Badmovies.org Forum

Movies => Press Releases and Film News => Topic started by: Allhallowsday on November 19, 2010, 05:06:17 PM



Title: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 19, 2010, 05:06:17 PM
Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Anti-tax activists everywhere have been loudly arguing for an extension of George W. Bush-era tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans in the United States.  Now a group of millionaires is arguing the opposite.

More than 40 of the nation's millionaires have joined Patriotic Millionaires for Fiscal Strength to ask President Obama to discontinue the tax breaks established for them during the Bush administration, as Salon reports.

"For the fiscal health of our nation and the well-being of our fellow citizens, we ask that you allow tax cuts on incomes over $1,000,000 to expire at the end of this year as scheduled," their website states. "We make this request as loyal citizens who now or in the past earned an income of $1,000,000 per year or more..." 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20101119/ts_yblog_theticket/millionaires-to-obama-tax-us (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20101119/ts_yblog_theticket/millionaires-to-obama-tax-us)


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Trekkie313 on November 19, 2010, 05:56:51 PM
 :teddyr: Oh glorious day!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: indianasmith on November 19, 2010, 06:31:35 PM
How many country clubs did they have to troll through to find that many people eager to have the government devour MORE than half their earnings?  The top 5% of wage earners in this country already foot around 90% of the tax burden.  My opinion: these guys are morons.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Doggett on November 19, 2010, 06:34:32 PM
I think they're patriots who want to give more to their country.  :thumbup:
There's only so much money you can spend anyway, might as well give some away.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 19, 2010, 06:53:47 PM
How many country clubs did they have to troll through to find that many people eager to have the government devour MORE than half their earnings?
 

Yeah and how drunk were they when they said "yes"? lol 

And just what are they getting in return for suddenly allowing their earnings to go to Capitol Hill's war chest? 

I think they're patriots who want to give more to their country.  :thumbup:
There's only so much money you can spend anyway, might as well give some away.

Well Obama said 'change was coming' so how about sending some of that change to we, the little people?



Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Rev. Powell on November 19, 2010, 07:03:52 PM
Hey, nobody's stopping them from donating their excess income to the government!


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 19, 2010, 07:13:28 PM
Hey, nobody's stopping them from donating their excess income to the government!

You have a point.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 19, 2010, 11:59:54 PM
How many country clubs did they have to troll through to find that many people eager to have the government devour MORE than half their earnings?  The top 5% of wage earners in this country already foot around 90% of the tax burden.  My opinion: these guys are morons.
They must be morons.  Why would anyone want to give?  Yet, Christ gave everything. 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: indianasmith on November 20, 2010, 12:16:50 AM
Giving one's life for lost souls and giving one's hard earned dollars to a bloated, wasteful bureacracy are hardly the same thing, AHD.  And I'm not against paying what's required.  But if all God requires is 10%, where does ANY government get off demanding that some people pay 40% of their annual income, in addition to massive taxes on their property that have to be paid EVERY YEAR, even if the property has been in their family for generations.  Then every single purchase they make is also taxed, as are their business transactions. And, oh yeah, if some in Congress get their way, after the government takes half their income every year for their entire productive lives, when they die, the government will take another 40% of what is left before allowing the remainder to be passed on to their children.  That is insanity!


I am fine with GIVING.  People are free to GIVE all they want to the charity of their choice, including the United States Government.  But I think it is immoral, evil, and wrong for any government to assume that it is entitled to HALF or more of everything you earn in a lifetime, just because you happen to be financially successful. 

Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Trekkie313 on November 20, 2010, 01:41:27 AM
How the f**k did this turn into a religious argument?   :question: :bluesad:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: ulthar on November 20, 2010, 07:12:10 AM

How the f**k did this turn into a religious argument?   :question: :bluesad:


I don't see an argument, just a discussion.

AHD raised an interesting point - is the request for lower taxation consistent with the Christian ideal of "giving"?  Given that there are several Christians on this board that also gripe against taxes (progressive taxes in particular, in my case), I think it is a fair distinction to make.  Indy addressed the point.

What's the big deal?

Did you lurk on this forum for any period of time before you started posting?  Because these guys (and myself from time to time) have back-and-forth discussions like this all the time (we discuss religion a LOT, as well as other "controversial" topics)...and generally with mutual respect and at the end of it all, we have all typically learned something new not only about the subject but also about the other people on the board.

It's what makes us, you know, like friends.   :thumbup:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: akiratubo on November 20, 2010, 10:02:35 AM
Rather than begging to be taxed more, perhaps they could donate all that money to local causes.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: AndyC on November 20, 2010, 10:24:45 AM
I find it kind of refreshing. I hear plenty of arguments for a more voluntary system of paying for things, but never from anyone who sounds like they'd pay their share if they had a choice. It's nice to see people who can afford to pay more stepping up and suggesting that they should.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: lester1/2jr on November 20, 2010, 11:50:54 AM
First, Christ gave everything and he demanded alot of his followers but they could leave. If you don't give the government taxes you go to jail. So it's voluntarily giving verses coercian. He also said render unto caesar what is caesars, not I am working through the state so giving them is the same to giving to me.

As for milionaires or even billionaires they are not a monolithic group.  I see Mort Zuckerman on Mghlaughlin group and he speaks matter of factly about raising taxes to meet he budget. he is for it. Other of these guys aren't.

There aer a number of reasons for a really rich person to be for this and against it. being for it publicly is of course good publicity. It may be principled too. It may be out of fear of a bigger catastrophe that the 700 billion this will "cost" (I know it's not the same thing but in terms of the budget) may precipitate.

The problem is there simply isn't a popular political party that can cut the budget in a meaningful way. The republicans are obsessed with war and "defense" *(offense, really) and any money they save from the other areas will likely go to that so they are not much help. Liberals of course have their constituencies unions, federal workers etc.

I saw some democrat womans response to the rather sensible deficit commissions suggestions and it was just a bunch of normal democatic talking points. That's kind of the way things are going to go. Probably the republicans will make sure the defense stuff isn't at all significant and the thing they finally come up with will not even come close to slowiong down the debt train.


* I think republicans think we get PAID to fight wars. That's the only way their support for it squares in any way with their alleged conservatism.


edit http://bit.ly/c8QLOP GOP "we are never going to cut defense"

http://bit.ly/9V0Pld dems "we are never going to cut entitlements"



Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 21, 2010, 11:56:33 AM
Giving is giving.  Paying taxes is patriotic.  I am perplexed by people who aren't rich, but defend the rich (even to their own detriment) because... they hope to be rich someday, or dream of so being, and don't want to risk their imaginary millions into government coffers...  :question: :lookingup:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Doggett on November 21, 2010, 01:06:25 PM
Giving is giving.  Paying taxes is patriotic.  I am perplexed by people who aren't rich, but defend the rich (even to their own detriment) because... they hope to be rich someday, or dream of so being, and don't want to risk their imaginary millions into government coffers...  :question: :lookingup:


Those people are called Russian.
I know this.

People who've been poor all their lives and don't have heating or electricity will vote for the same government all their lives beacuse they believe its the right thing to to for the greater good.

I wanted to grab one guy by the shoulder and tell him:

"Vote for someone else !!! It's not like you can be any worse off!"

They call themselves socialists, but they're not. I know this becasue I am one (a socialist, not Russian). The whole point is that everyone can least have a little something (it won't be equal, but it'll better than than living in a hut with no heating...), that doesn't work in Russia.
Only people in Mocsow get things and then its through bribarby and corruption, journalists in Russia know this they even held a ralley two weeks ago to highlight the point.
Not that it was broadcast on Russian TV.




I have no idea why I'm talking about Russia.
I find the way of thinking there...troublesome.

I also don't like Russia Today, the news network that broadcasts in the UK. I don't trust any news network that CAN'T SPELL !

I also don't like the English woman on CNN, the one with the short dark hair Grrr..... She is so opinionated which I don't want.


Thank God for BBC News...

No, I don't know why I mentioned the CNN woman either. I think I was on a roll...


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 21, 2010, 08:44:52 PM
Thank God for BBC News...
No, I don't know why I mentioned the CNN woman either.
I think I was on a roll...
Or was it a sesame seed bun...???  :question:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 21, 2010, 09:08:47 PM
Giving one's life for lost souls and giving one's hard earned dollars to a bloated, wasteful bureacracy are hardly the same thing, AHD.  And I'm not against paying what's required.  But if all God requires is 10%, where does ANY government get off demanding that some people pay 40% of their annual income, in addition to massive taxes on their property that have to be paid EVERY YEAR, even if the property has been in their family for generations.  Then every single purchase they make is also taxed, as are their business transactions. And, oh yeah, if some in Congress get their way, after the government takes half their income every year for their entire productive lives, when they die, the government will take another 40% of what is left before allowing the remainder to be passed on to their children.  That is insanity!

Right on the money, my friend.


I am fine with GIVING.  People are free to GIVE all they want to the charity of their choice, including the United States Government.  But I think it is immoral, evil, and wrong for any government to assume that it is entitled to HALF or more of everything you earn in a lifetime, just because you happen to be financially successful.

Yeah, and it's even more immoral that WE pay OUR taxes, but Congress dosen't pay THEIRS (let's not kid ourselves) Oh well, at least Charlie Rangel won't be getting away with that anymore.. 

Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.

You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.

Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one.

But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...

Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:





Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: ulthar on November 21, 2010, 09:48:21 PM
Giving is giving.  Paying taxes is patriotic.  I am perplexed by people who aren't rich, but defend the rich (even to their own detriment) because... they hope to be rich someday, or dream of so being, and don't want to risk their imaginary millions into government coffers...  :question: :lookingup:

If you really see no difference between GIVING and having something taken from you by force, there is no point in continuing the conversation.

And you are making an incorrect assumption *IF* you think people defend the rich because they hope to be rich someday.  That's a VERY narrow minded point of view.

Progressive taxation is NOT patriotic...it is punitive.  Progressive taxation is one of the basic tenets of Marxism (and yes, I've read Marx and Engels and am referencing the source material here, not quoting some "Right Wing Talking Point," so let's put that cat to bed before it even meows), and the purpose, as outlined in M&E, is to destroy the upper class.

Class warfare is tiresome.  Those that sing this idiotic tune might try being a little positive...how about celebrate the success of others and realize that the greater number of people that succeed, the better it is for everybody.  The gain of wealth is not a zero sum game...for one to become rich, another does not need to become (or stay) poor.

Wealth can be generated...created...but ONLY in social and economic systems that ALLOW it to exist and grow.  The "equality" of Marxism is not to create any wealth to bring all UP, but to destroy and bring everyone down to poverty.

History shows this to be true in every single system where Marxist ideals were put into practice.  Marxism is an utter failure, and I cannot believe anyone continues to grope at any fundamental tenet that leads to that path....including progressive taxation.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 21, 2010, 10:25:59 PM


History shows this to be true in every single system where Marxist ideals were put into practice.  Marxism is an utter failure, and I cannot believe anyone continues to grope at any fundamental tenet that leads to that path....including progressive taxation.

Bingo. It's the same every time. The Russians gave the illusion that they were a rich and wealthy society, exemplifying it thru their massive military buildup, and the facade of maintaining their forces, when in reality they had not one penny to do it with, due to the Marxist ideal of the spurning of capitalism and the ruining of the banks and the wealthy.

So, like most systems of this kind, they leeched off of their neighbors and fellow countrymen to provide for the govt. and it's thugs. And soon the people realized that there was no equality, no united workers, just a military statehood where the the govt. controls everything and grave consequences were enforced for stepping out of line.

Whose to say that can't happen in the U.S.?


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: lester1/2jr on November 22, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
Quote
Then every single purchase they make is also taxed, as are their business transactions. And, oh yeah, if some in Congress get their way, after the government takes half their income every year for their entire productive lives, when they die, the government will take another 40% of what is left before allowing the remainder to be passed on to their children.  That is insanity!

Right on the money, my friend.


So you guys are for massive cuts to military spending and ending the war on terror? If not, how do you expect to get the revenue? I don't understand.

It's a trillion dollars a year and takes all tjhose resources and people out of the private economy.

Sorry, I don't see how you can square that.  LIke the global warming people and the welfareists and so forth, you are all for taking money from working people when its for your personal crusade.

Everyone wants the honey but not the sting

(http://www.armscontrolcenter.org/policy/securityspending/articles/us_vs_world.gif)


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Jim H on November 22, 2010, 01:56:52 PM
Quote
Sorry, I don't see how you can square that.  LIke the global warming people and the welfareists and so forth, you are all for taking money from working people when its for your personal crusade.

Everyone wants the honey but not the sting


Indeed.  Sacrifice doesn't appear to be much of a virtue anymore.  I will say I've heard a few of the new conservatives argue the military should be cut quite a bit though, which makes me respect their beliefs more.

Quote
Progressive taxation is NOT patriotic...it is punitive.  Progressive taxation is one of the basic tenets of Marxism (and yes, I've read Marx and Engels and am referencing the source material here, not quoting some "Right Wing Talking Point," so let's put that cat to bed before it even meows), and the purpose, as outlined in M&E, is to destroy the upper class.


Well, I'm reminded of the global warming thread here, about those who have the knowledge and training to properly understand the situation - as, again, I'm not convinced anyone here does (myself included).  Shouldn't we be listening to economists on which taxation systems are the most effective at working in the economy, not which suits our political or personal beliefs?  It's clear progressive taxes can work - try naming a successful economy today without them.  Not to say a flat tax couldn't also work, but I'm not convinced of that yet.  What country has tried it and succeeded?  Which have tried it and failed? 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_that_have_flat_tax_systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_tax#Countries_that_have_flat_tax_systems)

Interesting stuff, anyway.

Singapore has progressive taxation, which from what I can tell has one of the most intelligently constructed economies in the world.  Arguing results in regards to the economy is what should matter here. 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 22, 2010, 09:55:44 PM
Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.
You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.
Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one.
But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...
Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:
I didn't call you a hypocrite.  I didn't accuse you of cheap shots.  I'd let my friend Indy get away with it because we are often at odds, and discuss Christianity regularly on this forum; in my view, his politics interfere with his faith.  Umaril, don't lump me in.  You don't know anything about my politics, and don't assume you do.  You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred: 

And my statement is at the heart of Christianity, not a cheap shot.  Conservative right-wing "thinkers" like yourself are swift to condemn, and quick to define, but did you think about what I wrote? 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 22, 2010, 10:10:12 PM
Giving is giving.  Paying taxes is patriotic.  I am perplexed by people who aren't rich, but defend the rich (even to their own detriment) because... they hope to be rich someday, or dream of so being, and don't want to risk their imaginary millions into government coffers...  :question: :lookingup:
If you really see no difference between GIVING and having something taken from you by force, there is no point in continuing the conversation.
Hey, you're not having a conversation with just me, but if you want to stop conversing, that's fine with me. 

And you are making an incorrect assumption *IF* you think people defend the rich because they hope to be rich someday.  That's a VERY narrow minded point of view.

Progressive taxation is NOT patriotic...it is punitive.  Progressive taxation is one of the basic tenets of Marxism (and yes, I've read Marx and Engels and am referencing the source material here, not quoting some "Right Wing Talking Point," so let's put that cat to bed before it even meows), and the purpose, as outlined in M&E, is to destroy the upper class.

...Wealth can be generated...created...but ONLY in social and economic systems that ALLOW it to exist and grow.  The "equality" of Marxism is not to create any wealth to bring all UP, but to destroy and bring everyone down to poverty.

History shows this to be true in every single system where Marxist ideals were put into practice.  Marxism is an utter failure, and I cannot believe anyone continues to grope at any fundamental tenet that leads to that path....including progressive taxation.
Excuse me, Ulthar, the article was about millionaires who believe the Bush tax cuts should be allowed to expire.  Their tax money is not being taken from them by force.  Always with you right wingers: Marxism (or is it Nazis this week?)  :lookingup: 

Class warfare is tiresome.  Those that sing this idiotic tune might try being a little positive...how about celebrate the success of others and realize that the greater number of people that succeed, the better it is for everybody.  The gain of wealth is not a zero sum game...for one to become rich, another does not need to become (or stay) poor.
No, but a lot of wealthy got that way by riding on the backs of underpaid workers.  But of course "class warfare" is "idiotic".  However, that point was not part of my commentary.  And I do see a lot of "right-wing talking points" in your comments even though you have proclaimed the cat has been "put to bed". 

A lot of assumptions are drawn because... I believe giving is right and good?  Because... I posted an article about rich people whom I agree with?   

I don't understand you guys.  That's two of you resorting to insults in the wake of broad assumptions about me. 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: ulthar on November 22, 2010, 10:19:15 PM
Your comments were not those of the article you posted...    :buggedout:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 22, 2010, 11:03:19 PM
Your comments were not those of the article you posted...    :buggedout:
My comments were not... wha...?   :question: 
I don't get your point, but will point out that, once again, you skirt your own behavior.  You made broad assumptions about me.  Then, you insulted me. 

Last thing I will say: rationalizing Christianity with behavior that separates us is not Christian. 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: AndyC on November 23, 2010, 12:55:07 AM
Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.
You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.
Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one.
But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...
Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:
I didn't call you a hypocrite.  I didn't accuse you of cheap shots.  I'd let my friend Indy get away with it because we are often at odds, and discuss Christianity regularly on this forum; in my view, his politics interfere with his faith.  Umaril, don't lump me in.  You don't know anything about my politics, and don't assume you do.  You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred: 

And my statement is at the heart of Christianity, not a cheap shot.  Conservative right-wing "thinkers" like yourself are swift to condemn, and quick to define, but did you think about what I wrote? 

I agree that AHD's reference to Christianity was relevant in this situation, although I probably would have phrased it a bit differently. It was Indy's specific statement, and perhaps his own careless wording, that were in question. Indy specifically said that because these people already pay more, and wish to make an even larger contribution, they must be "morons." That immediately struck me as an odd thing to hear from someone who is not shy about expressing his Christian beliefs. Although they're not necessarily motivated by religious beliefs, what those millionaires are doing is very much in line with the most basic Christian values of giving and putting others before yourself.

And no, I don't think the "moron" statement can be qualified by suggesting that what they choose to support with their giving is less worthy than what someone else chooses to support. Whatever your opinion of how unfairly you're taxed or what kind of value for money your government is giving you, or whether you would do the same thing, what those millionaires are doing is noble and deserving of respect. Dismissing them as morons is certainly not appropriate.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: indianasmith on November 23, 2010, 01:09:46 AM
Let me take a different tack, then:
When the Bush tax cuts were enacted in 2001, many rich liberals complained that government would be starved of revenue if we did not continue to tax the wealthy at the old rates.  So, the IRS created a special fund where ANY American who felt guilty because they were not taxed enough could voluntarily contribute as much to the government as they wanted.  Last I heard, the fund had collected nearly $10,000 over 10 years!  These gentlemen could simply donate their money to the government if they wanted to, but they haven't.  And what they are proposing is that the government increase the amount that it already takes, not just from them, but from every American who earns as much as they do.  They won't voluntarily give to assauge their guilty liberal consciences, but they will throw their entire economic class under the tax bus.

Maybe it's not moronic, but I still don't find it particularly Christian.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: AndyC on November 23, 2010, 01:22:37 AM
That's a fair statement.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: lester1/2jr on November 23, 2010, 12:32:43 PM
Yeah I don't know if that's the same thing though. The tax cuts for the top 2% are going to take 700 billion or something out of the budget. Obviously I think we should cut spending but if you have a different sense of the budget that number is not going to be equaled by 40 or so millionaires giving a little more. The thing about the voluntary taxation isn't an invalid argument it's not a super great one though.

and I have to say, I went to college in the PC 90's and even there and then I didn't come across any leftist who was as defensive as Umaril the unfeathered. People have different opinons than you. relax. Virtually every post you take some random remark as a slight.

Also, don't know if I mentioned it but so called defense spending, really offense/ empire spending, is bankrupting this country.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: indianasmith on November 23, 2010, 02:21:29 PM
I would argue that entitlement spending is bankrupting the country.
The world is a very dangerous place, filled with random nutjobs who now have nuclear weapons (Kim Jong Il), an emerging superpower that regards the U.S. as, if not an enemy, at least a dangerous rival (China), and a burgeoning religious ideaology founded by our own oil money, whose ultimate goal is nothing less than the extinction of Western Civilization and all the freedoms it stands for (fundamentalist Islam).  The cost of defense is huge, I'll grant you that, but the cost of being defenseless is even greater. We are about the only good guys left in a world tilting more and more towards evil every day - I want us to be so massively armed that NO ONE will jack with us.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: lester1/2jr on November 23, 2010, 02:55:45 PM
Quote
The world is a very dangerous place, filled with random nutjobs who now have nuclear weapons (Kim Jong Il), an emerging superpower that regards the U.S. as, if not an enemy, at least a dangerous rival (China), and a burgeoning religious ideaology founded by our own oil money, whose ultimate goal is nothing less than the extinction of Western Civilization and all the freedoms it stands for (fundamentalist Islam).


My point compeletly. Our massive military spending makes us less able to compete with China, who have no occupations to pay for,  and makes it much easier for radical islam to drain exactly like they did to the soviets.  That's their stated goal

(http://zionismexplained.org/iraq/osama.jpg)

and we have to borrow money from China and Russia to do it which gives them all sorts of hand.

Quote
but the cost of being defenseless is even greater



We're defenseless now. We have two massive borders that are never going to be sealed and ports, malls, and airports that are sitting and waiting for terrorists to blow us up.   

Our existential problem is our debt. India, Egypt, and South Korea have their own problems they can deal with.

We're a republic not an empire.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 24, 2010, 12:21:40 PM

Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.

You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one. But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:

I didn't call you a hypocrite.  I didn't accuse you of cheap shots.  I'd let my friend Indy get away with it because we are often at odds, and discuss Christianity regularly on this forum; in my view, his politics interfere with his faith. 


Oh I see, only your friends can tell you where you're wrong,  but the rest of us have no right to criticize on issues that are relevant to us as well? Sorry man, the 1st Amendment isn't for friends and VIP's only.  We all have a right to an opinion.

Umaril, don't lump me in.  You don't know anything about my politics, and don't assume you do.  You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:

So I don't know anything about your politics. Yet, you slammed ME in two other threads, saying " I make you sick" and likening me to Glen Beck, and a few other chart toppers aimned at Right-Wing lunacy.

So is this to say that everyone who agrees with Beck on something is automatically a member of his elite fan club? No, you say? Then you in effect don't know MY total sphere of politics either.  But yet you seem happy lumping ME based on MY leanings.

And you have, to be fair, totally invalidated and downplayed my feelings in a few other threads in the past, while totally validating and credentializing your own feelings. And that is another way of saying that noone has a right to an opinion unless it harmonizes with yours. And that is, in it's own right, hypocrisy. It does come in different flavors, you know.

[And my statement is at the heart of Christianity, not a cheap shot.  Conservative right-wing "thinkers" like yourself are swift to condemn, and quick to define, but did you think about what I wrote? 

Swift to condemn, quick to define...is that anything like the Lefties who screamed and whined about every proposed security measures under Bush 2? 

The SAME ones who now support warrantless wiretapping, and the TSA grabbing breasts and crotches?  Oh yes, please tell me about those who are swift to condemn, and quick to define. Especially when it suits their need to support a president with a 39% approval rating, and a Congress with a rating knee-high to a grasshopper.

You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:

Oh, I'm sorry...did someone forget to tell you that this is America, and that you have the right to be offended, as well as to offend?


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 24, 2010, 12:44:06 PM
I would argue that entitlement spending is bankrupting the country.
The world is a very dangerous place, filled with random nutjobs who now have nuclear weapons (Kim Jong Il), an emerging superpower that regards the U.S. as, if not an enemy, at least a dangerous rival (China), and a burgeoning religious ideaology founded by our own oil money, whose ultimate goal is nothing less than the extinction of Western Civilization and all the freedoms it stands for (fundamentalist Islam).  The cost of defense is huge, I'll grant you that, but the cost of being defenseless is even greater. We are about the only good guys left in a world tilting more and more towards evil every day.

Korea will always be a hotspot.  The Chinese continue to support and supply N. Korea (as do the Russians.)  Russian pilots filled out the ranks of their air force in the first Korean war, and the Chinese had 900,000 reinforcements at the 38th parallell in Manchuria. They probably have more today....

Cuba: Russian missiles 90 miles off America's coast. Soviet military buildup.

70's era Egypt: 300,000 Russian troops to reinforce against Israeli aggression. The Middle East is literally the Russian's best client when it comes to weapons.  Oh, hello 80's era Libya.

In Vietnam, the Chinese allowed the NVA and 'Cong to have supply bases behind Chinese lines as a political buffer zone to prevent going into the North. Again, Russian pilots filled in the ranks of the NVA air force as well as arming and training Charlie with the latest and greatest weapons.

Modern day Venezuela: Soviet military presence.

And NOW, the Russians and Chinese now sit on the UN-Security Council, and have now given Iran a place to hide beneath their skirts. From Korea to Iran, the Russians have trained, armed, and supplied almost every Third World military, and now the Chinese are in on it.

The fact that every enemy since WW2 has pointed an AK-47 at us should tell you the story of just who is pulling the strings..





Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Jim H on November 24, 2010, 04:04:47 PM
Quote
The SAME ones who now support warrantless wiretapping, and the TSA grabbing breasts and crotches?

Which liberals are these?  I honestly have no idea who you're talking about.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 24, 2010, 05:56:49 PM
Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.
You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one. But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:
I didn't call you a hypocrite.  I didn't accuse you of cheap shots.  I'd let my friend Indy get away with it because we are often at odds, and discuss Christianity regularly on this forum; in my view, his politics interfere with his faith.

Oh I see, only your friends can tell you where you're wrong,  but the rest of us have no right to criticize on issues that are relevant to us as well? Sorry man, the 1st Amendment isn't for friends and VIP's only.  We all have a right to an opinion.
Umaril, don't lump me in.  You don't know anything about my politics, and don't assume you do.  You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:
So I don't know anything about your politics. Yet, you slammed ME in two other threads, saying " I make you sick" and likening me to Glen Beck, and a few other chart toppers aimned at Right-Wing lunacy.
So is this to say that everyone who agrees with Beck on something is automatically a member of his elite fan club? No, you say? Then you in effect don't know MY total sphere of politics either.  But yet you seem happy lumping ME based on MY leanings.
And you have, to be fair, totally invalidated and downplayed my feelings in a few other threads in the past, while totally validating and credentializing your own feelings. And that is another way of saying that noone has a right to an opinion unless it harmonizes with yours. And that is, in it's own right, hypocrisy. It does come in different flavors, you know.

[And my statement is at the heart of Christianity, not a cheap shot.  Conservative right-wing "thinkers" like yourself are swift to condemn, and quick to define, but did you think about what I wrote?  
Swift to condemn, quick to define...is that anything like the Lefties who screamed and whined about every proposed security measures under Bush 2?  
The SAME ones who now support warrantless wiretapping, and the TSA grabbing breasts and crotches?  Oh yes, please tell me about those who are swift to condemn, and quick to define. Especially when it suits their need to support a president with a 39% approval rating, and a Congress with a rating knee-high to a grasshopper.
You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:
Oh, I'm sorry...did someone forget to tell you that this is America, and that you have the right to be offended, as well as to offend?


Hey, anyone can tell me when I'm "wrong," what I suggested was that only a friend could insult me on this forum.  Man, you love to argue, you're as guilty of anything you accuse anyone else of, plus, you can't read!  BTW, that was NOT me "slamming" you in other threads... I could even tell you who it was.  But I won't.  You can't quote properly, you can't identify different members (even the one I had to lock threads over your arguing with!) It wasn't me, so...  Go look through your own posting history (if you can figure out how to do that) to see who it was you sparred with, then come back and apologize for false accusations on top of insults.  Or why don't you look at the last time someone boo'd your karma, follow the link on the far right, and you'll see why you were called "uncivil" and with whom you argued.  Dimwit.  


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Rev. Powell on November 24, 2010, 06:15:40 PM
From the Forum Rules: (http://www.badmovies.org/forum/index.php/topic,113524.0.html)

"Rule #1:  Common Courtesy
Please be polite when posting...  Flame wars are useless, so rude and insulting behavior is not tolerated."

I trust this reminder will be enough and we will not have to lock the thread. 


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 25, 2010, 03:49:08 AM
Frankly, AHD my friend, your reply was an apples to oranges comparison and a rather cheap shot.
You mean the "yet Christ gave everything" remark? I agree. It was a very cheap shot.Funny that Left-Wingers will slam Christianity as hypocritical, and then rely on it in some instances in a straw man attempt to try to make a valid point, such as this one. But yet, only we conservatives are supposed to be the only hypocrites on the block. Even funnier...Have a good laugh, my friend, 'cause that's all a statement like that is good for.  :cheers:
I didn't call you a hypocrite.  I didn't accuse you of cheap shots.  I'd let my friend Indy get away with it because we are often at odds, and discuss Christianity regularly on this forum; in my view, his politics interfere with his faith.

Oh I see, only your friends can tell you where you're wrong,  but the rest of us have no right to criticize on issues that are relevant to us as well? Sorry man, the 1st Amendment isn't for friends and VIP's only.  We all have a right to an opinion.
Umaril, don't lump me in.  You don't know anything about my politics, and don't assume you do.  You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:
So I don't know anything about your politics. Yet, you slammed ME in two other threads, saying " I make you sick" and likening me to Glen Beck, and a few other chart toppers aimned at Right-Wing lunacy.
So is this to say that everyone who agrees with Beck on something is automatically a member of his elite fan club? No, you say? Then you in effect don't know MY total sphere of politics either.  But yet you seem happy lumping ME based on MY leanings.
And you have, to be fair, totally invalidated and downplayed my feelings in a few other threads in the past, while totally validating and credentializing your own feelings. And that is another way of saying that noone has a right to an opinion unless it harmonizes with yours. And that is, in it's own right, hypocrisy. It does come in different flavors, you know.

[And my statement is at the heart of Christianity, not a cheap shot.  Conservative right-wing "thinkers" like yourself are swift to condemn, and quick to define, but did you think about what I wrote?  
Swift to condemn, quick to define...is that anything like the Lefties who screamed and whined about every proposed security measures under Bush 2?  
The SAME ones who now support warrantless wiretapping, and the TSA grabbing breasts and crotches?  Oh yes, please tell me about those who are swift to condemn, and quick to define. Especially when it suits their need to support a president with a 39% approval rating, and a Congress with a rating knee-high to a grasshopper.
You're a newbie here, and frankly, you've p**sed me off.   :hatred:
Oh, I'm sorry...did someone forget to tell you that this is America, and that you have the right to be offended, as well as to offend?


Hey, anyone can tell me when I'm "wrong," what I suggested was that only a friend could insult me on this forum.  Man, you love to argue, you're as guilty of anything you accuse anyone else of, plus, you can't read!  BTW, that was NOT me "slamming" you in other threads... I could even tell you who it was.  But I won't.  You can't quote properly, you can't identify different members (even the one I had to lock threads over your arguing with!) It wasn't me, so...  Go look through your own posting history (if you can figure out how to do that) to see who it was you sparred with, then come back and apologize for false accusations on top of insults.  Or why don't you look at the last time someone boo'd your karma, follow the link on the far right, and you'll see why you were called "uncivil" and with whom you argued.  Dimwit.  

Interesting.  So Karma Points are a big deal? As if they have anything to do with the value of my daily life.   They are not a true indication of a person's worth or intelligence in the real world.

Uncivil? But yet you're calling me names, such as "dimwit" as well as your other shepie shots. I never called you any names in any past thread, and I'm being rather civil to you now. I think that's your problem, you can't upset me.

Insults? I don't namecall.  And there have been past insults lodged at me w\o any real provocation other than a differing opinion, but I suppose that was OK.  Care to call those wrong?

I've been rather civil in the past (sometimes) as I am doing now, only to have it thrown back at me when the time came to find a reason to lock a thread.  So if this thread gets locked, it'll most likely be both of us resp. for it, and not one.

So on that note, I'll see you down at the end of lonely street, at Heartbreak Hotel. the first drink is on me.   :cheers:


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Umaril The Unfeathered on November 25, 2010, 03:52:36 AM
From the Forum Rules: ([url]http://www.badmovies.org/forum/index.php/topic,113524.0.html[/url])

"Rule #1:  Common Courtesy
Please be polite when posting...  Flame wars are useless, so rude and insulting behavior is not tolerated."

I trust this reminder will be enough and we will not have to lock the thread. 


Accepted.


Title: Re: Millionaires to Obama: Tax us
Post by: Allhallowsday on November 25, 2010, 07:20:14 AM
I really wish you'd learn how to post on this website if you're going to quote. 
Don't you get it?  You have confused me with another member.  False accusations one should never sit still for.  Plus, I was not the one who called you "uncivil".  Did you look at your own karma to learn who it was you had argued with (and the person who referred to you as "uncivil" was NOT the person you butted heads with).  Yes I call you Dimwit, because that's how you behave.  But I only wish you PEACE.
Happy Thanksgiving.