Title: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 13, 2015, 03:18:10 PM Shakespeare! The greatest playwright who ever lived knew how to pull the heart strings of his audience. He killed off a kid. And to make the pathos more poignant, for the historical characters in some of his films, he sometimes reduced the age of the character. Thus . . . from his plays staged for TV and/or film adaptations, we have . . .
Romeo and Juliet (1968) of course, but . . .?! We also have . . . Henry V Henry VI, parts I-III Julius Caesar (1953) (implied) King John Macbeth Richard III and Titus Andronicus etc. Next time: definitions and rules Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on August 23, 2015, 01:57:01 PM Rules and definitions
Death is . . . comedic dramatic emphatic horrorific sympathetic tragic Death is for . . . defining foreshadowing motivating surprising all of the above none of the above For most part . . . The death occurs on screen. Not off screen. SEEN! The death is not implied, but . . .?! shown. SEEN! Not afterwards, but . . .?! during. SEEN! A kid is 17 and under. The character. NOT the actor Who can be anywhere from the same age as their character to 8 years older than their character. And who averages 2 to 3 years older than their character. For example . . . In "Descendants," the 4 villainous teens are all suppose to be 16-years-old, while the actors portraying them are . . . Dove Cameron is 19 years old this year Cameron Boyce is 16 years old this year Booboo Stewart is 21 years old this year Sofia Carson no age give for her WORKS! (IMHO) does NOT work! (IMHO) Next time: one of the oldest and most effective Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on September 05, 2015, 04:45:20 PM Ere we get to our topic, let me just add, that while the ages of some characters are clearly defined, the ages of the others are my best guess, especially in the upper ranges.
Film is a visual short hand. And one of the oldest, dating back almost a century, and one of the most effective, is to show the horrors of war by killing one or more kids in the film. Here are some examples that . . . WORK! A Bridge Too Far Cross of Iron Dr. Zhivago intolerance Lionheart (1986) Luther The Sand Pebbles War and Peace (1957) War and Peace (1968) Waterloo Zulu Dawn Not that they always work, as here are some examples, where they . . . do NOT Work! Alexander Nevsky Back to Bataan Braveheart Captain Hornblower R.N. Santiago Next time: sex and murder Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on September 14, 2015, 02:35:30 PM Sex and murder.
Sex some. Murder more. But . . .?! a sex murder. That is a rare bird indeed. Indeed, I know of less then a dozen instances of such. Here are some examples. 1st the girls. The Green Berets (implied) does NOT work! Last House on the Left (1972) Unseen Though, what I find interesting is that the girls are defined as being 17, as if, murder of a 17-year-old is worst than murder of an 18-year-old. Of course, and while I cannot prove it, fictionally, I have seen enough cases, where an 18 or over is considered to have reached the age of majority, and is thus an adult, while a 17 and under is considered not to have reached the age of majority, and is thus still a child. Now. legally, there is some proof of this, as the U.S. Supreme Court in a 5 to 4 decision has ruled that a convicted murderer cannot be executed for the murder, if the murder occurred, when the murderer was 17 or less. A convicted murderer can only be executed for a murder, if the murder occurred, when the murderer was 18 or over. As for the boys . . . Keep it simple. Boys (both pre-teen and teen) think with their penises. Not with their brains. Keep it that simple and it . . . WORKS! Lair of the White Worm The Tempter 2020 Texas Gladiators Aaron and Bianchi's Thanos rising Charlaine Harris' An ice gold grave On the other hand . . . Try anything more complex, and it . . . does NOT work! Broadchurch Anne Perry's Bluegate fields Next time: the why? Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on September 22, 2015, 02:32:20 PM The Why or why it WORKS! and/or does NOT work!
Been there. Seen that. Fright Night Original (1985) WORKS! Remake (2011) does NOT work! Village of the Damned Original (1960) WORKS! Remake (1993) does NOT work! Sequel (1964) Children of the Damned does NOT work! Though there is a couple of interesting facets of the remake. (1st) Fewer children. 10 instead of the original 12, and, (2nd) whereas, in the original all the children were killed, one of the children in the remake--a boy--lives and is allowed to walk away with his earth mother. Lord of the Flies Original (1960) WORKS! Remake (1990) does NOT work! That would seem to be the rule and explanation, except . . . there are exceptions. War and Peace Original (1959) Remake (1968) Both WORK! Though, the killings in the remake may work, because they are done in slo-mo. Buffy, the Vampire Slayer Film (1992) TV (1997) Neither WORK! To be continued . . . Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on October 02, 2015, 05:21:37 PM Continuing from previous post . . .
Same Director (Ken Russell) Lair of the White Worm WORKS! Salome's Last Dance does NOT! work Surprise! Open Your Eyes! Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) WORKS! The Usual Suspects does NOT! work Violence Too violent Salem's Lot (2004) does NOT! work Cry of the Banshee WORKS! Could be more violent The Adventures of Huck Finn (1993) WORKS! Similar Subject. Sometimes Yes. Sometimes No. Massacre at Central High WORKS! Heathers does NOT! work Toy Soldiers WORKS! Taps does NOT! work Films I Like True Grit (1968) WORKS! Big Jake does NOT! work Films I Dislike Hang 'Em High WORKS! The Cowboys does NOT! work Unnecessary Killing The Blob (1988) does NOT! work Except for the last, which never works. No one reason seems to WORK! or does NOT! work all of the time. And, of course, (IMHO) Next time: more that WORK! and does NOT! work. But . . . 1st "the great contradiction." Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on October 17, 2015, 04:28:48 PM I was going to post what I called "The Great Contradiction," but . . .?! 1st I thought I post more examples of what I think WORKS! and does NOT WORK! 1st up . . .
the boy in striped pyjamas Bugsy Malone cemetery man dragon slayer the eagle Frankenstein (1931) Frankenstein : the True Story I Am Number 4 mad max beyond thunder dome Quentin Durward Raiders of Atlantis tales from the crypt : demon knight wizards 7 magnificent gladiators Next: what does NOT! Work, then "the great contradiction," but . . .?! 1st an aside A new film version of Shakespeare's "Macbeth" should be released here in the U.S. in the 1st week of December of this year (2015.) And looking at the cast list, it seems to have more children in it, then any previous version I can remember seeing. Not only Banquo's son and Macduff's children, who are normally played by child actors, but . . .?! even some of the witches, villagers, and soldiers are seemingly played by children. We'll have to see whether any of them get killed on screen or not. Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on October 26, 2015, 05:28:38 PM And here we have some more that do NOT! work (IMHO.)
Barry Lyndon Basketball Diaries Beloved Damian : Omen II The Good Son The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly Heavy Metal Henry : Portrait of a Serial Killer Hercules (2014) Hocus Pocus A Judgment in Stone The Lost Continent Once Upon a Time in the West Robert Heinlein's Puppet Masters Satyr icon Simon Birch Star gate Swarm Tarzan and the Leopard Men Young Sherlock Holmes Next time: the best and the worst, but . . . before that . . . "the great contradiction" Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on November 02, 2015, 04:27:14 PM "The Great Contradiction"
Vampires die. Kids live. But . . .?! What if the kid is a vampire? Do they live or die? Here are some examples of both. Kid vampires die. Interview with a Vampire Martin Near Dark Return to Salem's Lot Kid vampires live. Black Sabbath I Was a Teenage Vampire The Little Vampire The Lost Boys (the youngest boy) Stephen King's Kingdom Hospital Ultraviolet Vamp Uncertain Van Helsing We see kid vampires in the house, but . . .?! When the vampires in the house are killed by the "light," we don't see the kid vampires escape the "light." Though, neither do we see them killed. Thus, whether they lived or died is uncertain. Thus, they are more likely to live than die, but . . .?! What of kids as victims of vampires. We'll take that up next time. Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on November 09, 2015, 07:01:59 PM Except for "Martin," where the title character is psychologically predisposed to believe he is a vampire, and "Return to Salem's Lot," where--apparently--the children are born with vampire tendencies, children become vampires, because they were bitten and "turned" by a vampire. Thus, they are victims, and that is because--for the most part--we associate victims with innocence, and, rightly or wrongly, children are thought to be more innocent than adults, thus they often make better victims than adults.
Here are some more films, not previously mentioned, where children are victims of vampires. Abraham Lincoln : Vampire Hunter Captain Kronos Count Dracula Dracula (1971) The Hunger Tenderness of Wolves Vampire Circus Of course, this list is not complete, as I am sure there are other films, which I have not seen, where children are victims of vampire attacks. Next time: the best and the worst Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on November 24, 2015, 11:55:25 AM The worst examples of kid killings in films or on TV.
Good idea. Bad execution Back to Bataan Broad church Captain Horn blower, R.N. Fright Night (2010) The Good Son Salome's Last Dance Bad idea. Worst execution Basketball Diaries The Blob (1988) Brave heart Heavy Metal The Hunger A Judgment in Stone The Puppet Masters Salem's Lot (2004) Satyricon Swarm Tarzan and the Leopard Woman Next time: the best examples Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on December 06, 2015, 03:14:15 PM And now 25 of the best kid killings.
Good idea. Better execution. The Adventures of Huck Finn Assault on Precinct 13 (1976) Bugsy Malone Cemetery Man Cry of the Banshee Doctor Zhivago The Eagle Frankenstein (1931) Fright Night (1986) Hang 'Em High I Am Number 4 Intolerance Lair of the White Worm L'anticristo Lion heart (1987) Raiders of Atlantis Romeo and Juliet (1968) Sand Pebbles Vampire Circus War and Peace (1968) Waterloo Wizards Zulu Dawn 7 Magnificent Gladiators and 2020 Texas Gladiators And here is how they died. Vehicular accident Throat slitting Stabbing Shooting Poisoning Neck breaking Machine gunning Knifing Impaling Hanging Explosion Drowning Bludgeoning Blood draining and Beheading One need not have empathy for the victims, but . . .?! It helps, as I have 33% empathy for them. And one final comment. Of the approximately 86 killed in the 25 films, approximately 78 or 91% were boys, and 8 were girls or 9%. Next time: comments on a couple of comments. Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on December 15, 2015, 04:22:44 PM In 2014 Belgium filmmaker Jonas Govaerts made a film called "Welp" aka "Cub" about a troop of Belgian boy scouts who go on a camping trip in the Ardennes and encounter a sociopathic survivalist and a feral kid who may or may not be a werewolf. Kids are killed. When asked why he killed off most, if not all the scouts, in the film, to paraphrase Mr. Govaerts, he said: "Because I could do it." Wrong answer Mr. Govaerts, as almost any filmmaker could do it. If you want to distinguish yourself from your fellow filmmakers, your answer should have been. . .."Because I could do it better than anyone else." Not that he could do it better than anybody else, because, if you look at the death of another scout, the one in Ken Russell's "Lair of the White Worm," Russell is able to generate empathy for the victim, even though the victim is amazingly stupid in his actions. Whereas, one will find few viewers feeling any empathy for the scouts in Govaerts' film. Most of whom are portrayed as being bullies and thugs. The fact that Mr. Govaerts failed in this regard, is also why, his film, most likely, while playing a couple of U.S. film festivals, failed to gain a release, limited or wide, here in the U.S.
Next time: a statement from someone who saw the film. Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on December 24, 2015, 12:27:12 PM In the same magazine article, where the creator of the film talked about why he killed off the kids in the film, someone, who'd seen the film, was asked, why they'd seen the film, and with the implication he wanted to see kids killed in a film, and this is a paraphrase of what the man said: "Because you don't see kids killed in a film." Putting aside the idea of wanting to see kids killed, even if the deaths are faked, that statement is somewhat ignorant. Though, with somewhat more justification than the statement made by the creator of the film, as most people in an audience know less about films than the people who create them.
And even if the man meant seeing kids killed on-screen as opposed to killing them off-screen, that statement is ignorant, because kids are being killed on-screen, as pointed out here. And even if the man meant horror films, as opposed to other types of films, where the killings may be even more prevalent, that statement is ignorant, because kids are being killed in horror films, as pointed out here. Next time: books and killing kids Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on December 31, 2015, 12:59:59 PM "The hero kills the man. The villain kills the woman. And no one kills the kid."
Of course, that is not totally correct, as we have seen here in films. Nor is it true for TV, here are which some examples. Buffy, the Vampire Slayer Combat Doctor Who Friday: the 13th Hercules: the Legendary Journeys Houston Knights The X-Files Xena: the Warrior Princess Nor is it true for books. Though, it is probably rarer in books than in films or on TV. It is e'en rarer for one of the good guys to kill a kid (kid=17 or younger), but . . .?! E'en that is not unknown in books, and here are some examples of that. Agatha Christie crooked house H. Rider Haggard king Solomon's mines Damian Hunter the centurion Elmer Kelton texas raiders Chris Pierson the taladas trilogy Howard Pyle otto of the silver hand Ross war at the edge of the world Dan Simmons "drood" or "the terror" Frank Yerby goat song On the other hand . . .?! Next time: on the other hand . . .?! Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on January 09, 2016, 01:35:37 PM On the other hand . . .?!
Think "The child of my enemy is my enemy," and (IMHO) you have a scene that does not work, and here are some examples of that. Anonymous Robin Hood and the Monk What a difference a century makes. What was acceptable when the story was written would not be acceptable in Shakespeare's time. Nor would it be acceptable in our time, as the story told today has to be rewritten. Sarah Douglas The Daughter of Hades C. S. Forester Hornblower and the Crisis Zane Grey The Last Wagon Train Victor Hugo The Hunchback of Notre Dame Per Lagerkervist The Dwarf Jean Rabe The Rebellion Kenneth Roberts The Northwest Passage Whitley Streiber The Hunger And the effect on me is even greater. If a scene does not work in a film, several of which we have already mentioned, I'll continue to watch the film, and I even might enjoy the film. On the other hand . . . ?! If a scene does not work in a book, then I stop reading the book. And when the number of kids killed can be determined in all the books mentioned, only 4 or 5 are girls or 18% to 23% are girls, and all the rest are boys or 77% to 82%. Next time: we'll wrap it all up with some final comments Title: Re: Shakespeare's Solution : Kill the Kid Post by: BoyScoutKevin on January 23, 2016, 01:11:51 PM Final comments
As to the why it interests me, not because like some, I like seeing kids killed, but . . .?! Because it really is one of the hardest scenes to do and/or write rightly, as one can so easily do what one does not want to do, and that is alienate one's audience and/or readers, which one really, really does not want to do, if one want to be successful. Thus, it takes a great filmmaker and/or writer, almost a Shakespeare to do the scene well enough, so that it does not alienate one's audience and/or readers. And that is that. |