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Have you ever done them? I don't care for drugs,myself. I'm an alchi. Not proud of it. Just a fact.BUT back in the 80's-(started in the 70's) I did drugs. LOTS. I did LSD(blotter mostly;some microdot) coke( didnt like it-I like to sleep!) Pot-everyone did it. Ever seen that 70S SHOW? They glorify this sh1t! I smoked a lot in the seventies too. I dont know-makes me weird and paranoid.

So....I'm sure this is a touchy subject-yer experiance or opinion on drugs? Personally-I think perscription mood changing drugs are no better than pot. In fact-they have dangerous side effects. Ok.


And no-Im not high. Just curious of yer opinion. They just legalized pot for sick folks in Michigan (where I live) so it's topical here in Bumf@k Egypt.

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l79/RCMerchant/reefer-madness.jpg)

Nada besides alcohol and that only to a point. My father had a serious alcohol problem; that and smoking definitely contributed to his death in his early 60s.  For me, I like alcohol that has taste to it - something I can enjoy.  Good whisky, cognac, and certain beers that I like are what I drink. 

Please dont get me wrong-I am in NO way trying to advocate the use of drugs. And booze-I guess-is ok for them who dont over use it. I overuse it. Pot-_geez-I think booze is worse than pot. Alchohol has done more damage to my life than anything. Incerdibly-my health is excelent. My spelling-not so much. I been going to AA.I dont like AA. Nice people. But -now heres the weird part-I can say this to you guys-but not to AA-Buncha touchy feely people.I cant do the touchy fely thing. Too hippy dippy. I clam up.

Ew! You have to touch in AA?  I'm not going!

Oh yeah!  They have big Hug-ins and everything.  Not really.

I've done booze (and still do until I can see a counselor and get some honest stuff for my anxiety issues). I love pot but it IS illegal. The day they legalize that stuff, I'm taking four days off and buying every Dorito, Mountain Dew and Oreo I can find.

I've tried acid, but all it did was make me grind my teeth and not be able to sleep. Hated it.

Have no interest in anything harder. I may be crazy but I ain't stupid.

Never tried them and have no interest in doing so.  Not trying to be self righteous, it's just never had any appeal for me. 

I haven't dipped into drugs aside random drinking.  I probably would smoke pot on a regular basis if it weren't illegal.   People tell me now I should do it to "chill out". 

I've never tried drugs, alcohol, or tobacco products. I'm going to try to keep it that way.

I don't have a problem with people around me drinking (if it's legal), but only if they're not acting obnoxious and/or unsafe.

Something I don't understand is when people act and think as though: drunk = fun.  :question:

It's not that you can't have a good time while drinking, but I hate it when people say that you have to be drunk to have a really good time.  :hatred:

One final thought: People always say that kids do drugs/alcohol due to peer pressure.
Now that is probably true, but, it seems like lots of kids would do it just out of plain curiosity. They hear so much about them.  Any thoughts?   

No I never ever did any of them. No cigarettes, booze or recreational drugs. Even before I started calling myself straight edge, I was already largely living that lifestyle. My girlfriend though smokes...sure as hell wish she didn't. But I don't control her...just wish she wouldn't for her health's sake and it's the only thing about her I really dislike.

Alcohol, though legal, is a powerful psychoactive drug, as any doctor or pharmacologist will tell you.  If a drug with alcohol's exact effects were synthesized today, it would immediately be made illegal and we would see a media blitz demonizing the substance.

That said, I love to have a beer or glass of bourbon at the end of the day, or at a party.

Most illegal drugs are just like alcohol: many people can use them responsibly for pleasure and recreation, many others cannot.  Morally, drugs themselves are neutral: it's the way the individual uses the drug that makes it wrong or... I hesitate to say right, but at least not harmful.         

not me, but one of my friends did LSD. He is still doing it, even when the 9 of us try to convince him to stop  :bluesad:

Is your friend a bird by any chance?  :wink:

The good news with LSD is that it's effects begin to lose their power/novelty, and most people gradually lose interest in it after taking several trips.  There are very few lifelong LSD abusers.         

Would only differ with your post, Rev, in this:  some drugs simply cannot be used responsibly -- the most highly addictive stimulants, for example, have very few users who could qualify as "responsible."  (Met any meth users who held down a job and a life for years?)  In that sense, I disagree -- some substances are simply harmful and without ANY redeeming qualities except when used in carefully prescriptive ways.   Some drugs, though, have for most practical purposes no redeeming value.    That's true of some prescription drugs by the way, too.

Well, because it is illegal I'm not saying what, but, yes, I have experimented a bit....

I'll just say I never did anything hardcore.  The one that I did do was a few times in high school, and I wasn't that into it.  Still drink on occasion.

 :buggedout: :buggedout:

Is that where you live, RC? I thought you were a Van Bueren County boy.  :teddyr:

haven't did drugs in years. even then, it was a little pot or acid.  Had to go to AA a few years back. It does help, although the holding hands at the end does bug some people.

That would probably be a good idea, you get a bit stressed at times.  I think you should stay nicely toasted all through the Christmas season  :teddyr:

I smoked pot from the early '80s to the mid '90s.  Good stuff that marijuana  :teddyr:  I prefer it to alcohol.  Now it's just beer on the weekends.  I'm such a law-abiding citizen  :lookingup:

I lost one brother to heroin and another to alcohol.  My father was a drunk for a good part of his life, but then he got religion.

From the time I was 16 until  I was about 30 I drank enough beer to float and aircraft carrier.  Hell, when I was in the Navy in the 70's smoking and drinking were encouraged.

I haven't had a drink in over 20 years.  Never tried any drugs.

I was a heavy drug user and alcoholic by 14. I did everything, other than shooting up, at one time. A stint in rehab, a couple of hospital stays and a few seizures later... im clean and sober.. 15 yrs sober, 17 drug free.

 :smile: That deserves a karma and a hug as well.  :smile:

I'm a baby of the 60's and a child of the 70's ~ I've never smoked anything stronger than a Marlboro or the infamous 'Madison' cigarettes, the latter known as the Zimbabwean coffin nail.  :buggedout:

No drugs for me ~ when my dad and I were watching the re-runs of the TV series Family Affair, he pointed to Anissa Jones and said "See that girl, son? Drugs took her life. Drugs killed her: don't do them, now or ever. " That scared the living crap out of me ~ I don't even take prescription drugs, even though I actually have to.

Alcohol: nothing more than a ice cold beer now and then ~ the last time I had a beer was on December 31 2009.  :drink: Dad had an alcohol problem and I didn't want that too.

I was trying to compose a response, but Indy said it best for me too: "Never tried them and have no interest in doing so.  Not trying to be self righteous, it's just never had any appeal for me."  I had friends who were of the "Why not?" philosophy; my personal orientation was (and is) more toward asking "Why??" and I could not come up with any reason at all.

Sure, there is a spectrum.  Some drugs are so addictive that the vast majority of people will abuse them.  So for "practical" purposes you're right.  But just as obviously, even the most addictive drugs like methamphetamine can be used responsibly: as you say, "in carefully prescriptive ways."  Many people don't even realize that methamphetamine is not a Schedule I drug like marijuana or heroin.  Doctors can prescribe it for narcolepsy, ADD, obesity, or depression.  Of course, when doctors (rarely) prescribe it, it's used orally and in lower, safer dosages than street users would use it trying to get high. 

Saying certain drugs are uncategorically bad is a sort of social shorthand: the danger of abuse for some substances is so high we treat it as if it were an absolute evil.  I can understand why as a society we might want to do that.  But I also think it's more accurate, and possibly more enlightening, to think of the drug abuse problem as a problem of behavior among people and the way they use drugs, rather than supposing that the chemicals themselves are inherently evil.             

Well prescription drugs sometimes can mean the difference between life and death so I wouldn't discourage their use, just their abuse.

Well put, but one thing I would like to add is even if it's not a "life or death" sort of thing, some prescription drugs used as they are intended to be used, can mean the difference between a productive life or a miserable one.

For instance, I take medicine to improve my attention and to keep me from feeling too jumpy. I have ADHD (it might not be called that anymore) as well as other conditions that are improved through drugs.  Without them things can be pretty horrible.

I've only been drunk 3 times, and only one out of those times did i have any fun. The other 2 times i thrEw up all over the place. Its a rare ocasion when i get drunk with my friends. Usually I'll be the only one sober among the pack, and I still mannage to have a great time.

I tried pot 2ice, but it didnt have any effect on me either time, so i said "f**k this". that was a little over a year ago.

Lastly, every once in a LOOONG time, i'll try some perscription drug just out of curiosity. Just 2 days ago, i poped 3 of my pals muscle relaxers, but like pot, it had no effect on me.

Thats really about it. For the most part, I actually very clean.

My ex-girlfriend did alot of pot and did cocaine when she had the dough for it. Probobly part of the reason she's my ex.


My overall view on drugs is this:
There are those who can handle it, and those who cant.

*Those who can, I have no problem with. One of my best friends does all KINDS of drugs at his army base, and he doesnt let it take control of his life or his health.

*Those who CANT, I really loathe. These are the people who break into people homes and steal things so they can make enough money to get their fix. I HATE these people. Also, the people who can't have fun without drugs or alchohol. I pitty these poor shmucks.

*Then there's the type who do it because they're sad. I have a few friends who have done this.
example- I had a few pals who were TOTALLY streight edge. Wouldnt even TOUCH the junk until thier girls gave 'em the slip. then it was all "BOO HOO WOE IS ME" and they IMIDIETLY started drinking and smoking. makes me sick.

Good News, he quitted today and will not do it again!

I'm with Indy and Newt. Never saw the point. Plus, I grew up in a small town, with my father being a deputy sheriff and my mother a teacher in my school. I couldn't have gotten away with anything anywhere anyway.

The strongest drug I recall ever taking was a prescription muscle relaxer to help with whiplash pain. I walked, or rather floated, around about 6 inches off the ground (at least it felt that way) for a couple of hours. I never took another one; I just don't like feeling out of control like that. As for alcohol, I simply can't stand the smell of it, nor the taste. I don't care whether it's in beer, wine, or hard liquor, or if there's just a drop in some other beverage, the alcohol is all I can taste, and I don't like it. A couple of friends who were at least borderline alcoholics have told me I'm very lucky in that. I tend to believe them.

Drugs and myself have a steady relationship.  I can say, I've never done heroin or crack or LSD or mushrooms.

Me personally, used to be very much anti-drug.  But recently, I've delved further and further into the scene.  For me, it's mostly pot, ecstacy, coke, and xanax, but I've tried other things. 

Always said I was never gonna get into it.  Someone asked me once why I tried to begin with.  Two reasons: Curiosity, and to kill the loneliness.

Glad I could help!

Never tried LSD.  Coke is what got me.  Tried it once at a party a year ago.  Since then, it's one of the few I'll buy, if I get any illegal things at all.  Best bet though, if you're planning on sleeping, either don't do it or smoke some pot when you're doing it, or maybe just drink too.  The weed and/or alcohol help calm me down if I have some. :teddyr:

For a long time I was what was considered 'straight edge.'  Never drank, took drugs, etc.  For various reasons, I've abandoned that ship entirely.

I was straight edge for a little bit.  Not necessarily hardcore about it, but never indulged in cigarettes, booze or other drugs. 

That's changed completely, especially over the past few months/year or so.  Perhaps after my birthday this weekend, I shall change, but who knows.  I'm gonna attempt it without any help from others.

Good luck.  You sound like you may be starting to head down a slope you don't really want to go down.  When you say you're using drugs "to kill loneliness..." well, that just sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Drugs wont solve your underlying problems, they'll just mask them temporarily, while leaving you with new problems.  But people do cut back or quit using them all the time.  Just don't let it get too late in the process to pull back.     

HappyGilmore,

The best advice on this would likely come from those who've been down the path of drug abuse and addiction and recovered.

I don't think making a commitment to Straight Edge is an absolute necessity for you to put yourself on the road to recovery. I'm not hardcore Straight Edge myself. I don't tell anyone else what to do or how to live their lives but I will say I've seen drug abuse negatively affect a lot of lives close to me, and it's not just the person abusing the drug but all those loved ones around that seem to be affected by it. I don't think there's anything shameful at all in getting help and trying to get yourself back on track. In fact, doing so is to be applauded. It may even take more than one try but if it gets you leading a better healthier life, well there you have it.

It wasn't a slope I initially wanted to head down.  That's the main reason, but there's other varying factors as to why I went down it.  Hopefully I can get a handle on it before it gets much, much worse.  I think I can, but I won't know til I cross that bridge.

You can do it, people do it all the time.  In fact it's almost a rite of passage: you don't know how much is too much until you go over the line.  Then, you pull back.  If you're physically addicted to something you need medical help; otherwise, it's just a question of deciding to make a lifestyle change.  Again, good luck.

I heeded some advice, and for the time being, am only limiting myself to alcohol for the weekend. 

For me, it's quite a big step, as most weekends over the past couple months, every weekend was spent on way more than just alcohol alone.  I figure if I can just have a couple of beers, it's a good step.

I am at a complete loss.  I did something I never thought I'd do.  The big 'H'.  I don't know where my head is anymore.

I never thought I'd do that.  Should've seen it coming.  Worst part is not knowing if I'm gonna stop myself next time.

I can't smoke anything; not even tobacco. Any kind of smoke triggers an asthmatic reaction and I have a coughing fit. I'd never inject myself with anything either, I hate needles. I wouldn't try snorting cocaine, I think I'd be overwhelmed. From beer to wine all liquor tastes like laundry detergent to me, so I don't think I'd ever get drunk.

The only thing I'm addicted to is white chocolate mocha's from Starbucks.

I'm destined to be a boring adult, aren't I?

Don't panic, man.  You tried it once.  You're not automatically an addict.  You fell down, so just get up and go on with your life.  Don't do it again.  Don't hang out with people who will offer it to you.  Best way to stop it is not to be around it.  Tell your old friends so long.

Sure you know all this, just trying to reinforce you with some positive talk to counteract that defeatist bulls**t you're giving yourself.

I've never done drugs and never will. I cant stand needles and I absolutely hate to take pills. If I want a thrill, I'll smoke cigarettes or watch a movie, dont need anything more.

There is two kinds of people I cant stand to be near: Drug addicts and people with mental disorders. Cause you never know what they are capable of. I knew this girl once that use to move her legs constantly because of the drugs she has done over the years, she died last year.

My problem though? I know where to get it, cheap, and liked it.  Which scares the HELL out of me.  I am an addict.  To heroin? Maybe not yet.  It started with beer, moved on to pills, pot, cocaine, and all others.  I NEVER thought I'd attempt this.  And yet, here I am 24 hours later... :buggedout:

Dunno if you've ever tried Red Bull or Monster Energy...but cocaine's essentially that times about 5.  I've never 'injected' any drug but tried a plenty.  I'm working on help.

Yeah? Shame she passed.   :bluesad:

Rev's advice is good. Stay away from it if you don't want to become addicted. You know that stuff'll kill you before your time.

I'm gonna attempt staying away.  I don't "want" to be addicted.  I think I have an addictive personality.  Knew that from the get-go.  Now I'm dabbling in stuff I shouldn't.

Too bad you don't live handy. Would be cool if we could hang out and watch some movies and wrestling and we seem to have pretty similar tastes in those areas and obviously there wouldn't be any temptation for you.

My personal philosophy is that you should never do a drug that is stronger than you are. That personal line is different for everybody, but there are some drugs that are just no good whatsoever. Heroin is stronger than almost everybody. It isn't an accident that so many people find themselves on the path of heroin addiction.

Doing heroin will put you on one of the most depressing life paths in the world. Imagine taking everything important in your life and replacing it with absolutely nothing. An absolute nothing that you would throw away everything to pursue. It WILL destroy your life and health because, well, heroin is stronger than almost everybody. Of course you would like it, anybody would. It's too strong a high for anybody to handle.

If you're really worried about it, there is one practical bit of advice you should pursue. Avoid the people and situations where you would do it. In almost all cases, this will involve distancing yourself from the friends and social support structures you have now. Cutting off contact from those friends is probably the most difficult part of avoiding falling into the trap of heroin addiction.

But know right now that those are friends you can't afford to have. If you know you have an addictive personality, and you are worried about getting caught up in heroin, avoid those people right now. Stop taking their calls, don't go to those parties. Those friends aren't friends.

Hell, if gets too tough, PM me and I'll send you my number so I can talk you out of it. I'm boringness personified, but almost anything is better than getting involved in heroin. It's one of the worst things you can ever get involved in.

I've never understood the appeal of illegal drugs.  I've always thought it was a stupid way to make yourself feel good.  My motto is: drugs are for people who don't know how to have fun :teddyr:

In my younger days my vices were alcohol and sex.  Now alcohol just gives me a stomach ache and a hangover for 3 days.  Seriously, how ridiculously expensive is it?  Just a waste of cash for no lasting benefit.  As for sex, it's still a wonderful pastime in which to engage but only with someone I love and I actually prefer a sound sleep most times :thumbup:

Okay, now I'm worried I just sound old :bouncegiggle:

It's good though that you can come on here and openly admit that you took "the big H" and not be judged. You are shocked at yourself and you realise that it's something you want to steer clear of. Make sure you keep that little ounce of shock/guilt and this current perspective. I have a bit of an addictive personality too and I also tend to say "f**k it" and will end up doing something reckless. But I know that continuing down certain paths will lead you to nowhere of any particular benefit. Nothing good comes out of taking really hard drugs, only illness, further alienation and bankruptcy.

So, I listened to this today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvJKVKglIRs&ob=av2e
And....I broke down and cried.  Closest thing to the experience I've heard anyone relate.

I've never had an inclination to use after seeing how many friends of mine in high school threw their lives away from it --- literally being moved across states to go to rehab only to return some time later and repeat the cycle

Never had an inclination myself. Think I avoided it for years cause many people in my family are addicted to alcohol and drugs. It slowly started with boozing and pot, then pills, cocaine, and now this stuff. If I could go back, indeed I would.

Happy, the best thing to do is move forward, don't think about going back.  Don't beat yourself up about stuff you've already done either, it doesn't do any good.  You have friends here who are more than happy to help you keep focussed on doing what's good for you.

Remember, no matter what's happened in your life, it's never a reason to destroy yourself.  Don't let the b.astards get you down.  Fighting back and being healthy and happy is the best revenge against those who would see you suffer and and wither away.

I was given GHB, the date rape drug, one time. It was the night Ohio State beat Miami for the national championship in January 2003. My best friend's younger brother, I've known him since I was ten and he was seven, got some at his fraternity and secretly gave it to me over at their parents house after the game, and the thing is, he wasn't doing it for evil intent, exactly, just as some sort of bizarre kidding around sort of prank (he was really drunk and was also under the impression GHB just made you woozy and silly) and then he freaked out about what he'd done and spent the rest of that night walking me up and down the sidewalk, holding me up, always on the verge of calling an ambulance, telling me how sorry he was. It was one of the worst experiences of my entire life. I was sick most of the next day too. I didn't talk to him for a year after that and his sister was even madder at him than I was. I've found out since I was actually lucky to have lived through that and if I'd had any alcohol in my system, I may not have. And he's lucky I talked his sister out of calling the police on him and talked half the guys I knew from stomping him flatter than tin foil.

Lucky that worked out in the end, I suppose. GHB has serious effects.

I don't ever wanna go back.  Ever.  I've sadly seen people I went to school with OD and/or lose their homes, jobs, etc.  Not a place I wanna be.  I hate my job but not enough to end up there.

Bankruptcy is no joke.  I had a good good stretch where I was working and literally had NO money. :buggedout:

So, I've pretty much been up all weekend. Felt like Tony Montana.

I need to find some local clinics, see if I can get some help at a cheaper price. Can't do a full rehab.

That is truely genius.

Anyhoo, since I last posted in this thread, (over a year ago) I've gotten drunk a few more times. Even enjoyed it a little. But Still not worth the headache and the beer-s**ts.  However, I have also grown quite fond of the ol' mary jane. I smoke it when I can and I still remain the healthiest member of my group of friends. I see nothing wrong with the act of smoking weed.


HOWEVER.


Weed has changed my group of so called "friends" for the worse. They were once a bright energetic creative group of people, but now trust wears thin and it seems that everything we do revolves around smoking pot now.

"Hey, lets go to Hooters and get all-you-can-eat wings!"
"YEA!"
"Ok, but we gottta get SUUUUPER baked first, right?"
"Well, sure. Ok."
"Do you have any?"
"....Um, no. I havent bought any in a while."
"AUGH. Ok, well....umm...lemmie call Matt. Maybe he has some we can buy or maybe he'll smoke us out."

Everything we do becomes this big long drawn out thing where we need to hunt down weed before we do anything fun. It drives me crazy. And that's when we're actually DOING something. most of the time, it's the ol' sit around the bong in a basement.

I like weed. I do. I see no problem with it. But some people, not ALL people, become heavily MENTALY addicted to it, and they never are the same afterwards.  

I agree with your assessment. I've smoked off and on throughout my life, although I haven't touched the stuff in years. I have little ones and have to keep things minimal.

That said, one thing that always annoyed me about potheads was that, as you say, every activity revolved around getting baked first. That's where it crosses the line for me. I look at ANY substance as something that can add to an event, but should never be necessary to enjoy the event or, worse yet, BE the event.

I have a philosophy that people can get addicted to lots of things, a drug, a video game, a hot tub, food, etc. When people use such things as an escape from reality, that's when it becomes a problem. Potheads, and anybody else for that matter, need to be able to engage and enjoy life with or without their libation of choice.

If somebody is saying "Ok, but we gotta get SUUUUPER baked first, right?" then it's up to you to just say it: "well no, we don't have to be." If you're going along with the drawn out delays, then you're exacerbating the problem. Time to put your foot down with them potheads, my friend.

Aside from that, no, I don't have a problem with weed.

I knew a few potheads back in my college days. They were nice enough, super laid back and easygoing but half the time, they missed class and didn't seem to care too much when they were there. Of course the majority eventually flunked out and weren't there in year two. Nothing, just nothing, seemed as important as their next high. Seeing them and how they behaved was a turnoff for me from ever smoking it.

you could try and do what I did to quit smoking.........just quit cold turkey

I think I'm much too far to just stop. When you drink and do these kinds of drugs, you really need to watch.

Thanks to a mental illness that can react very badly to any kind of drug, I've never done anything illegal and I have to monitor myself whenever I go on long-term prescriptions to make sure it isn't having a serious effect on me.

I do enjoy a glass or two of something alcoholic once in a while though; I kind of like that sort of bite alcohol gives a drink. It's never had any real effect on me other than a bit of a buzz (and that was when I was trying to get drunk).

Words cannot describe how badly I've been wanting to take mushrooms lately.

I've been wanting to do that too. If it grows out of the ground and hasn't been tampered with, I'll try it at least once.

Yesterday I found a stashed bottle of oxycodone pills I forgot I had.  I actually sat around just staring at the bottle for more than an hour, then I crushed the pills and flushed them down the drain.

If it's not going to hurt you or anybody else, go for it. If it is, please don't.

I'm sorry for injecting common sense into this. Forgive me everybody.

Kira, good call. If they're needed, it's one thing. I took them a few times and felt like I was on heroin, throwing up and such.

I've never done that stuff, nor do I trust it. My friend in the army speaks highly of it, but like I said, if it it didn't grow out of the ground or has been synthosysed in some dudes basement, chances are it's bad news.

Just forget the idea that there are "natural" drugs. Everything is natural because this is the real world. Throw out the idea that that "natural" drugs are better because they were already here.

Drugs are drugs. "Oxycontin" is basically heroin, don't sell yourself that is anything better than.

Yeah.  Hell, most everyone I know starts using heroin after taking Oxy's.  Heroin's cheaper to get.

Oh, DEFFINATLY, dude! I have no arguement with you there. I agree completely! Anything that even RESEMBLES heroin I won't even be in the same ROOM as.

Then I hope you never have to have an operation, then, or get kidney stones or back problems or a severe toothache.  Every prescription painkiller resembles heroin.   :wink:

In fact, heroin should never have been made strictly illegal (Schedule I).  It is not as strong as fentanyl (Schedule II), which can be legally prescribed for chronic pain.

I honestly think demonizing certain drugs over others is the wrong way to look at things.  What matters most is the way the drug is being used (or abused), not the drug itself. 

 

Thank you, Rev. It never ceases to amaze me how refreshing the sound of the voice of reason can be.

Has anyone actually ever don shrooms? The effect seems amazingly awesome. I've been reading up about it.

I'm actually pro the legalization for all drugs. For these reasons:

-Prohibition doesn't work.
-It overpopulates prisons and creates criminals that aren't really criminals because
-in my opinion, every human over the age of 18 can decide for himself what he does to his/her own body. The people doing or wanting to do drugs, or anybody else is not the product of the government, and should be free to do what they want to do if it doesn't harm others. Drugs can only harm oneself, and if I want to hurt myself, I think I should be allowed to.
-There would be an assurance of what you're buying is actually what you want to buy, I'm certain that there's a lot of filthy stuff in street drugs that shouldn't be in it.

     During the 70's, I tried acid, speed, not really my bag. I smoked pot for years, would still do it if it were legal.

     Never tried (or even seen) crack, ice, ecstasy, any of that stuff. I have a forty every once in a while, but I'd rather have a joint.

      Smoked cigarettes, a pack a day, for twenty-five years; the Lord took away the habit, without so much as a craving.

I agree fundamentally. The problem is that the prison industry has become a big business. The last thing prison owners want is for there to be less inmates. They are probably the biggest opponents of decriminalization. They definitely want to keep them prisons filled.

Ah yes.  I had a kidney stone a while ago.  Morphine is your best friend when that happens.  It may alter your perspective when you're basically begging for heroin (the two drugs are practically the same).

I'm not sure what the dentist gave me, but a couple years back, I had all four wisdom teeth out.  Let's just say, for a couple weeks I was happy.

Possibly too happy.  Since then I've since done every drug out there and frankly, I don't like the direction I'm going.

You may or may not hear much from me in the next few weeks.  Long story, but things may happen.

Sounds reasonable, hey.  You can do all the drugs you want, if you just don't drive...   oh, that's right!  Your judgement was impaired and you forgot not to drive when you killed my brother by vehicular manslaughter!  But.. you should have the right to choose to be impaired and to forget that you ought not to drive, I suppose.  It's a free country after all.

And when you're all strung out and stealing aluminum siding off of houses and swiping manhole covers (have seen both of those things done around here), well, I shouldn't worry about the cost of that crime.  And you should get to choose to degrade yourself to a state of needing to steal tens of thousands from your parents to have drug-fueled weekends to avoid being strung out.  I mean, what good are parents without second mortgages?  Tough love isn't love, nope, not in our book.  it's a free country.

And that guy I took care of when I was a resident -- the guy who had been skin popping and his entire rear end was one solid interconnected series of abscesses and fistula... that guy, who needed weeks in the hospital, IV antibiotics, lots of surgery and a loooong nursing home stay... well, I'm sure he paid for that out of pocket, I can't imagine anyone else bore the cost of that.   I'm positive, looking back, that he had 200 grand socked away in a medical savings account, and if he didn't, well, I'm sure he was going to work a high-paying job for several years to pay off his obligation.  Well, maybe the hospital or the insurance companies did, now that I think about it.  But that's them, that doesn't affect me.  Or you.  :lookingup:

I don't agree with you here, because there is a societal cost.  You can try to pretend that there isn't, but there is.  I could go on at greatly more length than I already unnecessarily have.  And my opinion is that for large-scale self-destructive choices like this (not the more arguable ones) -- choices that have NO upside and only large and mind-bogglingly obvious downsides -- for these kinds of choices, if you truly did live in a vacuum I'd agree with you.   But I think that if you really thought about it for a moment, you'd realize that this is not how it really is.

^ Hear hear!   :thumbup:

Many the drugs even render its user unable to even get in a car. You act as if all drugs make one go on a crazy rampage, which is not the case. You want to illegalize alcohol just because there's the possibility someone could get in his car and might have an accident? It's a reason, but a weak one. What they should have installed in a car is some kind of breathing test to see if the driver's fit for the job, which would be a solution to that whole problem. And I do believe that that's being worked on.
I never said thievery was okay, of course not. And legalizing drugs would cheapen them greatly, so that certain scenario about putting the poor parents in debt wouldn't be that bad at all.
It's their choice. Illegalizing all things that don't have upsides is nonsensical. You act as if legalizing drugs is the equivallent of legalizing murder and thievery, which it isn't. Really, most of things you mentioned are overly dramatic pseudo-arguments.

But all that doesn't even matter, because you forgot the most vital thing I've said: Prohibition doesn't at all work. All of those downsides will still be there, but they will be helped, even, to an extent. And the legalization of drugs would have ample other good effects on society.

(EDIT: Also, the fact that drugs are illegal is life-ruining as well. Peeps doing only recreational drugs, not hurting anyone in any way, get the label of criminal, get sent to jail, even if they did nothing wrong, looking at it logically.)

There's stll the question of considerable medical expenses to pay for all those who will inevitably OD and those who will be inadequate in society to function at any job.

Not really, because again, prohibition doesn't work. This would be a valid concern if you thought everyone would start doing drugs if it were made illegal, which simply wouldn't be the case. The large proportion of people wanting to do drugs are doing it, but the majority of people have no interest in doing heroine, et al.

Nothing you posted was inaccurate. Not at all. However, does that mean there is not cost to drug prohibition? There most certainly is. The people have to pay for the enforcement of those crimes, for the corrupt law enforcement agencies that deliberately allow guns to be sold over the border to drug lords, the cost of border patrol, the cost of the prison system that is like a business that very much wants the prisons to be filled with people. None of that carries a cost with it?

Drug decriminalization and drug prohibition both cost a ton. Let's be honest here. And for anyone to say that either one "works" is just plain ignorant. They can't even keep illegal drugs out of a place that is supposed to be tightly controlled like a prison, for f***'s sake. And decriminalization has it's costs as well.I favor personal responsibility for one's actions, always have, always will. I'm for a better approach than what we have now, so if you have one, I'm all ears. Is the decriminalization approach in Portugal perfect? Of course not, but it made things better and resulted in decreases in drug use, and it's a hell of a lot better than this corrupt system we have in place here. Until I hear a better approach, I'm in favor of decriminalization.

It's interesting the straight edge band Good Clean Fun did this song about the "War on drugs"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl-VAh5lKcE

Still I really wonder if the cost might no be too high but then again, maybe it already is...

Flick, your reply is excellent.

My bias (based on no evidence, just what my life experience has been) is such that I cannot stomach decriminalization... Although what you say is true.

I do not have a great alternative, let's be honest.  The addicts I see have many underpinnings to their problems.  It often starts with a disintegrated family unit and a family history that is high risk.  Inadequate and often ineffective social services are applied, and addiction runs its course.   I see a few who recover, and many of those have something to live for.  Many don't have much to live for and they really seem to hit an end stage.

Brutal as it may sound I support the idea of mandating some kind of limit (be it sterilization or a more temporary measure) for addicts who needlessly become pregnant with children they can't care for, and for whom they have no ability to raise in any way except to propagate the curse.  I have this attitude because I am a foster parent for children that the state has taken away from such addicts.

Until we work at the disintegration of social fabric that leads many to use drugs, we will spend exorbitant amounts to poor effect, I believe, either way, just as you say.  But what a problem to try to address!  Few can agree about how to even talk about these kinds of problems.

Pillow, I really don't know what I can kindly say to you, so I am going to say nothing at all.

The cost is high no matter how you cut it. But what irks me is that the prohibition supporters always seems to conveniently ignore that people always seem to get their hands on the drugs, don't they? And so you have the cost of enforcing prohibition combined with the cost of a large number of people still doing drugs regardless. The answer from the prohibition advocates will then be "then we have to crack down harder." This makes a rather huge assumption that we can trust our law enforcement agencies not to be corrupt. If the recent debacle involving the ATF purposely allowing guns to be sold to drug cartels over the border isn't a strong enough indicator of that likelihood, I don't know what is.

I remember writing a term paper in high school about the legalization and/or decriminalization of drugs. Why, I'm not quite sure. At the time I was fairly straight edge and never touched the stuff but was in favor of it.

As I'm older, not so sure, despite current predicaments.

I hear you.

However, here is an area where I will actually propose an alternate approach. The problem is with the adoption process in the U.S. There are plenty of people who want to adopt who cannot have children. So why are so many people adopting children from places like Russia and China? The answer is simple, because child protective services doesn't do what it's designed to do. I don't necessarily have a problem with the Pro-Life advocates. I'm conflicted about it myself, but personally I recognize that life begins at the moment of conception.

Be that as it may, you can't be pro-life and not have a way to deal with addicts or anyone who can't care for child having babies. This country makes it so difficult to adopt American children. So instead, people who want to adopt go overseas. We're taking care of the unwanted children from other countries but not taking care of our own. How f***ed up is that? If we can fix that, then it makes it that much easier to just let the addicts do their thing, not give them any help, and let them kill themselves. But no, I don't think the government has any business sterilizing people. I don't care if anybody calls me on Godwin's Law here, but I'll go ahead and say that's the type of thing Nazi Germany did. No thanks.

Hmm.  Agreed, 100%.

So, I asked my friend to get me some shrooms, but apparently it's best to start LSA, which is basically a p***y version of LSD. I'll probably do that first.

Never tried them.  Don't know if I'd want to either.  Plus, apparently they're really hard to find around here.

Just read up on them, they look very unappealing. I don't think I'll be doing them.

Does anyone have a tutorial/recipe on making shroom tea?

It's the kind of thing America (and much of Europe) did too.  Just feel that shouldn't be forgotten. 

That request is not appropriate for this forum.  Discussing past personal experiences with illegal drugs is one thing, but I am sure Andrew does not want this forum to be used to help people break the law.

I wasn't aware of that that wasn't allowed. Sorry.

There certainly seems to be a lot of use of pharmaceuticals for behavior modification, depression, and anxiety. I'm not on any meds, but I find it interesting, and sometimes disturbing, that this is so widespread. There was a world that existed before the availability of all of these drugs, and how did they get by? This is not a criticism, really. More of a curiosity. There's a part of me that wonders why there is so much of it. I mean, what is ratio of internal and external factors that are making life such that pharmaceutical use to deal with it is so common? There almost seems to be a societal dependency.

My personal opinion is that, if one is an adult, then one can make one's own decisions, and so be it. However, I don't like it that parents are putting their kids on drugs to manage anxiety, depression, and behavioral problems. This bothers me a great deal. I'm not saying that it's never necessary, but it seems to me that meds should be the last option for kids. Kids are not yet fully developed, and they certainly are not legal adults to make their own decisions. It seems a travesty to me for parents to jump onto the drug band wagon to deal with a difficult child.

My oldest son is very spirited. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would say he's about an 8 or a 9. Our pediatrician said he MAY have a mild emotional disability, but it's difficult to tell, and he may just grow out of it, and we need to make good decisions as parents, let the meltdowns happen, and not be so quick to appease him to prevent one. In other words, she said he is so smart that he is manipulating us to some degree. She said that it is extremely rare for a 3 1/2 year old to negotiate, yet he does. He negotiates all the time. So here we have a child who is very challenging, and it is draining to let the meltdowns happen, but his behavior is slowly improving. What upsets me is that many parents would resort to drugs to deal with this problem. The school systems also support this. Teachers don't want to deal with a difficult child, and in some ways I don't blame them, but a child's parents are their only real advocate, and they need to exercise their rights and be parents, and work with the teachers to find a solution and insist that their child stay off drugs if that is in the child's best interests.

That's my opinion. There may be those that disagree with me. My thoughts are, once one becomes of legal age to make all of their own decisions, and they want to go on meds, then that's their choice. If a parent decides to put their child on meds, I think it's extremely important to weigh the pros and cons, and seriously consider whether or not it is necessary. If the decision is based on the child's health, if the child is a danger to him/herself or others, then I understand that. But if a parent is making this decision just to make life easier for themselves, that drives me up the wall. You are a parent. Deal with it. How many kids are growing up having a dependency that they didn't need to have, because their parents were inconvenienced by their "childish" behavior?

I'm sorry. I've had quite a rant here. I'm a bit on edge this week. It will pass. I know there are members here who have stated they use various drugs for these reasons. I'm not judging. Yes, I do feel that pharmaceutical use is too prevalent, and I also believe that the pharma industry stands to gain a lot by a societal dependency on what they offer, so I always wonder how much that plays into such widespread use.

So endeth the rant.

I think you've added some good points there Flick. Also I know a lot of anti-depressant drugs are not recommended for young people and can make their depression and suicidal thoughts even worse if taken.

I've got some anxiety issues of my own, and I've taken xanax for them.  However, due to my own issues with that particular drug, I've since stopped as I tend to over-take them.  They're somewhat needed in my case, but I tend to avoid them if necessary and only take them when I know I'm gonna have some sort of anxiety issue (usually when on vacation or at a funeral, as big crowds get to me.)

I agree with Flick a lot, in that teachers/parents/whomever seem to overly medicate kids these days.  One could say the pharmaceutical companies have a lot to do with that, pushing doctors to dish out meds so they can take a profit, and they nowadays have medications for EVERYTHING.  Reminds me of that Chris Rock routine about it: "Are ya happy? Are ya sad? Are ya tired? Are ya hyper? Can you poop? Can ya pee? Can't poop? Can't pee? Take this pill, it does it all!".

On a side note, I fell hard off the wagon hard this weekend and almost ended up in a hospital around 6:00 AM Saturday morning.  So, we'll see what happens. :buggedout:

I saw some specials on tv recently, on the Current network.  The first was about the rapidly growing usage of prescription pill abuse in the nation, notably painkillers like Vicodin, Percocet and OxyContin.  The sad fact is, more teenagers are using these as a gateway, not marijuana, notably due to parents having them in the home due to the parents having back and knee surgeries and the like.  The problem is, the pills are a synthetic form of heroin.  Once hooked, they buy them from dealers.  It turns to a heroin addiction thereafter, because one Oxy can cost around $80, when dope can be bought for the range of $5-$10.

Having experienced that in the past, it's a bad time, really.

Me again-lotsa inteeligent stuff from you guys-what I expected from you good folks.
My brother Richie just came out from NY-he lost his home-left his wife. I was trying to help him-I set him up with a good freind to try an get him on SSI-he has medical records saying he's physical f**ked somehow (I dunno-I personaly think most SSI reciepents are just f**king lazy). But I got him into a freind of mine-and his-Kerrie.
Now Kerrie is a good woman. Her parents were murdered by meth heads. They killed them and burned the house to the ground. Richie-10 years ago-was an addict. A meth head.
Ok-he came over yesterday. I got hima Stephan King book. He brings a notrious junkie woman with him.
I find out the last week he's been living with my first wife-who is a drug addict.
He aint even trying to get a job,help from SSI..he's slummng off my ex and her junkie freind.
I may be a drunk-but I dont rob or kill people for my fix.

Has anyone ever done mescaline? If yes, how was it? And how would you compare it to LSD?

I've out and out stolen. ie: never robbed a relative, never a store, etc. I work in a restaurant. Seen a couple servers lose money on the floor. Picked it up. Six hours go by, nobody says 'Hey I dropped money, anyone seen it?' Without a word, I Left. Figured, hey, it was on the ground, finders keepers.

They checked tapes but cant figure who grabbed it.

mescaline is about the same high as LSD. Acid lasts longer. both make you crave orange juice. Why Im not sure.
I don recommend either drug for anybody-its very intense-not an addicting drug like meth or junk or booze-its a weird trip high. I know. Iused to sell it to bikers in the 80's. Blotter acid. Mescaline too.
I am not a nice man. I did lots of evil s**t.

While LSD is intense, it's generally harmless. Don't know too much about mescaline but I heard it's also non-addictive. So, don't be so hard on yourself, I wouldn't call that evil s**t.   :wink:

Bollocks! Nobody is perfect.

Selling drugs was only a small part of the evil s**t I did in the 80's.
I was f**king my neighbors wife-I was doing all sorts of drugs-constantly-I was not a person you wanted to trust yer wife around. I was f**king everybodys wife. I was a rude basterd.

F***ing everybody's wife is one thing, but there's absolutely no excuse for rudeness   :teddyr:

Anytime someone brings up acid, I'm reminded of this clip from SLC Punk!:
Heroin Bob (who never does drugs) talks about how bad acid is. :bouncegiggle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvQQW69213Q

I've never done acid, personally.  I'm still struggling with drugs but I stick to the few I've had experience with.

I've been on and off curious about LSD, and my friends who have done it in the past seem healthy enough, but knowing that it stays in your system forever is a scary thought.

It can't harm you physically, it's non-addictive and non-toxic. The only danger is having a bag trip. You should take LSD when you're  in really good mood, if you take it when you are depressed, or angry, chances are you'll have a bad trip.

Bad trips aren't the only danger.  There is a rare chance that LSD could potentiate latent schizophrenia or psychosis.  It also diminishes judgement, meaning you can make bad, potentially dangerous decisions (like driving under the influence).  Also, obviously, LSD is illegal and being arrested for possession and potentially having your life ruined must be counted as a danger.  However, it does not stay in your system forever and is relatively safe as far as recreational drugs go. 

But that comes from a bad trip, I thought? The other things you mentioned, I agree, should definitely be taken into account.

No, as Rev said, "potentiate latent schizophrenia or psychosis". That has nothing to do with it being a bad trip or not.

It means that a small number of people who were already predisposed to mental illness may have it surface after dropping acid.  There's obviously no way to know whether they would have developed full-blown schizophrenia without it but it's something to consider. 

On the subject of LSD and bad 'trips', here's a scene somewhat touching the subject:
Dewey Cox and The Beatles drop LSD, and Dewey has some 'bad thoughts' while in the trip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXtpnmVjieU

Jason Schwartzman, Paul Rudd, Jack Black and Justin Long play the Beatles and John C. Reilly is Dewey Cox.

Also-a lot of so called "acid" is not your fathers LSD-it's made from strychnine.
If you were to do psychadelics-I'd stick with peyote or 'shrooms.

Or alternatively, just don't.    :lookingup:

I have to get help

:(

Don't know what I'm gonna do.

Admitting you have a problem is a big step. Hope you can get that help you need Happy.

When I hit a moment recently that the lyrics to this song hit strikingly close to home, it made me realize I've delved deep into something I never wanted to. :buggedout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvJKVKglIRs&ob=av2e

It's been a few days since I've done anything, but that 'craving' is in the back of my head.  It's a scary time.