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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: Nakuyabi on June 28, 2012, 10:49:49 AM



Title: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Nakuyabi on June 28, 2012, 10:49:49 AM
Quote
High court upholds key part of Obama health law

By MARK SHERMAN
Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) ([url]http://www.wtop.com/209/2109971/High-court-upholds-key-part-of-Obama-health-law[/url]) - The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld the vast majority of President Barack Obama's historic health care overhaul, including the hotly debated core requirement that virtually all Americans have health insurance.

The 5-4 decision means the huge overhaul, still taking effect, will proceed and pick up momentum over the next several years, affecting the way that countless Americans receive and pay for their personal medical care.

The ruling hands Obama a campaign-season victory in rejecting arguments that Congress went too far in approving the plan. However, Republicans quickly indicated they will try to use the decision to rally their supporters against what they call "Obamacare."

Stocks of hospital companies rose sharply, and insurance companies fell immediately after the decision was announced that Americans must carry health insurance or pay a penalty.

Breaking with the court's other conservative justices, Chief Justice John Roberts announced the judgment that allows the law to go forward with its aim of covering more than 30 million uninsured Americans.

The justices rejected two of the administration's three arguments in support of the insurance requirement. But the court said the mandate can be construed as a tax. "Because the Constitution permits such a tax, it is not our role to forbid it, or to pass upon its wisdom or fairness," Roberts said.

The court found problems with the law's expansion of Medicaid, but even there said the expansion could proceed as long as the federal government does not threaten to withhold states' entire Medicaid allotment if they don't take part in the law's extension.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Rev. Powell on June 28, 2012, 11:08:25 AM
Pretty much what I expected - no matter which way it went it was going to be 5-4.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: trekgeezer on June 28, 2012, 11:26:40 AM
I think Roberts  is trying to save face as chief justice due to the Citizens United Ruling , glad someone on the court has a frigging conscience.


That's all I'm going to say about the subject other than  Yahoo!    Have fun with the hollering  match that's bound to happen over this.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: El Misfit on June 28, 2012, 12:27:14 PM
I think Roberts  is trying to save face as chief justice due to the Citizens United Ruling , glad someone on the court has a frigging conscience.


That's all I'm going to say about the subject other than  Yahoo!    Have fun with the hollering  match that's bound to happen over this.

I'M GOING TO YELL AT YOU FOR MAKING YELL AT YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!! :wink:

I really have no idea why people wouldn't have health care, to expensive? My dad knows people who have been in major debt because they didn't have health care to pay for their health issues? :question: :question: I really have no idea why? To save money and not being able to pay for health issues that will debt them for a long time? Is it because that if the insurance companies get word that someone is handicapped that they'll make them pay more? If that's the case, then we just have to do the 'logical' thing and make the insurance company employees and CEO/boss(es) handicapped in the public, make the public laugh at them for being handicapped and let the company to be informed that they will have to pay more based on their own rules! Whose with me on this?:teddyr:


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: indianasmith on June 28, 2012, 03:11:44 PM
My issue with this is that it is ONE MORE ENORMOUS EXPANSION of Federal Power.  Do we really want a government whose power to tax and spend is unlimited?  I am glad that he at least temporized the majority opinon somewhat by allowing that an individual mandate under the Commerce Clause was, in fact, unconstitutional.  But this opens the door for unlimited taxation on individual behavior.  The result will be more money flooding into Washington, more massive Federal spending and debt, and much less individual liberty for American citizens. The only hope now is that a new President and Congress will repeal the mess known as Obamacare and pass reform that doesn't burn a hole in our liberties.

Incidentally, the most prescient comment I have heard thus far was from Judge Andrew Neapolitano, right after the ruling came down: "What the court has ruled is that Congress' power to regulate trade is in fact limited, but its power to tax and spend is practically unlimited."


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 28, 2012, 04:51:46 PM
agree with Indy big  :thumbdown:


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on June 28, 2012, 05:37:42 PM
Pretty much what I expected - no matter which way it went it was going to be 5-4.

What Rev. Powell said, but I expected it to be 5-4 to strike down all or most of what has been called Obamacare.

Though, I am not a bit sorry that the ruling went the other way.

One of the most interesting arguments against what the Congress passed and the President signed, I thought, was the mandate that people had to carry some form of health insurance. When--Heck!--we have mandates here in the state of Texas, where I live. I am mandated to carry auto insurance on my car, and if I don't, and I get stopped for any reason, I have to pay a fine for not carrying the insurance. I am mandated to get my car inspected once a year, so it can pass a state inspection. And if I don't get it inspected once a year, I get stopped by the police, and I have to pay a fine. Which has happened to me. Heck! If people are so against mandates, why don't they protest those mandates? Truly, not so much about mandates, but about the politics of the mandates.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see how all this plays out in the future.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 28, 2012, 06:03:10 PM
my prediction: total disaster


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: indianasmith on June 28, 2012, 06:23:25 PM
One thing the Roberts ruling DID do, however, is paint the President as a total liar.  Obama insisted up and down that the penalty assessed under his law for NOT carrying private insurance was definitely not a tax, no way, no how.  Now it has been slapped with the "T-wprd" by the highest court in the land, and it is a tax with no loopholes and no exemptions, no Earned Income Tax Credit to shield lower income Americans from paying - and we ALL know how much Americans love having their taxes raised!  This could turn out to be the day that elects Mitt Romney President.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 28, 2012, 06:59:18 PM

Jim Antle‏@jimantle


Nothing sticks it to insurance companies more than forcing the entire population to buy their products.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: ER on June 28, 2012, 09:48:33 PM
Dang, I should've saved that Edward Gorey poem I used a couple days ago in another topic for this. ("Things do not get better, but worse...")


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Mr_Vindictive on June 30, 2012, 07:56:35 AM
One thing the Roberts ruling DID do, however, is paint the President as a total liar.  Obama insisted up and down that the penalty assessed under his law for NOT carrying private insurance was definitely not a tax, no way, no how.  Now it has been slapped with the "T-wprd" by the highest court in the land, and it is a tax with no loopholes and no exemptions, no Earned Income Tax Credit to shield lower income Americans from paying - and we ALL know how much Americans love having their taxes raised!  This could turn out to be the day that elects Mitt Romney President.

Indy, I'm afraid that is just wishful thinking.  I have a feeling that Obama will end up winning the reelection.  People in general don't pay attention to the facts.  Name recognition trumps political ideas and promises to the uninformed and lazy voter.  Not to mention all of the deceased voters that will magically reanimate just to vote for Obama again.

As for the SCOTUS ruling, we have now opened Pandora's box.  The federal government now has the power to make you buy a commodity.  Now with all Americans being made to buy insurance, what will keep the companies from jacking up policy prices?  So much for individual liberty and deciding what is best for you.

We are growing into a country of sheeple without free thought. 

Choices are too hard for me.  Papa Government, please tell me how to live my life.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 30, 2012, 08:06:04 AM
I live in Massachusetts, we have , as we all know, a very similar program here created by our last governor. My premiums have gone up not down. significantly. and my plan blows.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Raffine on June 30, 2012, 08:50:23 AM
I live in Massachusetts, we have , as we all know, a very similar program here created by our last governor. My premiums have gone up not down. significantly. and my plan blows.

That fiend must be stopped!

What was his name, again?



 :teddyr:


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: El Misfit on June 30, 2012, 12:07:17 PM
Indy, this could be a good thing- my sister is Bipolar 1 and needs health insurance because she is sick. Now explain to me why not being able to have a health insurance choice is bad? See Obama wants people to have health insurance, not to have scumbags that doesn't have health insurance to make other people pay for his/her health issue(s) because he/she didn't have health insurance. And Lester- The end of the world isn't happening anytime soon, so stop acting like a child with "Total destruction". The way I see it is that you are overreacting to what Obama does based on your political stance- If Mitt Romeny did this, I Can't see you complaining about this- Hell, I would, IMO, see you congratulating him on this and bashing Obama for "not having this great idea". :lookingup:


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on June 30, 2012, 01:47:46 PM
El Misfit- my princples are the same no matter who is in power. as proof I just blasted the program that romney created in Massachusetts.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Mr_Vindictive on June 30, 2012, 02:04:45 PM
El Misfit,

I'm not pro-Obama.  I have a feeling that a lot of the people on this board who disagree with "Obamacare" also are not so fond of Romney.

As for your argument and the example involving your sister, I'm not quite sure how it applies.  My problem with the initiative is that it forces those who chose not to get health insurance to buy it.  Buying a PRODUCT should be voluntary and not a mandate from the federal government.  I have health insurance because I am lucky enough to have benefits through my job.  But, if I were to want to opt out of the insurance I should be able to without being hit with a TAX.  Especially after the president was so adamant that this was not a tax.  SCOTUS seems to think otherwise, as does everyone else.

I see this as a choice being taken away.  Government can't do much else right (trust me, I work in government) and I surely do not trust them with my well being and my insurance.  This is an issue that they should have no control over.  Don't ever tell me what is best for me.  I'd rather make an informed decision based on my experience and my life, not based on what the president says I need. 
 


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: lester1/2jr on July 04, 2012, 07:53:38 PM
here's a good summary http://t.co/OfQYDNSq


I've been knee deep in this stuff for the past day or so. Here's the bottom line as I see it

the good news is that people with pre existing conditions who couldn't get insurance will now be able to, it would appear. The bad news is that I cannot see how this is going to lower health care prices.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: HappyGilmore on July 04, 2012, 10:20:14 PM
Couple questions and concerns about this:
Basically, I only had insurance in my life once, through my old job. I got unjustly fired and with my new job, I make maybe $950 a month. I can't afford insurance, what with rent, food, electric, phone, etc bills to pay.

How much is this 'tax'?

I haven't been to the doctor in five years. Last time I saw any medical doctor was an ER trip my boss paid for cause of a work accident.

I should go to the doctor again, as apparently I may have some kinda bipolar thing going on I was informed of. There's no way I can afford the meds.


Title: Re: Roberts: "Take Your Medicine" (Drudge Headline)
Post by: Nakuyabi on July 10, 2012, 09:12:30 AM
I think it's safe to say "free" health care is going to be insanely expensive, atrociously run, and more subject to fraud and nepotism than ever. For examples of how this evil system works, see Canada (from which people who have the money regularly flee across the border here to get to the good medical care; I can only wonder where they'll flee now) and the UK (where people regularly get put on long waiting lists and suffer and die from delayed and inadequate care) and, oh yes, Romneycare in Massachusetts, which is one more reason why that state is a benighted hellhole where nobody in his right mind should want to live.

Of course, what people really think of this bill depends on how you phrase the question. Polls consistently show a substantial majority want it repealed, but if you ask about various parts of it (the no-pre-existing conditions clauses, etc.), you often see a more favorable response. It's similar to what happens if you ask people whether they want "free" ice cream: of course you'll get a mostly favorable response. However, if you ask them whether they'd like to pay for someone else to have "free" ice cream, suddenly the response is a whole lot more unfavorable. The two questions are one and the same, but a remarkable number of our fellow citizens are too dimwitted to realize this.

Bottom line: government health care will greatly boost the price of everything and benefit those "fat cats" those lying parasites in Congress pretended to be opposing, will be even worse in every way than anything that's wrong with the current system, and will be administered by the same bureaucrats currently running government schools and government post offices (into the ground). For my part, I'm voting all Republican this next election so that either this evil bill gets repealed, or else all the fools currently gloating over their evil triumph find out what it's like to have their health care administered by their political foes. (If government health care is so great, why did all the totalitarian scum who passed this atrocity shoot down an amendment that would have required them to be subject to it? Now you idiots who voted for them get to go to the back of the ever-lengthening waiting line, and serves you right.)

As in all other countries with such wretched systems, I suspect the only place we'll be able to get good service from now on will be from the black market. On the upside, with all the doctors currently considering bailing out from the system and all the Catholic clinics and hospitals that will be forced to close rather than violate their consciences, that's likely to be quite a substantial black market indeed.