Badmovies.org Forum

I had a discussion with a friend today and we agreed that in current culture, CIVILITY suffers. 

agreed...........
I've been getting a lot more use out of this than I thought I would;
“How absurd,” said the gnat to the gnu,
“To spell your queer name as you do!”
“For the matter of that,”
Said the gnu to the gnat,
“That’s just as I feel about you.” - Oliver Herford

I generally try to be civil in my discourse.  I also dearly love debate and discussion of history, politics, and current events.
Too many people, the minute you disagree with them, immediately resort to personal insults.
That makes it hard to maintain civil discourse.

The thing is, as a traditional Republican who despises all things Trump, I tend to catch it from both directions!

I realize this, my friend, but I, for one, admire you.   :thumbup:

You won't get no argument from me.
Our goverment right now is filled with cheats, liars, rich a***oles who want to get richer, and a President who has payed women to shut up because he f**ks around on his wife.
I never liked Howard Stern.
I never read garbage like the NATIONAL ENQUIRER.

If I'm at the store, or bank, or wherever, I always say, "Yes, Ma'am"  or "No Ma'am" to a lady.
(not to my mother of my children- who want's drug money- I just laff and say- "are you crazy?"- I broke up with her over 20 years ago-Thank you Satan!)
I always open the door for a lady. Even with cars.
I take my hat off in a diner or theater.

You da man.  :thumbup:

Indy- your between a rock and a hard place. I admire you very much.

Thanks to you both!

I never put my feet on the table.

I believe in complete mogonomy when it comes to relationships. I NEVER cheated on Tara Sue, Tiana, or even Gail or Kerrie.

I watch TV for movies- not to tell me who to vote for President. I have a brain.I This is not a game show.
We have a Jersey Shore President. It makes me sick that so many people are brainwashed by this moron who is our President- because they watch too much TV. Sometimes the masses are morons.
This is not coming from an elitest.. This is coming from someone who lives in a tiny town in Michigan.

I think a clue things killed civility.

One was the internet.  The ability to throw shxt at people in perfect safety just brought out the total @$$hole in a lot of people.  The hate and gleeful abuse on the net was bound to percolate into the rest of society.

Two was the American right and it'''s fanatical hatred of Bill Clinton,  starting with the endless spew of pure hate that poured out of the ambulatory cesspool known as rush Limbaugh. That subhuman troll made a career out of pure hate,  abuse,  lies,  invective,  ad infinitum,  ad nauseum.  The toxins spread thru the American right and created new tumors like alex Jones,  Mikey savage,  Sean hannity,  etc. 

After decades of eger escalating abuse from the right the left in the us now sick of it and spitting it back at the right.  Thus died discussion,  discourse,  reason and civilty.

I am fortunate enough to be the son of a two fisted feminist and a former juvenile delinquent who later joined the army (which set him right): they raised an abandoned and abused child and set him right too.

Dad later became a cop: I don't think he ever saw the irony in the fact that a former criminal became a cop.  :teddyr:

They taught me manners and taught me to be honest, forthright and giving, also raising me to accept people for who they are which is why I am neither a racist nor a homophobe.

I have my issues but my parents raised me right and introduced me to cinema too.  :thumbup:

Everything changes yet every thing remains the same.  :wink:

Partisan feuds are as old as America, even older - going back to Cato and Caesar.  If you think that one side is to blame for all the rancor in America today, you have a very selective and partisan memory.  It spans both sides of the spectrum from the middle to the fringe; it's just the internet has turned both fringes mainstream.

It seems to me the internet has made being rude mainstream. Because it's like AA- nobody knows your name but everyone knows your business. And-like AA- you can lie all you want, and not be held accountable.  That's why I always use my real name- RCMERCHANT- as in Ronald C. Merchant- as my name on any blog. I don't hide behind a phony moniker. That's why I quit Facebook. This and my Tumblr blog is the only places I go. I don't 'social network' too much.
Oh yeah- I go to the Classic Horror Film Board one in while too.
But like Indy says- ain't nothing new. Back when I was a kid in the 60's and 70's EVERYONE hated each other. You think this Trump thing is bad? Well- it is. But it's been worse. , s**t man, both the Kennedy's were shot, and Malcom X and Martin Luther King were killed and Vietnam was killing 1000's of kids on both sides.
Are you kidding? The man is 70 odd years old. Have patience. Things will get better. or they won't  Either way it's interesting history. :bouncegiggle:

Oh- and constant media bombards us on both sides by 'sponsered by' madness every day. Don't take it all in one big gulp. Sift it like picking fleas off a dog.
It IS hard not to get caught up in it. Getting caught up in a wave of revolt is how things change. Sometimes, like in Nazi Germany- it ain't so good. The USA is NOT the only country on this planet. There are billions of people who have it worse than us. I'm very grateful I live here.
Sven, the fact of the matter is- nobody's innocent. They never have been.

I have a theory that is related to perpetual low interest rates. everything is whats happening now and of the moment. qualities like modesty are non existent and seen more as faults

You are aware that the Chinese use 'May you live in interesting times' as a curse,  yes?

walking quietly away.... :cheers:

This is a perfect example of incivility; and I think it is historically important.   How did American culture get to the point where a major movie star would obscenely insult the President on a live nationwide TV broadcast?  

http://youtu.be/1zNr8Pf1QkY (http://youtu.be/1zNr8Pf1QkY)  

 I could not see the video because it was behind an onskippable ad,  was it about someone saying something mean about trump?  Or was it about times when Ted nugent said horrible things about Obama and Hillary?  Or the rimes he made clearly threatening statements about them?  Or was it about the time a California Republican named mansion called Obama a " f---en ni--er" and called for him and his 'monkey daugbters' to be assassinated?


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/jules-manson-obama_n_1161044.html (https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/20/jules-manson-obama_n_1161044.html)

If it was about someone being mean to trump,  how we got here is simple: decades of abuse from right has pushed the left to a state of anger and it's finally being returned. 

You can't sit through an ad? You can just install adblocker if you really can't handle a single unskippable ad. He just says "f**k Trump. It's no longer 'down with Trump' it's 'f**k Trump'."




So what you're saying is that we have to be just as toxic, evil, and nasty as Ted Nugent and co? We can't just be better people than them? I thought we were supposed to grow out of the "you did it to me, so I'll do it to you" mentality when we're still children. If you recognize what these people said was gross why do you want to emulate them?

Sometimes you just get sick of hateful people trowing sh-t at you and finally have enough. My breaking point came when i heard a trump supporter call for "the liberal genocide to begin in America". That was my breaking point. I'm not even going to try holding in my hate and disgust for these people anymore.

https://freethoughtblogs.com/affinity/2017/03/09/i-cant-wait-for-the-liberal-genocide-to-begin/ (https://freethoughtblogs.com/affinity/2017/03/09/i-cant-wait-for-the-liberal-genocide-to-begin/)

I'm tired of trying to be reasonable with a bunch of hateful morons who are trying to go as far into absolutely insanity as possible.

I'm tired of taking the high road to defeat, maybe it's time to take the low road to victory. If we have to out hate these people, so be it.

Also, to see the far right, which has dragged america down to the levels it's at in terms of hate, now cry for civility when their golden (shower) boy is being targeted for some after all the hate and vileness they threw at democrats, clinton, obama, etxc for so long just fills me with utter disgust.

I think, Svengoolie 3, that you missed my point.  I don't agree with everything you say, but much of it.  However, it's how you say it that is repellent. 

All sides, left and right, recognize this end to civility.  It is a mistake to blame one side and not recognize the shortcomings of another. 

I think ROBERT DeNIRO's statement is very important, though, uncivil.  I think what he did was Rock N' Roll. 

While we are all lamenting about civility- you act like this s**t never happened. Gimme a break.  :lookingup:

You talkin' t'me?  You talkin' t'me? 

We used to have some decency in america. People knew FDR, DDE and JFK were having affairs with women they weren't married to. They didn't go public with it out of decency and a kind of "Let's respect our fellow MAN" mentality. Certain things were off limits. You didn't attack a man's family, especially kids.  People knew fdr needed a wheelchair but his political rivals didn't attack him for it.

That's all gone now. That nazi blimp limbaugh made cheslea clinton fair game. Phyllis Schaffly made hillary Clinton fair game. There's no decency, no civility, left in modern politics. John Mccain, who i voted against, was it's last gasp when he told a heffer at a rally of his not to say obama wasn't "one of us, an american" and he said obama was a fine man personally. That was the death rattle of American civility. And do note i just praised a republican. Fast forwards a few years and look at the vitriolic hate that thing with the roaring anus for a mouth attacked John Mccain with. How it said it preferred people who weren't captured, how a member of it;s staff dismissed mccain with a "He'll be dead soon!" attitude.

Yeh, and, your point? 

It's the same old same old.
Hitler was screaming hate years ago.
There's nothing new under the sun.

Racism, hate, bigotry- none of this is new. I mean-c'mon. Just because we have a moron in the White House who embraces these values didn't happen over night. They were ALWAYS here. It just became the fad. I see a lot of good in the world- and our children are, for the most part- repelled by it. The pendulum always swings from right to left, and back again.
Civility? Putting a wig on a pig.

Not the end of the world.

So you DO want to be like the people you hate. Cool cool.

When you take the low road it makes other people less likely to want to join your side.
If you're going to be critical of someone else for being nasty you don't want to do the exact same thing and make yourself a hypocrite.
You acknowledge that the death of civility is a bad thing but you still want to contribute to it?

I'm not even trying to reason with the right anymore. I'm tired of trying to tell the truth to people who believe in 'alternative facts'.  I'm tired of trying to reason with people who respond with nothing but insults.  I no longer want to bother trying t to talknwithbthem.  I just want to throw their own vileness at them and basically fight them.  I've reached the point where I really just want to attack them and fight them.  I'm not interested in trying to talk with people who have the minds of hateful children.  I!'mbsicknof them.  And yes.  I hate them.

 My brother Glenn is a Nazi. I don't scream at him- I ignore him. Fighting it in the Bad Movie Forum world is different then guns in the REAL world. I ain't gotta gun. I can scream all day long. But I won't.  Ain't nothing but a thing.
He puts so much time and effort into it.
 My brother Glenn. Ya know. My point is...!  :question:
...no point,really.  :bluesad:
Sven- the world will keep spinning no matter how loud you yell.  So-ya know-chill out. Watch a movie.  :drink:
Put on a record- read a book- cook on the grill-relax!

Most peoples ideas and beliefs are a deep set thing. For many it is immutable and changing anyones mind on something is damn hard work, and it can't always be done. Based on the arguments I've seen you in on this forum, if that is how you argue in real life, you are not going to persuade anyone to change and I am not surprised you are feeling worn out by it. For myself I find the best way to change someones mind is to set what for want of a better term I'll call leaving a trail of breadcrumbs. You do a few things and let someone lead themselves to a conclusion that has them rethink their mindset. Sometimes people will decide to stick to what they already believe in, other times they'll slowly change their ways. By and large though most people don't like changing their minds on things and it takes rock solid proof that they are wrong about something to change it. Hell a good proportion of the successes you do have will slowly slip back into old ways of thinking over time. It normally takes a major life event to get someone to sit back and reassess their particular interpritation of reality.

Quick example, had a friend who was convinced anyone who was homeless well it had to be their own fault. They had to be alcoholics &/or junkies to get themselves in that situation and they were people not worth bothering about or trying to save. He never said it out loud but I suspect he thought of them as being subhuman. Anyway, me and this particular friend went to see a concert in Edinburgh one night (Ozzy Osborne on the Theatre of Pain tour '92, man what a night that was. Best live performance I have ever seen). We stopped to grab some chips (fries to my American readers) and ended up missing the train we wanted to get to Glasgow. We caught the next train, but as a knock on effect we then missed the train from Glasgow to get home.

Anyway, I took him up to Buchannon Street Bus Station as it was a rainy night and we could get shelter there and sleep on a bench (sadly since they remodelled the station this is no longer possible to do), but it was a place I was aware lots of homeless people also crashed out in overnight. I think he (William), thought he was going to be robbed and murdered, but the people there were nice to him, offered to share their food, loan blankets and were generally nice to him. I could see written all over his face that he was realising his perceptions of these people were entirely wrong and after that he treated them differently.

I'd like to say there was a happy ending to that, but by the time a year had passed his experiences had faded somewhat and he was back to his old views. Even if done the same thing to him again later on the emotional impact would have been lessened until eventually it would have had no effect on him.

Still I wonder how some years after this, how the time he spent in prison for what I view as an extremely abhorrant crime would affect him and his views on the world.

Anyway, save the people you can, but don't try and save everyone. It is too much to do and it will break anyone who tries sooner rather than later. And as much as it might feel hopeless doing anything else fighting fire with fire will achieve nothing. I remember hearing on some tv show someone saying (and I think it was an episode of Star Trek TOS) "If a good man has to use evil methods to win, what is the difference between good and evil?" I'd say if a good man has to use evil to win then he was never a good man.