Badmovies.org Forum

I know some of you will disagree with me, but there are some movies i've come accross that i will never watch again because the violence level is too extreme...I'm not refering to movies like "The Toxic Avenger" for example, you know, movies that lack in the acting and writing department so they make the violence and gore the main attraction. These kind of movies can be graphically violent every 15 minutes, but it is so over the top that it just looks silly and sometimes funny....The flying balls (get your minds out of the gutter kids) in "Phantasm" that jab into foreheads and spew 10 gallons of blood come to mind.
But when a movie tries to take itself too seriously, movies like "Natural Born Killers" or (gulp..here comes the hate mail) "The Fight Club" how much violence is necessary for the director to make his point that "see! these guys are crazy and evil, but they're still heroes among their peers!"
Am I making any sense here, or should i just crawl back into my coffin?

There was a point to the excessive violence in "natural born killers", particularly in it's method of making the audience laugh an then be at unease with their reaction if not desensitization of the violence. I never did understand why people didn't get it. Guess it was a tough movie to find an audience for. I don't think it was a great film, but one that held a mirror up to our societies face.

As for flying blades and blood spewing..the 80's made a name for itself in going over the top! Probably what killed the genre for many years - but hey, I like corny violence you can laugh at. Better than the pain and agony of having to endure "Glitter"

the horror! the horror!

Natural Born Killers was a comedy. Anyone who thinks Fight Club is too violent is a lightweight. Honesly, a film has never been too violent or gory for me.

Hoo boy. J.R........

You completely missed the point of "Fight Club" if you could just ease it off like that. It was basically a test of how much film audiences had become "numbed" to violence and to which levels they could take it. According to that system, you are.....*makes calculations* a solid 5-ton chunk of ice-cold granite. Have a nice day, rockboy, and try not to erode of the way out.

The violence in Fight Club didn't disturb me as such because it served the purpose of the story so well -- there was no way to express the desperation of these men trying to find and outlet for their male aggression in a "sissyfied" society, without that level of violence.

The violence I dislike is the kind that doesn't seem to fit.  Like the "basketball smashing the old lady's head" scene in Deadly Friend; it didn't fit at all with how the rest of the story was told.

Nathan

Gore  does not = Violence

Fight Club was a very violent movie. In its brutal beatings and such.

The only movie that has been maybe too gory for me is Hellraiser.
I saw a clip from it and decided I didn't really wanna see it. hehe.
Everything else I've taken though. Maybe I'm wrong about wether
or not I should see hellraiser or not. I dunno.

I have nothing against violence on the screen as far as it serves a purpose. Believe me, there are many movies that use violence much worse than "Natural born killers" or "The fight club". Others have tried to explain the reasons because those movies used violence and I don't want to sound redundant.

What I really hate is when violence or profanity are used just because it is suppossed to be cool or to show the audience how supposedly "daring" and "mature" the filmakers are. Believe me when I say I am not a republican or a catholic freak when I say I hate every minute of "Deep Rising", because Stephen Sommers makes a constant overuse of swear worfds and gore just to make us feel we are in an "adult" movie when his pathetic flick couldn't be more childish.

Note: I live in a country with no censorship (I'm european) and I prefer it this way. People must have right to choose what they want to see.

I love cinematic violence.  i will rent a movie soley based on the fact that it is gory.  "Slop it on", I say with a beaming smile.  The only time I turn my head away in disgust is those damn cannibal films where they kill real animals or any of those mondo films where they exploit real death.  Natural Born Killers and Fight Club were no problem to sit through and I don't think it matters if the violence is appropriate of not (however, violence is in both those cases).  My friends and I all read Fangoria growing up and only 3 of them became serial killers (just joshing).  I think, if a filmmaker's going to make violence disturbing it solely counts on the atmosphere.  Oliver Stone did it great with NBK, with it's hyped up editing that made us feel guilty about enjoying it while it's happening.  Whether it be sleazy or smart (Sleazy: Last House on the Left/ Smart: Henry) it all depends on the mood the director creates.  That's why a relatively bloodless movie like Frailty can shake people up more than the blood drenched Dead/Alive (both great films by the way).  I'd say that the only films that teetered on the edge of too much cinematic violence (for me anyway) were the German films Zombie 90' Extreme Pestilance and Violent @!#$, but once again it was the mood the director created, namely, no mood whatsoever.  It was obvious in these films that the director just liked shocking people and loved violence and torture itself.  I could picture him at home watching Banned In America and Faces of Death thinking it was "so cool".  But, being the trooper I am I rented both.

Overall most movies aren't that violent. I think there's excessive watered down violence in movies flicks but few are really over the top. Half the ones that are have a point..usually it's to show how as a society we've become disconnected with violence because of the desensitization to it. Other times it's often a horror movie. Other times it's Steven Seagals acting.

All I can say is don't take your 5 year old to the movie, it's fine for adults. Kids don't need to be spending all day on the tv and then all nite on the computer playing games. Don't they go outside to play anymore? I remember my mother having to drag me in after dark..but..i digress.  We've really become a sissy society when parents actually want to SUE because they're kid tried jumping off the kitchen counter to fly because they saw it on Harry potter. Kids will always do stupid things, they don't need tv. We used to read comic books and try jumping off the roof of our house. I think george carlin called it "natural selection"

To watch a violent movie that more often has an intelligent POINT to it..you have to pay attention to the storyline and not just the images. At least it's imaginary, for millions of years our ancestors watched the real thing. Gladiator fights, mans rights of passage (young boys impaled and strung up or knives carving into their heads or killing a bear to prove they're a man), virgin sacrifices, cannibalism, torture chambers, mass public executions...I think as a society we've actually come a long way..lol

As for profanity - isn't that how everyone talks...dammit? lol

Hummm......still......when does the image have the same effect as the physical reality it recreates? I often have to ask.....if training films and simulations are so usefull for prepareing soldiers for combat, could some people not be adversly affected? Lets not be too swift to say it has No effect. Just that the individual response is a tough thing to rate. Call it...oh..."One man's entertainment is another man's Instruction manual." Boy, the trigger pulling alone that i've seen..................

For sure movies effect people.  Movies effected me my whole life.  I don't think movies are the culprits here however.  Violence has been around much longer than film, and I hate to break it to ya, but it's gonna be around forever.  As much as I love violent films I cannot comprehend how someone would want to kill period.  Forget the external trigger device (movies) and focus on the important part (the person).  It's an arguement that's brought up all the time and as long as people are looking to place the blame elsewhere the arguement will probably go on forever too.

What I think is bad are films that show violence without consequence.  I think those HOME ALONE movies are a lot worse in their portrayal of violence than most horror films.  

I just got the BEYOND THE DARKNESS DVD today.  Man, I forgot how gory that movie was!

Susan said: "As for profanity - isn't that how everyone talks...dammit? lol"

I guess you were talking about my post. Personally, I am a liberal and I am in favour of people using profanity as much as they feel like. And of course people speak like that - and so do I. It is just that now and then I feel some movies use it for no reason at all, and I found it annoying.

Along those lines, I just noticed that the "bad word replace" function is turned on in this new version of Phorum.  That must be the default.  I will find it and turn it off, because we really do not have a problem with useless cursing around here.

>>That must be the default. I will find it and turn it off, because we really do not have a problem with useless cursing around here. <<

well now you went and opened pandora's box. ;-)

Actually, show me all the violence against humans you want, but when you start hurting the animals you've gone too far. There's just something about hurting a kitten or puppy or something.

I don't like it when children are involved. Adults are one thing but in a world where violence against children is becoming more common, I really feel it has no place in movies.

Violence again'st children isn't common in today's world. Did you know at the turn of the 20th century it was commonplace to purchase orphans to do slave labor on farms..often abused and starved? Well I think we've come a long way, we're a society that actual caters to children..you still have your sickos out there. I think we've lost touch with reality - we see reports in the news and think it's everywhere. In fact it's less so because people are afraid to even spank their own kids...vs generations prior who believed "what goes on behind closed doors is nobody's business" That's a whole other issue and way too serious for here.

Not many films that show violence against young children, only teens..but that's a given since they're the victims in sex camp horrors. Now if you're talkin children DOING the violence..that's not their fault..usually it's because they were turned into zombies. ;-)

I only state the fact of it being common as the rash of kidnappings and here in my home town a 11 year old and 15 year old were murdered, the same day they found that little girl in California(So you know I'm in NW Indiana). I also say common because it seems like I cannot open the paper or turn on the TV without hearing about some poor kid who was caught in the crossfire of a gang shootout(Not so common anymore) or parents who do it just to shut them up(more common everyday)
I am the father of 3 and I believe I have a right(just as any parent) to be concered about violence against kids

i respect your opinion , umm (but obviously not enough to remember your name) nbk was over the top what do you expect from a movie titled "natural born killers" this movie was violent but it made a point and was great film. fight club, my favorite film ever , i do not feel is over the top it portrays violence realisticly, and if it doesnt blame it on the book not the director. if you want to see a violent movie with no redeeming value see "the doom deneration" i couldnt finish it in one sitting the violence is way, way over the top and the movie has no social comentary. maybe after seeing that piece of trash you can aprieciate the other fore montioned films to of my favorites

I love when they kill off a kid in a horror flick.  That means all bets are off, everyone's fair game.  To think, in Speilberg's classic, Jaws, that kid gets killed in a horrific way and years later in his dud Jurassic Park, the audience knows the kids are in no real peril, there's no way they'll die.  It is a shock when a child dies in a film, but in the long run, it is only make believe.
Oh yeah, I also love irresponsible, exageratted, overly graphic film violence with no redeeming qualities also.

I have to say that I agree with the general concensus that movie violence where the author/director are making a statement (fight club and nbk i would definately file in this category) but those where there is no point just random gratuitous violence is disgusting.   However there are few that would fall under that banner.

I don;t think that I have ever heard really offensive language in a movie (half the time it just goes over your head - you'd probably be surprised just how often) most of the males in my life speak a lot worse.

Meanwhile, what are views on drug use in movies?

Laitka said: "Meanwhile, what are views on drug use in movies?"

I would say they are more or less the same than on movie violence. I don't mind movies showing drug taking or drug addiction, but I would feel a bit relieved if its consequences were shown as well, if the plot allows it.

Oh, about violence exrced by or over kids, I see somebody hasn't read "Lord of flies" or seen "Village of the dammed". Personally, I think children can be extremely cruel, because they haven't been taught yet all the social rules about violence and its use, and now and then, when I see children in movies I found quite annoying how "perfect" they are. Looks like studios find the idea of violent children too disturbing or not profitable enought.

Best killer kid movie: The Pit.  Man that kid was demented.

>for millions of years our ancestors watched the real thing. Gladiator fights, mans
>rights of passage (young boys impaled and strung up or knives carving into their
>heads or killing a bear to prove they're a man), virgin sacrifices, cannibalism,
>torture chambers, mass public executions...I think as a society we've actually
>come a long way..lol

 No, western society and most parts of Europe have come a long way, but for many parts of the world, all that is still commonplace. Wanna take a look at the video clip I have of a guy in some middle east country being anally impaled on a stake while the crowd cheers it on? Or the video of Daniel Pearl having his head sawed off with a knife? How about a public stoning in the middle east? Or a south American woman with half the skin on her right breast burned or ripped off? Somewhere I think I even have a clip showing an african circumcision where they just tied a cord around the skin at the end, pulled it way out and chopped the end off with a machette.

>The only movie that has been maybe too gory for me is Hellraiser.

 Hellraiser wasn't as bad as Day of the Dead. A zombie body with just the brain attached to the neck, another zombie with its guts severed and just sitting in the hole where its stomach used to be, an arm being hacked off etc.

>Not many films that show violence against young children, only teens..but that's
>a given since they're the victims in sex camp horrors. Now if you're talkin
>children DOING the violence..that's not their fault..usually it's because they were
>turned into zombies. ;-)

 Yes, but then you have to hack off their hands with a sword to kill them.

>Best killer kid movie: The Pit. Man that kid was demented

 What about The Good Son with Macauly Culkin?

 "If I let go, do you think you could fly?"

Well yes I mean western culture has come a long way..that is the society most of the posters here live in and relate to. Obviously other countries are more barbaric..but if anything just following the old traditions. We may still execute people, but we do it silently, usually painlessly, and not in a crowded street. But given the west produces the most amount of films, you have lots of people living here who figure it attributes to the violence in our society when frankly I feel the violence in our society is drastically lower than it would be if we didn't live in such a media driven PC culture. It's still there mind you, but not to the extent it has been and it could be. I think we live out our violent natures through watching films, but it's instinctual. People gawk at roadside accidents, tune into the news to watch live images or replay after replay of carnage and mayhem. We can't get enough of watching it. But overall I feel violent tendencies have been supressed in western culture. Your kids can sue you for a spanking...lol.

But we are a voyeristic culture, we have media 24-7 on tv showing us all the violence they can find. It only "seems" like things are more violent than ever but I think it's not true. It just seems that way becuase we have access to that information as where we didn't before. But being such a PC society, with social awareness I think our violence has been dramatically toned down..even in the past 100 years compared to how we used to live and treat children/people. However it's also two-sided, because the medias obsession with showing "real" violence (vs what we see in movies) is more detrimental. It is like "Natural born killers", we make specticals and celebrities out of criminals, and in turn that encourages those who want attention in life and feel like an outcast to do violence because they'll get on tv. Sounds hokey but I think if they never showed a single school shooting on tv it wouldn't have encouraged more kids to "copycat". So IMO the media is more dangerous than what movies could ever show. Course i don't think anybody here wants to get into this..we'd just go round and round with it. :)

As this thread has seemly evolved into a thread about viiolence against children, let me see what I can add to the subject. As I am mostly neutral on the subject, which can be seen from the lists below of the dozen films in which  a half dozen or more children
were killed.  More or less arragned from most violent to least violent. The ones I liked on the left, and the ones I disliked o n the right.

Doctor Zhivago                            Village of the Damned (1995)
Bugsy Malone                               Swarm
Village of the Damned (1960)   Basketball Diaries
Cemetery Man                               Red Dawn
Massacre at Central High           Revenge of the Teenage Vixens from Outer Space
Children of the Damned              Sometimes They Come Back for More

A dead child or dead children are good for one thing. They are a shorthand method to depicting the horror and tragedy of war. Though, this may be sometime of a film cliche, as the idea dates back to at least 1916 and "Intolerance," if not earlier. So, here are the war films in which a child or children die.

Alexander Nevsky                                  Lionheart
Back to Bataan                                        Man of Legend
Braveheart                                                The Mission
A Bridge Too Far                                   War and Peace (1957)
Charge of the Light Brigade (1936)   War and Peace (1968)
Cross of Iron                                              Waterloo
Glory                                                              Zulu Dawn
The Green Berets                                     300 Spartans

As for horror, ever since Frankenstein's Monster threw Little Maria into water, so that she drowned in "Frankenstein," a dead child or dead children have been a staple in horror films. Here are some of the horror films, that feature a dead child or children.

Arachnophobia                    Lair of the White Worm
Black Sabbath                     Lost Continent
Brotherhood of the Wolf   Near Dark
Cry of the Banshee            Return to Salem's Lot
Dracula (1979)                      Salem's Lot
Fright Night                            Vampire Circus
Interview with a Vampire    Twilight Zone: the Movie
It's Alive                                    6th Sense
Kronos

Of course, the fact that in some of these films, the children died, then came back as vampires may not count.

Here are some other facts. The worst (or best) years for violence against children was 1987 to 1997. In the five years since then, violence against children has more or less continually declined. The ratio is for every girl killed in a film, then 2.82 boys are killed. And the best "killer kid" film, that will be taken up tomorrow, when I can double check my notes.

As I said in yesterday's post,, if one is looking for a good "killer kid" film, then one has to look no further then some horror films. As what is a vampire, basically? Basically, a vampire is a killer. Thus, if one has a kid vampire, one has a killer kid.
Here are some of the films that feature a child vampire.

Black Sabbath
Fright Night
I Was A Teenage Vampire
Interview with a Vampire
Lost Boys
Near Dark
Return to Salem's Lot
Salem's Lot
Ultraviolet
Vamp

Of course, if vampires are not one's thing, then one hardly can do better then one of the first killer kid films, the original "The Bad Seed" w/ Patty McCormack as the Bad Seed and outstanding work by Eileen Heckart and Henry Jones. Enjoy!

It's not always the blood loss that kills them, either. The sheer shock and pain can do some people in.

Or maybe we should start becoming like the ancient Romans, so fascinated by the terrible beauty of pain and death that we no longer care about the violence in the world around us. But it's coming up around us quick, and we can't hide from it forever....

Some movies make me want to take a bath after seeing them, I Spit on Your Grave, Cannibal Holocaust, and Tim Kincaid's Breeders come to mind.

The killing of a kid usually gives movie an edge to its threat (the best capping of a kid I have seen was in John Carpenter's Assault on Precinct 13 - "I wanted Vanilla Twist." POW! - the second best was Alex Kinter's death in Jaws and the scene were the boy walks in on his parents murder in Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer, eghads).  It should come as a surprise to no one that once someone has kids they become a tad more squeamish about offing kids in their own work (so I wasn't not THAT disturbed by Spielberg's E.T. tinkering or Carpenter's AoP13 commentary that, if he made the movie today, he would not kile the girl) because they have tendency to see their own child in their mind's eye and...well...it's disturbing.

Sometimes the death of a kid just looks cheesy and stupid because the director wants to shock the audience badly (the 'oh horrible tragedy' shot of the dead lollipop kid in Irwin Allen's hilarious The Swarm comes to mind).

Sometimes I think gore is just boring, the more a director chooses to wallow around in it the less I think that person has any trust in the movie's story (if it even has one).

As far as the real life stuff, well it's part of humanity.  We all just have to learn to deal with it.

Violence in movies is OK, and gore's always a plus. Don't get me wrong. But sometimes  people don't always like some parts of movies because they have an unpleasant association with them. For instance, I still can't watch "Indendence Day". No way. You can't make me. Uh-uh. Never in a million years. My aunt had a job in in Tower 2 and only survived because she showed up 3 minutes late for work. She had just gotten inside when the first plane hit and he just stared up at it. Then the second plane it and she ran for her life. She made it out alive, but I'm never going to watch that goddamn movie again as long as I live. Brrrrrr.

>. But given the west produces the most amount of films, you have lots of people
>living here who figure it attributes to the violence in our society

 I have a theory that parents contribute to this by inisting that anything kids watch has to have, at worst, 'cartoon' violence. Take the Power Rangers for example; lots of fighting, weapons, things blowing up, but not one of them ever gets hurt. Even the bad guys don't get killed. Kids watch it and it makes fighting look safe. Then the parents act surprised when the kids try to copy it. Same thing with shows where nobody ever gets shot or it's just a 'flesh wound'. Maybe if the kids watched a show where someone was playing with a gun and then it showed a little kid get their brains splattered against the wall, they wouldn't be so eager to play with real guns.

>Your kids can sue you for a spanking...lol.

 Yup. Now anything a kid dislikes is considered a cruel punishment. Gee, and I thought the whole point was that punishments were SUPPOSED to be unpleasant enough for the kid to never want to repeat it. Look where the non-spanking attitude has gotten us...

>Sounds hokey but I think if they never showed a single school shooting on tv it
>wouldn't have encouraged more kids to "copycat".

 Possibly. I also happen to think that, for the most part, they have the cause & effect relationship of media and violence backwards. I don't think the media makes people violent so much as people with violent tendancies like to watch violence. I grew up watching the so-called violent cartoons (Bugs, Road Runner etc), horror movies, cop shows and I haven't killed anyone... Yet. :)

>dozen films in which a half dozen or more children were killed.

 There's also the remake of The Blob where one kid gets eaten in the sewers. And of course The Children where the kids not only kill others, they themselves get killed.

>(so I wasn't not THAT disturbed by Spielberg's E.T. tinkering or Carpenter's
>AoP13 commentary that, if he made the movie today, he would not kile the girl)

 That kind of thing bugs me. Today's mainstream society has become too obsessed with being 'PC'. Look at the special edition of Star Wars, Lucas couldn't just leave the cantini scene the way it was, he had to have Greedo try to shoot Solo. True, that's what he was planning all along, but he didn't get the chance in the original. It might be PC to wait until the bad guy shoots first, but that can often get you killed (unless you're the star of the movie). I've noticed lots of little PC touches in movies and TV shows;

 There's a member of the bad guy's gang who has no fighting ability and so has no chance against the hero. Killing them would make the hero look sadistic, so these characters usually get killed by their own stupidity. Examples; Benny in the Mummy remake, Michael Caine's female assistant in On Deadly Ground.

 There's a character who starts out evil, but who has a change of heart and helps the heroes. He can't go free because he's done evil things, but it wouldn't be right to just lock him up because he DID save someone's life. So what do you do? Have him die saving the hero, then there's no messy moral questions to deal with.

 All the PC influence in movies makes me sick. Compare Fast Times at Ridgemont High to Clueless (same director), or Animal House to PCU.

>>Maybe if the kids watched a show where someone was playing with a gun and then it showed a little kid get their brains splattered against the wall, they wouldn't be so eager to play with real guns.<<

I thought you didn't want the kids to watch shows like that? ;-)

>>Gee, and I thought the whole point was that punishments were SUPPOSED to be unpleasant enough for the kid to never want to repeat it. Look where the non-spanking attitude has gotten us...<<

Yeah< i'm all for occasional and rare spanking. I was probably spanked twice but my mother could whip up an "evil eye" that made you run the minute she gave it to you. Now kids have no bounderies so all hell's broke loose and parents have given them too much control and decision-making at an early age. So they decide to scream their head off at wal-mart till mom buys them a toy to shut them up. When I was a kid we never even knew there was a toy section in the store..it was some rumor..because we only ever got stuff on birthdays and christmas..but i digress

>>There's also the remake of The Blob where one kid gets eaten in the sewers. And of course The Children where the kids not only kill others, they themselves get killed.<,

not many horror movies will go that far these days - but "Mimic" had some kids get it by the bugs. Woulda been pointless if the bugs found the kids and went against their own nature and freed them, just to be PC. I don't want to see kids getting the axe in films but..it is a film and what else is a bug gonna do? Be friends with them?

>Yeah< i'm all for occasional and rare spanking. I was probably spanked twice

 I never got formal spankings, but when mad my father was known to grab me and whack my butt a few times. A spur of the moment kind of thing.

>decide to scream their head off at wal-mart till mom buys them a toy to shut them

 My mother's friend's son was like that. I remember we were in one store and the kid was screaming his head off until his mother agree to buy him a toy, a cheap plastic train set. He opened it and had the pieces all over and then screamed even louder when she wanted to put it back in the box to pay for it. Now he's like 20 and has a daughter by his ex-girfriend.

 Chadzilla and John are perceptive enough to pick out some of the most disturbingly, violent films, which I'll expand on.
"Jaws": I think Spielberg was a better director earlier in his career, when he was less PC, then he is now, when he has become more PC,
"Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" It is not only that death of a child that is disturbing, but the whole portrayal of violence in the film, which is probably one of the most realistic portrayals of violence ever seen in a film. That, and there is no justice at the end of the film. Henry is left to continue to kill until he's caught. Which is probably true to life, but rare to see in a film. That, and a standout performance by Rooker as Henry.
"The Children" Haven't seen it. Can't comment on it.
"The Blob" There again it is not only the death of the child in the sewer, it is the whole
gratuitous nature of that scene and most of the other violence in the film, whichi is disturbing. At least in relation to the original, which had a much smaller body count, but, was just as effective.
"Assault on Precinct 13." There again it is not only the death of the child that is disturbing, It is the way that Carpenter plays with the expectations of the audience. Just when you expect a character to survive, the character is killed.
And if I may add one . . .
"Fargo" With few exceptions death is never funny in a film, and the death of a child is never funny. But, here you not only have a death of a child at the beginning of a film, but a great number of other deaths, which are suppose to be humorous,

>> never got formal spankings, but when mad my father was known to grab me and whack my butt a few times. A spur of the moment kind of thing.<<

I could sense it was coming and run and hide. Tho once in public I remember I acted out (yeah..just once!) and instead of leaving the store right then and there (or buying me a present to keep me sedated like most parents now do) My mother let out the dreaded 11 words:

"You just wait till we get to the car young lady"

So the next hour or so was terrifying..lol. I got a pop on the behind and that was that. I just learned that you can't push your parents around, that I was a child and they were the parent and I couldn't do whatever the hell I felt like. I'm not traumatized by it and I am not an abuser like everybody on tv claims happens. In fact I helped raise my godson the first 2 years of his life and around his mother he was a complete screaming mess of a misbehaved child since she had no bounderiess but in my care he was so well behaved, helpful, nice. I never spanked him. I just taught him right from wrong. I think there's a fine line between the occasional spanking and just doing it ALL THE TIME as punishment...then it becomes non-effective. (just like the parent who screams all the time just to hear themself scream)

>"The Children" Haven't seen it. Can't comment on it.

 Bus full of school kids (most all the kids in the town) passes through a radioactive/poison cloud and go missing. The kids turn up later one at a time as little zombies with black fingernails. They hold their arms out to adults and when they hug them, the adults get roasted. The only way to kill them is to chop off their hands.

>So the next hour or so was terrifying..lol. I got a pop on the behind and that was

 Hehe. :)

>that. I just learned that you can't push your parents around, that I was a child and
>they were the parent and I couldn't do whatever the hell I felt like. I'm not
>traumatized by it and I am not an abuser like everybody on tv claims happens. In

 Neither am I, although I haven't really don't any babysitting. My mother's friend's son used to stay with me some times when they'd go out, but he was older by then and we'd spend the time playing video games.

>fact I helped raise my godson the first 2 years of his life and around his mother
>he was a complete screaming mess of a misbehaved child since she had no
>bounderiess but in my care he was so well behaved, helpful, nice. I never

 The son was like that. My mother used to babysit him and at the start she spanked him a couple times, then he learned that he wasn't going to get away with the same kind of stuff that he could pull on his mother. With her, he'd scream his head off, and she'd scream at him.

All this talk of parental punishment reminds me of "Bill Cosby as himself" - the routine of the kids misbehaving and his wife screaming at teh ceiling "All right up there". Then he knew she had had enough when she screamed "I have had enough..let the beatings begin" - and the kids had the nerve to look suprised. ;-)
I don't believe in the modern way of raising kids with sending them to the corner or buying them food and gifts to keep them quiet, we're putting them on a pedistal so much that giving a child too much control can ..in effect..make a child who is totally out of control. Remember the days of going to bed without supper? Eat whats on your plate or that's all you get? I have a friend who makes her child a seperate meal from the family so he gets what he wants (which is usually pizza, hot dogs or macaroni)

Or "wait till your father gets home"? Since we as kids only got presents twice a year my mother would sometimes throw in the "Santa" factor of being good vs. naughty, tho by age 5 the rumors had spread and we knew santa was a ficticious lie created by the parent machine! Then I saw "silent night deadly night" and began to question the whole concept. An acronym for Satan, he wears a red suit, lives in an isolated place with little minions ..oops...elves. He watches you..ooo..he watches.

Not to mention his favorite thing to say is a female prostitute

but i digress

I remember a little boy getting killed in Robot Monster, a schlock black and white movie.  I was really surprised that a movie that old would kill off a main child character, even offscreen.  

As for children acting up, I work at a Blockbuster Video and witness it everyday.  It's not the children's fault though.  Moms and Dads simply do not discipline.  Well, to be accurate, they aren't even paying attention most of the time.  Appararently, in recent years, parenthood develops some kind of tunnel vision syndrome in Moms and Dads.  Therefore, while the kids generally do things they shouldn't do (knocking over movies, running around the store, running behind the counter where they obviously don't belong) Mom and Dad are in their own little oblivious world.  I fondly remember one incident where a little girl was playing with my scan gun.  I told her she couldn't do that since her Mom was right there next to her and was saying nothing.  She left it alone for a few seconds and continued to play with it after a minute.  I said nothing and came up with a cruel idea.  As I cashed out the woman, I slammed my cash drawer shut loudly, which scared the little girl who was standing next to me at that point and made her jump a foot away.  It's not my job to preach to that children that she shouldn't touch things that don't belong to her.  Oh, and I have not a bigger pet peeve than a mother buying her child a toy, after the child throws a big screaming hissy fit in the store.  I used to be scared of my father as a child, even though he never hit me.  He had a temper though and would yell like a son-of-a-b***h.  I was scared to act up.  And I am a better man now for it.

>All this talk of parental punishment reminds me of "Bill Cosby as himself" - the
>routine of the kids misbehaving and his wife screaming at teh ceiling "All right up
>there". Then he knew she had had enough when she screamed "I have had
>enough..let the beatings begin" - and the kids had the nerve to look suprised. ;-)

 Hehe. I remember that. :)

>I don't believe in the modern way of raising kids with sending them to the corner
>or buying them food and gifts to keep them quiet, we're putting them on a >pedistal so much that giving a child too much control can ..in effect..make a child

 The friend's son's father was a state trooper who spoiled him. At one point he told him "Don't worry, if you get in trouble, I'll take care of it"! Of course when he got in trouble just a couple years ago for (I think) buying pot, daddy had retired and couldn't do anything about it.

> who is totally out of control. Remember the days of going to bed without supper? >Eat whats on your plate or that's all you get? I have a friend who makes her child

 I wish my mother had been like that. She'd make stuff that I absolutely hated and make me sit there till I ate it or a couple of hours had passed.

Eat mush or starve! Worse for me, no lectures about kids in third world countries who were starving since for 3 years we lived in a third world country..lol. Thank god my mother was a good cook

Yeah, about the dad thing. I feared my dad. He was military, never hit us but was stern and expected alot. They have that way of sitting quietly in a chair reading a newspaper and if you are driving on their last nerve, sort of jumping in their chair and shaking the paper open ...it would startle you so much since for a split second you thought they were going to get up and beat the crap out of you..lol. Just their way. Mostly all I ever heard was "You do what your mother says". And the infamous line "Don't make me pull this car over."

Although once..just once..he actually DID!

I know what you guys mean. My parents are great. They've been great to me and my brother and sister. But, they also let us know they were incharge. My parents have never been abusive but they dish out punishment on the kids when neccassary. About the dinner thing. My parents knew that we needed to eat(not a problem really we love to eat). But they did have a back up plan for when we would complain about a dish, "You don't like it then don't eat it, but don't whine to me about being hungry."

As for the ORIGINAL topic, I rarely have seen movies that were too violent. However, I'm not a big fan of movies that are violent just to be violent. I like violent movies as much as the next guy but don't show a guy getting disembowled just to be doing so. It should fit intothe context of the movie. If you want to make a really gross violent movie, go for it, I'll come see it. Just make sure all this is happening for a reason and not just to be gross and violent(*cough cough*Troma *cough cough*).

I dont have any problems with violence in movies, but man o man, there is a scean in TRUTH OR DARE that just p**ses me off. A psycho killer runs over a baby carrage,with the baby still in it, on purpose. I find violence against children in real life ,and MOVIES, to be totally distastefull. I dont understand who even wants to see such a thing!

>Eat mush or starve! Worse for me, no lectures about kids in third world countries
>who were starving since for 3 years we lived in a third world country..lol. Thank
>god my mother was a good cook

 I never understood that; "Eat your food, there are kids starving in other countries". Of course I understand it now; "Be glad you have food, other kids are starving", but at the time I thought, "Great, if they're starving, send them this, then I won't have to eat it!"

 What were some of my least favorites? Mashed potatoes (wallpaper paste), asparagus (yucky tasting green mush on pieces of fishing line), broccoli (so-so tasting stuff with pieces of plastic in it), veal cutlets (breaded pieces of rubber), and cube steak (plain hamburger that you'd have to chew 5-600 times before you could even think about trying to swallow it, not to mention the little bits of rubber in it).

>Yeah, about the dad thing. I feared my dad. He was military, never hit us but was

 Me too. Except for the few smacks on the butt, my father never hit me or my mother, but he's always had a terrible temper, and when he gets mad, he likes to break things and literally *SCREAM* at the top of his lungs. The thing is that he would never give any sign of being annoyed and the least little thing would set him off. You'd say something you thought was completely innocent, get no immediate reaction from him, turn your back, and then hear something smash as he starts screaming about something. Actually, he's like a little kid, he likes to tease people, but getting teased, no matter how good natured it is, p**ses him off. Disagreeing with his opinions on anything he considers important p**ses him off. Not following his advice p**ses him off. Forgetting to do something he asked you to do, no matter what the reason, p**ses him off. His idea of recreation is sitting in a bar after work getting p**sed off at all the stupid people there (basically everyone in the world but him) and then coming home to rant about something that happened 8 hours ago.

 Back in the early 80's, he had a CB and we had one at home, mounted under the shelf of one of those pressboard stereo shelf units and my mother would talk to him on the way home each night. One day he came home and my mother made a comment about hearing him talk to his 'girlfriend'. He didn't  say a word, just walked into the living room, grabbed the CB with one hand, ripped the shelf right off the top of the unit, slammed it down on the floor, almost hitting my mother's little dog, and started stomping on the CB with his heavy work boots while screaming something like "I CAN'T EVEN F****** TALK TO A SINGLE GODDAMN F***** PERSON WITHOUT GETTING F****** S*** FROM YOU!!! EVERY SINGLE F****** DAY ALL I GET IS NOTHING BUT S*** FROM EVERY F****** PERSON I TALK TO!!!"

>the infamous line "Don't make me pull this car over."
>
>Although once..just once..he actually DID!

 Well don't keep us in suspense...? :)

My dad was the opposite. He was very quiet. And you always fear the quiet ones more because they're not as predictable. Mostly it was just a grab of the arm and would send us to the chamber. (which was our room. Back then it was punishment..we didn't have tvs, vrcs and game systems in them to keep us occupied..it was hell! Plus we practically lived outdoors as kids.)

>>>stomping on the CB with his heavy work boots while screaming something like "I CAN'T EVEN F****** TALK TO A SINGLE GODDAMN F***** PERSON WITHOUT GETTING F****** S*** FROM YOU!!! EVERY SINGLE F****** DAY ALL I GET IS NOTHING BUT S*** FROM EVERY F****** PERSON I TALK TO!!!"<<

o/~ memories..out of the corner of my mind, misty water colored memories..of the way we were

>>Although once..just once..he actually DID!
Well don't keep us in suspense...? :)<<

I don't really remember much..lol. I think he threated for us to get out of the car and he was leaving us but i think they calmed him down and we moved on. ;-) thank god or i'd probably still be somewhere in arizona.

>ones more because they're not as predictable. Mostly it was just a grab of the
>arm and would send us to the chamber. (which was our room. Back then it was
>punishment..we didn't have tvs, vrcs and game systems in them to keep us
>occupied..it was hell! Plus we practically lived outdoors as kids.)

 I was never much of an outdoors person. Too hot in the summer, too cold in the winter. Fall is good, right around Halloween.

 I was always afraid that my father would get mad and smash all my stuff. I used to have a plastic Mickey Mouse bank that I'd put any loose change into and after several years, it must have weighed 5 pounds or more. It always sat on top of a chest of drawers, which got a little cluttered, but not that bad. Also, for Christmas one year, I'd gotten a large, snap-together model kit of a Tyrannosaurus Rex, which was my favorite thing at the time and which was standing on the floor next to the chest. One day my father told me to clean the top of it. I didn't think it was bad at all, but I took a few things off, straightened up the rest and thought I did a good job. My father came in later, saw that it didn't meet his definition of 'clean', whatever that was and just took his arm and swept everything off the top of it, including a glass ashtray (both my parents have always smoked heavily and there were ashtrays in every room in the house). Of course the heavy bank landed right on top of the dinosaur model sending pieces flying in every direction. I didn't realize it at the time, but it didn't actually break, it just came apart. My father didn't care though. You have to understand that anything that isn't important to him, just plain isn't important, period. He has very little consideration for others.

>o/~ memories..out of the corner of my mind, misty water colored memories..of
>the way we were

 Were? He's still like that. A few years ago, he got p**sed about something and broke all but one the new coffee mugs that my mother had just bought a month or so before.

 His favorite thing to say is that he has to walk around on 'eggshells' for fear of upsetting everyone. Of course he never stops to consider that when other people get annoyed they sulk, pout and act crabby, when he gets annoyed he basically throws a tantrum. He explain this as he has to 'vent'. Like I said, he has very little consideration for anyone else.

>I don't really remember much..lol. I think he threated for us to get out of the car
>and he was leaving us but i think they calmed him down and we moved on. ;-)
>thank god or i'd probably still be somewhere in arizona.

 Oh darn! And I thought it was going to be something juicy! ;)