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Other Topics => Weird News Stories => Topic started by: Derf on February 02, 2012, 08:13:36 AM



Title: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Derf on February 02, 2012, 08:13:36 AM
I can see their reasoning, but REALLY?!?!?

The story. (http://news.yahoo.com/sugar-regulated-toxin-researchers-180605186.html)


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: AndyC on February 02, 2012, 09:47:14 AM
Oh cripes. This kind of melodramatic BS always annoys me. Too much sugar is bad for you in the long term, but it ain't toxic. At least no more than anything else. Even water can be toxic if you drink enough all at once. I hate it when people abuse and misuse words to make a point.

And this particular nonsense is nothing new. I can remember in high school, back in the 80s, reading an article (by Dr. David Suzuki no less) about people treating refined sugar as poison, and why it was wrong.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: indianasmith on February 02, 2012, 08:45:14 PM
Oh geez.  Yet another opportunity for the nanny state to run amok! :hatred:


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: WildHoosier09 on February 02, 2012, 09:20:23 PM
according to a commentary in the current issue of the journal Nature by researchers at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF)."

The sad part about this story is that a journal as reputable as Nature carried it. Even though just as an opinion piece which it is.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: ulthar on February 02, 2012, 09:58:26 PM

 a journal as reputable as Nature


That "reputation" depends entirely on who you ask.

Some of us would NOT be surprised they carried this... :lookingup:

Really, if you look at the 'record' of Nature over the past, I don't know, let's say two decades, you start to think that the reputation of old can carry water only so long.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Flick James on February 03, 2012, 02:14:53 AM
Well, on one hand I think the rise in use of high-fructose corn syrup and the corresponding rise in obesity is a correlary that probably shouldn't be ignored. Also, the massive amounts of money spent by the corn industry in trying to convince us that the body treats fructose and sucrose the same is highly suspect. The whole "sugar is sugar" line is immediatly fishy to me. That's like saying "acid is acid." So, the body can't tell the difference between citric and hydrochloric acid? Hmmm.

On the other hand, we live in an age when objective science is nearly non-existent. Sadly, too many studies are funded by agenda-driven entities.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: tracy on February 04, 2012, 01:40:43 PM
Tell me what to eat....tell me what to do...tell me what to think....tell me how to live....tell me how to breathe.... :lookingup:


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: alandhopewell on February 04, 2012, 01:43:52 PM
     I'll take Paul Lynde to block....

(http://cdn102.iofferphoto.com/img/item/358/726/91/Poo-Lynde-1.jpg)


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: WildHoosier09 on February 04, 2012, 06:29:09 PM

 a journal as reputable as Nature


That "reputation" depends entirely on who you ask.

Some of us would NOT be surprised they carried this... :lookingup:

Really, if you look at the 'record' of Nature over the past, I don't know, let's say two decades, you start to think that the reputation of old can carry water only so long.

I would come up with a whitty retort but then I think about the number of times I've actually referenced the journal Nature. ....,,, I think once or twice in college. I was young and experimental and Nature was just there lying on my bed, talking about its dreams for the future with its bra strap casually slipping off its shoulder...

Maybe you are right about Nature, afterwards that slut got referenced by my roommate too.

In all seriousness, in my field I spend alot more time using Journal of Controlled Release and Biomaterials.  So Ulthar as one scientist to another (and in case your curious I put a few teaspons of sugar in my coffee everyday) what is your favorite journal?


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: ulthar on February 04, 2012, 09:11:16 PM

 So Ulthar as one scientist to another (and in case your curious I put a few teaspons of sugar in my coffee everyday) what is your favorite journal?


Favorite?  Don't really have one.

Read a lot of Journal of Chemical Physics, Journal of Physical Chemistry and International Journal of Mass Spectrometry and Ion Processes back in the day.

My first publication was in Journal of the American Society for Mass Spectrometry, so, for that reason I guess, I always had a fondness, at least until it just became too diverse.

It's not really a journal, but the American Physical Society publication Physics Today was always a favorite, too.  More of a trade journal, it was different and INCREDIBLY informative...the articles were extremely well written for generalist audiences.

Another trade rag I really like (and regretted giving up my subscription) is Ocean Navigator.  It's pretty far off the topic of peer reviewed chemistry journals, though, but I did want to "plug" it.  Good stuff and very professional (at least it was ... )

JACS annoyed me more than anything, though there was the occasional gem.

I NEVER held Nature in much esteem.  It always seemed overblown and too rife with self-aggrandizement and shoulder patting...

I find most journals these days to be full of articles poorly written JAFMO (if you know that acronym), so specialized that the audience, even in so-called specialized journals, is extremely narrow.  The leaps of logic, non-sequitors and lack of focus on basic principles have really put me out of mind to even bother.

When I need something specific, the material I need is usually but a Chem Abstracts search away.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: WildHoosier09 on February 05, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
Must admit, I don't know JAFMO...?

I agree on the biggest pet peeves on these. Mine is spotty or poorly written materials and methods sections followed by grandiose claims.  Bad grammer and English (sorry, but by the time it hits print it should have been at least proof-read by a native speaker) have in my experience been downright dangerous. I've worked on a reaction where luckily I moved my hand fast enough to avoid the billowing HCl gas after misunderstanding the difference between "add reagents then heat solution to 80C" versus "heat solution to 80C then add reagents".

The "article" here is a perfect example of poor M&M:

"Fructose is processed in the liver, therefore fructose is the evil which the US govt should make priority one to get rid of."

To properly believe such grand policy suggestions I would expect this paper to have a materials and methods section written out roughly as follows:
"A randomly selected group of people large enough to be reasonably representative of the USA (minimum 1% of population so at least 3 million) was subjected to the proposed rules including minimum sugar age, taxes on sugar, etc. while a control group of equal size was not subjected to any regulations. These groups were followed over the course of 30 years. After 30 years the de-sugared group had a statistically significant reduction in incidence of obesity, diabetes, and other related diseases (p-Value <0.001) as compared to the control group" this you could make some (not all) but at least some claims to justifying a policy from a results perspective.

I'll need to check into this research maybe it was brought to us by the makers of truvia.  I disagree with this policy anyhow, while we tax sugar why not tax salt and lipids too since they are bad. Actually maybe we should all sit on the govt.'s knee and get our noses wiped, be burped, and swaddled for bed while we're at it.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: The Gravekeeper on February 05, 2012, 07:01:04 PM
I see where they're coming from, because yes, sugar is way too abundant now. However, rather than taxing it, maybe educating the general public better about the health problems associated with high sugar intake (particularly if such habits are formed in childhood) and teaching people where to look for and how to prepare low-sugar meals would probably do a lot more good than just making people pay more for their groceries.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: El Misfit on February 06, 2012, 12:43:39 AM
sayin sugar is a toxin is dumb, I thought these people wanted it to ;abelled as a drug, since it's more addicting than crack.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: indianasmith on February 06, 2012, 07:15:55 AM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: tracy on February 06, 2012, 04:06:32 PM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:
I miss Dr Pepper....that diet stuff is awful! :bluesad:


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Mofo Rising on February 07, 2012, 03:46:51 AM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:

Exactly.

Garbage article. It's a popular way for bad reporters to trump up their articles by lumping scientists into one large group, as if all of them thought the same.

You've got two scientists here, chemists no less, ulthar and WildHoosier09, who are befuddled by the stupidity.

JAFMO is a new one on me anyway.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: ulthar on February 07, 2012, 10:06:51 AM

Garbage article. It's a popular way for bad reporters to trump up their articles by lumping scientists into one large group, as if all of them thought the same.


{cough} AGW {cough}


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Cthulhu on February 14, 2012, 05:18:47 PM
f**k no. People won't rest until they f**k everything up for others.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: tracy on February 15, 2012, 01:34:37 PM
f**k no. People won't rest until they f**k everything up for others.
I agree here....some people just seem bent on screwing up things simply for the hell of it.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on February 22, 2012, 04:58:44 PM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:
I miss Dr Pepper....that diet stuff is awful! :bluesad:

We'll try to let everybody down easy, but . . . ?

The last Dr. Pepper bottling plant that used pure cane sugar in its bottling process was in Dublin, Texas, and, as of, January, of this year, the plant ceased bottling Dr. Pepper. Thus, unlike Coke, Dr. Pepper is solely made out of high frutose corn syrup.


I say, thus, unlike Coke, because--supposedly--there are still bottling plants in Mexico that still use pure cane sugar in the bottling process.

I have never had a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, or, at least, I can never remember having a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, but people who have, swear by it. Saying it is much better than the same soft drink made with high frutose corn syrup.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Flick James on February 22, 2012, 06:01:20 PM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:
I miss Dr Pepper....that diet stuff is awful! :bluesad:

We'll try to let everybody down easy, but . . . ?

The last Dr. Pepper bottling plant that used pure cane sugar in its bottling process was in Dublin, Texas, and, as of, January, of this year, the plant ceased bottling Dr. Pepper. Thus, unlike Coke, Dr. Pepper is solely made out of high frutose corn syrup.


I say, thus, unlike Coke, because--supposedly--there are still bottling plants in Mexico that still use pure cane sugar in the bottling process.

I have never had a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, or, at least, I can never remember having a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, but people who have, swear by it. Saying it is much better than the same soft drink made with high frutose corn syrup.

I have had Coca-Cola with pure cane sugar, and it is delicious. I can taste the difference. There are those that would say I am full of s**t and there is no difference, and that's okay if they do, but to me it is fairly distinct. However, I've been told I have a good palate, so I may be more sensitive to taste nuances than the average bear.

I think the article posted is pretty ridiculous, but I am certainly skeptical of the claim that "sugar is sugar." The corn industry is spending a lot of money to convince us of that. The body does not treat all sugars the same, simply because different sugars break down differently. So for a major industry to suggest that all sugars are the same is suspect to say the very least.

There are a number of factors to contemplate regarding the rise in obesity in the U.S., several corollaries to consider. I'm not saying that high-fructose corn syrup is the reason for this rise, but it would be foolish to ignore the corollary between the rise in obesity and the predominance of high-fructose corn syrup as a sweetener. But it gets more complicated than just that. Not only has high fructose corn syrup become the dominant sweetener due to its lower cost and ease of transport, but that fact alone means that more things are getting sweetened than ever before. It continues to be used increasingly in items on fast food menus everywhere. So sugar use in general has gone up substantially. So, it could be that the corollary is the use of HFCS vs. cane sugar, or the rise in sugar use in general, or a bit of both. Nothing has been proven conclusively.



Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: WildHoosier09 on February 23, 2012, 09:21:45 PM
a recent epiphany changes my view on this issue completely.....

I can grow sugar beets in my backyard. processing sugar isn't exactly particle physics, pretty easy to do in your kitchen. With a nice hefty black market markup I can roll in the money on this one.

dear govt. please ban sugar....
 :cheers:


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: ulthar on February 23, 2012, 10:47:08 PM

 so I may be more sensitive to taste nuances than the average bear.



Bears probably should not be drinking Coca Cola anyway...it makes them cranky.


Yo Yo Yo YOGIIIIIIII


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Flick James on February 24, 2012, 09:40:52 AM

 so I may be more sensitive to taste nuances than the average bear.



Bears probably should not be drinking Coca Cola anyway...it makes them cranky.


Yo Yo Yo YOGIIIIIIII

I challenge you to find some data on that, ulthar.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: ulthar on February 24, 2012, 01:29:16 PM

I challenge you to find some data on that, ulthar.




 :teddyr: :bouncegiggle: :cheers:

This guy could have had a Coke, eh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skGR7oMY3cE


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Frank81 on March 08, 2012, 12:14:25 PM
I can see their reasoning, but REALLY?!?!?

The story. ([url]http://news.yahoo.com/sugar-regulated-toxin-researchers-180605186.html[/url])


Let's  see, how  can I put this  politely.. I'll F$#K'N eat  anything I Damn please and  these  researchers and the Govt. hacks  can go  F#@%  themselves.  :hatred:   :teddyr:  The new establishment  that  was said to replace the old establishment is  aging baby boomer/Yippies  who now want to control everything from speech to what  goes into my body and  comes out the other  end. They are the most anal retentive  people in history.  I will watch my own health, I want nothing from them, health care, food, shelter, stay the F#$% away from me, before  me and millions of  others get fed up enough and come find you.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: tracy on March 08, 2012, 01:28:56 PM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:
I miss Dr Pepper....that diet stuff is awful! :bluesad:

We'll try to let everybody down easy, but . . . ?

The last Dr. Pepper bottling plant that used pure cane sugar in its bottling process was in Dublin, Texas, and, as of, January, of this year, the plant ceased bottling Dr. Pepper. Thus, unlike Coke, Dr. Pepper is solely made out of high frutose corn syrup.


I say, thus, unlike Coke, because--supposedly--there are still bottling plants in Mexico that still use pure cane sugar in the bottling process.

I have never had a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, or, at least, I can never remember having a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, but people who have, swear by it. Saying it is much better than the same soft drink made with high frutose corn syrup.
I loved the Dublin Dr Pepper.....the current stuff can ease the desires but the Dublin just plain tasted best.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: Flick James on March 09, 2012, 02:43:14 PM
You can have my Dr. Peppr when you pry it from my cold, dead hands . . . . :hatred:
I miss Dr Pepper....that diet stuff is awful! :bluesad:

We'll try to let everybody down easy, but . . . ?

The last Dr. Pepper bottling plant that used pure cane sugar in its bottling process was in Dublin, Texas, and, as of, January, of this year, the plant ceased bottling Dr. Pepper. Thus, unlike Coke, Dr. Pepper is solely made out of high frutose corn syrup.


I say, thus, unlike Coke, because--supposedly--there are still bottling plants in Mexico that still use pure cane sugar in the bottling process.

I have never had a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, or, at least, I can never remember having a soft drink made with pure cane sugar, but people who have, swear by it. Saying it is much better than the same soft drink made with high frutose corn syrup.
I loved the Dublin Dr Pepper.....the current stuff can ease the desires but the Dublin just plain tasted best.

I'm not the only one who can taste the difference. Thank you.


Title: Re: Scientists Want Sugar Regulated As a Toxin
Post by: tracy on March 09, 2012, 03:58:49 PM
I am a Diabetic so I consume right at no sugar....just once in a long while I will treat myself. Now,many are saying that just about every sugar substitute is bad for you. WTF!?! I love my sweet things so it's becoming too confusing. :bluesad: