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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: CheezeFlixz on June 25, 2008, 01:26:13 AM



Title: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 25, 2008, 01:26:13 AM
There is a lot of them, the think that is making my head explode at the moment ...

I'm trying to comprehend just how MagicJack, some internet phone thing is free.

The ad says ...
(http://www.magicjack.com/images/freelocal-test13.png)

ALL OF THIS FREE for just $39.95 ($19.95 a year after that). Right there my heads explodes, it's FREE and it cost $39.95 for the first year and $19.95 every year after. How on earth does it cost money if it's FREE?

Jeez this inflation is really bad, even the cost of FREE has gone up.

So anything make your head explode?


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Jack on June 25, 2008, 07:34:52 AM
Spam always makes me shake my head.  For instance, here's a typical one:

Quote
explain imperial


CA5N8ADI4AN PH4A4RM6ACY SP3E8CI8AL

F9EMA3LE V9IA3G9R1A - $1.46
C8I8A5L4I7S - $2.29
L1E7V8I9T4R1A - $3.67
SO92M7A - $0.57

N4o ov8erh7ead - lo2we4st pr7ic7e

write intellect

I mean, is there actually a single person on the entire planet who would be stupid enough to respond to something like this?  How can it possibly be worth anyone's time to send out million upon millions of these things, 24/7, for years on end?


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Trevor on June 25, 2008, 07:59:07 AM
I just viewed the footage taken of me during our awards ceremony last Thursday: I look like a complete dork in it, filmed in glorious ShakyCam and at one point, I look like I'm begging for food.  :buggedout: :buggedout:

I have my hands together in front of my face so I'm either praying or I'm begging for food. Yikes.  :buggedout: :buggedout:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Patient7 on June 25, 2008, 09:19:23 AM
Pop up ads, any website with pop ups just bugs me.  I don't want a new curser, I don't want to see who has a crush on me (how they can know that completley vexes me), and I don't want to take The Idiot Test! :hatred:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 25, 2008, 09:28:11 AM
Pop up ads, any website with pop ups just bugs me.  I don't want a new curser, I don't want to see who has a crush on me (how they can know that completley vexes me), and I don't want to take The Idiot Test! :hatred:

That is the magic of Ad Block.

If you use Firefox (which you should) then go here ..

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865 (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1865)


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 25, 2008, 12:20:12 PM
Spam always makes me shake my head.  For instance, here's a typical one:

Quote
explain imperial


CA5N8ADI4AN PH4A4RM6ACY SP3E8CI8AL

F9EMA3LE V9IA3G9R1A - $1.46
C8I8A5L4I7S - $2.29
L1E7V8I9T4R1A - $3.67
SO92M7A - $0.57

N4o ov8erh7ead - lo2we4st pr7ic7e

write intellect

I mean, is there actually a single person on the entire planet who would be stupid enough to respond to something like this?  How can it possibly be worth anyone's time to send out million upon millions of these things, 24/7, for years on end?

I think the theory is that there IS exactly one person on the entire planet who' s stupid enough to respond to something like that.  Once the spammers find that person, they will direct all future spam at them and leave the rest of us alone. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 25, 2008, 09:10:17 PM
Well today I had a HERE'S YOU SIGN moment ... (a la Bill Engvall)

As some of you might know I had a HDD die, so I ordered some new ones and they came in today. My wife called me and said "Your NewEgg package arrived today it's in your office, don't forget to go by Radio Shack and get a SATA cable if they have one."

Ok no problem, I didn't order one because the HDD shipping was free and the SATA cable shipping was $5.99 EACH for a $2.95 cable which is insane... I'll just buy one at the store.

OK so I go to Radio Crap Shack (the closest thing to a electronics store in rural America) and the genius working there ask me what I need and it goes like this ...

RS: Hi, help you find anything?
ME: Yea I need 2 SATA cables ... to go.
RS: What?
ME: SATA cables, Serial ATA for a hard drive, like an IDE cable just smaller, looks a little like a USB cable.
RS: Is it for a computer?
ME: No, it's for a '46 Plymouth ... here's your sign.

Anyway they didn't have it, but they could order it for $9.95 each ... sorry I'll go to Office Depot in a neighboring town tomorrow they have them for $2.49. 

But wouldn't you think that if you work at a electronics store you know a tiny bit about them.  Say like SATA, IDE, USB, hard drive and Serial are all computer related ... so go ahead and make that leap of faith I'm talking about a computer.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Trevor on June 26, 2008, 02:54:42 AM
Well today I had a HERE'S YOU SIGN moment ... (a la Bill Engvall)

As some of you might know I had a HDD die, so I ordered some new ones and they came in today. My wife called me and said "Your NewEgg package arrived today it's in your office, don't forget to go by Radio Shack and get a SATA cable if they have one."

Ok no problem, I didn't order one because the HDD shipping was free and the SATA cable shipping was $5.99 EACH for a $2.95 cable which is insane... I'll just buy one at the store.

OK so I go to Radio Crap Shack (the closest thing to a electronics store in rural America) and the genius working there ask me what I need and it goes like this ...

RS: Hi, help you find anything?
ME: Yea I need 2 SATA cables ... to go.
RS: What?
ME: SATA cables, Serial ATA for a hard drive, like an IDE cable just smaller, looks a little like a USB cable.
RS: Is it for a computer?
ME: No, it's for a '46 Plymouth ... here's your sign.

Anyway they didn't have it, but they could order it for $9.95 each ... sorry I'll go to Office Depot in a neighboring town tomorrow they have them for $2.49. 

But wouldn't you think that if you work at a electronics store you know a tiny bit about them.  Say like SATA, IDE, USB, hard drive and Serial are all computer related ... so go ahead and make that leap of faith I'm talking about a computer.


 :smile: :bouncegiggle: :teddyr:

I get a lot of clients asking me the following:

"Why don't you have that particular film?"
Answer: It was never given to us to archive and look after.

"Aaag, just put it on a DVDR for me, will you?"
Answer: Sorry, no can do: there is a thing called copyright, y'know?

"Can I cut a piece out of this film because it's all I need?"
"Here's something else you need: a punch and your sign."



Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: asimpson2006 on June 26, 2008, 06:39:56 AM
Well today I had a HERE'S YOU SIGN moment ... (a la Bill Engvall)

As some of you might know I had a HDD die, so I ordered some new ones and they came in today. My wife called me and said "Your NewEgg package arrived today it's in your office, don't forget to go by Radio Shack and get a SATA cable if they have one."

Ok no problem, I didn't order one because the HDD shipping was free and the SATA cable shipping was $5.99 EACH for a $2.95 cable which is insane... I'll just buy one at the store.

OK so I go to Radio Crap Shack (the closest thing to a electronics store in rural America) and the genius working there ask me what I need and it goes like this ...

RS: Hi, help you find anything?
ME: Yea I need 2 SATA cables ... to go.
RS: What?
ME: SATA cables, Serial ATA for a hard drive, like an IDE cable just smaller, looks a little like a USB cable.
RS: Is it for a computer?
ME: No, it's for a '46 Plymouth ... here's your sign.

Anyway they didn't have it, but they could order it for $9.95 each ... sorry I'll go to Office Depot in a neighboring town tomorrow they have them for $2.49. 

But wouldn't you think that if you work at a electronics store you know a tiny bit about them.  Say like SATA, IDE, USB, hard drive and Serial are all computer related ... so go ahead and make that leap of faith I'm talking about a computer.

I used to get all of stuff similar to that when I still did phone calls:

Question: Is Linux a supported operating system for your application?
No, Looks at the help and support site for supported operating systems

Question: Can you suggest a good firewall program?
Answer: No, we cannot make suggestions for what to use

Question: Can you help me with my e-mail program?
Answer: No, we do not support e-mail call your ISP.

Question: Can you help me with my homework?
Answer: No, we are not homework help we cannot assist you with that.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Jack on June 26, 2008, 07:08:43 AM
I got turned off by Radio Shack when I went in there looking for an RCA cable for my stereo.  About, oh, 3 or 4 bucks right?  I walked out with a $30 cable with gold plated connectors.  Got home and the connectors were so small that it took about 20 lbs of force to get them on the RCA plugs.  The guy also asked me if I wanted to buy a camera.  Just right out of the blue. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Sister Grace on June 26, 2008, 08:40:20 AM

OK so I go to Radio Crap Shack (the closest thing to a electronics store in rural America) and the genius working there ask me what I need and it goes like this ...


Radio Shack! Radio Shack! Curse thee to hell...

I can't stand that store. its got to the point that if i have to go somewhere else and pay twice the price, i will just to avoid entering it's lair.

I went there last year to get a cable for my car stereo. I was wanting to connect my mp3 player to the port on the cd player so i could listen to it in my car instead of hauling countless cds. In fact, that paticular option is what prompted me to install that paticular stereo in the car. The clerk looked at me dumbfounded and asked was i sure. I said yes and I got the response "Can you do that?"

As you say, its an electronic store...know something about electronics before you apply for the job. My check book is a disaster; you don't see me applying for a job as an accountant...


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 26, 2008, 09:00:10 AM

OK so I go to Radio Crap Shack (the closest thing to a electronics store in rural America) and the genius working there ask me what I need and it goes like this ...


Radio Shack! Radio Shack! Curse thee to hell...

I can't stand that store. its got to the point that if i have to go somewhere else and pay twice the price, i will just to avoid entering it's lair.

I went there last year to get a cable for my car stereo. I was wanting to connect my mp3 player to the port on the cd player so i could listen to it in my car instead of hauling countless cds. In fact, that paticular option is what prompted me to install that paticular stereo in the car. The clerk looked at me dumbfounded and asked was i sure. I said yes and I got the response "Can you do that?"

As you say, its an electronic store...know something about electronics before you apply for the job. My check book is a disaster; you don't see me applying for a job as an accountant...

Well you know the area and I'll have to go to Office Depot in Murray to get some cables (I've never sat foot in Wal-Mart, not going to start now) The cable that is on the computer is fine, just like to use new ones if there is a problem with a HDD, they're to cheap not to replace.

But Radio Sh!t is a joke at least in the one here, I have to go in there on occasion to get stuff I can't get elsewhere locally with driving to Paducah.  I've even ask them on occasion "Why do you work here? Clearly you are completely clueless ... God forbid a customer might actually need help."
My truck stereo uses a Mini SD card for mp3's so I when by there to get one that they keep behind the counter. Simple right? Wrong .. they didn't have a clue what a Mini SD card was even though they was hanging on the wall. Then they too couldn't gasp a car stereo using a mp3 card to play mp3's. I had to take the clueless employee out to the truck and show them a the card reader on the stereo, it was like they saw a light bulb for the first time. I'd say their reaction was close to the discovery made by apes in 2001 Space Odyssey.

I know these folks are just trying to make a living and pay their bills, but take a little interest in what you do so you don't look like a complete moron at your job, even if you don't like it.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Trevor on June 26, 2008, 09:22:23 AM
Quote
I had to take the clueless employee out to the truck and show them a the card reader on the stereo, it was like they saw a light bulb for the first time. I'd say their reaction was close to the discovery made by apes in 2001 Space Odyssey

 :bouncegiggle: :teddyr:

The one idiot ape of course threw his discovery away.  :wink:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: asimpson2006 on June 26, 2008, 12:33:21 PM
I avoid Radio Shack as well like the plague.  We had a joke in High School about this as well.  We used to say that if you went in there no matter what you were looking for, you would always get asked to buy a cell phone. 

If It's something that I don't need right away for electronics I will usually order in online since I don't feel like driving to all ends of my town to find what I am looking for.  If It's something I need like right away I will usually go to Staples, Best Buy, or another eletronics store that I know I can find something in.
 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Mr. DS on June 26, 2008, 12:51:24 PM
Just once I'd like to walk into Radio Shack without hearing, "Can I help you" in the first two minutes. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 26, 2008, 02:47:32 PM
Just once I'd like to walk into Radio Shack without hearing, "Can I help you" in the first two minutes. 

And every minute after that. That used to make me so mad. I once walked into a Radio Shack (now called "The Source" in Canada  :lookingup:), looking for a universal remote. I went straight to that section and started comparing features, compatibility and price of various remotes, knowing exactly what I needed. But what made it difficult was that one staff member after another was coming up and asking if I needed help. This happened four times.

My response each time:

"No thanks, I'm fine."

"No."

The third guy I tried to ignore, but he just kept trying, so he got a curt "NO! Leave me alone!" (which got me a "what's your problem?" look in return)

And the final time, "If I can't shop in peace, then I'm leaving." And I did.

Haven't had a good experience with Radio Shack in years. I once went into a store, having already confirmed online that they had what I wanted in stock (A power adapter - 6vdc at 1800mA). It was very important that I had enough current. I told the guy the exact model I needed. He takes a half-assed glance at the rack (which was inexplicably located behind the counter) and says he doesn't see it. He suggests a couple of random products not even close to what I asked for, then pulls the old "I don't think we carry anything like that." You know the line, usually spoken in the tone that suggests you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about.

Feeling pretty confident that they had two of these adapters in stock (and seeing something that looked a heck of a lot like the picture on the website), I asked if I could come back and take a look. I picked it up and held it right up to his face. "What's this? Seems I know your store stock better than you do." And, naturally, he was anything but apologetic. More of a sulky "Yeah, whatever" response.

I stopped going to "The Source" shortly before the name changed. It has only turned into more of a generic home electronics and gadget shop, without much for the computer or electronics enthusiast. Radio Shack was slipping that way for years, but now I don't even think of going there for anything.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 26, 2008, 03:15:26 PM
Just once I'd like to walk into Radio Shack without hearing, "Can I help you" in the first two minutes. 

I've got the point to where I phrase ...

"Can I help you?"

I just say "I doubt it." or "I don't know CAN you?"

See "CAN" implies ability whereas "MAY" request permission.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: the master on June 26, 2008, 04:14:44 PM
i have to say the ark of the covendent


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Patient7 on June 26, 2008, 04:18:25 PM
I just say "I doubt it." or "I don't know CAN you?"

See "CAN" implies ability whereas "MAY" request permission.

Ahhhh, that old chestnut, really takes me back.  It's only a couple years back but still.  :lookingup:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: indianasmith on June 26, 2008, 11:24:21 PM
What makes my head explode?


LESTER!!!!! :hot:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Ash on June 27, 2008, 12:16:24 AM
Funny that Radio Shack was mentioned...

I used to work at one years ago.   :buggedout:
It was terrible.  Definitely one of the worst jobs I've ever had.
They automatically assumed I knew absolutely everything about every kind of electronics when I told them I didn't.
Their response was, "Oh, you'll catch on..."
Yeah, right.
Rather than train me properly, they let me go the trial & error route, often p**sing customers off because I didn't know what the heck they were talking about when they came into the store to ask for something I had never heard of.
I suspect the same thing still happens.  That's why some of the guys there don't know their ass from their elbows.
Some are pretty good, though, and have an excellent knowledge of most anything a customer can throw at them.

And yes, I was required to try to upsell the customer some gadget he or she didn't need.
I hated having to do that.   :hatred:

I pondered quitting for days because I disliked the job so much.
I finally did when I left a note saying "Thanks for the opportunity but I can't do this anymore" and literally walked out the back door right then and there in the middle of my shift.  No one saw me leave and I wouldv'e loved to have seen the expression on the boss's face when she read that note.

Funny thing, I went into a Radio Shack (not the one I worked at) yesterday to see about ordering a new battery for my cell phone (Radio Shack is the only store that can get it) and can you guess what the clerk did?

He tried to sell me a new cell phone.  Bastard!


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Sister Grace on June 27, 2008, 06:27:42 AM

Funny thing, I went into a Radio Shack (not the one I worked at) yesterday to see about ordering a new battery for my cell phone (Radio Shack is the only store that can get it) and can you guess what the clerk did?

He tried to sell me a new cell phone.  Bastard!

My dad is a Radio Shack junkey but he hates to be pestered in a store especially with the cell phone pitch.You can always try his tactic for when they try to shove a new one off on you...

When they ask "How about a new cell phone today?" reply with a nice "I don't use cell phones, they make it easier for the communists to listen in on your conversations..."

I watched my dad do this once; now no more clerks rush up to help him automatically at the one in Martin, Tn now. Instead they just look at him kinda uneasy when he walks in the door.  :bouncegiggle:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Saucerman on June 27, 2008, 06:38:21 AM
Scanners.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Jack on June 27, 2008, 07:15:29 AM
In defense of Radio Shack though, the guys at our local one are really good.  You can walk in there looking for some weird battery, adapter cable, or just about any oddball electronics gizmo and they'll walk you right over to the shelf and get you the exact one you need. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: ulthar on June 27, 2008, 07:31:42 AM

In defense of Radio Shack though, the guys at our local one are really good.  You can walk in there looking for some weird battery, adapter cable, or just about any oddball electronics gizmo and they'll walk you right over to the shelf and get you the exact one you need. 


Yup...they are very inconsistent.  I you are lucky enough to be near one with qualified people, RS is a pretty good resource.

Actually, for more serious work, get your hands on their Commercial Catalog.  TONS of stuff in there not in the stores and no pushy sales staff.

On the other hand, many who work there are clueless.  They (the upper management) just have not seemed to grasp that when most people go into RS, they are looking for something very specific - not just "shopping."

I've seen both kinds.  One of the most knowledgeable electronics dudes I ever met was at a RS...but then, I've had to explain what an RCA plug or Op Amp is to some.  Since they are selling a specialty line, they really need some kind of employee training program.

On the topic of clueless sales staff....I recall a few years ago Sears got the bright idea that one did not need to know anything about tools to sell tools.  GAH.  What a nightmare that was.  I nearly got arrested in Sears one night trying to buy a hot water heater because of the clueless staff and how frustrated I was getting explaining to them that "no, I don't need a shorty 20 gallon, I need a 30 gallon upright."  Then they CHARGED me for the one I asked for and loaded the one they WANTED to sell me on the truck.....until I noticed, "hey, that box ain't the right shape."  They got upset at ME for making them take back the one I DID NOT purchase to get the one I DID purchase.

It just should not take an hour and a half to buy a water heater.

Sears seems to be better now, at least marginally.  At least they still do free replacement on Craftsman tools.  I recently exchanged a ratchet that I purchased in 1983, and I fully expected them to say, "nah, we don't do that anymore, especially on something this old."

As I think about this, I think this is a metaphor for our larger society.  Sears and Radio Shack (among other, specialty sales) seems to think you can understand "sales" and sell anything - knowledge of the product line need not apply.  This is similar to how our eduction system has adopted the notion that if you know how to "teach" you can teach anything...knowledge of the subject need not apply. 

And I think this concept is more far-reaching than that.

All I can say is that if this society progresses on its present path, it would be wise for us to invest in a good supply of Duct Tape.  And oh yeah, signs.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Trevor on June 27, 2008, 08:10:26 AM
i have to say the ark of the covendent


 :bouncegiggle: :teddyr: :bouncegiggle: Karma for that laugh!  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 27, 2008, 08:50:16 AM
In defense of Radio Shack though, the guys at our local one are really good.  You can walk in there looking for some weird battery, adapter cable, or just about any oddball electronics gizmo and they'll walk you right over to the shelf and get you the exact one you need. 

Not the one around here, nearly everything is "We can order it!" Well guess what Radio Shack I have the internet and I can order it too, likely cheaper somewhere else and get it faster.
It's really sad as it's one of the really small Radio Shacks that I think they only hire people that couldn't get a job at McDonald's.

Quote from: ulthar
Sears seems to be better now, at least marginally.  At least they still do free replacement on Craftsman tools.  I recently exchanged a ratchet that I purchased in 1983, and I fully expected them to say, "nah, we don't do that anymore, especially on something this old."

I go to actions all the time to buy Craftsman tools, and every broken or damaged one I turn in for new one. After about 20 years I have a lot of tools.

Speaking of tools, I went to Lowe's not long ago to buy a Worm Screw Circular Saw the employee there tried to sell me everything but a Worm Screw Circular Saw ... well I know ya'll be shocked to hear this but I finally snapped and said "YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT A WORM SCREW SAW IS DO YOU? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WANT A WORM SCREW IS ... HOW ABOUT A SAW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS?"
Now to be fair I've dealt with the genius before and even told a zone manager they had no business in tools, they needed to be in something less challenging like mulch. I don't expect every one to know what worm screw saw is, but if you're in tools ... know it.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 27, 2008, 09:31:38 AM
Reminds me of the time I went to Home Depot looking for floor primer. Bought several boxes of self-adhesive vinyl floor tiles to put on the concrete floor in the basement. The instructions (always good to read those) recommended priming the floor, and suggested the manufacturer's own brand, called Basement Proofer, available at the Home Depot.

I walk into the flooring department and ask for a jug of Armstrong Basement Proofer. The guy has no idea what I'm talking about. I explain what it is, and he starts showing me floor adhesives. I explain again that the tiles are peel-and-stick, that the product is to seal the floor and promote adhesion. He tries to tell me he's not aware of anything called a basement proofer ('cause he's focusing one the name and not the function). So, I have to explain that "Basement Proofer" is a brand name. I'm looking for a concrete floor primer. And he's telling me that I just need to peel and stick the tiles, because they're self adhesive. He's never heard of anybody sealing the floor first. Again, the old "I think you're making this up" response. So, I take him over to the vinyl tiles and let him read a box for himself, and that still doesn't get it into his head.

I think what bothers me more than anything is that these guys will not admit that they don't know something. They try to bluff their way out of it and make the customer feel dumb, and I'm sure it works on the average do-it-yourselfer who hasn't done their homework. How many people go away without what they need, and bad information to boot?

Anyway, while all this is going on, my wife, who knew nothing about the technical aspects of the project, reaches down to a bottom shelf and picks up a generic jug of conrete floor primer and asks if it's what I needed. A quick glance at the label told me it was.

So, with a smirk, I thanked the guy for all his valuable assistance, and we took our purchase to the checkout.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 27, 2008, 09:58:06 AM
Quote from: Andy Panda
I think what bothers me more than anything is that these guys will not admit that they don't know something. They try to bluff their way out of it and make the customer feel dumb, and I'm sure it works on the average do-it-yourselfer who hasn't done their homework. How many people go away without what they need, and bad information to boot?

I'm a contractor, I have many people that get in over their heads and call me to "fix" it. I go to their home and I see all kinds of products that have little or nothing to do with their project and I say "What's this for?" ... "Oh the guy at Lowe's said I needed it." so I say "Take it back and tell the guy at Lowe's he doesn't know what he's talking about."

I should thank Lowe's and Home Depot, because their ability to confuse the hell out of customers has made me a lot of money. It cost more to "fix" a DIY project then if they just called a 'professional' to begin with, I'm all for folks doing their own home improvements, provided they know what their doing. I've seen some really costly mistakes ... like removing a weight bearing wall and wondering why the second floor has a bounce. :buggedout:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 27, 2008, 11:23:32 AM
I don't know if Holmes on Homes is available on any American TV channels, but that is pretty much the premise. A Toronto building contractor goes around and fixes botched jobs with his usual crew and subs.

In his case, it's not DIY jobs, but people who hired an unqualified contractor or a friend or somebody else who cost them a pile of money and left their house ready to burn down, fall over and sink into the swamp. Some of it is pretty funny if it's not your house, like cutting into a wooden beam to run ductwork, sealing uncovered live wires behind drywall, plumbing an entire basement without venting anything. It usually means gutting the whole thing and doing it over. In one two-part special, he went as far as to tear the house down and build a new one.

On top of that, he often testifies as an expert witness in lawsuits for these people.

I've often wondered what Canadian contractors think of Mike Holmes. On the one hand, his message is to hire professionals and pay more for quality work. On the other hand, he also tells them to keep a close eye on their contractors, ask lots of questions, and withold payment if they're not satisfied. Good advice, but I can see where some people might not like it.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Mr. DS on June 27, 2008, 12:13:52 PM
Flipping the coin to another store, Best Buy.  I love shopping there and find their staff helpful but perhaps my pet peeve with them is how they remind you over and over again, "we don't work on commission".  I've responded with how I understand that but don't see how its related to the purchase I'm making either way. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 27, 2008, 01:08:18 PM
There is a definite difference between commissioned sales staff and non-commissioned in terms of giving the customer a little breathing room.

Mind you, in some stores, they give you a little too much breathing room. I like it when I just need to make eye contact with someone and they walk over. I don't like it when I have to do a song and dance to get their attention.

What bugs me most is when staff ignore customers because they are more concerned with getting some housekeeping chores done. This is especially true when they're busy getting ready to close, but don't seem to understand that they haven't closed yet. Remember when stores opened up ready to serve customers, served customers until they closed, and did a lot of the housekeeping outside of business hours?

I've sat in a restaurant that just opened (at 11 am), waiting for the staff to finish putting out salt shakers and cutlery on all the empty tables before they would acknowledge my presence. Then I was advised against ordering some items, because the kitchen wasn't fully heated up yet.

I've dealt with the same thing in one-hour photo places, where it's about an hour after they open before the equipment's ready to process film, and they shut it down well before they close.

And my local supermarket, where you can walk in a full hour before closing, and they're already moving the meat into the back, washing up in the deli department, and generally ignoring customers so they can get it all done and leave at precisely closing time. At that point, they will have their coats on and will be practically standing at the door.

Uh, excuse me? You're still getting paid, according to the clock. And I'm still shopping, in spite of your dirty looks.

This is mostly the fault of the owners, who won't pay everybody an extra hour of minimum wage per day to ensure that open for business really means open for business. But the employees aren't helping either. They get into that home stretch, and they don't want customers getting in the way.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 27, 2008, 06:12:32 PM
Quote from: Andy Panda
I don't know if Holmes on Homes is available on any American TV channels, but that is pretty much the premise. A Toronto building contractor goes around and fixes botched jobs with his usual crew and subs.

Yes we get him, I never watch for two reason, no one want to go home and watch "work" and two he's annoying as hell with his overalls and muscle shirts.

What Holmes doesn't tell you is a lot of homeowners want it done cheap first and right second. Often you can tell a homeowner the correct way to do something but refuse to pay the additional cost to do it right. I pass on these jobs for liability and reputation.
Last week a guy wanted a roof, ok great will you can not roof with dimensional shingles over shingles AND he had 3 roofs on there already, code allows 2 standard composite shingles layers max. So I say you'll have to rip those off and it will cost X amount of money.
He says "Aw you can roof over those, it'll be fine."

Well no you can't it violates code and it's to much weight and I refused to do it unless the roofs were ripped off to the decking. So he passed, and I drove by his place on my way to another job and someone was up there roofing it, over the old roofs.

Holmes would blame this in the contractor, and it is a little. But if the contractors wants to eat, he'll do what the customer wants. So the customer is often to tight to have it done right then blames the contractor when it fails regardless of what 1, 2, or 50 contractors said to them, they'll keep looking for someone until they find a taker and then you get some clown like Holmes running around making it look like every contractor is a scum bag and he's the only good one, I don't know Canadian code but I've seen him do a some questionable stuff and I've seen him do extreme over kill too, because it's a TV show and the customer is likely not paying for it.
Bring him down here and I smack his flat top head of his.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 27, 2008, 07:19:33 PM
Having watched the show for quite a while, the message seems to be more that people need to believe the contractor who says it can't be done cheap. I come away with more of a sense that contractors aren't all scumbags who gouge the customers for no reason, which I think is a popular idea. Holmes is usually the one saying that you get what you pay for, and the guy willing to do the same job cheap, without permits or inspections, is someone to avoid. Don't look for a cheap job.

I just find him refreshing because he actually does this stuff for real. Bob Vila used to drive me nuts, having this reputation as a home improvement guru, and all I ever saw him do was hire professionals and get in their way.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: ulthar on June 27, 2008, 07:48:35 PM

a lot of homeowners want it done cheap first and right second.
 

A common saying in the computer programming industry:

Cheap.  Fast.  Accurate.  Pick any two.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 27, 2008, 08:25:58 PM
Having watched the show for quite a while, the message seems to be more that people need to believe the contractor who says it can't be done cheap. I come away with more of a sense that contractors aren't all scumbags who gouge the customers for no reason, which I think is a popular idea. Holmes is usually the one saying that you get what you pay for, and the guy willing to do the same job cheap, without permits or inspections, is someone to avoid. Don't look for a cheap job.

I just find him refreshing because he actually does this stuff for real. Bob Vila used to drive me nuts, having this reputation as a home improvement guru, and all I ever saw him do was hire professionals and get in their way.

Don't get me wrong, he is likely a nice guy with great intentions. He just comes off as arrogant. Bob Villa ... what a dweeb, he's a guys that goes around knowing everything and has done none of it.

Then there is Norm with his $250,000 shop that he uses to make a foot stool. 


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 27, 2008, 10:05:25 PM
Cheap.  Fast.  Accurate.  Pick any two.

That's pretty clever.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 27, 2008, 10:37:58 PM
(http://paulhart.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/good_cheap_fast.jpg)


I tell folks all the time if you hire a contractor and they can start right away ... don't hire them. The good ones are busy.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Patient7 on June 28, 2008, 10:52:17 AM
([url]http://paulhart.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/good_cheap_fast.jpg[/url])


I love that saying.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Jack on June 28, 2008, 06:27:37 PM
Then there is Norm with his $250,000 shop that he uses to make a foot stool. 

Yeah, but it's like a super duper ultimately authentic shaker style foot stool.  :teddyr:


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 28, 2008, 07:44:17 PM
Then there is Norm with his $250,000 shop that he uses to make a foot stool. 

Yeah, but it's like a super duper ultimately authentic shaker style foot stool.  :teddyr:

For a quarter mil, I could go buy a authentic shaker foot stool, chair, table, bed etc. this is shaker country around here it shows up at auctions all the time.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 28, 2008, 10:25:53 PM
I tell folks all the time if you hire a contractor and they can start right away ... don't hire them. The good ones are busy.

Don't get mad, but Mike Holmes says that all the time  :teddyr:

Never got into watching Norm, since I started watching Bob Vila after This Old House. I did get a bit of a chuckle out of Norm basically showing how to make your own knock-offs of expensive antique furniture. Did he ever have a show on distressing, to complete the deception?

That reminds me of probably one of the best duos in that genre of shows - the Furniture Guys, Joe and Ed. They did refinishing and upholstery while referencing old movies, making cheesy jokes and having guest appearances by guys like Al Lewis and Pat Cooper. And if that isn't enough, they did a cameo in Double Dragon. Bob Vila never showed up in a bad action movie. Oh wait, he was in Hot Shots Part Deux.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 28, 2008, 10:55:54 PM
I tell folks all the time if you hire a contractor and they can start right away ... don't hire them. The good ones are busy.
Don't get mad, but Mike Holmes says that all the time  :teddyr:

Oh I won't, I said I didn't dislike him, he's just a tad arrogant ... but you catch me at build site I probably am too. I had the rafter taken down and reinstalled today on a home addition because they were off 1/2". Half inch of to much in my book.

Oh I'll tell you a Holme's show I saw, he ripped out a deck and replaced it, he installed 4' deep, 2' dia piers on a 6' grid then replaced the deck with Trek wood decking ... now I think the home owner said they paid $7K for the original deck the Mikey ripped out, well what the show didn't tell you was he replaced it with the top of the line material and mammoth pier supports you could park a tank on.
That deck would have cost $25-$30K in materials alone and that again in labor. So he replaced a $7K deck with a $50K deck on what looked like a $100-$150K house. Money that if you spend you'd never ever recover and if you own a home you know you never put more into it than you can get out of it or you end up with a white elephant.

That's what annoys me about his show, he does stuff to a house that NO home owner is going to pay for unless they won the lotto. Reality type shows should be realistic.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: ulthar on June 29, 2008, 07:06:45 AM
Forget Norm and Bob and all those others.  Roy Underhill is The Man.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 29, 2008, 10:11:50 AM
Oh I won't, I said I didn't dislike him, he's just a tad arrogant ... but you catch me at build site I probably am too. I had the rafter taken down and reinstalled today on a home addition because they were off 1/2". Half inch of to much in my book.

Oh I'll tell you a Holme's show I saw, he ripped out a deck and replaced it, he installed 4' deep, 2' dia piers on a 6' grid then replaced the deck with Trek wood decking ... now I think the home owner said they paid $7K for the original deck the Mikey ripped out, well what the show didn't tell you was he replaced it with the top of the line material and mammoth pier supports you could park a tank on.
That deck would have cost $25-$30K in materials alone and that again in labor. So he replaced a $7K deck with a $50K deck on what looked like a $100-$150K house. Money that if you spend you'd never ever recover and if you own a home you know you never put more into it than you can get out of it or you end up with a white elephant.

That's what annoys me about his show, he does stuff to a house that NO home owner is going to pay for unless they won the lotto. Reality type shows should be realistic.

Look at it this way, people might not be willing to pay for what he does (with the help of corporate sponsors), but it does give viewers a different ideal to aim for. Instead of a bargain being the Holy Grail, they might try to get as close to that first-class reno as they can afford. Maybe they don't go for the newfangled high-tech roofing material, but they are at least willing to pay to have the old roof taken off.

The show showcases a lot of newer stuff people might not be aware of, uses the best of everything, and plays up the drama. I'd call it more idealized than unrealistic - something to shoot for if you have the dough. Better to spend $100,000 on the best than p**s away half that on something you don't like.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 29, 2008, 10:54:52 AM
Look at it this way, people might not be willing to pay for what he does (with the help of corporate sponsors), but it does give viewers a different ideal to aim for. Instead of a bargain being the Holy Grail, they might try to get as close to that first-class reno as they can afford. Maybe they don't go for the newfangled high-tech roofing material, but they are at least willing to pay to have the old roof taken off.

The show showcases a lot of newer stuff people might not be aware of, uses the best of everything, and plays up the drama. I'd call it more idealized than unrealistic - something to shoot for if you have the dough. Better to spend $100,000 on the best than p**s away half that on something you don't like.

That's a valid point, since I work with these stuff every day I know what products are out there.

The down side to these shows are people get visions of sugar plums about these high end products that they see people like them getting ... until they find out what it cost. Then the depression sets in or they realize they're putting lipstick on a pig.

What I'd like to see that if they are going to run these shows, show folks what they realistically can do. Say they want granite counter tops, but don't have $10K to get them ... well granite tile can be done for $3K if you hire it out, much less if you DIY.

Facts are there are a lot of these shows that show people these DIY honey-dos that really should be honey-don'ts.

Holmes does know what he's doing, but he should do jobs that are economically in line with the house he is doing it on. We can do it these way BUT it will cost a small fortune and your first child, however these way will meet code, pass inspection and work just as well, last just as long for a fraction of the cost.

Folks get unrealistic expectations from these shows and I have to be the bad guy saying "Oh we can do that, you just can't afford it." well I say it nicer but that's what it boils down to.

Soon as I hear the words ... "I was watching HGTV ...." my head begins to split open.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Mr. DS on June 29, 2008, 11:07:10 AM
Public restrooms...why can't people flush?  How do they get sh!t around the upper rim of the toliet and not to mention other places?  What makes companies think the hand dryer beats out the good of fashioned paper towel?


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 29, 2008, 12:50:46 PM
Soon as I hear the words ... "I was watching HGTV ...." my head begins to split open.

I've often suspected that was the case when the newly empowered Holmesian homeowners start quoting second-hand advice to somebody who's been doing it every day for years. I always wonder when I watch Mike Holmes, whether contractors love him for telling people to hire professionals and pay for quality, or hate him for telling people to look over their shoulders while they work.

I suppose it's no different from dealing with a doctor - he's the expert, but you deserve answers to your questions, if nothing else, for your own peace of mind. But it should also be noted that once Mike starts a job, the owners usually disappear until it's done.

Really, I don't watch the show for the building, although I have picked up the odd useful bit of information. I watch it for the demolition, and seeing what these guys find when they start opening up the walls. Some of the reactions are priceless. The first half of the show is always the best.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: CheezeFlixz on June 29, 2008, 08:04:47 PM
Soon as I hear the words ... "I was watching HGTV ...." my head begins to split open.

I've often suspected that was the case when the newly empowered Holmesian homeowners start quoting second-hand advice to somebody who's been doing it every day for years. I always wonder when I watch Mike Holmes, whether contractors love him for telling people to hire professionals and pay for quality, or hate him for telling people to look over their shoulders while they work.

I suppose it's no different from dealing with a doctor - he's the expert, but you deserve answers to your questions, if nothing else, for your own peace of mind. But it should also be noted that once Mike starts a job, the owners usually disappear until it's done.

Really, I don't watch the show for the building, although I have picked up the odd useful bit of information. I watch it for the demolition, and seeing what these guys find when they start opening up the walls. Some of the reactions are priceless. The first half of the show is always the best.

Yeah when I'm working I generally have the homeowner there, looking over my shoulder asking questions (or giving directions). I was working on a Dr. (ObGyn) house no long ago and he kept giving advice and I final said ... "Do I tell you how to deliver babies? Because I've seen it on TV, so I've got to be an expert." He was a wise man got the point and left.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: Patient7 on June 29, 2008, 08:39:20 PM
I regularly go onto a website in which you can play games and if you're registered to you can comment on it, I've always seen peoplepost the same thing several times in a row as if that validates their point, but latley they've been posting these stupid, "post this on 10 other games or you'll see a dead girl tonight" or some other piece of trash.  Stupids.


Title: Re: Thing that make your head explode.
Post by: AndyC on June 30, 2008, 11:03:51 AM
Yeah when I'm working I generally have the homeowner there, looking over my shoulder asking questions (or giving directions). I was working on a Dr. (ObGyn) house no long ago and he kept giving advice and I final said ... "Do I tell you how to deliver babies? Because I've seen it on TV, so I've got to be an expert." He was a wise man got the point and left.

That's good. Not much he could say to that. A doctor and a contractor can definitely relate to each other on that issue.

I haven't had much need to hire professionals, but when I have, I must admit I do hang around for two reasons. In case the guy needs to know where something is, and because I'm terribly curious and hoping to learn something. Usually it's been guys I know, so they haven't minded. Offer them a cold drink, chat while they work, and hand them whatever they ask for.