Badmovies.org Forum

Occasionally, I'll read some of my really old threads I wrote here years ago and am appalled at some of the horrible grammar and punctuation I used back then.
I still write badly every now and then, but I feel that my grammar and punctuation skills have greatly improved over the years.

However, one aspect of punctuation has always eluded me.

The semicolon.  ;

I've never quite been able to grasp when I need to use it while writing.
The colon is easy.  The semicolon...not so easy.

Or is it?

Maybe I'm making using the semicolon more difficult than it needs to be.
I remember being taught about it in school, but I've never really used it because I didn't know how or when.
Can any of you tell me the best writing situations in which to use the semicolon?
When would I need to use it and why?

Thanks!

Usually I just use them when I want to separate two different thoughts (independent clauses) within a sentence.  Not so different as to require separate sentences, but different enough that a comma wouldn't work. 

I never use it because I'm scared of using it incorrectly.

I never have been able to harness the power of the semi colon. :bluesad:

I believe the semicolon is used to seperate thoughts; The semicolon is used where seperation by either comma or period would seem awkward.

A guy used to work for me that had 80% of his intestines and colon removed. We called him "Semi-Colon". Just thought I'd throw that out there.

I use it before writing or typing a list after a paragraph of text.

Which is incorrect.  A colon precedes a list, not a semi-colon.   :smile:

I meant before typing a list.  :smile:

The semi-colon acts as a super comma; it is great for separating two independent but related clauses in the same sentence.

It is also useful in separating items in a long list of clauses or complex phrases (when a comma just doesn't seem to be enough).

Example with a comma: This list includes the following: x, y, and z.

Example with a semi-colon: This list includes the following clauses: x went to y; y went to x; and y went to z.

Thank you.

Perfect grammar is THE invisible handshake online!

Well, the semicolon is simultaneously underused and overused. Probably because it is quite tricky.

Visitor Grammar Police actually summed it up rather well, as did Jack. I'm not a grammar expert, although I do research it for every post I write.

Language itself is play. It doesn't matter how you write something, as long as you communicate what you are trying to say. The reason grammar is important is because language also has a structure that we all use. It's a bit more free and lax in spoken speech, because we have inflection, tone and other non-verbal ways to communicate meaning. Most of this disappears in the written word. For instance, if you want to be sarcastic, you have to be very certain of your words to communicate the fact. (Or you can use emoticons, but I detest those.)

The way I approach it is sort of the way you listen to music. You don't need to know everything about music, but you can certainly "hear" when somebody hits a sour note. It's the same with text. Most rules of grammar have to do with the author's meaning being lost in the many ways text can be misread. Good grammar is a way to avoid those.

But like I said, language is play. As an experiment, start throwing in semi-colons in your writing. To expand the music metaphor, think of punctuation as beats. The period is a full stop. An entire beat can pass between one thought and the next. The comma is a quick stop, a slight beat between one clause and the next. The semi-colon is a sort of a "no man's land" between the two. Hard to gauge, but if you think your sentence demands it, throw it in. Why not?

The semi-colon is also a useful way to avoid the overuse of conjunctions. Whatever you're writing, tell it like you want it. Does it sound better with a semi-colon or a laborious use of "and" words?

A semicolon is used to separate related clauses where each meet the minimum requirement to stand alone as a sentence (a subject and predicate). 

No clue. Have you ever read my writing? Comic books do better!

Grammar Police and Allhallowsday have the right definitions. I'm an English teacher; I know these things (ooh, look: a semicolon in the wild!).

Mofo Rising's point is also valid: Written language has conventions because we can't hear inflections or see body language to ascertain meaning. The semicolon is useful to connect two standalone sentences that are close in idea, when the writer doesn't wish to use a conjunction. It shows that the sentences belong close together, but also that the sentences are technically capable of standing alone.

It is an expendable punctuation mark. A period will do the same job of separating sentences, and a comma and a conjunction will do the same job of connecting ideas. In a list, it can be useful when you are using descriptors that require commas.

Kurt Vonnegut, Jr., claimed that the semicolon was useless and wishy-washy, and he never used them. So if you don't like them, don't use them and claim you agree with Vonnegut.

Without the Semi-colon, I wouldn't be able to make the winky-smiley face to women I'm trying to have cyber-sex with.

I don't think ghouck is joking... :bluesad:

I wrote that in my original post.
Would the semicolon work in that sentence?
It would read: "I remember being taught about it in school; but I've never really used it because I didn't know how or when".

Is that correct?

Not quite. Just remember that the semicolon is a bit less than a full period stop, but a bit more than a comma.

Since you added "but," the sentence only requires a comma. If you left that out, you could probably use the semicolon.

"I remember being taught about it in school; I've never really used it because..."

But you could probably just make it a period and get rid of worrying about it altogether.

Correct punctuation should be used to avoid ambiguity. Myself, I think when punctuation is properly used it should become invisible. I also try and get rid of extraneous bits whenever possible.

How awkward would this be?

Myself, I think, when punctuation is properly used, it should become invisible; I, also, try and get rid of extraneous bits, whenever possible.

A bit overpowering. Keep it simple.

Mofo Rising is correct. An alternate version of your sentence where a semicolon is needed might be:

"I remember being taught about it in school; however, I've never really used it because I didn't know how or when."

Another good point Mofo Rising made is that punctuation should seem invisible, only appearing to make a sentence's meaning clearer.

Punctuation "rules" (there are very few hard and fast rules in grammar; "conventions" is a better term) are fluid. That is, they change as society changes them, as do grammar and usage. One hundred years ago, there were definite "rules" about when to use "thou" or "you." As "thee" and "thou" fell out of general use, those conventions ceased. When I was in college, a group of teachers got together and codified all the comma rules in a "simple" form: State the rule, give one example, and then move on. There were about one hundred of them. By the time I started teaching composition courses, that number had dropped to about six.

If you are really interested in learning more about proper punctuation (and hey, who isn't?  :teddyr:), go to a used book store and buy a recent grammar handbook such as The Little, Brown Handbook. Make sure it was published in the last five years or so. It should be cheap; few people keep them after college. Recent handbooks do a good job of explaining usage.

I will see If I can find it. I'm terrible with punctuation.   :lookingup:  Its embarrassing when my 13 yr old is looking over my shoulder as I type and starts correcting me.