Badmovies.org Forum

I am a historian with a bachelor's degree, so I love historical movies when they are well done, and I like them even when they are awful.  So what are your favorite historical movies?  I have several, among them . . .

GLADIATOR - Russell Crowe is just great in this one, and the actions sequences ROCK!  Of course, Commodus was actually strangled in his bath by a wrestler, not killed by a gladiator in the Coloseum, but that would not have made nearly as good a movie.

LUTHER - Not a lot of people saw this one, but it features a great performance by Joseph Fiennes as the great Reformer, not to mention the last role played by Sir Peter Ustinov before his death - as the Elector Frederick the Wise of Saxony, Luther's patron and protector.

AMISTAD - Maybe the best movie ever made about American slavery.  Again, some historical facts were altered and skewed, but the movie actually stayed true to the core of the actual events, and Anthony Hopkins was incredible as John Quincy Adams.

FLYBOYS - OK, WWI aviation was my first historical fascination, and there are so many errors in this movie I can't count them all.  But it was the first movie about WWI Flying Aces, the bravest men who ever lived, since THE BLUE MAX in 1966.  So I ate it up like candy, especially the 45 plus minutes of air combat footage!  I would still walk away from just about everything I've done or achieved in my whole life if I could get into one of those old biplanes and duke it out with the Kaiser's best over the Western Front.

I have others, but it's late.  I'lll mention them tomorrow.

So what historical films do YOU like?

I'm sure I'll think of others later, but off the top of my head I like 1776 (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068156/).

That's a cute musical . . . a bit dated, but still has its moments.

THE PATRIOT is also a favorite of mine, particularly the battle scenes.  I frequently use that clip from the Battle of Camden in teaching how 18th century warfare worked.

I have the ones Indy listed so I won't repeat them, but I'd add ...

Amadeus - historically wrong but still great.
Saving Private Ryan - nuff said.
Amazing Grace - again historically wrong.
Elizabeth, the Golden Age - great film.
Barry Lyndon - a great mostly forgotten American film.
Alexander Nevsky - take to long to explain, read up on it.
Ivan the Terrible - Excellent film from the commie pigs.
Hitler, The Rise of Evil - historical errors but still good.

That's enough there a dozens more I could list, few are historically correct ... but after all they're movies and documentaries.

The Flintstones?

Just kidding.

One that hasn't been mentioned is The Great Escape. Also enjoyed Fat Man and Little Boy.

Will probably think of more later.

Full Metal Jacket-  Tet and Hue City

Sid and Nancy-  It's a great look at the punk culture of the late 70's.

Master and Commander: The Far Sid of the World-  I don't know why but I love this movie.  It's the greatest Star Trek movie ever made.   :wink:

THE PATRIOT is what I consider a "trade-off" film.  You take the gorgeous production design and sprawling battle re-enactments but give big time on the historical accuracy.  In this case, you give alot!  The not-quite-Tarleton villain, the watered down Francis Marion, the oversimplification of race relations(a concept they wouldn't have had, no less).  I'm a tremendous fan of the film and only wish they could have played a little less to the common denominator audience, whose knowledge of American history allows them all that silly leeway.  The trouble is that, as with FLYBOYS, films about this conflict are so few and far between, beggars can't really be choosers.  So I'll take it.   The use of the Cowpens strategy was sweet, though they had to give Daniel Morgan's lines to Gibson.  I also like the depiction of lingering animosity from the French and Indian War, stunningly done thanks to the always great Tchéky Karyo.

Hugh Hudson's REVOLUTION is too often slagged on.  While yes, Pacino is a little out of his element as a Hudson Valley trapper, the look of film is stunning.  An ugly murky New York being pulled apart by conflicting loyalties(complete with the tearing down of KG3's statue!), a little more attention paid to Native American presence in the conflict and the most unsavory performance by Donald Sutherland ever!  I found the sense of exhaustion displayed at the end of the Yorktown sequence to be little more effective than the Schoolhouse Rock depiction in THE PATRIOT.

I do have very high hopes for HBO's JOHN ADAMS in March and April.  In the teaser vid you can catch a glimpse of the "Mohawks" at the Tea Party.  With a cast chosen for their acting chops rather than box-office, it promises to be a little more grounded of a portrayal.

Both HBO and A&E have done some awesome historical stuff.  ROME is a real favorite of mine, and there are two A&E films - THE CROSSING with Jeff Daniels as George Washington, and THE LOST BATTALION with Ricky Shroeder as Major Charles Whittlesey, that are really good.


Another frequently overlooked gem is RESTORATION, starring Sam Neill and Meg Ryan.  A glittering look at the court of King Charles II, it includes and increcible picture of the Great Fire of London.

What did you guys think of THE TUDORS?  I have only seen one or two episodes.

Movies about historical events are just that, movies, they're meant to entertain so the movie makers take liberties with the facts for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad. They seem to feel that if the movie is historically accurate people will find it boring so they add, subtract or change the facts to fit their idea of what the public wants. It took me a while to understand this, but when I finally did these movies became much more fun to watch, some of my favorites:
The Longest Day
Saving Private Ryan
A Bridge to Far
Amadeus
Immortal Beloved
The Tuskegee Airmen
Knute Rockne
The Spirit of Saint Louis
The Patriot
Revolution
Hell to Eternity (actually got to see Guy Gabaldon once, doesn't look a bit like Jeffery Hunter)
Forrest Gump (not a historical movie but the film is full of history)
Gettysburg
Memphis Belle (according to my dad, who was there, this is full of mistakes, but manages to get the
idea across)        
Boys Town
There are a lot more, but I've got stuff from the "Honey Do" list to take care of so I'm stopping.   

I love it! Gorgeous production values, top notch acting, naked chicks! However, there is still a lot of historical inaccuracies. They cram the events of several years into what seems to be months and at other times just flat out make stuff up, especially in regards to Henry's sister, Margaret.

IMMORTAL BELOVED . . . was that one about Beethoven?  I seem to remember it, but I can't place it.

You know, in recent years, Hollywood has become increasingly obsessed with King Charles II.  He has been a featured character in three big films: RESTORATION, THE LIBERTINE, and STAGE BEAUTY.  Of the three, I thought the depiction of him in STAGE BEAUTY the weakest and RESTORATION the best, although John Malkovich did a good job in THE LIBERTINE.  That movie was just so grim and depressing I could not enjoy anything about it.

Haven't seen it yet, waiting for the DVD.

Watched Elizabeth R the other day and it was really good.



Correct with Gary Oldman, excellent film.

Other good one not yet listed,

Moll Flanders
North and South
Flags of our Father
Letter from Iwo Jima
Downfall
Mrs Brown
Glory
The Private Life of Henry VIII
Richard III
The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc
Tristan & Isolde
Judgment at Nuremberg

and another 100 or so more.

DOWNFALL was excellent, as was HITLER: THE RISE OF EVIL (You don't have a copy of that one you'd part with, do you?)


Did you happen to see a foreign film from about the same time, a French film set in World War I - I think it was THE VERY LONG FAREWELL or something like that?

Is anyone a fan of I Cladius here?  I love that series, even as a kid.

I don't know if I have a favorite historical picture, but I recently watched David Lean's Doctor Zhivago, and was impressed for far from the first time by what a beautiful film that was. Not only is it a brave subject to have been taken on in the west at the time it was made, and not only does it tell a sweeping story that I think was translated well from the novel, but there are moments of sheer unhurried artistry there that are so impressive.

Take for instance a shot of a moment of brutal conflict during the First World War, and a number of Russian men charge the German lines, and the man who initiates the charge falls, and his eyeglasses spill from his face, and if you look carefully you can see that this was no accident, Lean clearly planned the positioning of the dead soldier and his glasses, because you can see the battle reflected in them, somehow distanced and made almost...lovely, all because it is seen in the way that it is.

What other director would have set up a shot like that? Some, but not many, and I don't if anyone else could have done it so well.

Other historical films I like, in no particular order...

Henry V (1989)
High Noon
Rome
Rome Season Two
Saving Private Ryan
Matewan
The Painted Veil
The Name of the Rose
(2004's) The Alamo
Breaker Morant
Intolerance
My Brilliant Career
Mansfield Park (1999)
Gothic
Titanic
The Emperor and the Assassin


Okay, that's a lot but I am probably leaving so many off that I'll later think, "Man, I should've mentioned that one...!" But that's it for now.

Hmmm...good topic!!! Some off the top of my (tired) head-
.ED WOOD
.ZODIAC
.RAGING BULL
.SAVING PRIVATE RYAN
. Alan Ormsby's DERANGED (you know-the thinly veiled Ed Gein bio-pic?)
.the ELEPHANT MAN
.BONNIE and CLYDE
.BEN-HUR
.SPARTACUS
. TORA! TORA! TORA!
.SID and NANCY
. DILLENGER (with Warren Oates)
.BLOODY MAMA (with Shelly Winters, Robert DeNiro...lots more! 'Bout the Ma Barker clan....!)
...more later...Ima tired...I went and got a  income tax advance of $440 dollars from H+R Block today...as soon as I got into the van in the parking lot outside  of H+R,the altenator seized...busted the drive belt. It cost $60 to get it towed to Muffler Man and $352 to get the dam thing running in time to go pick up Angel at work. Whatta day....now thats a dam hystercal drama! Enuff to drive a man to drink...ughh...but-I'm still as dry as a popcorn fart.

Karma to EMMR for her first post!!! I hadn't mentioned 2004's THE ALAMO, but it is a really great film.  Billy Bob Thornton was quite good as David Crockett, and Dennis Quaid was excellent as Sam Houston.  One of my arrowhead hunting pals is a Texas Revolution Reenactor, and he is in several scenes in the movie.  Overall, it is the most historically accurate of all the Alamo movies.  I especially love the way they handled Crockett's death scene  . . . . much more believable than the way John Wayne did it.

This is one film that I can say taught me something, I had always believed that the defenders of the Alamo were all from America, I was quite surprised to learn that 35 or so were from Mexico and were lead by Juan Sequin.
The town of Sequin, Texas is named after him.

They were Tejanos - native Texans of Hispanic descent who fought for independence.  Of course, Texas was part of Mexico, so they were Mexicans, too, I suppose.  At San Jacinto Houston wanted them to guard the baggage train - he was afraid that once the killing started, his men would not distinguish one Hispanic from another.  Seguin refused, so his men all stuck playing cards in their hats to identify themselves.  They killed as many Mexicans as the Anglo-Texans did that day!

Crockett's demise was better in the 2004 movie than in the John Wayne one (or Fess Parker's musket swinging finish in Disney's 1950's depiction) but in portraying that death as shown the producers were also more or less giving a nod toward the veracity of the De la Peña Diary with its version of the event, and I think that's stretching things a little considering the unproven nature of that document. Still, it was a hard hitting scene. "I'm a screamer..." Good stuff!

To limit it to movies in my collection:
The Battle of Britain.
Dangerous Liaisons
Master and Commander, the Far Side of Forever.

Now there's a big favorite of mine.

"So...I'll tell the cabinet that you're trusting in radar and praying to God, is that right?"
"More accurately the other way round. Trusting in God and praying for radar."

I can't go to an airshow without humming that incredible Luftwaffe march.  :thumbup:

I think the de la Pena diary may be the real thing.  There are five other Mexican sources that mention prisoners being executed after the battle, and two of them name Crockett, I believe.  Of course, they could have copied de la Pena, I guess.  There is an excellent work called "Eyewitness to the Alamo" that actually includes every single purported eyewitness account of the battle, and the date they surfaced.  Some of the later ones, like Madame Candaleria's accounts, are obviously fanciful.

Cannot verify the historical accuracy of this one:

10 Commandments with Charlton Heston.  I saw it as a child the first time and just loved it.  Even now, it draws me in.

Amadeus with Tom Hulce.  He did a brilliant job.  And I absolutely hated Cagliari and could cheerfully have murdered him myself.

Quills with Geoffrey Rush.  That was okay from what little I saw.

Joan of Arc with Leelee Sobieski. (sp?)

     Zhivago is wonderful -- I've watched this one numerous times over the years and marvel at it all over again from time to time --
     The house covered entirely in beeswax to simulate ice -- The fields painted white because it was 90 degrees in Spain when they shot it -- Klaus Kinski in one of the best cameo roles of his or any actor's career --
     Lean certainly doesn't inspire the passion that other directors seem to get -- the Welles' & Pasolinis & Kurosawas, etc. -- in part because he had a reputation as being a bit of a cold fish, but looking at his body of work, he came up with some astonishing pictures:  Lawrence of Arabia, Bridge on the River Kwai, Zhivago, and his under-appreciated Charles Dickens masterpieces, Oliver Twist and Great Expectations.  Indeed, in any discussion of movies about times in History, I would put Lawrence, Kwai, and Zhivago as my top 3 in that order.
     Somewhere further down has to be David Wark Griffith's Birth of a Nation, racism & all.  As others have noted, the battle scenes play as if Matthew Brady had access to the Lumiere Brothers' cameras 15 years early.
     The Best Years of Our Lives still plays as if it happened just the other day -- a stunning little picture that swept the Oscars the year it was released & deservedly so.
peter johnson/denny crane

Thank you, I knew there was a term for Sequin and his men, just couldn't remember it. I recall reading, possibly in "A Time to Stand" by Walter Lord but I could be mistaken, that most of the Americans in Texas at that time were in fact Mexican citizens, the Mexican government was giving land grants to people who settled in Texas and one requirement was that foreigners become Mexican citizens. When Santa Ana became the ruler of Mexico they felt he was taking away the rights and freedoms granted to them by the government and decided to fight for what they felt was theirs. If Santa Ana had just abided by the agreements made with the settlers there would have been no war and no independent Republic of Texas and possibly the map of North America would be very different.

 . . . and I'm an "I, Claudius" fan too, though Graves by his own admission was fictionalizing as he went on that one.
peter johnson/denny crane

Same here.  My mother introduced me to this gem and I remember, even as a kid in the 70s, being captivated by it.  They had a rebroadcast one summer with Anne Bancroft introducing the episodes and I recall her grave warnings to the television audience that they'd be witness to savage acts of violence and wanton displays of boobies.

It also made me a lifelong fan of Derek Jacobi. ...and John Hurt.  ...and Sian Phillips.   ...and Brian Blessed.   ...and John Rhys-Davies   ...and Patrick Stewart.  :teddyr:

"If Santa Ana had just abided by the agreements made with the settlers there would have been no war and no independent Republic of Texas and possibly the map of North America would be very different."

Possibly, but I doubt it.  Mexico was incapable of sustaining a working government, and Anglo-Americans were unwilling to live under a people who were seemingly incapable of governing themselves.  Also, Mexico had essentially allowed Texas to govern itself for a decade while they underwent several consecutive revolutions . . . but when they saw the Anglo population of Texas had swelled to over 20,000, they decided to crack down on all further immigration from the U.S. (sound familiar?).
  The Americans had come to Texas assuming they would enjoy the same rights and privileges they had as U.S. citizens under the liberal Mexican constitution of 1824.  If Santa Anna had not suspended that document, one of the dictators who followed him would have.  Mexico simply did not have the tutelage in self-government that the Americans had enjoyed under the British for 250 years, and even today they still haven't got their government house in order.

P.S.  My great-great grandfather Jim Youngblood and his family came to Texas in 1832 or so.  He fought in the Texas Revolution as a 16 year old, helping capture San Antonio from General Cos.  Then he served in the Mexican-American War at age 28, and later on in the Civil War in his early 40's - and never got shot!!  Married a girl 14 years younger than himself, had six kids with her, and outlived her by two decades, dying at age 91 in 1911 - one of the last surviving veterans of the Texas Revolution.

Since my last post here I've been thinking about it and I have to agree with you, even without the revolt in Texas the westward expansion of the United States and the idea of manifest destiny would have lead to North America being pretty much what t is today. I just sometimes like to daydream about "what if ?" type of situations.

Braveheart!

I plan to be a historian, too.

I recommend "Jack of all Trades" (TV show). The obvious historical inaccuracies are what make it so hilarious.

Platoon
300 (had nothing to do with actual battle of Thermopylae, but still. The fights were bad ass.)
Gettysburg

Nice thread, I too have a Bachelor's in History so I appreciate good historical films. Most of my favorites have already been mentioned so I'll chime in with a few others.

Ghandi, its long as hell, but a good look at the independence of India. Was that the last movie released with an actual intermission included?

Midway, I loved the game of Cat and Mouse between the Japanese and American fleets.

Patton, Excellent rendition of the general by George C. Scott.

Nixon, A fairly even-handed review of the former President. Pretty surprising for an Oliver Stone film. I didn't expect to like it, but I did.

There are many others but these come to mind now. I'll throw in Boogie Nights while I'm at it. It's not exactly high-minded history, but it's still a damn good movie filmed true to the period setting.