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Yeah, i'm sorry, i've been looking this thread for weeks now and how baffled i was to finally find it in the Good Movies section. I've watched the movie a while ago and i want to let it all out before the rage subsides and the memories fade (well, i hope they do because i don't want them in my head any longer). If the mods think this thread shouldn't exist, at least merge it with the other one, but it will bring a lot of peace to my mind if you just let it exist in the place i believe it belongs. :twirl:

First of all, i'll tell you something about me: i never, EVER learn anything about movies, games, or whatever is coming out in the future. I hate every single kind of spoiler, i like to be surprised, so as you can imagine i went to the movie teather expecting... well, nothing at all. I knew this was a cheap move to milk the franchise a little more, but coming from Disney i gave it a chance because they do make good movies. I mean, with that silly childish style, but they're entertaining and somewhat memorable. Oh boy, how naive i was. :bluesad:
First of all, i'm not gonna talk much about the plot because it's an obvious ripoff of Episode IV. I mean, it's not even similar... its the exact same freaking movie. Did we really waited a gazillion years for a crappy remake? That's terrible, and honestly i consider it a scam.
Bear with me please: an orfan in a town in the middle of the desert founds a lost droid which has important information for the rebels agains the empire, so he sets in motion to deliver it to its owners. Along the way he finds out that inside him there's a special power lying dormant, so an evil guy with the same kind of powers but, you know, evil, gets interested and tries to capture him. Meanwhile, the rebels learn about a super weapon capable of destroying planets, so they come up with a plan to infiltrate the base, save the orphan, and deactivate the shields so a bunch of spaceships can attack a weak point of the massive weapon and make it explode.
Now, change the gender of the orphan to female and presto, you have Episode VII. Original content, do not steal. :drink:

Now, onto the worst part of this awfulness, the characters. Let me start by saying that i never really liked the original characters of Star Wars, except of course Vader, Yoda and Obi Wan. As you can see, i always loved the Force stuff of the saga, so the rebels against the empire plotline seemed a bit lackluster to me, specially when these days there's a lot of that material to chose from. You may say then that Episode VII was bread and butter to me, but no, because everything that has been implied before is now forgotten as it never happened, and it shows specially in the main character, Rey.
First of all, she has the Force inside her like puberty. I don't recall anyone in the saga just magically making the Force work, and i find ironic how at one point Han Solo says that "the Force doesn't work that way!" to that useless Finn character. It's like they know they're not making any sense and they laugh in our faces.
Like, the girl first beats a Sith in a mind battle (?)... you know, Sith, those badass fellas that we've seen take down veteran Jedis all by themselves. Then, she can use the power of persuasion on a guard without even using her hands. If i recall correctly, every single character before had to use their hands to perform that feat, yet here comes this girl which never had any kind of training and make it happen just with the power of her will. And to add insult to this injury, she beats the same Sith from before in a swordfight, and even uses telekinesis with no trouble at all. So, to sum this all up, all the training Luke had with Yoda and all the years Anakin spent with Obi Wan were totally useless, because now you can just get your powers for free! :cheers:

Now, speaking of Sith, let's talk about the garbage character, Kylo Ren or whatever he's called. In an obvious attempt of leeching Vader's popularity, the main antagonist wears a mask with a robotic voice for no reason at all. Hell, they even say it like two times in the movie! Again, the creators of this mess are laughing at us.
When the film starts, this fella shows up and after he stopped a lightning shot without even watching it i thought "Hey, he's pretty powerful". Yet, as the movie unfolds, he gets his ass kicked by some random chick who never picked up a sword before, and almost gets pwned by that Finn fella who, as you remember, can barely do anything except use his gun. Even worst, he keeps failing in the course of his duties and every time something bad happens he makes the infamous RANDOM GRATUITOUS ACT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST EVERYTHING IN SIGHT, like a 15 year old kid with daddy issues. Even his soldiers run away when he performs that show, because they clearly know he's an emo teenager.
Needless to say, he's an embarrassment to the Sith and i wish i never had to see him without his mask because his face is the one of a basement dweller. I'm not even kidding with this one, even a friend who actually kinda liked the movie said it. Anakin had such an evil, sad look on his face, it was so well done, and now comes this disaster...
As Hercules would say: WAIT A MINUTE, THIS ISN'T A SITH... DISAPPOINTED!
Oh, another thing that i've found strange: seems like the guys who designed the new lightsaber didn't knew what's the purpose of the quillon (i think that's the name in english). The idea is to protect your own hand, so if it's made of a powerful laser capable of melting flesh you should call the guy who forged it and slap his face for being such an a***ole. I like how Ren shoves the quillon on Finn's shoulder just to justify that stupid idea, tho. :tongueout:

About the other characters: i couldn't care less about them, they're so bland and idiotic. Finn is the most useless fella in the world, and it seems he's performing the "comical guy" role because he's always making stupid jokes that aren't funny... at all. By the way, when did they started to use another model for the clones? Shouldn't be Jango's face in there? And why a clone can decide by himself when they were geneticaly modified? I don't know, maybe there's some other random cartoon or something like that explaining it in detail, but it's certainly not in this movie. :lookingup:
The robot thing is an obvious ripoff of R2D2, they don't even try to hide it. The cameos of the other characters are totally uncalled for, with the exception of Han Solo who is barely the only reedeming part of the movie. I like how after decades of partnership he never used Chewie's crossbow tho, makes a lot of sense. :question:

I could keep going but i guess i made my point already, and don't worry, i'm ready for the incoming insults. Bring it on, but please don't try to explain to me the plotholes because there's nothing you can say that manages to save this disaster to my eyes. I didn't even enjoyed the movie as a stand alone production... there's nothing good about it, sorry. :bluesad:

I honestly can't believe how people is excited about this remake, but i guess everyone has different tastes. Of course, if you did liked it i respect your opinion and it's the reason i didn't wanted to post this wall of text in the Good Movies section, it's just that i'm starting to believe that the producers knew that nostalgia would set in hard in the minds of the people, and they just put zero effort in doing a quality product. It seems that the only one who actually did his job right was the master Jhon Williams, providing us with delightful music once again. :thumbup:

Good night everyone, may the Force be with you all.

PD: OMG NO DUEL OF THE FATES SCENE?! F#CK THIS CRAP, F#CK IT TO HELL! :hatred:

Brother! Come to my arms!  These were all the issues I had with The Force Awakens, but I was very much trying to soften it because I enjoyed other aspects of the movie.  To address and confirm some of your points:

1.  Yes, what the heck is up with Rey and her super-awesome-instinctive Jedi powers.  Totally untrained, but suddenly able to do things that took even the most gifted, like Anakin, years of training to accomplish.  Suck the lightsaber out of Kylo Ren's grasp, untrained?  Mind control the stormtrooper, untrained?  Wield a lightsaber and win against a freaking trained Sith?  You're right, the Force skills were on her like puberty.  I found this incredibly inconsistent with the rest of the preceding films, and frankly farcical.

2.  Fin is written as the dumb male unit character.  He epitomizes the sad sack Nice Guy(tm) pines after a woman, and ends up getting friendzoned.  He goes to the Death Planet because ... girl!  And the rebel leaders send him to the Death Planet to blow it up, but never ask him exactly HOW it is going to be done?  What lunacy is that??

2a. Fin is not a new clone.  It seems that the new Empire stopped using clones, and took young children and trained and conditioned them instead.  That explains why he doesn't look like the Fetts.  There is a line about how they are no longer using clones.

3.  Kylo Ren, what the heck.  Dude in a black mask, long cape, and deep voice.  Come on, can the team be more original?  And despite displaying complete badassery by stopping blaster fire in midair, which no one has been able to do apart from Darth Vader deflecting bolts with his hands, he gets his bum handed to him by a disaffected stormtrooper, and an untrained 18 year old girl.  Yeah, sure.  Oh, but wait, she has magical Force puberty powers.

4.  To be honest, I thought the new droid was utterly adorable, but I'm a sucker for cute stuff.  i've read that the design of BB-8 was one of the original concepts for R2D2, but they lacked the technology to create it realistically back in 1977.

Having said all of this, I much preferred The Force Awakens to the Phantom Menace.  Much.

Although I am not a big Kylo Ren fan (I thought he looked impressive until he took his mask off), I would have to say in his defence when he fought Finn & Ren he had just had a hole blown in him by Chewbacca using a weapon that was shown of being a pretty powerful gun. I'd imagine he was using a lot of his force powers just to hold his guts in and stay upright. I do agree that the level of mastery of the force being shown is unprecidented, but then Kylo Ren apparently isn't a Sith in the same way as the Emperor or Vader (a Sith Inquisitor rather than a Sith Lord, no idea what difference that actually makes though) and maybe what ever group he is from uses the force differently? It will be interesting (for me anyway) to see where they go next to justify the levels of power we are seeing and I am quite looking forward to the next one.

Apart from the fact that Rey seems so naturally adept with the Force that she should easily overshadow Anakin Skywalker, I disagree with most of what you said. Indeed, I wonder if you saw the same movie.

Kylo Ren is not a Sith. Apparently he and this Snoke character are creating some new Dark Side order.

Kylo Ren beat Finn pretty handily, especially for a guy with a large whole blasted in his abdomen.

Kylo Ren is trying to emulate Darth Vader, hence his outfit. Did that go right by you? Kylo is a Darth Vader wanna-be: it's a defining character trait.

Rey may not have wielded a lightsaber before, but she is obviously no stranger to close combat. Even so, she spends most of her fight with Kylo running away.

But feel free to hate it. You certainly aren't the only one.

Oh, and yes, the plot is highly derivative. I can't argue with that.

My biggest problem with this movie is Fin.  Instead of a kid on his first mission, he should have been an older man, a veteran, who finally had enough.  I kind of feel like the people behind the movie made him a kid who never go this hands dirty just so they wouldn't have to expend actual effort to get us to like him.  Seems lazy.

Ted, thanks for the breakdown, especially the part about Ren not being a Sith, and being a Darth Vader wannabe.  I missed that in my viewing.

Fin never got his hands dirty?!? He was a janitor! I doubt his hands were ever clean!  :twirl:

If he had been a fed-up veteran, then the romance angle they shoehorned in would be creepy.

My biggest problem with the film is Captain Phasma, who was built up to be some kind of badass in the promotions, but just rolled over when it came time for her to actually do something impressive.

Rey went over Ren kinda like they do in Wrestling (in an attempt) to give all sides credibility; the newb hero only went over the badass because the badass was previously injured (Chewy) and just had another "match" with Finn -at least that's why I think they tried to sell it to us the way they did (i.e. he only lost because he was injured and fatigued). Her and Ren should have had a physical encounter midway through the film where he wipes the floor with her (but leaves her alive). One thing I would also like to mention is that Rey did have the "motivation" on her side -she was definitely tapping into some emotions (some could even argue bordered on touching some dark side/aggression) when she went Force nuts on him at the end.

As for the sudden awakening of the force, it remind me of the game, Mage: The Ascension, where you have a knowledge rating (of say, the force or powers similar to) but you also have an Avatar rating, which is basically your soul power (or max/start capacity, if that makes sense). Basically, when a novice is awakened, their ability is already pretty sky-high. Back to the movie, though, I have bad feeling (pun intended) they are going to make her related to someone special, which I think is BS if they go that route (this galaxy is already pretty damned small).

Total agreement about Phasma -what a let down. I wonder if they will expand on that later.

Speaking of Kylo Ren, at first I didn't like him. But then I thought about it and...well, we're not "supposed" to like the villain, which was kinda the problem with Vader. I think that most people wanted a villain who rocked again, but this one actually brings legit heat from audiences since he's a total fan-boy wanna-be poser copy-cat. It's almost refreshing to have a villain to hate on again.

I mean, seriously, did General Grevious evoke any emotion from anyone in the audience either way? He was just meh. Dooku was cool, if a bit undeveloped/rushed. Maul was a non-starter. I couldn't really hate any of those villains (and the Emperor was awesome, too).

Kylo Ren just has the face and attitude that makes me want to punch his face. That makes for a good villain (of at least a certain type, anyway).

You know, i've never really understood the hate towards Phantom Menace, which is actually one of my favorites. Both Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor are pure win, and Jake Lloyd makes for an awesome young Anakin. I mean, i actually felt sorry for the kid, and gave me a better understanding of his downfall. In my opinion, if you can connect with a character in that way, it means that its development was properly done, and it shows a well written story behind it. This counts too for Palpatine but in the opposite way, as you watch him lurk his way into the politics without even using the Dark Side of the Force, just the good ol' tactics from our very same planet. :lookingup:
On the other hand, coming from the awful swordfights from the original movies (i mean, at the time they were cool i guess, but if you see them now they are slow and robotic, and honestly you don't need special effects to make a good fight) the new Jedi pressence was a breath of fresh air. I consider the duel against Darth Maul as one of the best scenes of the entire saga with that fitting music and background, and the Sith himself who said a single line in the entire movie remains to this day as a charismatic, simple and effective secondary villain.
The battles were fun and well done, and the race scene is a lot of fun. Honestly, i don't know why the opinions towars Episode I are so negative. If you're gonna say "because Jar Jar Binks" may i ask then why nobody complained about the idiotic C3PO in the original movies? Because he's so much silly than Jar Jar... and what about the Ewoks? They look like they came from a kids show, i always hated them. :tongueout:


Yeah, i forgot about that one, but i think i do have an explanation: revealing her face would've meant to create a background story for her, and that would require to actually think about something new. As you can see with the rest of the movie, everything's recycled so she would probably been end up as a washed up Bobba Fett or something like that. :twirl:


You know, most of the stories that i remember have interesting villains on them. Hell, they're most interesting that the good guys usually. I think it's mostly because we want to understand them and know their motivations and reasons, therefore end up caring most for them than the actual heroes of the story - we usually want them to be redeemed also. I mean, we already know how the good guys think and what they want, and sometimes we even feel identified by them, but the villains are almost every time more interesting. When you hate a bad guy is because what he is doing and his motivations behind his actions, not because he looks like an idiot. That's why Kylo Ren is terrible and bland.
BTW, Grievous was awesome and i always wanted to know more about him (specially about his training and how he got all those lightsabers), too bad there wasn't really room for him on the movie. The same goes with Dooku, specially because it was portrayed by Christopher Lee. :thumbup:

I couldn't care less about Kylo Ren, i swear he looked like a stupid kid who likes to troll people on the Internet or something. I too wanted to punch his face but just to get him out of the screen because he sucked so bad. He had no charisma, no real motivations than HER DERP DARK SIDE GIVE ME POWAH, and he was just way too inconsistent.
Because, OK, i read the comments about him wanted to be Vader and i understand that, believe me - to me, it means it's just a lazily written plot and didn't even bothered to give him a real reason to be on the Dark Side. But why in one scene he can just put Rey to sleep with a snap of his fingers and a couple of hours later he can't even hit her with telekinesis? It seems that the rules of the movie changes from a moment to another. :tongueout:
And by the way... he can use telekinesis, weilds a lightsaber and perform mind tricks, drawing all these powers from the Dark Force, but he isn't a Sith... deus ex machina all around fellas! :teddyr:

Thanks everyone for the replies tho, i think discussing Star Wars is worse than combining politics, religion and sports, all in the same conversation. :teddyr:

If they must go that route, I hope they do the "Palpatine has spare bodies" thing and have Rey be a creation of his that he planted to oppose Snoke and Kylo's heretical Knights of Ren.

She should have been the one who fights Finn with that energy melee weapon instead of a random guy with a backstory from a novel.

That would have given her some credibility!

I won't deny that the action scenes, Darth Maul, and the performances of Ewan MacGregor and Liam Neeson were great.  All of these things brought new life and aspects to the Star Wars universe.  The movie itself just didn't quite work for me. 

I probably enjoyed The Force Awakens more than The Phantom Menace because Force had a much stronger 'classic Star Wars' feeling to it than Phantom.  While Phantom had loads of CGI, Force used a lot of physical models.  There were a lot of nods in Force to the same colour palette of the original Star Wars movies, which is fairly subtle but unconsciously noticeable.  It 'feels' like the original movies because the designers put a lot of effort into recapturing that sense, whereas Phantom seemed more like a fantasy movie due to its colour palette and overall look.

Young Anakin didn't work for me, either.  I just wasn't engaged by the character/performance.  It got better with Hayden Christensen, but I was still a bit iffy about it.

It seems like I'm directly comparing Phantom with the original movies, and I think I'm justified in doing so.  The first trilogy created a universe with a particular look.  Following/prequeling movies should retain something of that look to maintain a kind of continuity, and I don't think they did it right.

All this talk is making me want to watch through the whole six movies again.

I think that the prequels really just had weaker writing and direction than the original trilogy. There's only so much that even great actors can do with a bad script, and poor direction can get poor performances from them, as well.

Phantom is shot in flat and dull ways, the performance are mostly terrible, the plot is way too complicated and dull, the side characters are annoying, the dialogue is awful, there is no focus, the plot doesn't make a lot of sense, it has no heart. Just... Ugh.  The action sequences are decent, about all I can say, but even they're mostly lacking in tension as they are always undercut by the storytelling or performances.

Good score though.

The first and last thirds are great.  The entire middle of the movie, however, blah.  Also, Annakin was terrible.  I didn't mind Jar-Jar or the Gungans.

I'll start by saying-I enjoyed the movie.   I really did.  But it was one of those movies where the flaws are also really obvious. And by now, most of what I would say about the movie has been said by someone else.

But the one thing I noticed that nobody else seemed to was that some of the characters, (particularly Finn)  talked a little too modern and didn't seem to fit in the Star Wars universe.  Like how Finn questioned how Han could understand Chewbacca.   Or when Han tried to get Finn to turn around to see Rey, Finn went into a "What are you doing with your head.  You tryn' to tell me something"  Can't remember the exact dialog.  The dialogue wasn't bad but for some reason it felt out of place to me.

It's like if at the end of LOTR, after the earthquake destroys the army  of Mordor,  Legolas turned to Gimli and said"  Well....that just happened"

Anyone else disappointed by the fact Senator Snoke only appeared that big because  he was a hologram, and this movie missed an awesome opportunity to hve a giant sized force user.

And I'm calling it right now.  This will be the movie trilogy that officially brings the Star Wars characters to Earth.  All that talk about the planet Luke is on being in an unexplored region of space.  I really think Luke is on ancient Earth at the end.  I've heard the planet's named something else in the script or the novelization-but I'm not buying it.   
 

Are you joking? Or did "A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" go right over your head?

Those are where the movies start-not necessarily where they end. They have ships that are capable for long space travel.  And Earth did appear in the Star Wars EU.  One novel, even shows that the humans in Star Wars are descended from the humans of Earth THX1138, who escaped back in time to avoid their totalitarian society.  So its not without precedent.     

Phantom Menace: Theocrat kidnaps kid into authoritarian regime; doesn't end slavery ...and something about trade route taxation issues and characters bumbling their way into success (ad nausea), lol.

Still, it was better than Attack of the Clones (except any scene with Christopher Lee or Ian Mcdiarmid).

I guess it's not 100% clear, but the star maps showing the route to the planet certainly looked like the same galaxy to me.

The Christopher Lee character in Attack of the Clones really should have been fleshed out way more: a disillusioned Jedi who thinks the Republic has lost its way and is trying to fix things by working outside of the system would have been a really cool way to go [its kind of hinted at but then he's working with the person ruining the republic so it goes a bit sideways from there] Still his character would have been a great lead in for how Anakin turned but sadly isn't how they fleshed it out.

Agreed, Dean. I always wanted him more fleshed out, too. It would have been better if they had at least mentioned his name and/or mentioned him leaving the Jedi Order in TPM.

Yeah, i too wanted to watch and know more about Count Dooku, mostly because Christopher Lee was just superb. Hell, my favorite music band is Rhapsody of Fire... and he was in there too. I miss his awesomeness. :(

About the theory that in the following movies they are going to reach the Earth: that would be just another lazily written plot and wouldn't surprise me in the least. Why create new things when we can just use the ones that already exist? Ez money guys.

With all due respect . . .

The strength of SW7 : TFA lies not with the new and original, but . . .?! with the old and unoriginal.
With stories as old as SW4: ANH.
With stories as old as time itself.
For example . . .

The story of the "good" son and the "bad" son and the "father" who loves them both.
And here, at this point, the "good" son being Ren, as he seems to be conflicted by what he does.
And the "bad" son being Hux, as he seems to be not conflicted by what he does.
And the "father" who loves them both is Snoke.

The strength of SW7 : TFA--and beyond--lies in its casting

We know that Bernicio del Toro is already on board for SW8. Now it seems that Laura Dern is also on board for SW8. And while we yet know little about her character, the agreement is, and I agree, is that she'll knock the part out of the park, as she is the right actress for it.

The strength of SW7 : TFA--and beyond--lies in its merchandising.

Box office is nothing. It is only a means to get the audience to buy the merchandise associated with the film, because . . .?! Merchandise is where the money is. And here are some examples of that.

Unlike Toys 'R' Us, which had done away with sorting toys by gender, Hasbro still sorts toys by gender. And while sales for Hasbro toys was up in 2015 over 2014,, the biggest increase was in "boys' toys," or where you'll find your Star Wars toys, which was up 35% last year or 2015 over the previous year or 2014.

The largest toy fair in the world was recently held in New York (New York.) And as thought, Star Wars toys dominated the show, winning several Toy of the Year awards, including Property of the Year or "the property that has had the greatest success in spreading its brand thru out the world." "No s@#$, Sherlock." And I about fell on the floor laughing, when I read that, because as they say in Hollywood: "You ain't heard nothing yet [from Star Wars.]!"

For . . .?! Do you have your pints of Star Wars ice cream yet? It comes in 2 flavors: Dark Side, which is a chocolate confection, and Light Side, which is a marshmallow blend with bits of Dark Side blended in to it. Available from a boutique creamery in Brooklyn (New York) the Ample Hills Creamery. And if the rumor is correct, soon to be available at Walt Disney World.

But . . .?! We'll see what we'll see.