Badmovies.org Forum

Today, the state of New South Wales held an election.  The Liberal Party won (akin to the US Republicans) and they ousted the Labor Party (equiv. Democrats).  The new leader is right now making his acceptance/victory speech and he's blathering on about what he's going to do for the state and the people.

And I'm sitting here thinking to myself, "stop lying you deceitful b.astard!".  I've heard those kinds of promises so many times before from politicians and it makes me sick.  How can the public keep falling for the same old lies?  How is it that these pollies can get up in front of a podium and say stuff that they never end up delivering on?

I don't live in New South Wales but I was born there and lived there for a large part of my life.  And things aren't better, they are worse.

Maybe I'm just cynical but I find myself rolling my eyes and hoping like heck that the zombies take over.  At least then we won't have to listen to the drivel of liars any more.

It'll be like here in Victoria: the Libs promise to do so much, but then a few months in realise they can't keep their promise and backflip on all their key promises.

The Liberals are pretty horrible [Tony Abbott is the scariest human on the planet in my eyes] but to be fair, the Labour party in NSW were pretty terrible: four Premiers in four years is not a great lead up to an election.
 :bluesad:

A goil after me own heart!  :thumbup:

I agree=they're a bunch of lying salesmen-once the sale is made,they are out for number one. We,across the world in Michigan,have a self serving a***ole by the name of Rick Snyder as governor of our already in the s**t can state making things worse by raising taxes,f*cking school teachers,and now he wants to tax senior citizens retirement funds! Gawd dam milker! (Oh-milker is a term used to describe people who dont work-they just suck the tit of those that do.)
ARGH! Makes me wanna turn into an anarchist!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBojbjoMttI

same her, all of these promises that are just words. :hatred:

I Agree, with you all.  It seems that most of them are the most corrupt self serving ill informed people, and they steer our society.  They do it by pandering to any one who supports them, and lining their own pockets.

I can relate. I live in Wisconsin and you all probably heard what the Governor did.  :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred: :hatred:

We can't do a Politicians Topic without...

I summon to the field...

Indianasmith and lester1/2jr! :thumbup:

It's just a better read when they get involved. (Cue the music!)

That amuses to no end that the liberal party is the aussie eqivalent of the republicans here. People here hurl the words conservative and liberal as if they were insults.

I hear that. Tony Abbott scares the heck out of me too.  He's particularly scary to women.  If he gets anywhere near real power, all our personal freedoms will be demolished.  He's not only incompetent and backwards, he's a moron too boot.  A completely scary combination.

New South Wales is pretty much stuffed at the outset.  The Libs will run the state into the ground worse than Labor and I won't be surprised if there is a civil war there.  A little dramatic perhaps but when it happens you can say you heard it here first!

Hahaha, yeah I wouldn't be too surprised if they just collapsed on themselves.

The thing about Abbott that gets me is that he embodies all the things I don't like in a politician: he's a climate denier, anti feminist [or at least he doesn't seem to have a good understanding of women in general] and he's just that little bit too religious that I think it will get in the way of his politics [in my mind, that's a dangerous combination.]

That and the fact that he'll probably win the next election is just scary...

It's a personal hatred of mine when a man starts talking about my personal reproductive rights.  Men have no idea what it is to carry a child, give birth to a child and deal with all the physical and emotional issues that come with all of that.  They also have no idea what it is to be a victim of sexual asault that could result in a child and the heartbreaking decisions that go along with that either. 

Considering he has 3 daughters of his own, I'm surprised he's not more progressive, even with his religious beliefs.  But I can bet my left earlobe that his daughters aren't the squeaky clean girls he thinks they are.  Whenever you have parents who are oppressive in some way, the kids always rebel.

Hmmm . . . dare I stick my toe into this water?

OK, I teach U.S. government, and I'm a fairly conservative Republican on most issues.

I think most people who go into politics do so with good intentions.  The system itself becomes corrupting over time.  The good guys try to let the corruption touch them as little as possible and do what they believe to be right, that will give the most benefit to the greatest number of people.  The rest get sucked into the system, do favors for those who give favors in return, and ultimately care only about either being re-elected or else elected to higher office than the one they currently hold.  But it is very hard from the outside to tell which is which.  What appears to be a political payoff might be just that - or it might be the least objectionable option available.

I realize that abortion is explosive ground to step on, and I am not trying to hurt anyone's feelings - especially you, KB, because you are one of my favorite people.  I am a strong believer in reproductive choice when it comes to people choosing whether or not to have sex and choosing whether or not to use contraception.  But for me, abortion always comes down to snuffing out a human life.  I can't get over that.  Two beating hearts go into a clinic, only one comes out.  As much respect as I have for women, as much belief as I have in individual freedom, I just can't take it that far.  Not because I am some reactionary Neanderthal thug, but because I love children.  Sexual assault cases are, of course, the number one thing that those who believe in abortion always throw in the face of those who think like me.  That, and incest.  Those are horrible, horrible things, and those who perpetrate them, quite frankly, merit a death penalty in my point of view.  Statistically speaking, those activities - especially rape - very, very rarely result in pregnancy.  When they do, it is a terrible conundrum.  I can fully understand that no woman wants to bear the child of someone who abused her.  But doesn't ending that child's life in the womb simply create another victim of the crime?  One who is absolutely and completely innocent?

  I hope that the above does not anger anyone.  I simply think that the whole pro-life position is all to often attributed to misogyny, and that is usually incorrect.  I hope that, someday, human morality and contraceptive technology will combine to create a world where every child is loved and cherished as much as I love and cherish my daughters.

Hey Indy, thanks for your input.  I have no trouble with pro-life people thinking the way they do.  What annoys me is when people with that POV try to tell me I'm wrong and that I don't have the right to make a choice about what happens to my body.  I've NEVER told a pro-life person they are wrong or immoral I just think "whatever" and leave them to their choices and beliefs.  Differences of opinion are what makes the world go around and pushes us forward culturally and technologically.

What worries me about this politician is that if he gets into power, he will take away the choices women have.  Democracy is all about freedom and choice, not the politician's belief system.  Right now we have choices in this country and I like that.  Take away those choices and we will have civil war.

No one has the right to impose their beliefs on another person.  History has taught us that way leads to disaster, war and xenophobia.

I, for one, will use my vote to keep him out of power.  As a voting citizen of this country it would be remiss of me to do anything less.

"No one has the right to impose their beliefs on another person."?

Doesn't that pretty much do away with all law, then?  What is law but the collective belief of a majority of society that certain acts are wrong - wrong enough that they should be declared illegal?

I'm not sure I buy the argument.

Well said, Indy, and I raise my glass to you to salute your well-worded thoughts again!

You have just as much right to speak on abortion as anyone else, despite the potential for the usual division, anger, and bitterness between the sexes that comes with it.

If it takes a man and a woman to create a child, then should it not take both of the same to discuss the possibility of ending that life? And shouldn't every alternative be thought of before taking that final step from which there is no return?

Adoption, now there's a thought    Many men (and women) are incapable of conception\reproduction  and would love to have a child of their own.  Why not make their dreams come true, and know that you've brought joy into their lives?

Another weighty decision, yes, but one where life and love prevail. Would this not be better?

Lastly, apologies for any toes I might have stepped on here. It's just a thought and not intended as any prescribed method.  Peace  :smile:

Personally I lie within the Libertarian Party of the United States.  I have nothing against anyone who's a Democrat or Republican, but I can't see myself siding with them on many issues.  Not saying that all Libertarians are perfect or that the others are all wrong, it's just not where I lie on a personal level.  The fact more people aren't with the party is baffling though.  But I'm new to this area so I can't debate all that well right now.

There is a strange paradox in the pro-choice/pro-life debate that I don't many people take into account. The problem doesn't really rest with the "where does life begin" issue. The real issue is that the law has NEVER considered human life to begin until birth, and this is true across most countries of or influenced greatly by Western culture. Why? Because the legal system bases it's opinion of where life begins on 200+-year-old science. Humanity simply could not see human life at all before birth, and so human life was simply non-existent. This is understandable. You can't give legal protection to that which you can't see.

The paradox comes in when you look at the traditional definitions of conservative vs liberal, as defined in the U.S., not Australia. I've stated earlier that it amuses me that liberal would have an almost reverse definition to that applied to the word in this country, which is exactly why I NEVER define myself thusly. The paradox is that conservatives are actually the ones trying to change the legal definition of where life begins, which has always been at birth rather than conception, while liberals, whether they know it or not, are actually trying to hold on to that definition.

A further paradox is that liberals (again, as typically identified in the US, not Australia), who would typically claim to favor science over faith, refuse to acknowledge that science actually supports pro-life in that it pretty clearly identifies where life begins, which is actually before the heart starts beating. So, you have liberals trying to defend a position that rests on old legal definitions created by WASPs, and conservatives trying to defend a position that the law does NOT support, but that science does. It's a very confusing debate to me, and paradoxical on it's very foundation.

I'm not taking a position either way in the legal debate here, ladies and gentlemen, just providing a bit of social commentary of my own. Personally I go with the scientific identification of where a human life begins. The legal definition of life begins when a birth certificate is issued, and so until that definition is changes, the unborn have no legal protection.

An interesting take on the issue, to be sure.. 

My personal feeling is that IF an abortion is for a valid reason (birth defects\disease, or complications threatening the life of the mother) then the decision has some merit. Naturally, a mother would prefer to live, and I can't fault that.

However, just to wipe the slate clean of "the night before" or to use it to spite someone,  or any other decision based on personal whim, or pressure from another person, seems a bit unjust.  In the end, the only one who gets hurt is the child.

Ultimately, the woman herself must live with the weight of her decision.  And, I would suspect that there are some women who wind up regretting the decision, who spend the rest of their lives wondering "what might have been." So, while some women may seem comfortable about their decision to end a life, we really don't know their true feelings, given that motherhood (and the choice to end a life growing inside of her) is such a strong bond.

Aside from the emotional impact, there must also be some psycholgical impact as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ5cGYBV2TQ

I'll express my opinion through the use of this near classic 1960's cartoon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KvNt5NG-GM&feature=related

Flick, just to help your definitions a little, it's the Liberal party here, capital L.  So if you're a liberal scumbag, it is somewhat different than being a Liberal scumbag.   :thumbup:

Either way we can agree they're all scumbags!

As to the abortion issue, this is probably not the thread for it. 

We've finally got a federal election declared here, although you'd never know the difference, what with campaign ads running constantly anyway, just in case. In Canada, the two major parties, Conservative and Liberal, regardless of what they say, have become pretty much interchangeable in terms of what they do. Both stick pretty close to the middle ground when you get right down to it, although the party in opposition will always condemn the decisions of the party in power, as though they'd have done it differently.

We have other parties who stick closer to certain ideals, which I admire, but I find they can be too focused on certain issues, not flexible enough in their thinking, and lacking the ability to form a functioning government if they suddenly found themselves in that position.

This time around, I'm hoping for a Conservative majority, mainly because they're doing a reasonably good job, I don't particularly think a change of government is a smart idea right now, and I would like to see a government securely installed for a change. Canada's had nothing but minority governments for most of a decade, and it's kept all of the parties in perpetual campaign mode, in case somebody calls or forces an election. I don't know how much effort the parties waste on maintaining a state of election readiness, or on constantly judging whether an election would be to their advantage, but I imagine it is significant, and it's effort I'd rather our elected officials put into doing their jobs.

 :bouncegiggle:

That's hilarious. That's how it is here with the Republicans and Democrats. I've been saying it all along, but people think I'm nuts, they're just two sides of the same damn coin.