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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: indianasmith on April 21, 2008, 08:09:24 PM



Title: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: indianasmith on April 21, 2008, 08:09:24 PM
I'm driving by the station today, watching them change the numbers YET AGAIN.  I like it no better than anyone, but who is to blame?  The bumbling President, the evil oil companies, the environmentalist wackos, government regs and taxes, or just the marketplace?  What do you think?


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Patient7 on April 21, 2008, 08:14:36 PM
I say it's big oil.  Every time someone comes out with a new way to improve fuel efficiency, they get a patent to sell more.  This isn't propaganda, it's actually happening.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: indianasmith on April 21, 2008, 08:20:50 PM
Four votes, four opinions.  Keep em coming, guys!


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Mr. DS on April 21, 2008, 08:25:25 PM
I voted for big oil although I'm sure they know certain politicians very well.  Meanwhile, the common folk are the ones who get screwed.  Remember, the less we use the more likely it will be that prices will come down.  Get on the bikes and ride em. 


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Ash on April 21, 2008, 08:25:43 PM
It's a combination of several things that make gas prices so high.
Saying it's Bush's fault is just idiotic.  Whenever I hear someone say that, I have to seriously wonder about them.   :lookingup:

Want to really know the truth about how gas prices work?  Read the article below:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm

And here's a great article on how to get better fuel economy:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/how-to-get-better-fuel-economy1.htm



Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: CheezeFlixz on April 21, 2008, 08:30:38 PM
It's a combination of choices environmentalist fight exploration and the building of new refineries, it's also the emerging industrial nations of China and India needing more fuel than ever (supply and demand). The government has little to do with fuel prices it's a freely traded commodity just like orange juice or pork bellies (Trading Places anyone) So while it's easy to blame the oil companies they on average make 8 cents a gallon on refined gas, where as the government makes 16 cents and states make even more, in my state KY it's 39.9 cents a gallon. Fine your states rate here (http://www.kentuckygasprices.com/tax_info.aspx) It's easy to blame Bush, blame big oil it's the market and the inability to drill for more. Many oil companies want to drill but aren't allowed to because of environmental regulations, now I'm not saying big oils hands are squeaky clean, just saying it's a publicly held and publicly traded commodity and stock so while the price goes up you are free to buy in and make so of those profits too. Currently 60% of all oil company stocks are held by mutual funds ... so you might be profiting yourself already.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: nshumate on April 21, 2008, 09:30:49 PM
There definitely needs to be an "all of the above and more" option.

Here's my great idea: Instead of pouring subsidies into the Iowa straw poll -- excuse me, the biofuels sinkhole (since there is no way that even the most efficient production of biofuels can do more than shave off a fraction of our oil consumption, and the changeover of farmland from crops to biofuels is spurring the current food price hike), government should concentrate its energy subsidy money on two things:

1) The development of an efficient, powerful electric motor which can honestly hold its own in performance against gasoline engines for 95% of consumer needs (that would have to include a high-storage battery); and

2) The technology for clean, cheap, renewable electricity production.  I don't care if it's geothermal, wind, solar, clean nuclear, or even fusion, or a combination of them all.  But once we can have cheap renewable electricity and vehicles that can use it well, we'll be able to end our reliance on both fossil fuels, coal and oil, and avoid the pollution that goes with the one and the foreign policy necessities that go with the other.

Any candidate who stands up and makes that energy policy promise can have my vote, even if he/she eats babies on the campaign trail.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: LilCerberus on April 21, 2008, 10:15:52 PM
I would think options 3 & 5 would be one in the same, or at least I would've voted for both, bit I could only pick one.
I blame the estate tax.

One thing that annoys me, a lot of these leftists like to point to programs over in Europe & taut their successes, while pretending to laugh at those who point out their shortcomings. So, why not legalize those two-stroke & twelve-cylinder engines that are so popular over there?

If everybody owned a motorcycle instead of a car, there'd be less congestion & more parking.

After being subjected to all sorts of PSAs & PBS shows & so on & so forth, on how I could be saving money by being more environmentally conscious, I've come to the conclusion that frugality is a luxury of the rich.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Captain Tars Tarkas on April 21, 2008, 10:41:19 PM
I wish it was $3.50 here...


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: indianasmith on April 21, 2008, 10:44:33 PM
Now that more people have weighed in, I'll give my  opinion.

There is some blame to go around to all of the above; but I blame the oil companies the least.  They get the stuff out of the ground, refine it, and deliver it to your neighborhood for a whopping profit of 8 cents per gallon.  And those profits are shared by many Americans whose 401K's and stock portfolios include shares of the oil companies.  I do think it is ridiculous that we are trying to process five times the amount of oil per year that we did over 20 years ago with the same refineries that we had in 1979!  Not drilling in ANWAR was just stupid; I still am furious with the Republican Congress for not getting that bill through . . .

but more than anything, a white-hot demand coupled with a steadily diminishing supply is driving this buggy, and there is no end in sight.

  I did hear that there was a pretty huge oil strike in Brazil recently.  Maybe that will drive prices down.  At least it's in our own hemisphere, and if we are going to have to kowtow to the cultures of some foreigner, I prefer Carnivale to Sharia Law any day!


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: CheezeFlixz on April 21, 2008, 11:10:08 PM
Let's not forget the recent info on the North Dakota oil field being much, much larger than they originally thought.

http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=17448 (http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=17448)

and that is AMERICAN OIL ... there is more untapped oil in America than anywhere else in earth, WHY you may ask ... turn to those that are afraid that a oil rig with less than a 2 acer footprint is going to disrupt the migration patterns of the Porcupine Caribou or the Gwich’in tribe people.

So more on those here (http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/caribou_con_in_search_of_anwr_truth.htm)


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Captain Tars Tarkas on April 21, 2008, 11:54:08 PM
ANWR will take ten years to produce a drop of oil.  It will do nothing to help gas prices now nor probably until 2020 if anything even happens.  And when it does, the $0.02 a gallon we save will be totally worth it.  Maybe we should work on better electric cars and fuel efficiency instead.  The North Dakota field has been known about forever, it is only now profitable because the extraction technique is pricey and oil prices are now large enough to make it in the black.  A drop in oil prices means they will stop extracting in ND and there goes all our oil reserves.  BTW Exxon is the most profitable company for the fifth straight year with $40 billion.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: LilCerberus on April 22, 2008, 12:41:39 AM
Let's not forget the refineries destroyed by Katrina.

Let's not forget this stupid situation we've gotten ourselves in with corn squeezin's, especially when everybody knows that pine pitch & manure are better.

I used to have a Sunbeam HotShot. I was looking at this thing about ten years ago, & I found myself wondering just why hasn't anybody tried going back to the steam engine?

Why is it that environmentalists are always planting oak trees in lieu of fruit baring trees, only to end up complaining about how they have to rake up the leaves & the acorns? And all oak trees do is choke out other plants, trees etc, & in the end, they fall over, trashing your house, wrecking your car, killing your dog...

I have a bicycle. I can't ride it, because it needs new tires.

And don't forget the estate tax.
Buy a motorcycle!


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on April 22, 2008, 07:21:40 AM
I'm joining others in the "I ain't touching these religion and politics threads with a 10ft pole" philosophy, but I just wanted to chime in about buying a motorcycle: motorcycle insurance is expensive (a crotch rocket can cost you twice that of a car and it never goes down), the safety provided by a motorcycle is nill (my brain damaged uncle can attest to that), and if you live in a state that's prone to a lot of moist or frigid weather you're screwed six ways from Sunday. I've watched my dad do this my entire life, I've watched a few of my friends attempt to do this in recent years, motorcycles are a good idea but I wouldn't give up your car to do so.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Ash on April 22, 2008, 07:31:20 AM
I agree with Anubis about motorcycles.
They are extremely dangerous and if you regularly drive one, your life expectancy WILL go down.

Trust me, I know. 
My only younger brother was killed in a motorcycle accident.
He died a pointless death and for what?
A quick spin on a motorcycle and he was gone from this world forever.

I don't hate motorcycles...it wasn't the motorcycle's fault that he died.  It was his fault.
But they are dangerous.  Even if you're wearing a helmet. (as my brother was)

You're better off riding a bicycle or walking.

I think this boils down to laziness.
Americans in general are VERY lazy people.
We may work hard and strive to do our best in our jobs and personal lives.  But when it comes to physical fitness, we suck.

I used to live with a roommate and we lived 2 blocks from a gas station.
My roommate would actually get into his car and drive 2 blocks to go to that station rather than walk.
(I always walked over to it)

Gasoline is like crack to America and we all need to go into rehab.




Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Patient7 on April 22, 2008, 06:09:59 PM
I just realized, if more people walked, gas wouldn't be so expensive and americans wouldn't be so FAT kill two birds with one stone.

Also, there is probably a LOT of oil under the oceans, if we could only find a safe way to get at it...


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: AnubisVonMojo on April 22, 2008, 07:01:27 PM
Ash, I'm sorry to hear that man. Stories like your brother have always made me wary of driving anything with less than four wheels on the road. :bluesad: I was raised around motorcycles and thank Osiris that my dad's never had an accident, but my uncle was sideswiped 15 years ago and has permanent brain damage as a result. His 28 year old son still lives with him so he has someone to drive him around and take care of his house.

Where I used to live, a bicycle wasn't really feasible because we were in the middle of nowhere and the nearest store was about 5 miles away... and that's 5 miles of hills to boot. The best thing about moving to a bustling metropolis is that I'm within a few blocks of everything I could ever need and any reason I have to leave the neighborhood can be done via bus or subway. I miss the hell out of my car because it was probably the coolest ride I'll ever have, but I don't regret not having to pay insurance, upkeep, and those lovely inflating fuel prices that make me ill every time I go back to the homestead.


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: RCMerchant on April 22, 2008, 07:03:55 PM
I blame the French. Dam Frenchies!  :hatred:


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Allhallowsday on April 22, 2008, 07:55:44 PM
Indiana, maybe you need another voting option?  Perhaps it's investors dumping their money in commodities out of fear and seeing increasing profits.  Coupled with increased demand worldwide, this is the place to have invested your money a year ago or even in the last few months. 
Otherwise, you're like the rest of us without money to invest and you're strangulating to pay gas, oil, bread, eggs, milk... which cost more and more and more. 


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Jack on April 23, 2008, 02:10:28 PM
I voted economics, but now that I think about it, it probably is the fault of those damned Frenchies!   :teddyr:


Title: Re: WHO DO YOU BLAME??????
Post by: Trevor on April 24, 2008, 05:23:00 AM
Indiana: gasoline prices are the highest they've ever been in South Africa.

You get about ten South African rand for one US$: our price per litre is currently R8.50c which is the priciest that fuel has ever been here.

I really don't know who to blame: I actually feel like walking the ten miles to work everyday that I have to otherwise travel by car or use the bus which is cheaper.  :question: