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Other Topics => Entertainment => Topic started by: Flick James on June 15, 2010, 02:13:12 PM



Title: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Flick James on June 15, 2010, 02:13:12 PM
I wouldn't label myself as a fanatic, but since I've listened to Pink Floyd for most of my life and have heard every studio album they've ever released and some bootleg material, I would say I'm a pretty serious fan. I even liked Atom Heart Mother, an early album that even the members of Pink Floyd have universally panned in retrospect. I'm curious if anyone who is a fanatical Floydian can explain this.

Someone in Pink Floyd, and I'm going to guess it's Roger Waters, appears to have a fascination with symmetry, or arranging objects in symmetrical patterns. The back of the cover for the early album Umma Gumma shows what looks like a couple of roadies standing next to all of the band's gear, drums, amps, instruments, everything, laid out on a road in a very painstaking symmetrical pattern. In the film The Wall, the central character, after having completely trashed his hotel room, goes into a state of near catatonic seclusion and starts arranging all the debris from his rampage into a methodical, symmetrical layout: broken pieces of guitars, chicken bones, coke cans, etc. It's kind of disturbing, moreso because I seem to have a similar obsession with taking all available objects and arranging them into symmetrical patterns. It's nothing strong, just an faint compulsion that, if I were sitting there with a bunch of random objects, I'll take all of them and incorporate them the best I can, as symmetrically as I can.

If you look at alot of Floyd's output over the years, you'll see that, while progressive, everything seems very neatly arranged and ordered, a strange dichotemy of what seems random, but is very deliberately ordered, kind of like the above examples of taking a random assortment of objects and placing them in a sequence.

Okay, I'll probably get no responses to this and nobody will be able to relate to what the hell I'm talking about. I just wondered if there were any Floyd heads that would know some story or factoid related to this, or simply care to comment.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Allhallowsday on June 15, 2010, 06:27:27 PM
Don't know about symmetry fascination, but I had all of PINK FLOYD's albums (up through The Wall) on vinyl (including A Nice Pair reissue) and have same on CD except UmmaGumma and Obscured by Clouds.  
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/PinkFloyd-album-ummagummastudio-300.jpg)

The REV and I both like Atom Heart Mother, but it has long been disparaged of all of FLOYD's records.  Perhaps this is because it is the most unlike any of their other work before or since.  I don't think it's great, but certainly enjoyable.  In fact, I think I'll listen to it now.   :smile: :thumbup:



Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Allhallowsday on June 18, 2010, 12:34:00 AM
One of my favorites, I love you all:
PINK FLOYD Wish You Were Here      
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/allhallowsday/PINKFLOYDWishYouWereHere2.jpg)


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 18, 2010, 12:30:26 PM
Honestly, Flick, I don't see what you're seeing.

It's certainly conceivable Waters had a touch of OCD, which would explain the scene you remember from THE WALL (that scene didn't make an impression on me).

I think it's more likely a coincidence.  Maybe I'm not a good enough musicologist to see it, but I don't see how what you're seeing in Floyd's music differs from any other strongly arranged and composed music.  If you want to hear real obsessive symmetry in music, listen to Bach's fugues sometimes.  Look at this:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Respuesta_tonal_en_la_fuga.jpg)
(Fugue no. 16 in G minor, BWV 861, from the Well-Tempered Clavier, Book 1)

Notice how the top line repeats the bottom line, but at a different interval to create harmony.  All music is ordered, or we wouldn't respond to it.

Another point is that album covers usually aren't designed by the musicians, but by graphic artists.  Here's the "Ummagumma" back cover:

(http://www.vinylrecords.ch/P/PI/Pink_Floyd/Umma_FR/IMG_0583.jpg)

I think the reason for this arrangement probably boils down to nothing more than "it looks cool."  :smile:

"Wish You Were Here" is my favorite Floyd album!  I do like "Atom Heart Mother," too, definitely more than "The Wall." 



Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Flick James on June 22, 2010, 12:30:57 PM
Honestly, Flick, I don't see what you're seeing.

It's certainly conceivable Waters had a touch of OCD, which would explain the scene you remember from THE WALL (that scene didn't make an impression on me).

I think it's more likely a coincidence.  Maybe I'm not a good enough musicologist to see it, but I don't see how what you're seeing in Floyd's music differs from any other strongly arranged and composed music.  If you want to hear real obsessive symmetry in music, listen to Bach's fugues sometimes.  Look at this:

([url]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9a/Respuesta_tonal_en_la_fuga.jpg[/url])
(Fugue no. 16 in G minor, BWV 861, from the Well-Tempered Clavier, Book 1)

Notice how the top line repeats the bottom line, but at a different interval to create harmony.  All music is ordered, or we wouldn't respond to it.

Another point is that album covers usually aren't designed by the musicians, but by graphic artists.  Here's the "Ummagumma" back cover:

([url]http://www.vinylrecords.ch/P/PI/Pink_Floyd/Umma_FR/IMG_0583.jpg[/url])

I think the reason for this arrangement probably boils down to nothing more than "it looks cool."  :smile:

"Wish You Were Here" is my favorite Floyd album!  I do like "Atom Heart Mother," too, definitely more than "The Wall." 




It was just something I had noticed and wondered about. Floyd's music, especially from the early 70's on, has a higher degree of precision in arrangement and execution that most other rock. Rush would be another example, but I don't care much for Rush, well, mainly I don't like Geddy Lee's voice. Anyway, I think the Roger Waters link makes the most sense. This would explain his later dominance over the band's work and Nazi-like abuse of the stage crew for The Wall tour. I heard a recording of a rehearsal for The Wall tour in 1979, and after a stop in a song, Roger spent about 20 minutes screaming at the stage crew, while David Gilmore could be heard quietly noodling on his guitar and waiting for the tirade to run it's course.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 22, 2010, 01:35:43 PM

It was just something I had noticed and wondered about. Floyd's music, especially from the early 70's on, has a higher degree of precision in arrangement and execution that most other rock. Rush would be another example, but I don't care much for Rush, well, mainly I don't like Geddy Lee's voice.

That's pretty much the description of progressive rock in general (Rush is also considered prog-rock).  You should check out King Crimson, if you haven't already. 

Without prog-rock bands like FLoyd and King Crimson I would probably never have gotten into classical music.  They opened my ears. 


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Flick James on June 22, 2010, 04:59:10 PM
I like King Crimson, and I like very early Yes. However, I can only listen to either for so long. Like Rush, the virtuosity tends to get a bit self-indulgent for my taste, where the musicianship is much more on display than the music. I ain’t judging, to each their own. But Floyd is a bit more balanced in the music vs. musician equation. It’s a fine line, I know, but with Floyd it always seemed like the music came first and the virtuosity of the musician was more understated. With Crimson and Yes and Rush I feel like I’m slapped in the face with what great musicians they are. I respect the hell out of all of them, and wish I had that kind of ability, but sometimes I wish they would just lay back and let it be music a little more often.

I think I feel a new topic coming on.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: dean on June 24, 2010, 05:26:29 AM
I recently ordered a CD online from the US for which I've been waiting for for about a month or even more...

In my package was the Pink Flloyd best of 'Oh By The Way' Box Set.

It wasn't what I ordered, and now I can't get any response from the company I ordered from...  Its funny, since what I received was meant for somebody in Canada, and is worth about 4 times what I paid for.

Anyways, I wonder what will happen!  I'm considering selling it but have no idea what I can do: it's been just under a week since I've told them their mistake and haven't heard after two emails!

Still, I like Pink Floyd so its not a total loss!



Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: HappyGilmore on June 26, 2010, 09:10:18 PM
Don't know anything about the symmetrical stuff, but they made some pretty decent albums.

I can't claim to be an expert, as until recently I only owned Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall.  I've since purchased a few others, but have to check out some earlier stuff.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Flick James on June 28, 2010, 03:03:40 PM
Don't know anything about the symmetrical stuff, but they made some pretty decent albums.

I can't claim to be an expert, as until recently I only owned Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall.  I've since purchased a few others, but have to check out some earlier stuff.


Go for it. However, if you're familiarity with PF is from Dark Side and after, you may find the early stuff a little inaccessible if you dive right into it. I'd recommend going backwards slowly, like try the album Meddle first. If you dive right into Saucerful of Secrets or Umma Gumma you may be overwhelmed by over-the-top psychedelia.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Allhallowsday on June 29, 2010, 05:37:26 PM
Don't know anything about the symmetrical stuff, but they made some pretty decent albums.

I can't claim to be an expert, as until recently I only owned Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall.  I've since purchased a few others, but have to check out some earlier stuff.
Forget about records after The Wall (y'know, like Division Bell  :wink:).  If you like Dark Side Of The Moon and The Wall, I strongly recommend Wish You Were Here; I also like Animals, but it's not nearly so well regarded.  I, too, recommend Meddle as Flick James did.  


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: HappyGilmore on June 29, 2010, 09:57:18 PM
Don't know anything about the symmetrical stuff, but they made some pretty decent albums.

I can't claim to be an expert, as until recently I only owned Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall.  I've since purchased a few others, but have to check out some earlier stuff.
Forget about records after The Wall (y'know, like Division Bell  :wink:).  If you like Dark Side Of The Moon and The Wall, I strongly recommend Wish You Were Here; I also like Animals, but it's not nearly so well regarded.  I, too, recommend Meddle as Flick James did.  
I've since found Wish You Were Here, up the street at the used cd place.  Found Animals and quite liked it.  Also grabbed Division Bell.  Well...that one's not so great.  Wanna get the earlier late '60s stuff that has been recommended. 

Don't know anything about the symmetrical stuff, but they made some pretty decent albums.

I can't claim to be an expert, as until recently I only owned Dark Side of The Moon and The Wall.  I've since purchased a few others, but have to check out some earlier stuff.


Go for it. However, if you're familiarity with PF is from Dark Side and after, you may find the early stuff a little inaccessible if you dive right into it. I'd recommend going backwards slowly, like try the album Meddle first. If you dive right into Saucerful of Secrets or Umma Gumma you may be overwhelmed by over-the-top psychedelia.
A lot of psychedelia?  That's not too bad, I suppose.  I'm fairly open to everything.  I've heard a bit of the psychdelic stuff (not an expert on it), but I like random, random stuff.  I like Zappa and everyone told me I'd hate that. :buggedout:


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Allhallowsday on June 29, 2010, 11:10:29 PM
Happy, PINK FLOYD has been one name for at least 3 different incarnations of the band... and all I mean is SYD BARRETT era (he quit after the first album, his shadow hangs over the 2nd, and at least one entire later album is about SYD)  The Without-SYD period transforms into the classic ROGER WATERS lead songwriting era (and I'm not going to talk about BOB EZRIN or The Wall) and post-WATERS stuff like DizzyVision Bell... and though WATERS' last with FLOYD is The Final Cut, it marks the beginning of the end-phase. 


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: zombie no.one on June 30, 2010, 10:14:39 AM
nearly all Pink Floyd sleeves were done by Hipgnosis, you can see which ones here:  http://www.hipgnosiscovers.com/pinkfloyd.html

not sure how much input the band members had into designing them?
 


Without prog-rock bands like FLoyd and King Crimson I would probably never have gotten into classical music.  They opened my ears. 

do you like Gentle Giant, Rev? my dad got me into them recently, their album "Three Friends" is very classical influenced


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 30, 2010, 04:34:28 PM


Without prog-rock bands like FLoyd and King Crimson I would probably never have gotten into classical music.  They opened my ears. 
do you like Gentle Giant, Rev? my dad got me into them recently, their album "Three Friends" is very classical influenced

They've been recommended to me before, I will get to them, I promise!


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: HappyGilmore on June 30, 2010, 09:06:25 PM
Happy, PINK FLOYD has been one name for at least 3 different incarnations of the band... and all I mean is SYD BARRETT era (he quit after the first album, his shadow hangs over the 2nd, and at least one entire later album is about SYD)  The Without-SYD period transforms into the classic ROGER WATERS lead songwriting era (and I'm not going to talk about BOB EZRIN or The Wall) and post-WATERS stuff like DizzyVision Bell... and though WATERS' last with FLOYD is The Final Cut, it marks the beginning of the end-phase. 
I'm guessing I have to sort of re-familiarize myself with them.  I know a bit of the band's history, but was never really overly familiar with their music.  I'm mostly familiar with the Waters era of Floyd.  I now have about 5 albums, and like them all for various reasons.  Now, after talking to you here, I've picked up: Animals and Wish You Were Here.  Also, I had previously owned Dark Side, The Wall and Divison Bell.

I least liked Division Bell.  I wanna next check out Meddle and Piper At The Gates of Dawn, as both were highly recommended to me.


Title: Re: For Serious Pink Floyd Fans
Post by: Allhallowsday on June 30, 2010, 10:35:29 PM
Happy, PINK FLOYD has been one name for at least 3 different incarnations of the band... and all I mean is SYD BARRETT era (he quit after the first album, his shadow hangs over the 2nd, and at least one entire later album is about SYD)  The Without-SYD period transforms into the classic ROGER WATERS lead songwriting era (and I'm not going to talk about BOB EZRIN or The Wall) and post-WATERS stuff like DizzyVision Bell... and though WATERS' last with FLOYD is The Final Cut, it marks the beginning of the end-phase.  

I'm guessing I have to sort of re-familiarize myself with them.  I know a bit of the band's history, but was never really overly familiar with their music.  I'm mostly familiar with the Waters era of Floyd.  I now have about 5 albums, and like them all for various reasons.  Now, after talking to you here, I've picked up: Animals and Wish You Were Here.  Also, I had previously owned Dark Side, The Wall and Divison Bell.

I least liked Division Bell.  I wanna next check out Meddle and Piper At The Gates of Dawn, as both were highly recommended to me.
Songwriting is stronger on The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, and it's much more highly regarded, but I still prefer the creakiness, and creepiness, of Saucerful of Secrets.  After that, until Meddle (and including Obscured By Clouds which is a bit later and 1972) Atom Heart Mother is the more interesting record (UmmaGumma does include the fanfreakin'tastic, live, "Astronomy Domine" ...)  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0PcY5Ym0TU  

If there are 3 essential PINK FLOYD albums, they are Dark Side Of The Moon, Wish You Were Here, and Meddle  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQvG2SMVl84&feature=related