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So, who do you think is the worst?
If you think Millard Fillmore is the worst-you can write that in.

RC, I think you probably meant Andrew Johnson, not Andrew Jackson. [edit: sorry, I see you put them both in.]

Andrew Johnson was pretty damn bad. Scholars seem to think James Buchanan was the worst. His lack of leadership is often credited as one of the causes of the Civil War. Hard to get much worse than that.

I don't think Trump should be included in the poll because he's only halfway through his Presidency. Let's look back on him in a couple years.

I voted Andrew Jackson. Just seemed like he enjoyed killing and robbing from the Indian tribes too much.

Yes- I did mean to include Andrew Jackson- only because he's my personal 'worst'.
And I don't think Trump should be excluded-he's managed to become one of the most hated US official in recent memory-and I remember Watergate-and he already makes Nixon look like a Boy Scout. And it's only been 3 years.
But that's just me...whatta I know? I like peanut butter and baloney samwhiches!

ANDREW JACKSON was evil; a true man of the people... and of his time.   :thumbdown: :bluesad:

Jackson has been misrepresented IMO. He was a man of his time; although it was brutal, his relocation of the Cherokee and the other "Five Civilized Tribes" from Georgia and Alabama probably saved them from mass slaughter.
I strongly recommend John Meacham's bio of him to get a more balanced picture.  He was a far more complex man than modern pop culture makes him out to be.
I'd go with James Buchanan as the worst; his utter lack of leadership hastened the onset of the Civil War.
Of the ones on your list, Andrew Johnson.  He was an awful man, a hater when America needed a healer, and the worst possible successor to Abraham Lincoln.
Trump - the jury is still out, but I imagine history will not be kind to him.  But it takes 20 years to get perspective on a leader.

What does anyone have against poor old Fillmore, anyway?

Good god, RC! Putting FDR on this? SHeesh, he was one of america's second best presidents. He's tied with Teddy Roosevelt.

As for worst, so far, Ronald Reagan. (SPIT!)

His regime began the death of the middle class and the ascension of a plutocracy that is turning America into the world's richest third world country. His anti union stance helped destroy organized labot in america resulting in the working class losing ground economically for 40 years. He slashed taxes on the rich and imposed taxes on social security to cover it.

He could have started a war with russia but thankfully Gorbachev was in power and more mature than Reagan (SPIT!)

His war on drugs and his closure of mental treatment hospitals exploded the american prison population. His drug policies created crack cocaine. 

While I'm no mainstream theist, if there is something like a hell i hope he's deep in it.

Glad to see Harding make the list.  The litany of scandals under his regime cannot be ignored.  Plus he cheated on his wife for many years and was a drunk scumbag.

... and his illegitimate daughter was born in a house in Asbury Park, NJ (in a room I slept in many nights) that was owned by a friend of mine.  He used to call that room the "birthing room". 

Grover Cleveland had the same issue.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/president-clevelands-problem-child-100800/ (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/president-clevelands-problem-child-100800/)

His enemies chanted "Ma! Ma! Where's my pa?" art him.

After he won his supporters chanted back "Gone to the white house, HAW! HAW! HAW!"

Your hyperpartisan blindness towards Reagan is stunning.
You know that most historians - people who study and evaluate our Presidents for a living - rank him anywhere from 8th to 12th out of 45?
He was the first President I ever voted for; I was and am proud of that vote to this day.
But then, you and I rarely agree on much of anything.

I voted for Trump here, but I just thought...I mean, what are we gauging our answers on?

I mean, William Henry Harrison was president, but only for like a month, and really didn't do anything in those short 4 or 5 weeks.  So shouldn't he, by default, take the cake on 'worst' front?

I mean, there've been others who've done terrible things, etc, but you can usually find at least ONE or TWO things they might've done that was ok. 

I'm disappointed, Happy.  

Indy, I feel the need to point out that Sven had praised TR.   

I based my vote on who I believed harmed america the most,  and ronny raygun wins that hands down.  His slashing of the top tax rates from 70 to 28 percent enriched the rich and has hurt everyone else.  He was the first to tax social security.  His drive to deregulate everything in sight lead to one economic disaster after another. The S&L bailout (anyone remember that?)  Which we're still laying for, was a direct result of raygun's deregulation. Rich people just went into an orgy of theft after the regulations were gutted on S&Ls and taxpayers were  handed the bill. We've gone from one economic disaster after another after raygun started the deregulation ball rolling and in each case the rich got richer and everyone else got poorer.

As I said,  I don't  know if there is a hell but if there is something like it I hope that evil prick is working for minimum wage in it as a public bathroom attendant.  

And I know some sources call him a great president,  those sources tend to have a clear bias to the right.

Thanks,  I also stick up for that that well known democrat liberal socialist communist nazi Dwight D.  Eisenhower.  :bouncegiggle:

The American Historical Association is NOT biased to the right at all.
You are ALL ABOUT class warfare.  Hate the rich, hate everyone who has more than you do.  If you devoted half the energy to improving yourself that you do to these endless screeds against everyone who falls outside your narrow perspective of acceptability, you might have a happier life.
FWIW, Reagan's policies raised incomes ACROSS THE BOARD for the next six years. Every income level grew, from the lowest to the highest, according to the IRS tax files.  He restored hope and faith to a country that had fallen into a morass of despair following our defeat in Vietnam and the disastrous Presidency of Jimmy Carter (good man, good Christian, woefully inept President!).  And he, more than any other person, deserves credit for casting the Soviet Union onto the ash heap of history where it belonged.
But none of that matters.  Some Americans did better than you, so Reagan is Satan.

As Lloyd Benson put it to Dan quayle "If you let me write 200 billion in hot checks I can give you  the illusion of prosperity too! "

Reagan's "prosperity" was based mainly on massive deficit spending.

Actually, much of it was plain old economic growth.  America was open for business again!
And that deficit spending was what put the Soviet Union, one of the most evil regimes in history, in its grave.
We could afford the arms race, they couldn't.  It broke them, and they threw in the towel.

The three worst in order: Harding, Buchanan, and dead last, Obama.

Conveniently ignoring Duhbya who sacrificed america's credibility in the world by his invasion of irag, his murder of hundreds of thousand ds of Iraqi citizens, his attempt to steal iraq's oil,  his wasting of trillions of dollars on a false and illegal war based on lies,  the fact he removed a stable secular   dictator who would not  tolerate radical Islam and left iraq open to the formation of ISIS,  who turned america into a nation that has committed a vale flat war,  mass murder and attempted grand larcenary on a national level and left us with thousands of dead sevicdemen and hundreds of thiousands of badly wounded ones.

Indy attacked me for my hate of the right blinding me to reagan's perfection, yet you  will no doubt not be attacked for your clear case of Obama Derangement Syndrome.

I also think President Obama's semi-concealed sexual orientation will come to light one day, much as President Kennedy's private life later emerged. Couldn't care less that he's into men, I don't entirely credit the fact so many young gay men from his past turned up dead circa 2008 means they were silenced, his sexuality has nothing to do with my ranking him as the most ineffective President, but I do believe that of him and time will possibly prove that true.

Virtually everything you said about W was wrong, but of course you won't believe that.
IN all honesty, it is FAR too soon for there to be any rational analysis of him, or Obama, yet. Everyone races to their partisan talking points and bashes away. I think, when the dust settles, Bush will be pretty far from the bottom, and Obama much further from the top than he is now.

Wayne, bury as many of your friends as I did mine from Mr. Bush's war before you speak to me about it. I found little to admire in GWB, yet even considering the cost of his wars, our forty-fourth President was more damaging, mostly because I do think he harbored enmity toward his own country.

And, no, Sven, I'm not going to smite you for your political views, like you just did me, lol.

I swear once upon a time we all but held hands and sang campfire songs together on this site. Hmm, that was before you came here, now I think about it, Sven.

Where do you get your information from, Ann Counter,  who routinely and reflexively referers to democrats as "faggots"?

I gotta go take some aspirin.  You'll be happy to know you're  giving me a headache.

Someone just smited me,  I assumed it was you.  Also you attacked RCM for no reason and drew fire for it.

Well, you know what they say about assuming, eh?

Tell you what, if in ten years it appears I was wrong in my assertion about President Obama's homosexuality, I'll buy you a season pass to the Field Museum. If it turns out I was right, you have to vote Republican. We on?

As for Ann Coulter, I barely know little more about her than who she is and that she is extreme. I don't listen to talk radio, don't watch FOX News, don't visit right-wing forums, have few right wing friends and no right-wing family. I am not a registered Republican, and I am the only non-Democrat in a long line of them. I supported Democrats up until 2008. I've told you before I grew up going to Democrat fundraisers where high-profile Democrats came, John Glenn (a hero), Tipper Gore (a funny lady), many others. so if anything I know the inside of that party much better than the other. I also know I have my reasons for believing Mr. Obama was a dismal President. It is my sincere conviction and I wouldn't say so out of hyperbole or to create controversy.

Or to give you a headache. (Honestly, you should be able to face dissenting views without manifesting physical illness. Practice tolerance, it'll help you mature.)

Ok,  outside the fox news alternate universe,  how is anything I said about duhbya wrong?

He attacked iraq claiming they we'qre involved with 911, no evidence of an Iraqi link has ever been found.  

He attacked iraq on the pretense of "WMDs",  none have been found outside the fox news continuum.

Documents have come to light making it clear duhbya intended from the first day of us presidency to remove Saddam Hussein from power and was looking for a pretense to.

Saddam Hussein paid lip service to Islam but was a secularist.  When radical Muslims demanded to demonstrate he forbade them to.  When they defied him and demonstrated anyway he massacred some 1500 of them,  effectively nipping radical islam's efforts at taking root in iraq in the bud.

No credible source has found any evidence ce Hussein was behind 911 (I'm sure he was happy when it happened)  or was building WMDs.  Bush's  whole justification for the war was a pack of lies and he really wanted to take their oil.  He made america gyuoty of aggressive war and mass murder.

PS: Since you found out I did not give you negative karma, you should make up for your mistake and give me good karma tomorrow, lol.

Night, everyone. Pace!

I'd  decided to.

(https://www.dollartree.com/ccstore/v1/images/?source=/file/v8027818279522574859/products/943588.jpg&height=475&width=475)
Great!  I still have plenty of tortilla chips left from the Super Bowl.

Do you think about it, Evelyn?   :question:  
I'd guess when you're reading your lips don't move (like mine  :teddyr:) but I'd guess when you're writing your bowel moves.  

how exactly did this affect Americans? who btw prospered mightily during his tenure

number one worst is abraham Lincoln. of all the resolutions to the issue of slavery he chose the worst: a massive war that killed hundreds of thuosands of people, virtually none of whom had anything to do with the slave trade. also began loathsome trends of centralization of government, suspended writ of habeas corpus.

when it was all over he was the first to have black guests to the white house. during the visit he implored them to go back to Africa! unbelievable that this loser is considered a hero, though ending slavery was one unqualified good

I included FDR, not because I didn't-like him-I thought he was great-but because many believe he was a Socialist and created the Welfare state. But at the time-, he was despised by many.

And beloved by more.  FDR ranks high on the list of BEST.  I understand why you'd include him, detractors he certainly had and has. 

Didn't states start leaving right after he was elected?

Wasn't the U.S. ecconomy fairly poor in the 70's? Stagflation & Whip Inflation Now & the Oil Crisis & all that? Also, can you use the presidents' real names. I know you're trying to be a satirist, but it makes your posts hard to understand.

America has become a country where peolle feel that not onky are they free to choose their own opinions,  but their own facts,  truths and realities.

Doesn't the right complain about the same thing?

Point by point:  Bush NEVER claimed Iraq was responsible for 9/11; he hung it around the necks of Al Qaeda from the very beginning. He did speculate that Iraq may have been behind the string of anthrax attacks that followed 9/11, however, since Saddam was known to have been experimenting with weaponized anthrax.

As far as WMD's, that right wing rag THE NEW YORK TIMES reported that multiple stockpiles of sarin gas shells were recovered in Iraq after the invasion.  They were older shells, made in the 1980's, but the fact is Saddam had signed a treaty promising to destroy them and he had not done it.  Several of our troops suffered chemical poisoning when insurgent forces used some of those sarin shells in roadside bombs.  Saddam signed off on some 13 UN Resolutions after the first Gulf War and proceeded to violate all 13 at one time or another.  He fired on UN peacekeepers; kicked  weapons inspectors out of the country when they got close to stuff he didn't want them to find, he repeatedly violated the "no-fly zones" over Southern Iraq, and then to top it all off he tried to assassinate a former U.S. President, when George H.W. Bush visited Kuwait after leaving office.

Keep in mind that the armistice ending the Gulf War clearly stated that if Saddam violated the resolutions he signed, that would constitute a basis for renewal of hostilities.  The Iraq War can be laid at the doorstep of one man - Saddam Hussein.

As for ISIS - the insurgency was pretty well crushed and the country pacified when Bush left office.  Obama yanked all our troops out before the new government was stable enough to keep the peace - AGAINST the advice of his Joint Chiefs, Defense Secretary, and Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, to keep his promises to the anti-war brigade. And guess what?  ISIS happened almost immediately thereafter.

And, incidentally, can you produce a smidgen of evidence, anywhere, that we "stole Iraq's oil"? I know some on the right proposed taking possession of the oil fields to pay for the cost of the war, but Bush rejected that from the outset.

Once more, your answer is long on emotion and short on facts.

when they said WMD I don't think thats what most people had in mind.


 the status of forces agreement was signed by Bush before he left office. that BUsh had "won" iraq then obama lost it is a complete and total fantasy.


I'm surprised you are a bagholder on this conflict Indiana. It was clearly the wrong decision for our country in many obvious and measurable ways. I know you like George Bush but theres a thing called accountability.


re: Saddam  not a fan but holy crap he was at least a better leader than this guy maduro in Venezuela. the guy is meatball just sitting there watching his country go into the dirt. Walter mondale had more testerone

The iraq invasion was about oil. Bush regime documents prove it.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/20/iraq-war-oil-resources-energy-peak-scarcity-economy (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2014/mar/20/iraq-war-oil-resources-energy-peak-scarcity-economy)

ehh... I think they wanted saddam to not have the power that selling oil provided him with, but Iraq was a long time project for DC going back to the 90's and even earlier. it was mostly the brainchild of neoconservatives who were motivated out of a concern for israels security. when saddam launched scuds at tel aviv that pretty much sealed his fate. That was their whole shot though, America is never ever going to consent to another war over there

Why Obama? Just curious.

There is a difference between not wanting an unstable and hostile dictator to have a stranglehold on a significant chunk of the world's oil supply and taking it for ourselves.

I keep on forgetting what the Whig party did, so probably them.

lester, I thought TR was the first President to have a black guest to dinner at the White House?

President Obama, I believe, had an enmity toward the country that I don't think any other President had. He made policies that at times seemed to me to be directly contrary to the national interests. I disagreed with him on nearly every issue, but that alone was not the core of my rating him so lowly, it was his fundamental conviction that this country was shamefully wrong and in need of a top to bottom overhaul that would have been damaging to the nation in ways that might have made recovery impossible. I do think he did more harm than any recent President, and as I said, he truly disliked most of what this country is about.

But you know....just being honest here, I think the moment I loathed him most of all was watching him make jokes and basketball comments during a Medal of Honor presentation that concerned events that saw US service members die. It was so inappropriate I felt disgust in a personal way that had nothing whatsoever to do with politics. His contempt for the military "the Marine CORPSE" was horrific.

I will give the man one thing, compared to George W. Bush, President Obama had a far better relationship with his intelligence services, and tended to stay out of operations. Bush placed yes-men in leadership and then disregarded everything he was told that contradicted his convictions as dictated by "Mr. Gut" (his term). Still that's like saying, he didn't suck AS much.

They opposed Andrew Jackson, which would make them somewhat elitist, but Jackson had his fair share of problems too.

The Whigs eventually fell apart over the issue of slavery; abolitionists joined the Republicans; slavery supporters joined the Democrats or the Know-Nothings.

Unless you're talking about the British Whigs. They knew how to parteeeeeeee!

I agree to an extent and kinda feel that. 

Honestly, while I liked him overall, I don't agree with all of his policies or anything.  Granted, I'm looking back as someone who wanted to believe he'd be great. 

I should've thought out a more proper response honestly. 

I was born in '84.  So, just in regards to my lifetime, I've had: Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump.  Can't speak on Reagan as I was still in diapers and only looking via history books. 

Of those six, Bush Jr and Trump would take my vote for worst. 

But I'd really have to gauge my feelings tomorrow and look at the overall legacies of each.