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Title: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 20, 2010, 12:22:18 PM
Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell 
This may be a first in U.S. Senate politics: The issue of witchcraft has taken center stage.

Christine O'Donnell, the Republican nominee seeking Delaware's open Senate seat, said on Bill Maher's "Politically Incorrect" in 1999: "I dabbled into witchcraft. I never joined a coven." Maher aired the old footage on his show last week. 

"One of my first dates with a witch was on a satanic altar, and I didn't know it. I mean, there's a little blood there and stuff like that," she said... 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100920/el_yblog_upshot/witchcraft-comments-from-past-haunt-christine-odonnell (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100920/el_yblog_upshot/witchcraft-comments-from-past-haunt-christine-odonnell)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iWRw3oZdg4&feature=player_embedded


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: 3mnkids on September 20, 2010, 01:14:04 PM
I cant tell you how much I love Bill Maher   :teddyr:   O'Donnell truly is the gift that keeps on giving. She is trying to out crazy the craziest right wing extremist, she is doing a good job too.

Just an FYI-
Witches dont pray to Satan and would not have a Satanic altar.  Witches are female, males are warlocks.. so, either her first date was with a woman(which would make her a lesbian) or she is an idiot.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 20, 2010, 03:03:18 PM
I cant tell you how much I love Bill Maher   :teddyr:   O'Donnell truly is the gift that keeps on giving. She is trying to out crazy the craziest right wing extremist, she is doing a good job too.

Just an FYI-
Witches dont pray to Satan and would not have a Satanic altar.  Witches are female, males are warlocks.. so, either her first date was with a woman(which would make her a lesbian) or she is an idiot.

The term "warlock" actually means "deciever" and the term "witch" is unisex. A man or a woman can be a witch.  I was corrected by a female witch in New Hope, NJ years back.

O'Donnell dabbled in Witchcraft?  I din't know Ideal was still selling Wedgie Boards...

I used to dabble in Operation, but for some reason, I never could stop myself from touching the sides....(bzzzzt) 



Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Pennywise on September 20, 2010, 06:15:44 PM
Her sitting next to Clive Barker makes it even more classic. :teddyr:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Raffine on September 20, 2010, 07:31:30 PM
New campaign slogan:

CHRISTINE O'CONNELL: YES WICCAN!  

 :smile:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 20, 2010, 10:22:54 PM
I cant tell you how much I love Bill Maher   :teddyr:   O'Donnell truly is the gift that keeps on giving. She is trying to out crazy the craziest right wing extremist, she is doing a good job too.

Just an FYI-
Witches dont pray to Satan and would not have a Satanic altar.  Witches are female, males are warlocks.. so, either her first date was with a woman(which would make her a lesbian) or she is an idiot.

The term "warlock" actually means "deciever" and the term "witch" is unisex. A man or a woman can be a witch.  I was corrected by a female witch in New Hope, NJ years back.
That's New Hope, PA (some say "No Hope").  :wink: 

O'Donnell dabbled in Witchcraft?  I din't know Ideal was still selling Wedgie Boards...
That's "Ouija".   :wink:

I used to dabble in Operation, but for some reason, I never could stop myself from touching the sides....(bzzzzt) 
:smile:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 21, 2010, 11:29:14 PM
I cant tell you how much I love Bill Maher   :teddyr:   O'Donnell truly is the gift that keeps on giving. She is trying to out crazy the craziest right wing extremist, she is doing a good job too.

Just an FYI-
Witches dont pray to Satan and would not have a Satanic altar.  Witches are female, males are warlocks.. so, either her first date was with a woman(which would make her a lesbian) or she is an idiot.

The term "warlock" actually means "deciever" and the term "witch" is unisex. A man or a woman can be a witch.  I was corrected by a female witch in New Hope, NJ years back.


That's New Hope, PA (some say "No Hope").  :wink: 

Well part of Lambertville, NJ shares part of the section of Delaware river that connects it to New Hope. That's more what I was citing.  I dated a Russian girl who lived in Lambertville back in 1994, and it was a stone's throw for us to get to New Hope.  Lambertville and New Hope share the Delaware the same way that Belvidere, NJ and PA do.   Great fishing there too, man-monster catties! I've caught my share out of Old Man Delaware.

O'Donnell dabbled in Witchcraft?  I din't know Ideal was still selling Wedgie Boards...
That's "Ouija".   :wink:

I used to dabble in Operation, but for some reason, I never could stop myself from touching the sides....(bzzzzt) 
:smile:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Mean Machine on September 24, 2010, 03:26:34 AM
Thank god for this.

 I'm for anything that keeps a teabagger out of government and the republicans from regaining contorl of the senate or congress.

 The republicans nearly destroyed america between 2001 and 2007, we may yet not survive the disasters they've created for america.

 Republicans in power are a disaster for the 98% of americans who aren't rich. The teabaggers in power would be a catastrophe that I don't believe most of america would survive.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 24, 2010, 06:43:58 AM
Oh yes, God knows governing in accordance with the Constitution and cutting spending is HORRIBLE for the country!!!  After all, doubling the national debt in just over a year in office is SURELY the greatest thing since sliced bread!

I can't WAIT to see the liberal Democrats who have done their level best to BANKRUPT this country take the woodshedding at the polls they so richly deserve.

And shame on Bill Maher for doing his level best to destroy a woman who was simply trying to be funny on his stupid show.  I despise that man.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 24, 2010, 11:15:56 AM
Oh yes, God knows governing in accordance with the Constitution and cutting spending is HORRIBLE for the country!!!  After all, doubling the national debt in just over a year in office is SURELY the greatest thing since sliced bread!

I can't WAIT to see the liberal Democrats who have done their level best to BANKRUPT this country take the woodshedding at the polls they so richly deserve.

And shame on Bill Maher for doing his level best to destroy a woman who was simply trying to be funny on his stupid show.  I despise that man.
She wasn't trying to be funny, she was serious. 


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Pilgermann on September 24, 2010, 11:49:52 AM
After watching the clip I don't see what the big deal is.  When my wife was a young teenager she dabbled in witchcraft but it was a brief phase; she's been a Christian for a long time, now.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: ulthar on September 24, 2010, 12:39:15 PM
Maybe she didn't inhale...


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Mean Machine on September 24, 2010, 03:27:09 PM
Oh yes, God knows governing in accordance with the Constitution and cutting spending is HORRIBLE for the country!!!  After all, doubling the national debt in just over a year in office is SURELY the greatest thing since sliced bread!

I can't WAIT to see the liberal Democrats who have done their level best to BANKRUPT this country take the woodshedding at the polls they so richly deserve.

And shame on Bill Maher for doing his level best to destroy a woman who was simply trying to be funny on his stupid show.  I despise that man.

I bet you just love rush limbaugh, ann coulter and fox news, all of whom do nothing but throw buckets of slime at anyone who isn't to the right of atilla the hun politically and work to destroy anyone who chooses to be a democrat.

Speaking of liberal democrats bankrupting america, how about that paragon of liberal democrat values, Bill Clinton? When he left office america had a surplus, not a deficit.

His replacement, after stealing the election in florida, republican george w. bush, left america with a huge deficit. As to President Obama doubling it, someone had to stimulate the economy that bush had nearly killed to jump start it.

I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 24, 2010, 07:19:39 PM
Oh yes, God knows governing in accordance with the Constitution and cutting spending is HORRIBLE for the country!!!  After all, doubling the national debt in just over a year in office is SURELY the greatest thing since sliced bread!
I can't WAIT to see the liberal Democrats who have done their level best to BANKRUPT this country take the woodshedding at the polls they so richly deserve.
And shame on Bill Maher for doing his level best to destroy a woman who was simply trying to be funny on his stupid show.  I despise that man.
I bet you just love rush limbaugh, ann coulter and fox news, all of whom do nothing but throw buckets of slime at anyone who isn't to the right of atilla the hun politically and work to destroy anyone who chooses to be a democrat.
Speaking of liberal democrats bankrupting america, how about that paragon of liberal democrat values, Bill Clinton? When he left office america had a surplus, not a deficit.
His replacement, after stealing the election in florida, republican george w. bush, left america with a huge deficit. As to President Obama doubling it, someone had to stimulate the economy that bush had nearly killed to jump start it.
I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".
Let's keep it civil.  Our webmaster does not care for political discussions on this forum, but is tolerant.  I've learned to tone it down and turn it off.  I post news stories that are often political in nature because I think they're of interest, but we must avoid labeling and drawing unwarranted conclusions. 


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 24, 2010, 08:23:22 PM
I just get tired of the knee-jerk hatred that so many on the left exhibit for the Tea Party movement, especially that scornful and derogatory term, "Tea Bagger."  I'm not a member, but I know a lot of folks who are, and they are GOOD people.  Hard working folks who are terrified at what they see as the hijacking of their country.  Many of them are retirees, and a great many that I have known are World War II veterans who literally saved the world 65 years ago from the greatest dangers it have ever faced.  They deserve more than to be vilified as idiots by . . . I'll try to keep it civil here - much younger individuals who have never faced anything more dangerous than a triple espresso in their entire pampered lives.

Now, Mean Machine, I will try to clear up a few things you say.  First of all, I get my news from a variety of sources - MSN.com and TIME as well as FOX.  Coulter amuses me, Rush generally bores me after the first few minutes, and I have zero tolerance for people like Mark Levin and Michael Savage, who do nothing but insult their callers and scream epiphets at public officials they don't like.
  As for your statement - the budget was briefly balanced during the last two years of the Clinton administration - by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.  Since all money bills originate in the House, and Congress jointly controls all Federal spending, that balanced budget (which wasn't really, but it was the closest we've come in AGES) is at best a joint effort by a Republican Congress and a Democratic President.  As for the Florida election, there was NEVER a single count that showed Gore ahead.  Not one. And the Washington Post, hardly a conservative rag, conducted an exhaustive recount of ALL the ballots after the election had been ruled on by the court - and found that Bush won.  Was there probably some voter fraud?  Quite likely, there always is, and both sides do it.  Generally speaking, Democrats are a bit better at it than Republicans, but the usual rule is that voter fraud nullifies itself.  Again, the election was won by Bush fair and square, albeit in a squeaker.  Might I add, the first lawsuit was thrown down by none other than the Gore campaign.  If you don't want the election decided in the courts, then don't file a lawsuit over the outcome!
  It is true that the debt and deficit increased significantly under Bush.  However, in all fairness, the economy absorbed a &600 BILLION dollar hit in the form of 9/11 just a few months into his Presidency.  Then he fought two wars (which, despite all the griping and moaning from the left, were LEGAL and JUST conflicts) and managed to pretty much win one of them before leaving office.  Last of all, don't forget that DEMOCRATS have controlled both houses of Congress since January of 2007 - and THAT is when the economy began to go south.  For most of Bush's term of office, we had economic growth that was DOUBLE  and unemployment abouth HALF of what it is now.
  As for Obama's stimulating the economy - oddly enough, I don't see it jumping up and down, waving its arms, and going "WOOHOOO!" at the moment.  It's about as UNSTIMULATED as a straight college guy in a gay S&M bar! Obama's only operating plan seems to be to tax the rich more, tax the middle class more, and spend even more than he is taking in.  Even as much of Europe backs away from socialism and implements austerity measures, he is determined to spend out country into the economic abyss.
As far as Miss O'Donnell goes . . . I'll cut her some slack on the whole alleged witchcraft thing.  She was 17.  Which of us DIDN'T do stupid stuff at age 17?


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: 3mnkids on September 25, 2010, 02:11:38 AM
I just get tired of the knee-jerk hatred that so many on the left exhibit for the Tea Party movement, especially that scornful and derogatory term, "Tea Bagger."  I'm not a member, but I know a lot of folks who are, and they are GOOD people.  Hard working folks who are terrified at what they see as the hijacking of their country.  Many of them are retirees, and a great many that I have known are World War II veterans who literally saved the world 65 years ago from the greatest dangers it have ever faced.  They deserve more than to be vilified as idiots by . . . I'll try to keep it civil here - much younger individuals who have never faced anything more dangerous than a triple espresso in their entire pampered lives.


The inconvenient fact is they named themselves "tea baggers" and when they discovered the other meaning(when the "left' had a field day at their expense) they quickly distanced themselves from it. Im not saying I agree with calling them that, I dont, but they did name themselves.

My "knee jerk" reaction to the tea party members has to do with their smaller government mantra that they feel applies only to them... The ones that say "keep the government out of my medicare!" They ones screaming about entitlements for "those" people but yet get thousands of dollars in farm subsides. They want the government out of their lives but they want the same government intruding in the lives of others.
Its the whole Eff you, I got mine attitude that so many of them have that p**ses me off.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: ulthar on September 25, 2010, 07:17:06 AM

My "knee jerk" reaction to the tea party members has to do with their smaller government mantra that they feel applies only to them... The ones that say "keep the government out of my medicare!" They ones screaming about entitlements for "those" people but yet get thousands of dollars in farm subsides. They want the government out of their lives but they want the same government intruding in the lives of others.
Its the whole Eff you, I got mine attitude that so many of them have that p**ses me off.


Okay, first of all, that sounds more like 'reasoned position' than knee jerk reaction.

But, where do you get that from?

I find myself agreeing with a lot of the Tea Party rhetoric, and personally do NOT believe the double standard stuff you state here.  I guess maybe there are some that do, but is it really the whole 'party?'

Which leads to another VERY important point...there is not ONE "Tea Party."  That's a name that a number of groups have attached to themselves, so, as with many discussions of this type, perhaps it is a fallacy to paint with too broad a brush in our labels and descriptions of what "they" believe.

As for the "small government mantra," I will say that for my part, I believe similarly to the Founders - that government is good for one thing only, and that is to enslave people.  Freedom is inversely correlated with size and power of central government; yes, you can follow that to its logical extension that anarchy is the embodiment of the highest order of freedom.

In fact, one of Robert Heinlein's best books (in my opinion), The Moon is a Harsh Mistress explores the notion of what his character calls "rational anarachy;" this is the idea that no matter what government exists, no matter what laws exist, each individual is completely free to do as he chooses (and bears the consequence of course)...whether we choose to obey the law or not, etc.

In other words, the illusion of government is just that...an illusion.  It relies on either our agreement to follow or our fear of reprisal if we don't follow.

Now, all that said, Heinlein's characters, the Founding Fathers, those in the 'Tea Party,'  and myself also all agree that SOME level of government IS necessary.  But how much, and MUCH MORE IMPORTANTLY, to what degree should it be centralized?

There's not one single thing the US Federal Government is doing now that I would disagree with on a State (or even local) level; none of the welfare, subsidies, drug plans, medical benefits, etc, etc, etc are an issue if that's what the people within that sovereign wish - Government By the People.  But the problem we have now is centralization.

There is NOTHING in the US Constitution that gives, for example, the people in California the power to decide that the people in MY state accept same-sex marriage.  Likewise, there's nothing that says the people in my State have the power to decide that California have to reject same sex marriage.

The Founders intended, and CODIFIED in the US Constitution that the federal government would have very limited powers and it is the States are the sovereign entity in this nation.  THAT is the heart of the matter.

California can do whatever it wants with the money it collects from taxing its OWN citizens.  I really don't care because I don't live there.  But if I cannot find a community to live in that shares my own values, how can *I* be free?

If my state, county or community is FORCED, under pressure of 'federalism,' to accept the values and lifestyles of somewhere 4000 miles away, how can you call that freedom?  Liberals like to cry that conservatives want to control other people's lives - what they do in the bedroom, for example, but by structuring the government in a one-size-fits-all society, especially one as large and diverse as the US, they are doing the EXACT SAME THING.  Forcing me to accept something I, and the others in my community, don't want in my OWN community is no more free than forcing YOU (rhetorical you) to NOT have it in yours.

And THAT is the fundamental logical flaw in what is modern liberalism.  It is, by its very nature, a contradiction.  Many liberals say "You cannot have it YOUR way, you MUST have it OUR way" while at the same time screaming that it is the conservatives that say that.  Maybe they do.

But some wish for nothing but a return to the decentralization of power so that each community can decide for itself.  Right now, my biggest sadness in political matters is NOT those that disagree with me on specific points and issues, but those that disagree that the content and spirit of the US Constitution, and vision of the Founders, is what made this country great and prosperous...that sticking to those principles will ultimately lead to the kind of freedom all Americans desire.

Sorry so Long...


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Fausto on September 25, 2010, 11:50:40 AM
I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".

Please, lets not associate Wicca with republican values. We Wiccans have an unjustly maligned reputation as it is.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: The Gravekeeper on September 25, 2010, 08:24:21 PM
I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".

Please, lets not associate Wicca with republican values. We Wiccans have an unjustly maligned reputation as it is.

In my experience, pagans tend to pretty mellow and open-minded. Also, I'm pretty sure that the right-wing's tendency to be more open to things like the death penalty and war violates the "harm none" rule.*

*I am very aware of the fact that many people who identify with right-wing parties don't support war or the death penalty. However, people who do are more likely to identify with right-wing groups than left-wing. I'd give high five to those who are truly "pro-life" by not supporting government-sanctioned death in any form, but this is the internet. Physical contact doesn't work well through a monitor.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: ulthar on September 25, 2010, 09:20:59 PM

*I am very aware of the fact that many people who identify with right-wing parties don't support war or the death penalty. However, people who do are more likely to identify with right-wing groups than left-wing. I'd give high five to those who are truly "pro-life" by not supporting government-sanctioned death in any form, but this is the internet. Physical contact doesn't work well through a monitor.


That is a VERY interesting question/statement.

But there is a VERY big difference in the 'right to life' connotation, which is in defense of one who cannot defend himself...a baby in the womb is a far different critter than a person who chose, knowing the consequences, to commit heinous acts against his fellow-man.

To draw an moral equivalence is rather obtuse.

That said,

I identify as a "right winger," and I have engaged in a formal debate against the death penalty.

But in all honesty, I go hot and cold on it...meaning, of course, that my opinion is muddled.

I see the merits of the arguments "for" it, but at the end of the day, I do have a hard time giving government that level of power.  On the other hand, and trying to be consistent with my earlier comments on 'community' and 'to each their own,' if a community decides that's best, well...well, you can see where that line of thought might go.

I support the death penalty in certain, very extreme cases.  I'm not blind to the potential hypocrisy of my Christian faith with that opinion, as well as the irony given Jesus was executed (theological discussion aside).

But I will say that I think it is "over used," or at least overly attempted.

Still, even with that confession of "support," I have a VERY hard time with it.  It's abhorrent, ugly and perhaps the epitome of abuse potential for government.  I think a Ted Bundy is a good candidate, an individual who gamed the system right to the end, but, well, I even in that case I have a HARD time with it.  It's just so, well, "clinical" and "official."

On the other hand, I have no qualms about blowing the brains out of some guy who might decide it is okay to enter my home and attack my family.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 25, 2010, 10:33:04 PM



If my state, county or community is FORCED, under pressure of 'federalism,' to accept the values and lifestyles of somewhere 4000 miles away, how can you call that freedom?  Liberals like to cry that conservatives want to control other people's lives - what they do in the bedroom, for example, but by structuring the government in a one-size-fits-all society, especially one as large and diverse as the US, they are doing the EXACT SAME THING.  Forcing me to accept something I, and the others in my community, don't want in my OWN community is no more free than forcing YOU (rhetorical you) to NOT have it in yours.

WERD. Same with Gun Control.  I get tired of Californians, politicians, The Media and the Left constantly pressurizing lawful citizens who rightfully choose to own firearms for lawful purposes (including in-home self defense)   to give up the 2nd Amendment.  Most of these hypocrites own themselves, and also have bodyguards to defend them. The American citizen also has the right, and the right to do so w\o being guilt tripped for doing so.

And THAT is the fundamental logical flaw in what is modern liberalism.  It is, by its very nature, a contradiction.  Many liberals say "You cannot have it YOUR way, you MUST have it OUR way" while at the same time screaming that it is the conservatives that say that.  Maybe they do.

And if they do, so what? The Right has the right to speak back. Only thing is,  Liberals will (and have) tainted their opponents' viewpoints by making any and all who disagree with them look like common criminals.

Look at the recent tactics the Left has employed:  Disagree with Obama? You're a racist..

Want to keep your gun collection? You're a gun loving, pistol cocking Jesus Freak..

Disagree with illegal immigration? you just earmed your second badge in racism.

And it's totally deliberate. If they can't have THEIR slice of the pie first, NOONE can, and thus the poisoning of said pie.  The heart and mindset of truly spoiled people.


But some wish for nothing but a return to the decentralization of power so that each community can decide for itself.  Right now, my biggest sadness in political matters is NOT those that disagree with me on specific points and issues, but those that disagree that the content and spirit of the US Constitution, and vision of the Founders, is what made this country great and prosperous...that sticking to those principles will ultimately lead to the kind of freedom all Americans desire.

Very well said.   :cheers:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 25, 2010, 10:52:20 PM
I just get tired of the knee-jerk hatred that so many on the left exhibit for the Tea Party movement, especially that scornful and derogatory term, "Tea Bagger."  I'm not a member, but I know a lot of folks who are, and they are GOOD people.  Hard working folks who are terrified at what they see as the hijacking of their country.  Many of them are retirees, and a great many that I have known are World War II veterans who literally saved the world 65 years ago from the greatest dangers it have ever faced.  They deserve more than to be vilified as idiots by . . . I'll try to keep it civil here - much younger individuals who have never faced anything more dangerous than a triple espresso in their entire pampered lives.

HAHA!!!! I love the "triple espresso" comment.   And on that note, I'll defer to the cesspool they call Berkeley, California, but I won't be as civil (though I will try to keep within the guidelines.)

Berkeley, CA. Where rich spolied kids ride mommy and daddy's money to the end of their careers,  and the 30 and 40-some do nothing student base  take college courses in basic anti-Americanism everyday so they can get next to the "hot little hippie girl."

Berkely also hates the military...remember the debacle with the U.S. Marines? Who the hell do these people think they are, to tell our armed servicemen, who protect their lives every day, where they can and can't go?

I'd like to see how fast they'd be screaming for Our Servicemen if a combined Russo-Chinese army landed in their backyards. Then it would be a different story, as their image was suddenly upgraded from "cold blooded baby killers" to "Our Heroes!!!"  Makes me sick.




Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Jim H on September 26, 2010, 11:41:29 AM
Quote
Last of all, don't forget that DEMOCRATS have controlled both houses of Congress since January of 2007 - and THAT is when the economy began to go south.

Well, the economy started going south WAY before anything the democratic congress did could have caused it.  It was basically inevitable, and I'd argue some of Bush's policies made it worse (removal of oversight/regulation in a few specific areas, for example), but it would have happened regardless.  In much the same way a boom was going to happen under Clinton no matter what he did, really.  A huge amount of what the economy does is determined by outside factors and what the previous congresses did, at least that's the way it appears to me.

Quote
If my state, county or community is FORCED, under pressure of 'federalism,' to accept the values and lifestyles of somewhere 4000 miles away, how can you call that freedom?

Can you call it freedom if it's someone 500 miles away?  How about 50 or 5? As you said, it's anarchism or not, it's really just a question of where you draw the line.  I'm saying this basically theoretically, as I think it's an interesting question. 

But as far as states VS federalism, that's already been decided over and over going to federalism.  Personally, I think the states should have more autonomy and rights than they do as well.  But, it appears to me that ship has sailed. 


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Fausto on September 26, 2010, 01:07:35 PM
I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".

Please, lets not associate Wicca with republican values. We Wiccans have an unjustly maligned reputation as it is.

In my experience, pagans tend to pretty mellow and open-minded. Also, I'm pretty sure that the right-wing's tendency to be more open to things like the death penalty and war violates the "harm none" rule.*

*I am very aware of the fact that many people who identify with right-wing parties don't support war or the death penalty. However, people who do are more likely to identify with right-wing groups than left-wing. I'd give high five to those who are truly "pro-life" by not supporting government-sanctioned death in any form, but this is the internet. Physical contact doesn't work well through a monitor.

True, although its important to note that Wiccan beliefs - let alone Neopagan beliefs in general - can vary as wildly among adherents as within any religious group. A popular saying is that you can ask 10 Wiccans what their faith means to them, and you get 15 or more responses. The popular stereotype is that Wiccans are all liberal democrat, pacifistic, tree-hugging hippie PETA members. While I happen to fit at least three or four of those descriptions, not everyone does. There are many in the pagan community who are willing to fight and die for their country, providing there's a truly justifiable reason for doing so (which, once again, may vary, depending on the individual's beliefs) and that they are given the same legal and spiritual rights as anyone else. There are even some paths, such as Asatru (Norse Paganism), that are considered "warrior paths." Although many fight for animal rights, not all of us are vegetarians/vegans/militant PETA members. I eat meat (hell, my first taste of venison was at a pagan circle, a bit gamey for my taste, but everyone else loved it) and certainly wouldn’t judge anyone else for doing so. Animals eat other animals, and we, though we try our best to pretend otherwise, do have a lifetime membership in the animal kingdom. Tree-hugging… if your concept of Deity is nature, then yeah, that goes with the territory. And yes, to be fair, there are some Neopagans/Wiccans who do vote republican, and agree with right wing policies (outside of conservative fundamentalism, that is). I’m not one of them, but to each his own.

(incidentally, if you want to know more about pagan views of military service, read Faith and Magick in the Armed Forces by Stephanie Barner. Its an awesome book.)

I also want to stress the point that the devil is not acknowledged within Wicca, any more than Christians would acknowledge the existance of the Goddess Freyja or any other non-Abrahamic deity.

UPDATE: Not to mention, going back to military service, many Wiccans see enlisting as following the Rede ("An it harm none..."), in other words, dedicating their position to trying to seek diplomatic solutions in wartime, and prevent escalating violence, with battle being a last resort. Soldier does not necessarily = cold blooded killer.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: The Gravekeeper on September 26, 2010, 03:22:58 PM
I'm not surprised that a republican candidate is into wicca or witchcraft. After all, that paragon of republican values, reagan, obviously believed in the occult. His main policies were "voodoo economics".

Please, lets not associate Wicca with republican values. We Wiccans have an unjustly maligned reputation as it is.

In my experience, pagans tend to pretty mellow and open-minded. Also, I'm pretty sure that the right-wing's tendency to be more open to things like the death penalty and war violates the "harm none" rule.*

*I am very aware of the fact that many people who identify with right-wing parties don't support war or the death penalty. However, people who do are more likely to identify with right-wing groups than left-wing. I'd give high five to those who are truly "pro-life" by not supporting government-sanctioned death in any form, but this is the internet. Physical contact doesn't work well through a monitor.

True, although its important to note that Wiccan beliefs - let alone Neopagan beliefs in general - can vary as wildly among adherents as within any religious group. A popular saying is that you can ask 10 Wiccans what their faith means to them, and you get 15 or more responses. The popular stereotype is that Wiccans are all liberal democrat, pacifistic, tree-hugging hippie PETA members. While I happen to fit at least three or four of those descriptions, not everyone does. There are many in the pagan community who are willing to fight and die for their country, providing there's a truly justifiable reason for doing so (which, once again, may vary, depending on the individual's beliefs) and that they are given the same legal and spiritual rights as anyone else. There are even some paths, such as Asatru (Norse Paganism), that are considered "warrior paths." Although many fight for animal rights, not all of us are vegetarians/vegans/militant PETA members. I eat meat (hell, my first taste of venison was at a pagan circle, a bit gamey for my taste, but everyone else loved it) and certainly wouldn’t judge anyone else for doing so. Animals eat other animals, and we, though we try our best to pretend otherwise, do have a lifetime membership in the animal kingdom. Tree-hugging… if your concept of Deity is nature, then yeah, that goes with the territory. And yes, to be fair, there are some Neopagans/Wiccans who do vote republican, and agree with right wing policies (outside of conservative fundamentalism, that is). I’m not one of them, but to each his own.

(incidentally, if you want to know more about pagan views of military service, read Faith and Magick in the Armed Forces by Stephanie Barner. Its an awesome book.)

I also want to stress the point that the devil is not acknowledged within Wicca, any more than Christians would acknowledge the existance of the Goddess Freyja or any other non-Abrahamic deity.

UPDATE: Not to mention, going back to military service, many Wiccans see enlisting as following the Rede ("An it harm none..."), in other words, dedicating their position to trying to seek diplomatic solutions in wartime, and prevent escalating violence, with battle being a last resort. Soldier does not necessarily = cold blooded killer.

Tell me about it. I've tried to explain the basics of my particular neo-pagan group to people, but it's kind of difficult when you have to point out that the basics of those beliefs fall into two very broad groups depending on which branch you learned from, to say nothing of the fact that the beliefs and practices very not just from grove to grove but from person to person. It gets even more confusing to followers of more organized religions when you try to explain that there is no head of the group, no holy book, and no one who will spoon-feed you answers since our general philosophy is that it's up to the individual to form a connection to the divine and that said connection will be very personal and unique to the individual.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 26, 2010, 03:28:24 PM
interesting comments all.  I might add that the person Ms. O'Donnell was talking about was a teenager and a goth, none of which means he was a Wiccan.  Don't Satanists also claim to be "witches" sometimes?  Honestly, if he was like a lot of angry, rebellious teenagers, his belief system was probably centered around whatever was most likely to make his parents' heads explode.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 26, 2010, 03:39:56 PM
UPDATE: Not to mention, going back to military service, many Wiccans see enlisting as following the Rede ("An it harm none..."), in other words, dedicating their position to trying to seek diplomatic solutions in wartime, and prevent escalating violence, with battle being a last resort. Soldier does not necessarily = cold blooded killer.

This is what the accusers don't understand. Soldiers do NOT have the option to just
"quit their job" and\or sign a discipline slip.  They have no say over where they go, or what they have to do, including war.  They have to do what they are told, with severe penalties for refusal.

This does not mean they all agree with what they do. And it also dosen't mean they are hypocritical for complaining about a job they KNEW they might have do when they signed up.  Like any job, complaints come with it.

America, like any other country, has her own natural enemies (those who pre-meditatively sought to do us harm from the start) as well as those made by our actions and political practices.   And regardless of those 2 schools, our servicemen and women are here to protect us, period.

And they are to be respected above all others, for doing things in the name of freedom ordinary people don't have to do, because they are out doing it for all of us.



Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: The Gravekeeper on September 26, 2010, 04:37:50 PM
interesting comments all.  I might add that the person Ms. O'Donnell was talking about was a teenager and a goth, none of which means he was a Wiccan.  Don't Satanists also claim to be "witches" sometimes?  Honestly, if he was like a lot of angry, rebellious teenagers, his belief system was probably centered around whatever was most likely to make his parents' heads explode.

Yeah, that's pretty much how most teenage "conversions" go. Once in a blue moon they actually mean it and really do believe in it, but it's usually safe to take a teen's claim that they've converted to Wicca or Satanism or whatever with a grain of salt. I'd imagine that it's kind of annoying to have people assume that you chose your spirituality solely as a weak attempt to rebel against your parents.

@Fausto

Soldiers are people, too. Of course they don't necessarily agree with what they do all the time, but the possibility of participating in a war is kind of part of the job. I respect men and women in uniform, certainly, but I don't necessarily agree with what they're sometimes told to do. However, I'd like to point out that military service isn't the only way to serve your country. It's more than possible to serve your country by being a diplomat, for example. Or you could raise awareness about an internal issue that often gets overlooked.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: ulthar on September 26, 2010, 06:06:46 PM

Can you call it freedom if it's someone 500 miles away?  How about 50 or 5? As you said, it's anarchism or not, it's really just a question of where you draw the line.  I'm saying this basically theoretically, as I think it's an interesting question. 


Well, to clarify, I think that the 'closer' the seat of power is, the better for all individuals within that sphere.  It's far easier to get 50 people to agree on things than 500, etc.  By extension, its far easier to get people within a 5 mile circle to agree on their rules/values than a 500 mile circle.

This is why I choose to use the term "community;"  I prefer a strong-State to a strong-Fed, but even better, bring the real power down to the county, or even neighborhood.   The fundamental point, though is freedom of movement between 'spheres' so that one can find a community that 'best fits.'

This is not to say that the 'best fit' has to be 100% agreement.  But it FAR more difficult for a decision maker to be irresponsible when he has to look the people in the eye, or eat at their homes, or have their son date his daughter, etc.  Does Obama (or Bush, or Clinton, etc) care one whit about ME and my family?  No, we are simply statistics to them, part of some average demographic.

I belong the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, one of the most splintered and diverse Protestant groups in the US.  We are, to me, an amazing organization.  That we can be so diverse in so many matters, and even individual congregations carry a large diversity, and still 'come together' is a fascinating study in my concept of "community."  So, no, I don't think everyone within my sphere has to think 100% like, but make the groups (and goals) small enough to be cohesive and VERY personal, and the dynamics change dramatically.

Quote

But as far as states VS federalism, that's already been decided over and over going to federalism.  Personally, I think the states should have more autonomy and rights than they do as well.  But, it appears to me that ship has sailed. 


Hmm, maybe, but maybe not.  History of the future (??, I hope you know what I mean by that) is not settled - we continue to make it.  I wonder if we, as a species, might continue to explore this and get better at it next, and even better at it the time after that, etc.

The next "great experiment" in government will have the history of the US to look at to see what was right vs what was wrong.  Who knows?


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Mean Machine on September 26, 2010, 08:19:53 PM
I just get tired of the knee-jerk hatred that so many on the left exhibit for the Tea Party movement, especially that scornful and derogatory term, "Tea Bagger."  I'm not a member, but I know a lot of folks who are, and they are GOOD people.  Hard working folks who are terrified at what they see as the hijacking of their country.  Many of them are retirees, and a great many that I have known are World War II veterans who literally saved the world 65 years ago from the greatest dangers it have ever faced.  They deserve more than to be vilified as idiots by . . . I'll try to keep it civil here - much younger individuals who have never faced anything more dangerous than a triple espresso in their entire pampered lives.

Now, Mean Machine, I will try to clear up a few things you say.  First of all, I get my news from a variety of sources - MSN.com and TIME as well as FOX.  Coulter amuses me, Rush generally bores me after the first few minutes, and I have zero tolerance for people like Mark Levin and Michael Savage, who do nothing but insult their callers and scream epiphets at public officials they don't like.
  As for your statement - the budget was briefly balanced during the last two years of the Clinton administration - by a REPUBLICAN CONGRESS.  Since all money bills originate in the House, and Congress jointly controls all Federal spending, that balanced budget (which wasn't really, but it was the closest we've come in AGES) is at best a joint effort by a Republican Congress and a Democratic President.  As for the Florida election, there was NEVER a single count that showed Gore ahead.  Not one. And the Washington Post, hardly a conservative rag, conducted an exhaustive recount of ALL the ballots after the election had been ruled on by the court - and found that Bush won.  Was there probably some voter fraud?  Quite likely, there always is, and both sides do it.  Generally speaking, Democrats are a bit better at it than Republicans, but the usual rule is that voter fraud nullifies itself.  Again, the election was won by Bush fair and square, albeit in a squeaker.  Might I add, the first lawsuit was thrown down by none other than the Gore campaign.  If you don't want the election decided in the courts, then don't file a lawsuit over the outcome!
  It is true that the debt and deficit increased significantly under Bush.  However, in all fairness, the economy absorbed a &600 BILLION dollar hit in the form of 9/11 just a few months into his Presidency.  Then he fought two wars (which, despite all the griping and moaning from the left, were LEGAL and JUST conflicts) and managed to pretty much win one of them before leaving office.  Last of all, don't forget that DEMOCRATS have controlled both houses of Congress since January of 2007 - and THAT is when the economy began to go south.  For most of Bush's term of office, we had economic growth that was DOUBLE  and unemployment abouth HALF of what it is now.
  As for Obama's stimulating the economy - oddly enough, I don't see it jumping up and down, waving its arms, and going "WOOHOOO!" at the moment.  It's about as UNSTIMULATED as a straight college guy in a gay S&M bar! Obama's only operating plan seems to be to tax the rich more, tax the middle class more, and spend even more than he is taking in.  Even as much of Europe backs away from socialism and implements austerity measures, he is determined to spend out country into the economic abyss.
As far as Miss O'Donnell goes . . . I'll cut her some slack on the whole alleged witchcraft thing.  She was 17.  Which of us DIDN'T do stupid stuff at age 17?


Let's talk about some of these issues.

As to hating the far right, I am indeed guilty as charged. I hate the far, radical right and make no apologies for it.

Is it "knee jerk" hate? Well, let's see if I actually have reason to hate the right or is it a "knee jerk" response.

When bill clinton was elected president, the far right went into a frenzy, vowing to spend the next four years making him miserable, hounding him constantly and initiating  every measure possible to cripple his presidency, despite the fact the he won the election.

They pulled their little shutdown of the federal government, they unleashed ken starr's inquisition on him, they finaly had their little impeachment all because they didn't get their way in the 22 or 96 elections, essentially trying every dirty little trick they could to over turn democracy and defeat the will of the american voter when it didn't go their way. I remember the commercials urging president clinton to "Resign now" to space america the embarrassment of the republican impeachment.

Then we had DUHHHHbya who didn't even win the election, since gore got about 500,000 more votes than he did, but the far right expected us to all fall in line behind their president and if we didn't we were traitors and unamerican.

Now we have another democrat in office, and once aain the far right is at it, with their cries for "Impeachment" and "kenyan birth" ane "OMAMA IS HITLER!!!". Now they're talking about armed uprisings and revoltutions or secessions if they don't get their way.

I see them walking around in their "SPAY AND NEUTER LIBERALS! Partnership for a liberal free america" shirts. I see them threatening to shoot elected lawmakers who vote for healthcare reform.


I see sharon angle talking about conservatives having to pick up guns if they don't retake congress and how someone needs to "take out harry reid".

Damn right I hate them. I'd like to beat the far right to a bloody pulp, personally, for their refusal to accept an election that doesn't go their way and their demand that everyone follow their president when one gets elected.  I'd like to stomp the far right's collective face in for deciding to sabotage and overthrow democracy when it doesn't go their way, and I make no apologies for it.

I actually hope they try pulling some sort of revolt just to see them crushed and the survivors imprisoned.

So yes I hate the far right, and I don't consider it to be a "knee jerk" hatred but rather a  well founded hate for arrogant hypocrites who want to basically overthrow democracy and impose a far right conservative chrsitan dictatroship on america and me.

As for "knee jerk" hate, look at how the teabaggers automatically hate anyone on the left and compare them to hitler, the beast, etc.

Seems to me that the knee jerk hate is mostly a far right thing, the well founded hate is more something the left has for the people who seem to want to turn america into a christian conservative theocratic dictatorship where only the christian conservatives can run, be elected, have power, etc.

PS apologies to wiccans, they really are nice and reasonable compared to the teabaggers like O'Donnell.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: ulthar on September 26, 2010, 08:27:42 PM
How do we go from respectful discourse to this crap.   :thumbdown:

We have an otherwise respectful, informative (I like to hear from the Wiccan's about their faith, it is something I know very little about from genuine sources) and INTERESTING discussion.  What happens to that good discussion  when we get:

Quote

As to hating the far right, I am indeed guilty as charged. I hate the far, radical right and make no apologies for it.

...

Damn right I hate them. I'd like to beat the far right to a bloody pulp

...

I'd like to stomp the far right's collective face in

...

So yes I hate the far right, and I don't consider it to be a "knee jerk" hatred but rather a  well founded hate


One thing I will agree with you upon, Mr. Mean Machine...you ARE full of hate.

Which makes one of your last comments almost laughable:

Quote

Seems to me that the knee jerk hate is mostly a far right thing


Like I put above...   :thumbdown:



Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: flackbait on September 26, 2010, 08:42:36 PM
UPDATE: Not to mention, going back to military service, many Wiccans see enlisting as following the Rede ("An it harm none..."), in other words, dedicating their position to trying to seek diplomatic solutions in wartime, and prevent escalating violence, with battle being a last resort. Soldier does not necessarily = cold blooded killer.

This is what the accusers don't understand. Soldiers do NOT have the option to just
"quit their job" and\or sign a discipline slip.  They have no say over where they go, or what they have to do, including war.  They have to do what they are told, with severe penalties for refusal.

This does not mean they all agree with what they do. And it also dosen't mean they are hypocritical for complaining about a job they KNEW they might have do when they signed up.  Like any job, complaints come with it.

America, like any other country, has her own natural enemies (those who pre-meditatively sought to do us harm from the start) as well as those made by our actions and political practices.   And regardless of those 2 schools, our servicemen and women are here to protect us, period.

And they are to be respected above all others, for doing things in the name of freedom ordinary people don't have to do, because they are out doing it for all of us.


If you are given an illegal order your supposed to refuse it.  For example if your commanding officer tells you to do something that violates the geneva convention or its consider treasonus you are obligated not to follow it.



Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 26, 2010, 10:11:42 PM
UPDATE: Not to mention, going back to military service, many Wiccans see enlisting as following the Rede ("An it harm none..."), in other words, dedicating their position to trying to seek diplomatic solutions in wartime, and prevent escalating violence, with battle being a last resort. Soldier does not necessarily = cold blooded killer.

This is what the accusers don't understand. Soldiers do NOT have the option to just
"quit their job" and\or sign a discipline slip.  They have no say over where they go, or what they have to do, including war.  They have to do what they are told, with severe penalties for refusal.

This does not mean they all agree with what they do. And it also dosen't mean they are hypocritical for complaining about a job they KNEW they might have do when they signed up.  Like any job, complaints come with it.

America, like any other country, has her own natural enemies (those who pre-meditatively sought to do us harm from the start) as well as those made by our actions and political practices.   And regardless of those 2 schools, our servicemen and women are here to protect us, period.

And they are to be respected above all others, for doing things in the name of freedom ordinary people don't have to do, because they are out doing it for all of us.

If you are given an illegal order your supposed to refuse it.  For example if your commanding officer tells you to do something that violates the geneva convention or its consider treasonus you are obligated not to follow it.

Understood and accepted.  However,  proving the illegality of the order is most likely the burden of proof of the one refusing the order.  Just like most other times people decide to challenge those in power,  it's probably a "your word vs. theirs" deal when it comes to the chain of command and violation of orders.  And there are others who will take their fall less harder than the ones below them.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 26, 2010, 11:41:45 PM
Other than "Mean Machine", this has been an interesting and respectful thread.  As far as MM goes, his political bigotry and hatefulness is now out there for all to see . . . is he "Judge Death" under a new alias?  Or is he just another leftist hatemonger?

Who knows?

I just hope one of the mods will take out the trash, as this was an otherwise fun and interesting thread.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 26, 2010, 11:50:09 PM
How do we go from respectful discourse to this crap.   :thumbdown:

We have an otherwise respectful, informative (I like to hear from the Wiccan's about their faith, it is something I know very little about from genuine sources) and INTERESTING discussion.  What happens to that good discussion  when we get:

Quote

As to hating the far right, I am indeed guilty as charged. I hate the far, radical right and make no apologies for it.

...

Damn right I hate them. I'd like to beat the far right to a bloody pulp

...

I'd like to stomp the far right's collective face in

...

So yes I hate the far right, and I don't consider it to be a "knee jerk" hatred but rather a  well founded hate


One thing I will agree with you upon, Mr. Mean Machine...you ARE full of hate.

Which makes one of your last comments almost laughable:

Quote

Seems to me that the knee jerk hate is mostly a far right thing


Like I put above...   :thumbdown:



He really blew his case, speaking about violence being wrong and then threatening conservatives.   And he blew it on a few other things:

Posted by Mean Machine

Quote
Then we had DUHHHHbya who didn't even win the election, since gore got about 500,000 more votes than he did, but the far right expected us to all fall in line behind their president and if we didn't we were traitors and unamerican.

Yeah, and then we had ACORN and fraudulent voter registration, and a Department Of Justice who refused to punish the New Black Panther Party for violating the Voter Rights Act of 1965. Oh no, race didn't play any cards there...And now we have cries of "racism",  "terrorist" and any other BS piece of crap the left throws at those who disagree with Obama. 

And then this one:

Quote
Now we have another democrat in office, and once aain the far right is at it, with their cries for "Impeachment" and "kenyan birth" ane "OMAMA IS HITLER!!!". Now they're talking about armed uprisings and revoltutions or secessions if they don't get their way..

Accusations of revolution? That's funny coming from people who worship radicals who initiated their own revolutions, (and murder) like Mao and Che Guevara. One of Obama's czars went as far as calling the Chavez regime "brilliant."

As to 'Obama is Hitler'...the Left made the same comparisons for 8 years of Dubya, and used their own sense of "patriotism" as their inner theme to do so (even though they loathe patriotism) and basically did the same thing they now accuse the Right of.


Quote
I see them walking around in their "SPAY AND NEUTER LIBERALS! Partnership for a liberal free america" shirts. I see them threatening to shoot elected lawmakers who vote for healthcare reform...

And in Hollywood and L.A. people hung effigies of Sarah Palin and John McCain from nooses outside their homes, and got away with it under Free Speech.   

And it dosen't stop there..we had the murder of Pro-Lifer James Pouillon, by a Pro-Choice man in Owosso, Michigan, that got shoved aside and ignored as the murder of Dr. George Tiller made big headlines, as they most likely privately laughed their asses off at Pouillon's murder. Both men murdered for their beliefs, but only ONE gets addressed as wrongdoing and terroristic.

And then the grand finale:

Quote
Damn right I hate them. I'd like to beat the far right to a bloody pulp, personally, for their refusal to accept an election that doesn't go their way and their demand that everyone follow their president when one gets elected.  I'd like to stomp the far right's collective face in for deciding to sabotage and overthrow democracy when it doesn't go their way, and I make no apologies for it.

I actually hope they try pulling some sort of revolt just to see them crushed and the survivors imprisoned.

This is a hell of a message of progressive love and harmony, isn't it?


Aaannnd....the curtain call:

Quote
Seems to me that the knee jerk hate is mostly a far right thing, the well founded hate is more something the left has for the people who seem to want to turn america into a christian conservative theocratic dictatorship where only the christian conservatives can run, be elected, have power, etc.

This is their big one...funny that they claim to hate only the "extreme" elements, and then come down on the more normal conservatives every time they have a dissenting opinion.

Look at how Obama wants to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine and couple it to Internet Neutrality.  All aimed at silencing critics and preventing the news from getting out unless it's sponsored by state-run media.  And yet they say we're attacking THEIR right to speak...


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 26, 2010, 11:55:23 PM
Other than "Mean Machine", this has been an interesting and respectful thread.  As far as MM goes, his political bigotry and hatefulness is now out there for all to see.

Agreed.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 27, 2010, 06:28:30 AM
And did you catch his ignorance of our constitution?  Something about how Bush should not have won because Gore got a half million more votes.  Under our system, the winner of the ELECTORAL VOTE, not the POPULAR vote, becomes President.  It has been that way in every election since 1788.  Now, as far as popular votes go, GWB got more in number and percentage in 2000 than Clinton got in either 1992 or 1996, when he was elected President with 42% and 46%, respectively.  Bush's numbers in 2000 were along the lines of 48.9 percent, with 49.1 or so going to Gore and the rest to Nader and the other fringe candidates.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: 3mnkids on September 27, 2010, 08:11:14 AM
Yeah, and then we had ACORN and fraudulent voter registration, and a Department Of Justice who refused to punish the New Black Panther Party for violating the Voter Rights Act of 1965. Oh no, race didn't play any cards there...And now we have cries of "racism",  "terrorist" and any other BS piece of crap the left throws at those who disagree with Obama.

http://mediamatters.org/research/201007070020

Quote
Accusations of revolution? That's funny coming from people who worship radicals who initiated their own revolutions, (and murder) like Mao and Che Guevara. One of Obama's czars went as far as calling the Chavez regime "brilliant."

You're a Beck fan, arent you?

Quote
As to 'Obama is Hitler'...the Left made the same comparisons for 8 years of Dubya, and used their own sense of "patriotism" as their inner theme to do so (even though they loathe patriotism) and basically did the same thing they now accuse the Right of.


 What an asinine statement.


Quote
And in Hollywood and L.A. people hung effigies of Sarah Palin and John McCain from nooses outside their homes, and got away with it under Free Speech. 

And lots of people at McCain/Palin rallies brought monkeys and shouted kill him.. whats your point? That stupid people do stupid things?

Quote
And it dosen't stop there..we had the murder of Pro-Lifer James Pouillon, by a Pro-Choice man in Owosso, Michigan, that got shoved aside and ignored as the murder of Dr. George Tiller made big headlines, as they most likely privately laughed their asses off at Pouillon's murder. Both men murdered for their beliefs, but only ONE gets addressed as wrongdoing and terroristic.


http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-12001-504083.html
Quote
Obama called last week's shooting of Pouillon "deplorable" in a two-sentence statement.

"Whichever side of a public debate you're on, violence is never the right answer," Obama said in the statement.


And most likely laughed their asses off? This is not the first time you have implied that the left would get some kind of pleasure out of someones misfortune... Im not happy when anyone is murdered.. You are projecting.




Quote
Look at how Obama wants to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine and couple it to Internet Neutrality.  All aimed at silencing critics and preventing the news from getting out unless it's sponsored by state-run media.  And yet they say we're attacking THEIR right to speak

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/18/white-house-obama-opposes-fairness-doctrine-revival/
Obama has NEVER said he wanted to reinstate the fairness doctrine.. Just the opposite.

As far as Mean Machine goes, their post are pretty extreme but not anymore extreme than Umaril The Unfeathereds. According to him the left are radicals who are unpatriotic(loathe patriotism actually) and who laugh when people are murdered.  :lookingup:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 27, 2010, 02:09:22 PM
Okay, everybody, calm down.  Remember, political discussions are not welcome here, merely tolerated. 
Let's all cool our jets before yet another thread is locked for discourteous discourse. 
Thank you!  :smile: :thumbup:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: indianasmith on September 27, 2010, 07:48:31 PM
Umaril goes over the top from time to time, but he's still my bud.

I don't know that you can put his digs in the same category as Mean Machine's though.

I hear these stories promulgated on the Left about hate signs, shouts of "kill him" etc., but I rarely see any proof.  Oft times they are proven false altogether.

For example, when John Lewis (a man I genuinely respect for his heroic work in the 1960's) and other members of the Congressional Black Caucus claimed they were showered with racist epiphets as they walked through a crowd of anti-Health Care Bill demonstrators.  Several cameras covered that walk from different angles, and not one of them picked up a single racial slur.   One of the organizers of the Tea Party offered a hefty reward to someone who could find even ONE racial epiphet in that video sequence, and so far it goes unclaimed.

Not to say the right doesn't have its wing-nuts.  Every political movement has some.  But it seems to me the average level of discourse on the left is, generally speaking, more profane, more vicious, and more hateful than MOST of what comes from the right.

Michael Savage and Mark Levin notwithstanding!

And, that being said, I don't buy into the myth that liberals secretly lust after the destruction of capitalism and the downfall of America.  I mean, there are SOME that do, especially in academia where Marxism seems to have never lost its luster (I can never understand that; the academics are among the first to be stood against a wall when Communism takes over).  But by and large, I think liberals are sincere, compassionate people with a great desire to help their fellow man.  Sadly, most of the ways they propose to do so are disastrously wrong.

But they MEAN well! :teddyr:

Lotsa love to all our resident libs, and to my buddy Umaril!


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 27, 2010, 08:22:36 PM
...Not to say the right doesn't have its wing-nuts.  Every political movement has some.  But it seems to me the average level of discourse on the left is, generally speaking, more profane, more vicious, and more hateful than MOST of what comes from the right.
This thread'll get locked yet.  NOW I'm annoyed.  Though I believe ONE war justified, let me say to you that two wars, maiming and killing U.S. servicemen, is what's hateful.  Slap a label on me, if you must, but get off the bandwagon, Indy.  You're too smart to be that stupid.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: The Gravekeeper on September 27, 2010, 10:45:49 PM
I dunno...while I'm generally left-leaning (left-of-center on a spectrum; I think both sides have good ideas that can mesh well together), I see the same level of hateful bile coming from both sides. On top of that, both sides accuse the other of being hateful and unjust all the time. It's kind of annoying and is honestly starting to get me interested in learning more about anarchy.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Jim H on September 27, 2010, 11:36:55 PM
Hmm...  It appears to me both sides are seeing it how they want to.  I will say the public figures on the right spew a lot more bile than the ones on the left.  Maybe it is just the ones I happen to see though.  I mean, Hannity called liberals evil in the title if his book
  I dunno.

Wait, what were we talking about again?   :tongueout:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Rev. Powell on September 28, 2010, 10:55:38 AM
From my perspective both the right and the left stereotype the other side, use inflammatory rhetoric, and are incapable of seeing their own faults and blemishes in equal measure. 


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Mean Machine on September 28, 2010, 02:52:19 PM
People who claim that the left was as bad during bush's terms as the right are being during Obams' areeither lying or stupid.

Al Gore called george bush his commander in chief during the early days of the iraq invasion and occupation, before we realized that bush had lied about every issue leading up to that illegal war as a show of patriotism and solidarity. Has the right ever shown such loyalty to Obama?

Were were the left wing protestors carrying signs saying "Spay and neuter conservatives!" (An idea I'm beginning to find attractive, I might add.)

Did a liberal cut the gas line at someone's home while his family was in it because they thought he was a senator who'd voted for a bush initiative?

Where were the liberals threatening to shoot members of congress who voted for bush initiatives?

Did a liberal ever spit on a conservative member of congress on camera?

Did a liberal governor of a liberal state ever talk about secession after bush got into the white house?

Did the democrats even stop the funding of the military because they didn't like a provision in the bill like the republicans just did?


A rightie here accused the left of "knee jerk" hatred of the right. I don't deny hating the right and hoping it gets crushed soon, but I do object to the term "knee jerk" as it implies unjustified.

I believe my hate of the right is fully justified by their hypocritical, arrogant behavior and their open intent to sabotage democracy every time it doesn't go their way, plus their constant lies about everything and everyone who disagrees with them.





Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Allhallowsday on September 28, 2010, 03:41:32 PM
People who claim that the left was as bad during bush's terms as the right are being during Obams' areeither lying or stupid.
Al Gore called george bush his commander in chief during the early days of the iraq invasion and occupation, before we realized that bush had lied about every issue leading up to that illegal war as a show of patriotism and solidarity. Has the right ever shown such loyalty to Obama?
Were were the left wing protestors carrying signs saying "Spay and neuter conservatives!" (An idea I'm beginning to find attractive, I might add.)
Did a liberal cut the gas line at someone's home while his family was in it because they thought he was a senator who'd voted for a bush initiative?
Where were the liberals threatening to shoot members of congress who voted for bush initiatives?
Did a liberal ever spit on a conservative member of congress on camera?
Did a liberal governor of a liberal state ever talk about secession after bush got into the white house?
Did the democrats even stop the funding of the military because they didn't like a provision in the bill like the republicans just did?
A rightie here accused the left of "knee jerk" hatred of the right. I don't deny hating the right and hoping it gets crushed soon, but I do object to the term "knee jerk" as it implies unjustified.

I believe my hate of the right is fully justified by their hypocritical, arrogant behavior and their open intent to sabotage democracy every time it doesn't go their way, plus their constant lies about everything and everyone who disagrees with them.

Hey, Mean Machine, you are a guest here.  I don't disagree with much of what you've cited, however, I started this thread which means simply that I can lock it or remove it.  I am not a moderator, but some of your commentary is pushing the envelope, and, as a guest, I don't expect it will be well tolerated for long.  Tone it down and keep it civil, please.  

Why don't you join the website?  


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 28, 2010, 04:27:56 PM
Good old 3mnkids...

So I'm an extremist? 3mnkids compares me to Mean Machine?

Quote
As far as Mean Machine goes, their posts are pretty extreme but not anymore extreme than Umaril The Unfeathereds. According to him the left are radicals who are unpatriotic(loathe patriotism actually) and who laugh when people are murdered.


Let me get something straight with YOU, and the rest of this board. Unlike Mean Machine,  I NEVER advocated "beating the extreme Right to a bloody pulp"  (or anyone for that matter.)  This shows how really desperate you are to make a case.

And then 3mnkids denied my accusation of Left-Wing comparisons of Bush to Hitler.  Here's some food for thought:

http://semiskimmed.net/bushhitler.html

As usual feel free to dismiss all of it as rhetoric (and there's a lot) As usual, every single act will get dismissed as "rhetoric" or "made up." There's a lot to dismiss here, so get to work..

And this one, when I pointed out the effigies of MacCain and Palin being hung in displays of outright hatred:

Posted by 3mnkids:
Quote
And lots of people at McCain/Palin rallies brought monkeys and shouted kill him.. whats your point? That stupid people do stupid things?


How hollow and obvious, my lovely.  Trying to turn the argument in your favor by taking my comparison and saying that "stupid people do stupid things" as you falsely attempt to apply it to general wrongdoing, when you know you're only implying Right Wing stupidity. Do you think any of us here are really that stupid?

You need to do better than that...you're learning though, I'll give you that much. But you're not quite ready for your promotion to minister of Denial.  Keep trying though.







Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 28, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
People who claim that the left was as bad during bush's terms as the right are being during Obams' areeither lying or stupid.
Al Gore called george bush his commander in chief during the early days of the iraq invasion and occupation, before we realized that bush had lied about every issue leading up to that illegal war as a show of patriotism and solidarity. Has the right ever shown such loyalty to Obama?
Were were the left wing protestors carrying signs saying "Spay and neuter conservatives!" (An idea I'm beginning to find attractive, I might add.)
Did a liberal cut the gas line at someone's home while his family was in it because they thought he was a senator who'd voted for a bush initiative?
Where were the liberals threatening to shoot members of congress who voted for bush initiatives?
Did a liberal ever spit on a conservative member of congress on camera?
Did a liberal governor of a liberal state ever talk about secession after bush got into the white house?
Did the democrats even stop the funding of the military because they didn't like a provision in the bill like the republicans just did?
A rightie here accused the left of "knee jerk" hatred of the right. I don't deny hating the right and hoping it gets crushed soon, but I do object to the term "knee jerk" as it implies unjustified.

I believe my hate of the right is fully justified by their hypocritical, arrogant behavior and their open intent to sabotage democracy every time it doesn't go their way, plus their constant lies about everything and everyone who disagrees with them.

Hey, Mean Machine, you are a guest here.  I don't disagree with much of what you've cited, however, I started this thread which means simply that I can lock it or remove it.  I am not a moderator, but some of your commentary is pushing the envelope, and, as a guest, I don't expect it will be well tolerated for long.  Tone it down and keep it civil, please.  

Why don't you join the website?  

Good suggestion.  He and 3mnkids might actually want to try reading the Constitution instead of making paper airplanes out of it too...


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: 3mnkids on September 28, 2010, 05:42:33 PM
Quote
author=Umaril The Unfeathered link=topic=131526.msg362382#msg362382 date=1285709276]

Quote
So I'm an extremist? 3mnkids compares me to Mean Machine?

I said your post are extreme, and they are.

Quote
And then 3mnkids denied my accusation of Left-Wing comparisons of Bush to Hitler.  Here's some food for thought:

Really, I did? You want to show me where?... I'll wait.

Quote
How hollow and obvious, my lovely.  Trying to turn the argument in your favor by taking my comparison and saying that "stupid people do stupid things" as you falsely attempt to apply it to general wrongdoing, when you know you're only implying Right Wing stupidity. Do you think any of us here are really that stupid?

Obviously it wasnt obvious enough or you would have picked up what I was putting down. Both sides do stupid things. I dont imply anything. Ever. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If I thought it was only the right I would have said so. Was that clear enough for you?


Quote
Good suggestion.  He and 3mnkids might actually want to try reading the Constitution instead of making paper airplanes out of it too...

Im very familiar with the constitution, thank you. You want to point what I have said that leads you to believe I havent read it? Here is a suggestion for you.. Take your personal attacks and oh so subtle insults and shove them.   :smile:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Jim H on September 28, 2010, 05:48:13 PM
Quote
As usual feel free to dismiss all of it as rhetoric (and there's a lot) As usual, every single act will get dismissed as "rhetoric" or "made up." There's a lot to dismiss here, so get to work..

You didn't acknowledge a lot of what 3mn was getting at.  You claim to believe leftists (you applied this quite broadly) loathe patriotism and "most likely" derived great pleasure out of someone being murdered.  What are we to make of you after hearing you believe such nonsense?  It makes it hard to take much of anything you say seriously.


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on September 28, 2010, 05:58:20 PM
I said your post are extreme, and they are.

Again, I never advocated hurting anyone. That's the line between MM and I.


Obviously it wasnt obvious enough or you would have picked up what I was putting down. Both sides do stupid things. I dont imply anything. Ever. I say what I mean and I mean what I say. If I thought it was only the right I would have said so. Was that clear enough for you?

Sure, now that your game plan was exposed, now it's BOTH sides that are wrong.


Im very familiar with the constitution, thank you. You want to point what I have said that leads you to believe I havent read it? Here is a suggestion for you.. Take your personal attacks and oh so subtle insults and shove them.   :smile:

This act involves bending over? After you, my dear...oh and please try not rip the towel bar out of the shower this time? I knew you enjoyed it, but those things cost money..  :tongueout:


Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Rev. Powell on September 28, 2010, 06:28:03 PM
I have never locked a thread before but I believe that Andrew would want this one locked.

I honestly don't understand what pleasure some of you derive from this pointless, childish bickering.  That's a non-partisan opinion.



Title: Re: Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
Post by: Andrew on September 28, 2010, 07:19:24 PM
I'm going to interject here that this discussion quickly stopped being a discussion and turned into a flame war.

If you want to discuss a subject, then discuss it.  If you want to argue and insult people, take it somewhere else.  I don't have time to babysit adults by reminding them to act like adults.