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I thought I could have a discussion about this in the imdb...man, was that a mistake. The International Moron DataBase is as popular as ever.
So, what did you think ?

I really liked it, I loved the art deco style, the score and Lex's plan. Supes lifiting an island was worth the cinema ticket alone.

Stuff I didn't like was Kate Bosworth who single handedly brought the film down. She was rubbish. Even Singer didn't want her. I could've done without the kid thing. I mean, I doubt many children watched Superman II to understand that bit.

I really don't think much of this movie...I don't hate it, but I don't really love it either.  It's just another case of style over substance, the way I see it. 

Island or not, the whole kryptonite thing is really old, as is Lex Luthor as the nemesis.  The problem with the Superman movies as that he's never been given a really exciting nemesis, outside of General Zod and his crew in Superman II.  Someone needs to create another supervillain for this guy, who isn't completely lame, like Nuclear Man in Superman IV.

I recently saw the animated "Superman: Doomsday", which was basically a simplified version of the Death and Return of Superman arc.  Despite it's flaws, I still found it way more entertaining than Superman Returns.  I really wish that somebody had taken that story, worked the kinks out, and turned it into a live action movie with the John Williams score.  That would be a Superman I'd see more than once.   

I've never been a big Superman fan anyway, and this movie left me cold.  Neat visuals and CGI could not overcome utterly flat characters and a real yawner of a plot.

Super computer generated man...  :lookingup:

You summed up my exact thoughts.  Superman is a boring character in almost everything I see him in, but especially in this version.

I think Indy summed up my thoughts pretty well too.  Flat characters, wasn't even vaguely interested in the plot.

No point of making a Superman movie if he doesn't fight another super being.  Give Lex a rest already and put Supes up against Metallo, or Bizarro, or Solomon Grundy.  Somebody who can duke it out with him.  The part where Supes was in the hospital was drawn out too long.  As mentioned, Kate Bosworth sucked and the kid thing was STUPID.

Oddly, though, where the movie really lost me was when Lex said he'd give up his entire fortune for an ounce of gasoline for the helicopter.  What good would a single ounce of gasoline do when you need to get your helicopter running to fly you back to civilization?  That was really a minor thing but it was the straw that broke the camel's back, as they say.  Couldn't he have said "for one tank of fuel"?

Not to mention the guy who was shooting Supes with that huge super-gun.  It wasn't working so he drew his ... pistol?   :hatred:

I found it ok but immensely forgetable.  Like Akira said, to generate interest they should get another villain to fight.  Thats what made part 2 interesting, keep Lex but put him in the corner.  Let someone else take the reigns. 

Does anyone know of any Superman villians apart from Lex and Zod ?

I too am not overly keen on Superman so could not get excited about this film.


I think Darkseid was a Superman baddie (at least he was in the Mortal Kombat Vs DC game).

I named three off the top of my head, and I'm not even a Supes fan.  Surely the general public would at least know Bizarro.

Superman Returns has it's good points, but it's disappointing overall.

While I like Luthor, and Spacey did a good job with what he was given, I also agree with Akira. Doomsday, Darkseid, Bizarro, Metallo, Brainiac, Solomon Grundy and any number of lesser-known supervillains could be the basis for a good movie.

Solomon Grundy is a Batman villian.

Lex is a great character, but they rely too heavily on him.  Frankly seeing Brainiac, Bizarro or Doomsday would have been great.  Especially if they could have written in a way where Lex is possibly the one to have been involved with them coming in. 

But, on the whole, I'm not a big Superman fan.  I like Smallville, and read a comic occasionally, but I prefer some other characters to him.

If you want to get technical, Solomon Grundy started as a Green Lantern villain. He's fought a few heroes since then.

He lives in the sewers of Gotham.

Grundy's been around since the 40s. He's apeared in a number of places, fought several different heroes, and had his own backstory retconned multiple times. He's considered an enemy of Batman and Superman (I've personally associated him more closely with Superman), but he is a Green Lantern villain first and foremost.

That's beside the point, however. For the purposes of a Superman movie, Grundy would be pretty good. Depending on which story you read, he's as strong as Superman, and just as resilient in his own undead way.

Don't forget Doomsday.  :smile:

You do know a little about Superman, don't you ? Circus  :wink:

I always try to know a little about everything, if possible. I wouldn't post on certain topics otherwise. I've seen all the Superman films and I have a few Superman vs Batman comics from the early 90's, but I've never liked the character.

Really ?
I like the guy, but even I can't be bothered to get Superman IV
Is it any good ?

No, it's rubbish.

You're better at reviewing than Jonathan Ross.  :teddyr:

Just last night I was thinking about who would make a good villain if they ever do another Superman movie.Nice to see we all agree that for Gods sake get rid of Lex Luthor.What the hell was he thinking anyway?So he was just going to have an entire island all to himself and his henchmen and moll?How the hell would they have survived?How would they have gotten power,shelter,food,water,etc?
As my brother said,that idea was "cockamamie".
Anyhoo..Darkseid,Doomsday,the 1980s Brainiac(the robotic one) can't think of any others as I was never a big reader of the Superman titles.

They were supposed to make some weird Superman vs. Batman movie a few years back that saw Batman retired, Clark marrying Lois with Bruce as the best man, and Lex hiring Joker to interrupt the ceremony, thereby pulling Batman back from retirement.

Great for about the first 45 minutes or so and then I thought the movie started to fall apart.

There's also Parasite.  I think he could be decent.  And Gog, and Toyman.  There are quite a few Superman villains. 

I do think Parasite or Doomsday would be the easiest to bring in though.  Darkseid has too much backstory required, though Brainiac could work.

I had an idea for like five Superman movies, but I couldn't write them to make money so what's the point? I don't own the rights to these characters.

I think they spent so much money on Superman Returns ($260 million over 19 years) that they had to do something they thought was safe and conventional. That's why they also had to try to appeal to different groups by making Superman a Christ metaphor AND a gay metaphor.

The too expensive production also must have made them try to make it a fifth and sort-of part 3 entry in the franchise. Lex Luthor is still a criminal mastermind instead of a corporate CEO like he had become in the comics. Also the silly comedy was still there. And Lex is still trying to make money from a land scam. I kind of blame the Salkinds and producers for making this film so old fashioned and boring.

There wasn't nearly enough action in the film. The action scenes were too quick. Kate Bosworth as Lois Lane was so skinny that she should have had life threatening injuries from being thrown around the space plane.

THese movies should really be about Superman's human problems in his life. The world is a darker place and Supes should be facing god-like problems that come from having his powers and his sense of responsibility. The problems that he should have to solve should be psychological since he can very easily do so many things. He has to think more than just being a strongman.

And the kid has to go. He never had a kid with Lois in the comics so that was very silly. Actually because of Superman Returns they may have to start over from scratch.

Exactly. The biggest complaint I hear about Superman is that he's just too powerful. It's hard to give him a difficult task or put him in real danger, and even harder to do it in a way that lets people identify with him.

He needs to face dilemmas. He wants to save people, but he can't save everyone, so the flipside of being a saviour is that he also decides who isn't saved. He wants a normal human existence, but the only way to have that is to withhold a major part of himself, so he can't have really intimate relationships, and he always drives away people he tries to get close to. He's extremely honest, but he is forced to lie every single day. In spite of all his powers, he can't do things we take for granted. That is vulnerability we can identify with.

It's one of the things "Smallville" got right.

It's one of the reasons I like Smallville.  A lot of people slag the show for not being 'true' to the mythos, but I like it a bunch.

I don't care for Smallville. It just seems like another pretty teens with problems. Everyone is too pretty for me to identify with. My brother watches it so I have to sit at the computer and hear the whole thing going on behind me sometimes.

I'm tired of watching teen stars (who are in their 20's by now). Superman has to come into the picture somewhere. The backflips in logic to get these characters on this show are ridiculous. They got a handsome guy to play Doomsday (or he's possessed by him probably-I don't watch this show, I just saw this on a magazine dedicated to Smallville at the bookstore once). Lex Luthor had to be possessed by General Zod because they have to keep the show pretty for the girls watching.

It's time to grow up. It's time for Superman and his universe to begin. THis teen foolishness sold to teens who probably don't read comics has run it's course. It is time for the man in the cape to take the stage and the boy to step aside.

It's also time for a reboot of the Superman film franchise after the mess it's silly continuity has become. A mature film should be made now. No more kid's stuff, please.

I just want an episode of Smallville in which the entire town confronts Clark and says, "Look, Clark, we all know you have superpowers.  You've been using them in plain sight for years now.  It's kind of insulting that you think we've never noticed, actually.  How dumb do you think we are?"

Apparently, Tom Welling, who plays teen Clark, is older than Brandon Routh who played adult Clark.

Well, Clark has been out of high school for a few seasons now. And Brandon Routh was too young for the part, in my opinion.

On the subject of Smallville, I only took an interest in the show a couple of years ago. I stayed away for the reasons Pennywise gave - no interest in pretty young stars turning Superman into a teen soap opera. I forget what originally made me want to check it out in Season 5, but I liked it. And since reruns were airing daily and I was at home with an infant who would nap for two or three hours daily, I caught up on the whole series over a couple of months. The early seasons were very much a teen drama, but the freak-of-the-week format kept it entertaining, and Welling plays a likeable Clark. During the middle seasons, it was actually really good. I thought it was an interesting take on the Superman story. I haven't cared much for it since all of the older characters have gone, however. John Glover as Lionel Luthor was a big part of what made it good. The only thing that's keeping me watching this season is that it looks like they're finally trying to wrap it all up.

What I have liked about it is that rather than portraying Clark Kent as Superman's disguise, Smallville is doing it the other way around. Clark is the real person, and the separate identity he's beginning to create is the disguise, to protect his private life when he isn't out superheroing.

My main complaint about Smallville, at least regarding the later seasons is the "no tights, no flights" rule that everybody is still treating as gospel. Clark has known for how many seasons that Kryptonians can fly? He's had no trouble embracing any of his other powers. He's shown signs of defying gravity from day one, and he's just plain flown while under mind control. He's not afraid to jump out of an airplane and freefall to the ground, or ride an ICBM into space and then reenter the atmosphere. So, why is he still refusing to fly? As far as I can tell, it's because the show's creators, for dramatic purposes, made a rule that made sense for the first few seasons, but now makes absolutely no sense in light of what has happened in eight seasons. They're rushing Doomsday into the story before Superman is even known to the public, and yet Clark isn't ready to fly? And since last season, they keep dangling the possibility that it might finally happen, and then jerking the audience around. That's getting tiresome.