dying of cancer, stop buying tobacco products. If you don't endorse people shooting each other, stop buying guns. If you don't endorse people running each other down, stop driving cars. It's a sticky situation, hence why I agree that individuals should be blamed for their actions.

If it was steroids that drove Benoit to kill his family, he chose to take them. Even if you want to blame the fans or the company for wrestlers taking enhancing drugs, that excuse can't be used on someone like Benoit who has/had an established fan following to whom he could do no wrong before this week. He wasn't a power guy, he wasn't a beefy superhero, his popularity came from his hard work and his ability to put on a technically impressive show. If anything, you could gear the blame for this instead to the painkillers that a guy would probably need to put on such a physical showing 300 days a year.

If it was the stress of his job that drove Benoit to kill his family, he chose to keep such a rigorous schedule. When you're as established in the company like Benoit was, you didn't have to bust your ass because you've already proven your dedication to the company. Look at a guy like the Undertaker who, even when he's not injured, is only required to wrestle two or three times a month if that. It's because the man's an established money generator and WWE will do what it takes to keep him from jumping ship to a rival company like TNA. The same was true for Benoit: he didn't need to bust his ass like he did and he didn't need to put up with all the stress he might've been given, but because wrestling was his life and because he wanted to help mold the next generation of superstars (like he did with MVP and was looking to do with CM Punk), he probably burned himself out doing so.

If it was the problems of raising a handicapped child that drove Benoit to kill his family, he chose to keep Daniel in his life. Some people aren't ready to raise children period, let alone a special needs child. I'm not blaming the child, because that's just stupid and anyone who would turn that around on me is just trying to start some sh!t. Daniel didn't ask to be born with his disease. If the disease was something that the doctors could catch while still in the womb, it was Chris and Nancy's choice not to abort. Even if they couldn't do so for moral or religious reasons, they could have put Daniel up for adoption. In a relationship where the husband's job requires him to be away for 80% of the year, that's no ideal situation for your average child to grow up in, let alone a special needs child. If you're not willing to put your all into raising your kids, you shouldn't be allowed to have them, end of story. Personally I think there needs to be a licensing program to make sure people are worthy to even have children, much like the adoption screening process. Granted, that wouldn't solve all of the world's problems and thinking as such would be ignorant, but I think it would definitely address some very serious ones. Anyway, the point is, if Chris couldn't handle the care needed for Daniel, they could have put the child up for adoption. If Nancy refused, then Chris should've just left. Which brings me to my final point...

If it was pride and fear of social judgment that made Chris Benoit kill his family, well, this is where I have a problem. I think pride and fear of judgment by others is a stupid thing. I wear what I want in public, I shave my beard when I feel like it, I belch, fart and curse when I feel it needs to be done no matter where I am. It's true. Unfortunately, too many people are concerned with what other people think. Celebrities are the worst when it comes to this. Unfortunately, because of the position they're in, where who they are and how people perceive them is their entire livelihood and the slightest normal mistake is guaranteed to be plastered all over tabloid papers and news shows for weeks on end, nobody wants to look like an idiot, a lunatic or a loser in the public eye. Earlier generations of people were told that their business is their own and nobody should know about their shame. This is why so many people look down on psychiatrists and being open with their emotions: because people will judge you and you'll be a freak ripe for ridicule and accusations. Again, the fact that Benoit was a public figure only made this moreso. Personally, I have no problem with seeking psychiatric help, especially if I think life is driving me mad. If I think there's a problem with me, I'll talk anybody's ear off about it, as I've got nothing to hide. Some of the things I think or say make people do a double take and wish such things could be unheard, but it's better than bottling it up and letting it do serious damage later on. Benoit obviously wasn't nearly as free or open about his problem. His son had a crippling disease and he didn't want anyone to know. He likely had personal problems and possibly a severe depressional disorder, but everyone knew him as "mild mannered". It's easy to look upon that and say that he could've easily went out and got his issues fixed, but again, the biggest part of having a problem is admitting it. I have a friend who's an alcoholic, but because he refuses to acknowledge that he has a problem, he'll never seek treatment. With something like that, it's easy to do an intervention, but if it was a problem that was easily kept secret, it's entirely possible that people wouldn't know and therefore nobody could know that the man needed help. I think that's a personality thing and isn't as easily overcome. Anybody can refute that and say it's bullsh!t, but just because you can do something so easily in no way means that everybody else can do it that way too.

Oh, and as far as WWE being too over-the-top and sensationalistic, they've actually toned down things the last few years with the exception of the infamous limo explosion angle. I tried watching "simple, basic wrestling" and realized that I don't like TNA... who currently employ Scott Steiner, the biggest most blatant case of steroid abuse in the world. Sensationalism is what people want. It's a testosterone driven soap opera. Watching people wrestle is obviously the core, but watching grown men in tights doing the same moves over and over week after week doesn't make for good television. Just ask TNA, whose ratings haven't been able to claw their way out of the toilet despite all the big name talent they've wooed the last few years. If all you're looking for is the basic wrestling minus the drama though, go with TNA. Or, if you just want to see your old favorites doing that they did best, MSG broadcasts a show called "Madison Square Garden Classics" every Wednesday night that shows nothing but old matched from the famed venue with all the drama cut out. It's a good show, I record it every week.  :thumbup:



Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: madbliza on June 29, 2007, 12:31:10 PM
Verdammt!

Apparently that Wikipedia thing was a hoax. Now I have to go back to the conspiracy board.
Mwahaha.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 29, 2007, 10:39:55 PM
I agree that todays "fans" will never except old time wrestling unless they start with a whole new fan base and skip the whole "money" idea...............then they could go back to the old ways.

Maybe this is the end of pro wrestling. The natural decline and end. Much like the gladiator games of Rome the spectators just get bored and they need to invent new ways to kill people.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 30, 2007, 12:39:50 AM
I agree that todays "fans" will never except old time wrestling unless they start with a whole new fan base and skip the whole "money" idea...............then they could go back to the old ways.

Maybe this is the end of pro wrestling. The natural decline and end. Much like the gladiator games of Rome the spectators just get bored and they need to invent new ways to kill people.


They still haven't introduced wild animals yet spring up from the floor ....  :buggedout:


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on June 30, 2007, 08:43:45 AM
I agree that todays "fans" will never except old time wrestling unless they start with a whole new fan base and skip the whole "money" idea...............then they could go back to the old ways.

Maybe this is the end of pro wrestling. The natural decline and end. Much like the gladiator games of Rome the spectators just get bored and they need to invent new ways to kill people.


They still haven't introduced wild animals yet spring up from the floor ....  :buggedout:

No, but there was that god awful "Hell in the Cell Kennel" match between Al Snow and Riot Gear Variant Big Boss Man several years ago... which brings up "the Legend of the Penis Suplex"... hahaha

Anyway, I don't see this as being the event that kills professional wrestling. Any actually wrestling fan detractors I'm hearing from in the last week have all been condemning Benoit, not wrestling itself. I'm not sure what event would actually kill wrestling at this point. If there ever comes a time when the fans finally give up on wrestling, it won't be until the entire roster is filled with people who have absolutely no charisma and no wrestling abilities. Basically, a locker room full of Mark Henrys and Great Khalis...


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: JaseSF on June 30, 2007, 11:26:11 AM
Wrestling should go back to the old ways. In the old days, wrestlers didn't need to be bulging with muscles. Many had pot bellies but could wrestle and compete with the best. Guys like Adrian Adonis, Mad Dog Vachon and Dick Murdoch could wrestle circles around most of today's stars. Get rid of steroids. Get rid of addictions to painkillers. No more ridiculous unbelievable hardcore/garbage wrestling and stupid stunts. Just get back to basics. Creating believable matches between two guys or pairs of guys in a wrestling ring. It worked for Verne Gagne vs. Nick Bockwinkel, it worked for Dory Funk Jr. vs. Jack Brisco, it worked for Bruno Sammartino vs. Ivan Koloff. Lou Thesz lived into his 90s. The Crusher was well up there in years too. Bruno, Mad Dog and Ox Baker are among just some those names still with us today.  I'd really love to see both the fans and the media rally against McMahon's "sports entertainment" and demand a return to classic pro wrestling the way it was always meant to be. Not saying there wasn't always a certain element of showmanship but it didn't always dominate things like it does now. 

Here's a message from the widow of the late Ray "Hercules" Hernandez who once competed in the WWF as the Mighty Hercules. It speaks volumes IMO:

"My name is Debbie Fernandez, wife of the late Ray “Hercules” Fernandez and I am writing to you because I am sickened by the recent tragic event to strike the Wrestling World. I am also appalled at the fact that Vince McMahon is trying to play off the idea that there is not a Steroid Use problem in the WWE. After Ray died, I was too devastated to open up a discussion regarding the deadly roll that Steroid use plays in the lives of these wrestlers, but now, after seeing yet another tragedy, I must speak up. Vince McMahon acquires these young men, who are eager to join the world of wrestling, and who do not know any better and think that they are going to be rich and famous, but at what price?

He all but preaches that his Wrestlers do not take Steroids, and they are periodically tested, now does anyone really believe that? There is a reason why so many Wrestlers have died at such a young age, partly due to the Steroid use, and most importantly because most of them end their wrestling career with NOTHING! They have no health benefits, they have no retirement, and they are just tossed out like yesterdays trash. The only one who benefits from their blood, sweat and tears is Vince McMahon. They wrestle when their sick or hurt because they are so scared to lose their jobs, and they will, so the only way that they can stay in the game is to take steroids. Does Vince McMahon really expect us to believe that he knows nothing about the wrestlers using steroids?

The problem is that like my husband, many of the wrestlers from that era were too loyal to the profession to say anything, because if you rocked the boat, you knew you were on your way out. They just had to suck it up and do whatever it took to keep their jobs. They control everything you do professionally and personally, right down to picking your accountant, so that he can steal you blind. With all the money that the WWE brings in, you would think that they would take care of their investments and offer them the proper benefits that they and their families deserve. Now, I do not believe that Chris Benoit’s actions were caused by Steroid use, but, I do feel that Vince McMahon should be held accountable for the fact that he IS aware of everything that is going on, and that the majority of Wrestlers do take Steroids. When is it going to be enough? When are these guys going to join together and realize that unless they stand up to McMahon and fight for the benefits that they deserve, and that the WWE can afford to give them, they are headed for an early grave.


Sincerely,
Debbie Fernandez"





Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on June 30, 2007, 01:33:56 PM
Thanks for adding that JaseSF.

Ultimately the individual is responsible, but the times can also be out of control. We see this at different levels of "corprate culture" it's just that the WWE has become a really abhorant entity.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: JaseSF on July 01, 2007, 09:36:23 AM
As you said though Scott, it is still a matter of personal responsibility. These wrestlers ultimately still make the wrong choice themselves if they take steroids, get themselves addicted to painkillers whathaveyou. That said, I think pro wrestling would be in better shape today if there were more options out there for wrestlers to pursue other than Vince's WWE which is really the only place they'll make the big money.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Snivelly on July 01, 2007, 04:10:21 PM
I just read this article about Lex Lugar and what's he's up to these days:

Wrestling can leave lives on the ropes
Lex Luger tumbles from fame and fortune, but still counts his blessings

By BILL TORPY
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 07/01/07

Lex Luger doesn't mince words when asked about pro wrestling's appeal.

"People like to see freaks," said the former Lawrence Pfohl. "It's like live cartoon characters."

Not long ago, Luger was 270 pounds of romping manly aggression and animalistic sex appeal. It's what his public wanted and he gave it to them in steroid-fueled, larger-than-life doses as "The Total Package," a man who borrowed his name — sort of — from Superman's arch-enemy.

But the freak show that became Luger's life nearly killed him. The man who made millions, flew in private jets and lived in mansions is now dead broke, sleeps on a used bed and keeps his clothes in neat piles on the floor.

Luger is a pro wrestling casualty, although he considers himself lucky. He recently turned 49, an age many of his friends in the business will never see.

The latest in that growing toll was Chris Benoit, the "Canadian Crippler." The 40-year-old Fayette County resident apparently strangled his wife, choked his 7-year-old son to death and placed Bibles by their bodies before hanging himself by hitching a weight machine's cable to his neck and letting drop 240 pounds.

The Benoit family's tragic end once again exposed the sordid underbelly of professional wrestling.

Luger hadn't seen Benoit in several years but believes his old friend was in a "dark place" due, in part, to the frenetic pressures of the life and many years of drugs he took to build himself up and to keep the pain at bay. Authorities found steroids in Benoit's home and are investigating whether "roid rage," an explosive fit of aggression traced to steroid abuse, had anything to do with the deaths.

Benoit is one of many who have died early.

Keith Pinckard, a medical examiner in Dallas, started logging the deaths of pro wrestlers and ex-wrestlers after his office performed an autopsy on one killed in an accident.

"It seemed bizarre," said Pinckard, "there seemed to be a lot of deaths."

There were. He found nearly 70 who died early going back nearly 20 years. It was a rate at least seven times the rate of the general population, he calculated. The causes of deaths fell in common themes: drug overdoses and heart attacks were most common, followed by suicide and "natural causes."

Vince McMahon, owner of the World Wrestling Entertainment, the federation for which Benoit and Luger wrestled, has said the organization has instituted drug testing in response to such allegations of abuse.

"The last test that Chris Benoit took of a random nature was in April which he was totally negative," McMahon said on NBC's "Today" morning program. "That doesn't mean that he wasn't taking prescription medication and perhaps even steroids when this happened. We don't know."

Wrestling's casualties

"Ravishing Rick Rude" died in 1999 after being found unconscious in his Alpharetta home with empty prescription bottles near his bed. The death of the 40-year-old (his legal name was Rood) was ruled a heart attack. He suffered a neck injury years earlier that virtually ended his career.

In "Rude's" obituary, wrestler Curt Hennig, "Mr. Perfect," memorialized his lifelong friend as a performer who gave fans what they wanted.

Four years later, Hennig, 44, was found dead in a hotel, Authorities ruled it cocaine intoxication.

In an obit for Hennig, Atlanta area wrestler Ray "Big Boss Man" Traylor Jr. noted the mounting loss of his closest friends. "It used to be me, him and Rick Rude together," Traylor said. "And then Rick died."

A year later, "Big Boss Man" died of a heart attack.

The pressures on wrestlers to perform night after night grew as the business got more lucrative as federations such as McMahon's WWE went international.

But as wrestling exploded in reach, smaller regional circuits that gave more wrestlers a living dried up.

Atlanta resident Gary Juster, a former wrestling promoter, said the old circuits needed wrestlers, men who added a shtick to their act, but were athletes first and foremost.

Then, about 25 years ago, the sport changed. "The look of a typical wrestler changed," Juster said. "It changed from wrestler to bodybuilder, that chiseled look. There wasn't as much passion for the craft."

As "The Look" became more important, steroids became more popular. "Guys did whatever they had to do to get ahead," Juster said.

The pressure increased as jobs became fewer and more lucrative, said former wrestler Rick Steiner.

"Now there's pay-per-view every week and TV every night. There's the added pressure to look good and there's 100 guys wanting what you have, so a lot of guys take the easy way out," said Steiner, who is a real estate agent and school board member in Cherokee County. "You got to be ready to go every day — and if not, there's a lot of guys ready to step in for you in a heartbeat.

"Some guys sell their souls to be on TV," said Steiner, who came up in the business with Benoit in the mid-1980s.

Steiner said he took "every supplement I could" coming up. "It wasn't a controlled substance then." But Steiner stopped. "The benefits vs. my long-term goals went different ways."

He retired several years ago when his body started aching and he was asked to go back on the road 20 days a month. It was a scary moment. "There's no pension, it's what you save, " he said. "It's over and that's it. Once you are in the limelight and get a taste of the crowd, [some wrestlers] can't let it go. A lot of guys have trouble making that transition."

As is Lex Luger.

Seeking stability

Luger, a Buffalo native, banged around in the Canadian Football League and the United States Football League as an offensive lineman before trying his hand in a Florida wrestling circuit.

Luger still looks good as he sits behind a desk at Western Hills Baptist Church in Kennesaw. His face is tanned and heavily creased, the body lean and his biceps still resemble bowling balls.

But when he gets up to walk, he hobbles like he's 80. He has put in for hip surgery with Social Security.

Luger was as big as they came in the 1990s and rolled through millions of dollars, he said.

Life on the circuit was exciting and exhausting. Some years he was on the road 300 days a year. There were 5 a.m. flights, daytime gym work, shows at night, parties in some hotel or penthouse.

And then repeat again and again.

He needed help to keep up with the pace.

"Steroids were there as a shortcut to get size," he said. And then there's the pain from the never-ending body slams and pile drivers. "You start with a painkiller for bumps and bruises. And then you need more. It's never enough."

Those on the circuit were a family, "a dysfunctional family" he said. Everyone wants a piece of a superstar. "There's a lot of leeches, losers, cruisers and abusers."

"I found no matter how hard you chase it, it's never quite enough," he said. "Money makes you more comfortable being miserable."

Luger's fall was hard and quick. He got divorced and in 2003 he made an early morning call to Cobb County 911 saying his girlfriend, Elizabeth Hulette, known on the wrestling circuit as Miss Elizabeth, had passed out.

She was taken to Kennestone Hospital, where she died. The autopsy showed a mix of alcohol, painkillers and tranquilizers in her system.

He was arrested for possessing three kinds of steroids found in the home. Later, he got a DUI. "My life had fallen apart and I still didn't get it," he said.

A judge sentenced him to probation and revoked it in late 2005 when he went to Canada for a work appearance without court approval. An arrest and two strip searches later, the former Total Package was back in Cobb County Jail.

Luger credits Steve Baskin, the pastor of Western Hills Baptist, with pulling him from a terminal tailspin. The jail chaplain met Luger in early 2006 and sensed the former wrestler was spiritually wounded.

"Here's a guy who would have died or gone to prison," said Baskin. "He didn't have the skills to negotiate through his probation." Baskin said Luger had never learned to think for himself well enough to handle "regular" life experiences.

After Luger was freed, Baskin's friends — Doc Frady, pastor of Clarkdale First Baptist, and his wife, Jan — invited Luger to their home for a birthday party.

Luger learned the couple had been married 54 years and had lived in the same house for much of that time.

"It brought tears to my eyes," Luger recalls. "I didn't even know people like that existed anymore."

Luger lives in a spare bedroom in Baskin's apartment and is trying to figure out a path in life.

He'd like to help counsel those in trouble. Or maybe be a fitness coach. He even said he'd take clients out to the supermarket and show them what to buy. He's eager. He's uncertain. To him, regular life is a new business.


http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/07/01/0701metwrestler.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab  (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/fayette/stories/2007/07/01/0701metwrestler.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab)

Maybe I'm getting soft as I get older, but I'd like to see the guy actually get a chance at doing something after this.  But I have to wonder, why didn't he have a financial adviser or even just someone with more insight to tell him to put some of that money away?  These guys do have to realize it won't last forever, it's rare for these guys to work past 40 or so.


Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: JaseSF on July 01, 2007, 04:30:41 PM
Another possibility here (taken from the NY Daily News - http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/07/01/2007-07-01_benoit_took_daterape_drug.html

 (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/07/01/2007-07-01_benoit_took_daterape_drug.html)):

"Benoit took 'date-rape drug'

Sources: Wrestler mixed GHB & steroids

BY CHRISTIAN RED
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER

Sunday, July 1st 2007, 4:00 AM



When authorities raided the Georgia home of wrestler Chris Benoit last week, they discovered a stockpile of anabolic steroids and prescription drugs, enough to spark the theory that Benoit descended into a violent "roid rage" and, police say, murdered his wife and 7-year-old son and then killed himself.

But in the wake of the lurid events that played out in suburban Atlanta last weekend, the Daily News has learned that another drug may have been part of a deadly cocktail that could have caused Benoit to snap. According to sources familiar with his drug regimen, Benoit was a known abuser of the drug gamma-hydroxybutyrate - or GHB, also known as the "date-rape drug." Benoit was known to have used GHB with former wrestler "Gentleman" Chris Adams when both men competed for the now-defunct World Championship Wrestling (WCW) in the late '90s. They used the drug together until Adams' death in 2001, according to sources who knew both men, and friends say Benoit was still using it as recently as two years ago.

"Benoit was a GHB user and he did it with Chris Adams," the source told The News. "The question is, does GHB use play into what happened (in Fayetteville)?"

Authorities are still waiting for toxicology results on Benoit - whose stage name was "The Canadian Crippler" - but would be unable to detect GHB in his system without a complicated test conducted on his hair sample. Still, Benoit's past use of GHB opens up the seamy side of the wrestling world - one filled with hulking men who pile-drive their opponents while scantily clad women parade nearby. Professional wrestling is a "sport" that has long been saddled with accusations of rampant steroid and drug use.

"Everybody in the wrestling business had a liking for GHB back (in the '90s)," says a Benoit family friend. "The whole business was on it." GHB, which increases sexual prowess and boosts energy among other effects, is a Schedule I controlled substance commonly referred to as the "date-rape drug" and is illegal. The Benoit family friend corresponded with Nancy Benoit just weeks before her death but noticed nothing unusual. "She told me, 'I'm driving Chris crazy, but it's a short trip,'" the friend says with a laugh. "I don't think this is a monster acting out. I really don't buy that."

The same cannot be said for the British-born Adams, who was indicted on manslaughter charges after his girlfriend, Linda Kaphengst, died of a GHB-alcohol overdose in April 2000. But before Adams could stand trial, he was involved in a violent scuffle with friend Brent Parnell, before Parnell shot Adams to death with a .38-caliber gun in late 2001 near Dallas. Mickey Grant, a Texas-based filmmaker who recently completed a documentary on Adams, says that "both Chris's (Adams and Benoit) were friends at WCW" and that another wrestler confided to Grant that Benoit and Adams were "G buddies," a reference to GHB's common street name.

Grant, who knew Adams for over two decades, says he never saw the two wrestlers using the drug, but was devastated by Adams' "life gone to hell" as a result of his GHB addiction. "G, in my opinion, is a far worse drug than even crack (cocaine)," says Grant.

In the Benoit case, authorities found Nancy with her feet and wrists bound, and indications are Benoit used a chord to strangle her while applying his knee to her back. Daniel was suffocated. After the murders, Benoit reportedly placed a Bible next to each body and later hung himself using a weight-machine pulley in his workout room.

If Benoit was indeed still using GHB - or if he was trying to kick a habit and suffering from withdrawal - it is likely he would have become violent.

"You see guys that are on (GHB) who go on rages," says Trinka Porrata, a retired Los Angeles police detective who is president of the non-profit Project GHB and who has counseled and detoxed GHB addicts, including several professional wrestlers. "But another possibility, which is more likely, is GHB withdrawal. If (Benoit) tried to stop using it and went into withdrawal, that would explain the bizarre behavior - the text messages, the Bible and the suicide especially. You can suffer a terrible depression coming off this stuff. It's not a quit cold turkey drug."

Porrata adds that it is not uncommon for GHB users to add methamphetamine into the mix, and that meth abuse often contributes to bizarre acts involving religion.

"The question everybody asks is, 'How in the hell could you kill your son?' Well, in a meth psychosis, your son could be the devil. That can happen quite easily," says Porrata.

Benoit composed a bizarre series of text messages to several colleagues during the weekend of his killing spree, including one where he wrote out his full, formal Georgia address. In another, he stated that "the dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open." In a voice mail to a colleague, Benoit said "I love you," which the colleague said was "out of context."

Porrata says that the more severe state of GHB withdrawal - as opposed to addiction - requires at least a 14-day detox period under the care of a physician or health professional. She says the suffering is more intense and debilitating than coming off a heroin addiction. "There's sweating, your blood pressure rises in days one and two," Porrata says. "Then the psychosis starts. Days four, five and six are the worst. You hallucinate and there can often be violence accompanied with it. By day 11, the head starts to clear, but you are left with an intense depression."

The Georgia medical offices of Benoit's personal physician, Dr. Phil Astin, were raided by Drug Enforcement Agency agents Thursday, but the records remain sealed. Astin has stated that he has prescribed testosterone to Benoit, who had low levels attributed to rampant steroid use. Fayette County District Attorney Scott Ballard and Lt. Tommy Pope of the Fayette County Sheriff's Office did not return calls from The News, and it is unclear if authorities were planning to test Benoit for GHB use. Many law enforcement agencies, Porrata says, still fail to administer the test.

Michael Benoit, the wrestler's father, said last week that he hopes toxicology tests will help explain his son's actions.

Says Porrata: "We try to put things in our own terms, 'Well, I couldn't kill my own child.' Yeah, but if you were on GHB or were psychotic, a mental illness or (something) drug-induced, it's not a rational act. It doesn't excuse it, but you can't explain it on your own moral values."

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Title: Re: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...
Post by: Scott on July 01, 2007, 08:21:02 PM
Another good post JaseSF. Never heard of GHB. If it's a date drug you'd think it be slipped to a female, but looks like he was taking it.