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Other Topics => Off Topic Discussion => Topic started by: Alex on July 15, 2018, 08:57:21 AM



Title: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Alex on July 15, 2018, 08:57:21 AM
Ok, so we've had topics most and least favourite president. But who do you think would have made a great president, but just didn't make it?

For my part I'd have to say I'd have really liked to have seen John McCain make it. He is from the opposite side of the political spectrum from me, but he clearly loves his country and he was respectful towards his opponent. I remember one of his suporters abusing Obama and he told them they were wrong and that Obama also loved his country, just him and Obama had different views on how best to serve their country. I thought it was a shame they couldn't have been president and vice president together.

Anyway, over to you.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 15, 2018, 09:43:00 AM
I think that Mitt Romney would have made an excellent President.
And, going WAY back, it's a darn shame that Henry Clay never made it to the White House.
In my history classes, I call him "the best President we never had."


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: LilCerberus on July 15, 2018, 11:42:32 AM
It's hard to say.
As far as the press was concerned, the 2016 primaries were more about shenanigans than ideas. Since the election, it's gotten a lot worse.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Allhallowsday on July 15, 2018, 12:47:30 PM
Ok, so we've had topics most and least favourite president. But who do you think would have made a great president, but just didn't make it?

For my part I'd have to say I'd have really liked to have seen John McCain make it. He is from the opposite side of the political spectrum from me, but he clearly loves his country and he was respectful towards his opponent. I remember one of his suporters abusing Obama and he told them they were wrong and that Obama also loved his country, just him and Obama had different views on how best to serve their country. I thought it was a shame they couldn't have been president and vice president together...
I like JOHN McCAIN, too.  I like your idea.   :thumbup:

I think that Mitt Romney would have made an excellent President.
...
:thumbdown: Only in comparison.   


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: justme2013 on July 15, 2018, 03:46:41 PM
If I recall my history lessons correctly the runner up in the elections used to become the Vice President.

For me I think that either John McCain or Jon Huntsman Jr. would have been great, but Huntsman was pushed out by the Republicans who wanted Romney, and they didn't want to divide the Mormon vote between the two. Huntsman was a bit to left leaning for the Republicans though.

But hey both Obama and Trump have tapped him to be ambassador


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Rev. Powell on July 15, 2018, 03:48:48 PM
McCain, Bob Dole. I think Romney might not have been too bad, but I am confused by his vascillating between condemning Turmp and tacitly supporting him.

McCain shot himself in the foot by naming Sarah Palin VP in a foolish attempt to appeal to the tea party types.

Maybe Benjamin Frankilin? He was too old to run for President but he probably would have made a good one. Also Henry Clay or William Jennings Bryant. What about MLK, if he had lived and gone into politics?


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 15, 2018, 04:13:45 PM
I would say Hillary Clinton, but she wasn't an also ran, she got 3 million more votes than that thing in the white house but thiasks to gerrymandering and the electoral college the also ran got into the white house.

Same with Al Gore. In both gore and Hillary's case disasters ensued.








Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 15, 2018, 04:18:16 PM
I Think Bernie Saunders would have been fine.
Bobby Kennedy too, but.... :bluesad:


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 15, 2018, 04:31:59 PM
I Think Bernie Saunders would have been fine.
Bobby Kennedy too, but.... :bluesad:

yeah, I agree. :bluesad:



Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 15, 2018, 07:08:50 PM
This guy!
Gabriel Green!
He ran in 1960 and in 72!

(https://i.imgur.com/EBAzBrN.jpg) (https://lunapic.com)


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 15, 2018, 09:14:09 PM

And, going WAY back, it's a darn shame that Henry Clay never made it to the White House.
In my history classes, I call him "the best President we never had."


He was against the Mexican/ Texas War that liberated  Texas from Mexico ya know.
Of course I'm not wild about Daniel Webster, either.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 15, 2018, 09:56:56 PM
To show you how much I've changed year to year, I usta like Lyndon LaRouche back in about 1980. Now that's flat out crazy.  :buggedout:


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: dean on July 16, 2018, 02:15:05 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjcWcPPB8tO9NaqWY82Ga2UAioVMooLNmFZTdi0YlpwYbpTMbKdg)


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Trevor on July 16, 2018, 03:59:37 AM
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSjcWcPPB8tO9NaqWY82Ga2UAioVMooLNmFZTdi0YlpwYbpTMbKdg)

 :teddyr: :teddyr:


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: ER on July 16, 2018, 10:11:55 AM
Must it be someone in politics? If not I grew up with a friend who loved horses and horse racing and through her I came to have a soft spot for Alydar, who ran second in every Triple Crown race in 1978, coming within a neck in the Preakness and a nose at the Belmont. In any other year he'd have gone down as among the greatest of the great.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 16, 2018, 01:51:09 PM
To those who gripe about the Electoral College, I will say this:
Every President in American history was chosen by the Electoral College - many without a majority of the popular vote.
Abraham Lincoln?  40% of the popular vote.  Bill Clinton? 42%.  Woodrow Wilson?  Just over 40%.
Sometimes it reflects the popular vote, sometimes it doesn't.  But the system wasn't changed to put Bush43 or Donald Trump in office.
You take the good with the bad.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: ER on July 16, 2018, 02:57:45 PM
Funny I don't recall Democrats complaining when President Clinton failed to get a majority vote in 1992. I was so glad he won I couldn't believe it. It felt like Christmas that night.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Pacman000 on July 16, 2018, 03:10:49 PM
Is it true that, early on, people voted for electors by name, not the candidate/party?


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 16, 2018, 04:03:14 PM
Funny I don't recall Democrats complaining when President Clinton failed to get a majority vote in 1992. I was so glad he won I couldn't believe it. It felt like Christmas that night.

Normally i don't waste time responding to trolls like you, but i have to clarify that clinton [b]got more popular votes that bush in 1992[/b].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

Hillary got more popular votes that that thing putin was running, in fact she got more popular votes than anyone in american history other than president obama. The electroal college and gerrymandering gave it to puttin's thing.

I won't reply to whatever troll you throw at this, i was speaking to other people here who may not know you were spreading lies about american elections.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 16, 2018, 04:49:26 PM
Well, in terms of raw numbers, there were more voters in 2016 than there had ever been at any point in American history, and it was a high turnout election, so of course the winner of the popular vote got more votes than anyone ever before.

Clinton did in fact get more popular votes than Bush Sr., however, it was NOT a majority because it was a three man election.
He got 42%, Bush Sr. got 37%, and Ross Perot got 18%, with the remainder going to fringe candidates.

What ER said, and what you said, were both accurate statements.
No need for drama.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 16, 2018, 06:02:30 PM
Whatever happened to Ross Perot?  :question:


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Pacman000 on July 16, 2018, 06:06:29 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Perot

Still around. Still richer than most men. His party lasted a few years after his failed election, but I think it eventually fell apart.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: HappyGilmore on July 16, 2018, 07:59:29 PM
Maybe not necessarily 'also rans', but in 2008/12 I liked Ron Paul and Rand Paul. 

Ron was a little out there, sometimes, in his ideas, but I'm a Libertarian, so I was okay with a bunch of it.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: ER on July 17, 2018, 10:06:53 AM
Funny I don't recall Democrats complaining when President Clinton failed to get a majority vote in 1992. I was so glad he won I couldn't believe it. It felt like Christmas that night.

Normally i don't waste time responding to trolls like you, but i have to clarify that clinton [b]got more popular votes that bush in 1992[/b].

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1992

Hillary got more popular votes that that thing putin was running, in fact she got more popular votes than anyone in american history other than president obama. The electroal college and gerrymandering gave it to puttin's thing.

I won't reply to whatever troll you throw at this, i was speaking to other people here who may not know you were spreading lies about american elections.

It's like I explained to my six-year-old the other day, Sven, reading comprehension is important in life. I didn't say President Clinton did not receive the most votes, only that he did not get a majority. So once again I'm, uh, right, and you're...wrong. Some things never change, do they?

I been coming here for ten years, if I was a troll I don't think I'd have gotten good karma from almost everyone here at once point or another. If I was a troll I wouldn't have paid for a member here who'd fallen into homelessness to get off the street and into an apartment. Actually my negativity coincided with your arrival here, always having to correct you, and you getting mad at being disproven instead of humbly learning something new and adjusting your misfounded beliefs accordingly. But there was more to my regrettable bad attitude here than that. It was complicated but not without reason. I'm back to white now, wishing you and everyone here good things, prosperity, happiness, laughs, what the Irish call peace of spirit. And to prove my heart is in the right place, I'm going to give you, Sven, positive karma on a daily basis, just to set us back on a better path.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 17, 2018, 11:38:24 AM
To those who gripe about the Electoral College, I will say this:
Every President in American history was chosen by the Electoral College - many without a majority of the popular vote.
Abraham Lincoln?  40% of the popular vote.  Bill Clinton? 42%.  Woodrow Wilson?  Just over 40%.
Sometimes it reflects the popular vote, sometimes it doesn't.  But the system wasn't changed to put Bush43 or Donald Trump in office.
You take the good with the bad.

Sigh..  In may cases there we're more than. 2 candidates running and the winner got the. Largest share of the vote. 


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 17, 2018, 11:41:55 AM
(https://bluevoterredstate.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/electoral-college-math-the-population-of-california-is-38-800-000-the-67608831.png?w=720)


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 17, 2018, 01:09:46 PM
That is true because the size of the House of Representatives was frozen a hundred years ago to keep it from outgrowing the capitol building.
Each state is guaranteed at least three electoral votes; one for each Senator and representative they have.
Your mistake is in thinking that America is a democracy; we are not, we are a Republic.   A Republic runs by the rules in its Constitution and can change that Constitution at any time by the formal Amendment process.  The Electoral College was set up in our Constitution 220 years ago; numerous proposals have been made to amend it, and all have been rejected because they did not clear the threshold for an amendment - a 2/3 majority of states to propose, and 3/4 to ratify. 
I am an advocate for enlarging the House of Representatives to more accurately reflect and represent our growing population, but until that happens, yes, the individual votes made in smaller states will count for a bit more than those in the largest states. BUT the large states will still have an enormous advantage in the number of Electoral votes they have.  This is entirely legal and constitutional, even if it is not purely democratic.

But, as I said, America is NOT a democracy and never has been, and that's not a bad thing.
Democracy in its pure form is nothing but mob rule.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: Svengoolie 3 on July 17, 2018, 02:28:37 PM
Tell you what,  first time a conservative loses the white house due to the electoral college i'll listen to your views on it.

As is it is working to keep democrats out of the white house and let republicans in.









































































Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 17, 2018, 03:04:06 PM
Considering the entire system was created long before the two current political parties came into existence - and considering that the Democratic Party WAS the party of conservative Southerners for over a hundred years - I find that whole point irrelevant.  The system could not have been created to favor a party or ideology that did not yet exist.

FWIW, Grover Cleveland lost the electoral college in 1888 to Benjamin Harrison.
Of the two, Cleveland was a strong fiscal conservative and an advocate of white rule in the South.
Many Jim Crow laws were passed and went unchallenged during his two non-consecutive terms of office.
So you could certainly argue that he was a conservative who lost the EC after winning the popular vote.

Maybe the Democrats just need stronger candidates, who can appeal to rural voters as well as to residents of large cities and overpopulated states.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: ER on July 17, 2018, 03:55:23 PM
Way to fight ignorance even off the clock, Indy!  :cheers:


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 17, 2018, 04:04:34 PM
I always think of Truman and Dewey as classic contenders.

(https://i.imgur.com/FaEfDxn.jpg) (https://lunapic.com)


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: ER on July 17, 2018, 04:44:09 PM
One of the greatest pictures of all time, Dewey Defeats Truman.

Ever read or see Billy Bathgate and get to the part where Dutch Schultz was obsessed with killing Dewey and fatally defied Murder Inc. which ordered him not to?


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 17, 2018, 04:44:22 PM
Yeah, but the right man won that time around!
I am a huge fan of Harry Truman.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: RCMerchant on July 17, 2018, 05:06:49 PM
I'm glad Truman won. He ended the war. (of course he got use involved in Vietnam-but that's a whole other can of worms....!)
I really like Truman too. He did what he thought was best for the American people. He was a patriot in the true sense of the word.


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: lester1/2jr on July 17, 2018, 06:08:32 PM
I was a big Ron Paul supporter in 2008 and 2012


Title: Re: Who is your favourite also ran?
Post by: indianasmith on July 17, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
I'm glad Truman won. He ended the war. (of course he got use involved in Vietnam-but that's a whole other can of worms....!)
I really like Truman too. He did what he thought was best for the American people. He was a patriot in the true sense of the word.

I actually thought it was Ike that sent the first advisors to Vietnam.
Of course, Truman did make the decision to let the French go back in there after WW2 - which triggered the French Indochinese war, which created North Vietnam and South Vietnam as puppet states of the Soviets and the West - but in all honesty, the man had a LOT on his plate in 1946!