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Any of you remember a film call Johnny Got His Gun?  This film that was based on a novel by Dalton Thrombo the Government tried to censor because they feared it would severely lower military drafts.
Well this film revolved around a guy who after being hit with a howitzer, lost his limbs and face.  He had to live his life (if you call that a life) in a military hospital wearing a mask to cover his horrible disfigurement.  Only getting nourishment though tube feeding.

Now I can't imagine anyone being forced to live that way.  This guy was not able to enjoy life by any stretch of the imagination.  The decent thing the hospital could do was let him die.  But they didn't.  By their twisted reasoning, they were forcing him to live.

Now I know this is based on any real event.  And I have never read anything about anybody being forced to live this way.

But here is the question.  Do any of you know beyond a shadow of a doubt how modern medicine treats patients like these?  I've tried to ask medical professionals, but they are either uncomfortable answering the question, won't answer the question or just evade it.
Good luck answering it.

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A long response zombie #1, but I don't get the point, and WyreDick...the answer is simply a society and government still attached at the hip to archaic religious ideals of it is more godly to let someone suffer than to end their suffering...as suffering is part of their penance for being human.  :lookingup:

Zombie, please don't ever do that.

Menard, are you talking old societies and old ways of thinking?  Because I have noticed over the years that government and modern medicine have did things that try to LIMIT human suffering.  Governments try to limit human suffering by toppling dictatorships like the Taliban, Saddam Hussein and many others.  Modern medicine limits human suffering with the use of pain relievers, pain suppressors, anesthetics, sedatives and symptom blocking drugs.

Very interesting answer, Menard, TYVM.  You make a very good debater.

sorry dude. I've been sent sideways by an overdose of WyreWizard. Future transmissions may be sketchy. Pray for me.

I would assume that doctors would treat Johnny the same way they would treat a patient in an irreversible coma---i.e. if he had no living will his next of kin would decide whether to take extraordinary measures to keep him alive with no hope of recovery. I think WW actually poses a slightly interesting question of medical ethics. I'll ask a doctor next time I see one. Maybe Zap will chime in.

If you don't want what happened to Johnny to happen to you, get a living will.

By the way, WW, your signature contains many reality flaws. For example, I have never been offered a choice between "phantom fears and kindness that can kill." Who would even offer me such a choice? "Some celestial voice"? "Celestial" means "from a star," and stars don't even have vocal cords to form a simple syllable! These kinds of reality flaws are the reason I hate 99.9% of modern lyrics.

Zombie #1

Could you edit that down to just one Gumby? That's a whole lot of scrolling to have to go through as it is.

Is this thread worth scrolling through?

My post is great!  :bluesad:

I'd presume by your reply the answer to your own question is "no", but there are others on this board who would prefer to make that decision for themselves and not have it made for them...just sayin'.

Actually, yeah, that's true - I must admit that I hadn't read it yet when I asked that.  I saw it was a Wyre post and figured it was nonsense followed by people pointing out that it's nonsense.

In fairness, I didn't make the decision for them - I asked the question, which then allows them to make that decision for themselves.  just sayin'...

No, you did not make the decision, you just asked and I answered.

I suppose, but not really (mine was a pretty clear yes or no question).  Your reply certainly came across as accusing me of deciding for everyone that this thread was NOT worth scrolling through.  If I read it wrong, then so be it (but I don't think I did).

It was not my intention to accuse you. You just simply asked if the thread was worth scrolling through in response to me asking Zombie #1 to edit the reply. Obviously you had made your decision that it was not and so had Zombie #1, but myself and I presume others (and you can accuse me of presuming) had not made that decision.

Believe what you want to believe, though. If I come off as an a$$hole...that's only because I am one. :teddyr:

Same here, so it's all good!  In fact, "I'm an a$$hole" was the first thing I used when my wife first asked me to describe myself when we first met...

No, but I know the book. 

No.  None of us here know beyond a shadow of a doubt.  There are always extenuating circumstances to consider in special cases such as this.   


There.  I answered your questions.  And you didn't think I could do it!

The book was written around 1930 by Dalton Trumbo as an expression of the futility of war - an idea that drove the great pacifist movement of the 1930's.  When World War II broke out, Trumbo himself granted permission for the government to censor the book - like many 1930's pacifists, he realized that one-way pacifism was a sure ticket to global fascist domination.

It is perhaps the most depressing book ever written in the English language.  I knew Metallica had done a video based on it, but I was not aware there was a movie . . .

Have I ever read the book? no.
Have I ever seen the movie? No.


here the song-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT6vqeL-ysI&ob=av2n

I had seen the movie 20 years ago.  It was a very disturbing film to say the least.  I have one favorite part.  Its the part towards the end of the movie when the patient is nodding his head in morse code, expressing his wish to die. I remember the general turned to the chaplain to ask him for some inspirational words to give the patient.  The chaplain turned to the general and said "He's a product of YOUR profession.  Not mine."  I like that part because that chaplain was putting that twisted general in his place.  I also liked the part later when they all leave the room saved for the nurse.  The nurse, being the caring and sympathetic woman she was, clamped his breathing tube and held his chest down so his diaphram wouldn't be able to draw in more air, even though she had clamped his breathing tube.  I thought that was the saving grace for the film.  But that twisted general came in, pulled her away from the patient and removed the clamp.  To this day, I am thoroughly disgusted with that.  That's why I call that general twisted.  All he did was increase that patient's suffering exponentially.  That is why I rate Johnny Got His Gun as a bad movie.  The ending was terrible.

Now if there is any reality flaws in Johnny Got His Gun, I see only 2.

The patient being able to feel the vibrations of footsteps on a hard masonry floor while on a bed.  First off, hard masonry doesn't vibrate very much.  And with a human or several humans walking on it, the vibrations wouldn't go anywhere, even if the people were 300 pounds each walking with hard-soled shoes.  Another problem was the patient was able to feel the vibrations while on a bed with a mattress.  Even if the floor were made of wood which would permit vibrations to go longer distances, he still wouldn't feel them.  Because his mattress would absorb them.

Another problem I see is the patient making quick use of his tactile senses just days after becoming the way he is.  This guy has spent most of the 20 years of his life relying on his sight, hearing and sense of smell.  He used his tactile senses very little during those years.  If you and I were put in this guy's place it would take many years to learn this, and not only learn it, but for the body to grow the tactile nerves to enhance your tactile sense.  In reality, all he would feel are the nurses touching his chest, that officer tapping morse code on his forehead, and the sunlight on his exposed parts or as its heating up his coverings a little.

For anyone who wants to see it, the movie is on Netflix instant streaming...

So if JOHNNY GOT HIS GUN had a "happy" ending you'd rate it as a good movie?

Actually I think the main problem with JGHG is that a lot of the acting is terrible, particularly by a young Timothy Bottoms. Part of the problem is that Trumbo insisted on directing himself even though he had no experience. It could have been a masterpiece with a more accomplished director and a different lead.

The best scene is when he hallucinates Donald Sutherland as Christ trying to give Johnny advice. I think that must be the bleakest moment ever put on film.

I Think its a great book and a great film.
And Weenie Woffer made you guys fight each other.  :bluesad:
f**k him.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PV-aK8jPPtI
 Wired Wizard-Does this kinda s**t make you happy?

I agree it's a great book and (great but flawed) movie.

But I don't agree WW made us fight each other.

His posts are pretty weird but surprisingly enough the topics often start decent discussions.

Don't let him get under your skin RC! How can you take him so seriously?

Likewise, why do you let a guy like WW have so much power over you? He's been around long enough to have earned the right to be here, whatever annoyance he may be to you or me, and he IS an annoyance.  :bouncegiggle:

Anyway, I look at this site a little like a family, and like the saying goes, there's one in every family.

I think I've seen this family in movies, the likes of Texas Chainsaw Massacre and The Hills Have Eyes.

BTW, I understand your position on the other thread, Menard. My thing is, I don't see the need to let a guy like WW get on one's nerves. You made the salient point that RC's thread served little purpose but to feed whatever need WW has. WW can post whatever it wants, and we can feel free to make fun of it, as many of us do. I don't see a problem with this arrangement.