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Movies => Bad Movies => Topic started by: BoyScoutKevin on November 10, 2002, 06:50:36 PM



Title: Coolest Guns
Post by: BoyScoutKevin on November 10, 2002, 06:50:36 PM
I saw this thread posted at another website, instead of replying to it there, where I was not registered, I thought I post it here, and see what type of response I get. What are the "coolest" guns you've ever seen in a film? Here's mine.
That Peckwood Volley Gun Richard Widmark carries in "The Alamo."
That tie tac deringer Bob Cummings wears in "The Barefoot Mailman."
And that windup pistol the villain uses in "The Fabulous World of Jules Verne."
And, of course, any gatling gun. "Get outta my way! I'm goin' to crank this baby up and let it spit.!" Which can be glimpsed in . . .
Four Feathers (2002)
The New Maverick
The Northwest Mounted Police
Only the Valiant
Rooster Cogburn
Siege at Red River
Vera Cruz
The War Wagon
The Wild, Wild West (the film)
and The Wild, Wild West (the TV series)


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 10, 2002, 07:19:04 PM
Reggie's quadruple-barrell shotgun from the Phantasm movies.

The pulse rifle from Aliens, especially when Ripley tapes a flame thrower to it. Has any gun in a movie ever sounded cooler?

Antonio Banderas' sweet grenade launcher-looking shotgun from Desperado.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Drezzy on November 10, 2002, 08:10:03 PM
Jesse Ventura's mini-gun in Predator, if only for the coolness of him blowing away 3 guys in under 2 seconds.

And I second all of JR's choices, ESPECIALLY the USCMC M-41-A Pulse Rifle standard issue, with over-under 30mm pump-action grenade launcher (I've seen that movie too many f**king times).



Title: Re: The Pulse Rifle
Post by: Andrew on November 10, 2002, 10:10:18 PM
We used to play "Star Frontiers" many years ago and made rules for the lordly pulse rifle.  My vote definitely goes for it.

The rotary grenade launchers used by George Kennedy and his buddy in "Radioactive Dreams."

Another to mention is the gun used by Gene Simmons in "Runaway."

It is a video game, but I always loved the buzzsaw gun from the Doom II Chaos Deathmatch mod.  Hey, it shoots circular saw blades that bounce off of walls!  Catch two or three people in a narrow corridor and it was a serious mess.

Finally, there are few weapons that look meaner than a tactical 12-gauge pump shotgun with a folding stock.  Half of that meanness is knowing what it can do to a person.



Title: Re: The Pulse Rifle
Post by: Drezzy on November 10, 2002, 10:45:51 PM
Buzzsaw Gun...**drools**...I wish I had a computer during the prime of Doom II's popularity.............................

That Buzzsaw Gun sounds SWANK. f**k the BFG, slice-n-dice is more fun~!



Title: Re: The Pulse Rifle
Post by: wheresthecarrot on November 10, 2002, 11:07:19 PM
I have to say that the collest gun is Sex Machine's gun in From Dusak Till Dawn......everyone wants a revolver comming out of their crotch!



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 10, 2002, 11:10:21 PM
The gun from "Equalizer 2000" :)


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Creepozoid on November 11, 2002, 12:03:44 AM
J.R. wrote:
>
> Reggie's quadruple-barrell shotgun from the Phantasm movies.
>
> The pulse rifle from Aliens, especially when Ripley tapes a
> flame thrower to it. Has any gun in a movie ever sounded
> cooler?

You got my agreement there. Not amovie out there that makes firepower hardware look so beautiful as ALIENS (which is my all time fave).


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: ahab on November 11, 2002, 12:04:37 AM
I like the machine gun/flame thrower/ rocket launcher/ gas guns from Fortress. I also like Django's machine gun. Incidently does anyone know what type of machine gun Django used. The same one was used in A Fistful of Dollars.




Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Dano on November 11, 2002, 01:17:09 AM
"Give me a good blaster at my side any day."  - H. Solo

And although it had terrible stopping power, minimal rate of fire, and only held two bullets, you have to admit that John Malkovich's metal detector-proof wooden gun in "The Line of Fire" was pretty neat.  I especially liked how he smuggled the bullets in a rabbit's foot key chain.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Flangepart on November 11, 2002, 12:17:31 PM
Pulse rifle is good. Starship troopers mountain clearing gun at end of flick looks promising. Oh...Gatling guns in "Rough Riders", too.
....Humm...why not a Gatling Pulse rifle? Too much of a good thing?



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 11, 2002, 02:38:25 PM
"Winona"



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Gerry on November 11, 2002, 03:26:25 PM
I like the weird rotating 4 barrel gun that Van Damme uses in CYBORG.  Not because it is particularly useful, but I like the look of it.  I always go for those weird make-shift guns in post-apocalypse movies.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Evan3 on November 11, 2002, 04:05:28 PM
First, how could none of you remember the famous line in a great movie. "I need guns, lots of guns" and boy did he get them.

I have to give another holler out to Predator, for both the chain saw gun and the scene in which they blow away the 2 acres of rain forest in a minute. And the Predator himself had some damn cool guns too.


Lastly, that giant "Zeuss Cannon" in the Final Fantasy movie. Wha Boom!


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: raj on November 11, 2002, 04:37:47 PM
I like James Bond's Walther PPK, it's slek, elegant, and goes well with a dinner jacket.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: wheresthecarrot on November 11, 2002, 05:17:01 PM
I would also like to add that you can't go wrong with a classic....Buffalo Bill's Desert Eagle in Silence of the Lambs....you can't go wrong with a big giant pistol.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 11, 2002, 07:53:51 PM
Okay, it may have been a crap movie, but God's (Bill Paxton) sniper rifle from Navy Seals.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Goon on November 11, 2002, 09:04:28 PM
     I like the Big F***ing swiss army THING from "The Fifth Element".  Machine gun, smart bullets, darts, net launcher, flame thrower, ice blaster, missile launcher...  and the little red button.  (or is all that over the top?) Boom.
-------ooo-'U'-ooo------Kilroy was here.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Evan3 on November 11, 2002, 10:28:52 PM
Oh yeah, whatever guns they used in Enemy At the Gates, the Nazi and Soviet sniper rifles, were really cool.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Cool Tester on November 12, 2002, 12:00:09 AM
Not really a movie, but I always liked the Tachyon Wave Motion Gun from Star Blazers.  And I like the laser gun / missile launcher Peter Strauss used in Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone (I still think that title sounds like something you'd see on Skinamax).  I'm partial to a good ol' fashion laser gun myself.  I want one.  I want one real bad.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: wheresthecarrot on November 12, 2002, 01:48:56 AM
Also, anything with a silencer because of the cool noise.......



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: raj on November 12, 2002, 11:07:08 AM
I haven't seen the movie, but offhand I'd bet the German rifle was a Mauser, probably 9 mm.   I've shot an 8 mm mauser, and it'll go through a 4 foot diameter (dried out) log at 25 feet.  Damned nasty & fun.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Flangepart on November 12, 2002, 11:42:48 AM
German Gun: Mauser 98K with  6x or 4x scope. Russian Maisan-Nagant 7.62mm with 6x scope.
....Desert Eagle.Hit with the first shot, cause the follow ups take time , due to recoil recovery(Even with a gas operated system).
.... Hand of god's gun? Barrett .50 cal. Major boom Tube! Same as used in "Robocop".
....Quiggly's 45-110 Sharps. You can get a remake from Navy Arms. Sweet!



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Evan3 on November 12, 2002, 04:03:13 PM
How did anyone not say an uzi. Woo hoo, Uzis are so cool, so effective and so fun and the only weapon for Israelis


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: AndyC on November 12, 2002, 04:05:10 PM
Guess I came in late on this thread. Every single one I could think of has been mentioned - the pulse rifle, Savini's crotch revolver, the Runaway gun, even the Wave Motion Gun.

Oh wait a minute, there is the Death Star's planet-destroying primary weapon. That, and the guitar-case bazooka from Desperado.

I have to admit, while there are some really cool pistols, rifles and other small weapons, the weapons of mass destruction have always appealed to me - the super lasers, the nukes, the N2 mines, etc.

The Wave Motion Gun has been a favourite of mine since I was a kid. I think the big production involved in firing it is part of its appeal.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Redjack on November 12, 2002, 04:07:57 PM
I've always been real fond of the Starburst gun from the Logan's Run movie.  took me a few years, but i was able to track down a kit of the gun and rigged it to make that cool flame starburst.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Cool Tester on November 12, 2002, 04:22:24 PM
Damn, I forgot about Desperado.  Kampa and Quino have the coolest guns ("bring your guitars").  My favorite place to keep a gun would have to be a guitar case.

Hey, look, a guy with a guitar.  I wonder if he'll play for... oh s**t!

Forgot about Arnold too:

Plasma Rifle with 40 watt range
Uzi 9 mm
.45 Long slide with Laser sighting.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: John on November 12, 2002, 05:45:04 PM
>Buzzsaw Gun...**drools**...I wish I had a computer during the prime of Doom II's
>popularity

Nothing stopping you from grabbing a copy now...

>I would also like to add that you can't go wrong with a classic....Buffalo Bill's
>Desert Eagle in Silence of the Lambs....you can't go wrong with a big giant pistol.

My father owns two of them, .50 caliber magnums. He bought a black one when he heard they weren't going to be available anymore, then when he had the chance, he bought a satin finish one, which is the version he really wanted in the first place. He has a permit and carries it with him.

>Also, anything with a silencer because of the cool noise.......

I've been told that silencers don't actually sound like that. Someone told me that they'll muffle the noise enough that people out on the street aren't going to notice it, but not so much that you could shoot someone in one room without the people in the next room hearing it.

My favorite gun would have to be the .44 magnum Automag from Sudden Impact. That version was made special for the movie because the 8" barrel normally didn't have the (I'm not sure this is the proper term for it) 'fluting' on it. That only came on the 6" models. I think I read that Clint got to keep it too.

Next would have to be the portable railguns from Eraser, followed by the Cobra Assault Cannon.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 12, 2002, 06:29:45 PM

Nothing stopping you from grabbing a copy now...

Just found my old DOOM II cd a few weeks back and played it through.  That was a lot of fun,,

I've been told that silencers don't actually sound like that. Someone told me that they'll muffle the noise enough that people out on the street aren't going to notice it, but not so much that you could shoot someone in one room without the people in the next room hearing it.

It'd be cool to have a movie that someone relied on a silencer working how they'd seen in a movie, only to have it work 'right' and totally surprise them.

I'm often curious about how much we 'know' outside of our direct experience is really based on T.V and movies and it's *wrong*.  I think a movie where characters try to do something based on 'common knowledge' cultivated from movies and it turns out reality doesn't work like that would be pretty funny.

Does anyone who's never exploded a hand-grenade or shot a shotgun *really* know what would happen?  I know from movies, but that means I probably don't and  were I to really try the pull the pin on a grenade and throw it based on that, I would probably be very surprised.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: AndyC on November 12, 2002, 07:01:39 PM
Reminds me of the scene in From Dusk 'Til Dawn, when the characters are formulating their plan and offering what confused semi-facts about vampires they know.

Harvey Keitel: "Has anyone here read a real book on vampires, or are we just remembering what we saw in some movie?"

Tom Savini: "Does a Time Life book count?"

That always makes me laugh.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns - Going with tradition.
Post by: Chadzilla on November 12, 2002, 07:06:07 PM
.44 Magnum, all the way...just so I could hold it up and say "Ah-ah, I know what you're thinking.  Did he fire six shots or only five?  Well, considering that this is the .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and it could blow your head CLEAN off, you have to ask yourself a little question...do I feel lucky?  Well, do you?  Punk."

I second John's vote on the .44 Automag in Sudden Impact.  Cool looking pistol.

Lee Van Cleef's pistol with attachable riflestock in For A Few Dollars More.

Josey Wales pistols.

Bert's elephant rifle in Tremors.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 12, 2002, 07:10:48 PM
Bert's elephant rifle in Tremors.

Bert's portable rocket launcher or whatever in Tremors 2.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: wuggles451 on November 12, 2002, 09:51:34 PM
not really a gun, but the jack hammer/wooden stake in "from dusk til dawn"
there ws this shrapnel grenade launcher in "eraser" that blew up and shot drill bits
and how bout THE BOOM STICK its nothing special its all in the name



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Goon on November 12, 2002, 10:39:13 PM
      The experimental rail guns from "Eraser".  Big.  Loud.  Mean.  Not something to screw with.
----ooo-'U'-ooo------Kilroy was here.


Title: Re: Grenades
Post by: Andrew on November 12, 2002, 10:55:13 PM
Fearless Freep said:

"Does anyone who's never exploded a hand-grenade or shot a shotgun *really* know what would happen? I know from movies, but that means I probably don't and were I to really try the pull the pin on a grenade and throw it based on that, I would probably be very surprised."

Grenades are pretty simple.  Flick off the thumb clip, pull the pin, get rid of it.  Granted, I've tossed lots and you get the hang of twisting the pin to remove it easier, but they really are easy to use.  Now, let me tell you, if one goes off a few feet away, even on the other side of a bunker wall, your ears will be ringing all day.  (Stupid kid threw it almost straight up.  I  cuffed him upside his head when it was over.)

Then there are all the other types of grenades, but you get the idea.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: peter johnson on November 13, 2002, 02:17:49 AM
This is a very hard question.  I have to root for the "Bert's Elephant Gun" from "Tremors" as well, especially because of its difficulty in breaking down and loading when a monster worm is eating into your basement -- I mean, this is the movies, people, you don't want something that's too damn efficient, you want something that adds to the story.
Also, the revolver that Eli Wallach builds from parts of trashed/junk guns in "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly", and then immediately uses to rob the man watching him build it.  Priceless . . .
peter johnson


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: BlackAngel on November 13, 2002, 02:24:04 AM
I have two movies in my mind.  Not just for their nicest guns, but also for where they keep them.

Robocop.  This guy has a fully automatic weapon that look more like the traditional handgun than the boxy Uzi.  Bonus, no one can fire on that wepon but the owner (me, hopefully).  And being a cyborg and all, Robo keeps his sidearm INSIDE his left thigh.

Desporado.  Granted the guitar case is good place to put a couple of six shooters, but here's the question: Have you seen in some movies (or in real life) that when the police, bouncers at a club, etc. search you for weapons, they don't really look into the long sleeves of some shirts and jackets/coats?  Picture it:  Banderas jumps on to the bar yells "NOT YET!", and two ballers jump out of his sleeves and he starts blazing the place.  Now how hot is that?

Side note: Speaking of Desporado, I thought that sniper handgun was hot.  But that's cuz it was my first time seeing it.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
And may the Schwarts be with you.


Title: Re: Grenades
Post by: BlackAngel on November 13, 2002, 02:32:13 AM
Hey, Andrew.  Would you belive I thew a granade but forgot to pull the pin?  Kinda funny if you were in the army and in the same cycle in 'bama as me.
------------------------------------------------------------
And may the Schwarts be with you.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 13, 2002, 03:07:32 AM
Grenades are pretty simple.

Well, mechanically yeah, but I have no idea what the effect would be.  How big a boom, how loud?  How long, really?  Watching movies, you get the impression that they are anything from 20 seconds till explosion to explode on contact.  What's the impact of one going off next to you?  I realize my whole context for understanding such things is based on what I've seen in movies, which is probably wrong.  If I were ever in a situation where my life depended on knowing anything like that, all I'd have to draw from one be watching movies, and I'd probably be dead.  Same with a stick of dynamite.

Shotguns, too.  I really don't know what they're effective range is, or what something looks like when shot by one (whether a human or drywall) or...really anything about what shooting one entails as far as the results.

Or an exploding car, for that matter.


So, I thinmk it would be interesting in funny if a movie actually handled all this stuff very accurately, but the characters relied on what they'd seen in movies


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 13, 2002, 03:43:51 AM
The movies get it all wrong. Grenades are meant to spread fragmentated bits of shrapnel, but in movies they send out huge fiery explosions. Also, most grenades have a fuse of about 3 seconds, but in the movies they bound about forever. They are usually used for clearing rooms or trenches.

I have a paramedics handbook with lots of graphic photos of different accidents. Believe me, a shotgun blast to a human body is NASTY.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Flangepart on November 13, 2002, 11:43:04 AM
Saw the Eph. of "Mail Call", were Gunny Ermey showed how the Marines teach "Grenade Etiquett".
....The younger Gunny he interviewed said the fuse is a 4-5 second piece, and to keep it from being thrown back, you bounce it off the walls of the room or bunker, and it stays in motion till boom time.
....The kid threw the grenade almost strait up, Andrew? I'd a cuffed him too!
....Am i the only one who thinks Phasers seem...oh...uncool, for some reason?



Title: Re: Phasers
Post by: AndyC on November 13, 2002, 12:15:24 PM
I wondered about phasers too. I'd have to say the only phasers I thought were really cool were the ones introduced in Wrath of Khan. Both the handheld and ship-mounted varieties were much cooler than any phasers I've seen before or since.



Title: Re: Phasers
Post by: wheresthecarrot on November 13, 2002, 01:35:15 PM
I know it was a stupid movie, but XXX's gun was pretty cool.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: D on November 13, 2002, 01:39:11 PM
Hey, how nobody mentioned Trigun? Now that had some cool guns. Vash's gun/arm looks cool, and Wolfwood's cross/gatling gun...that's just sweet
D


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: AndyC on November 13, 2002, 01:57:02 PM
Geez, why didn't I think of this before. The Man with the Golden Gun. Can't quite remember how it was put together. I believe there was a lighter and a cigarette case and something else. Anybody remember?

Oh, and I used to get a kick out of Megatron's arm-mounted fusion cannon on Transformers. Megatron, himself, transformed into a pretty cool gun, a souped up Walther P-38. Kind of fitting that he had sort of a coal-scuttle helmet. Not sure if that was intentional or not.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: raj on November 13, 2002, 05:58:51 PM
Yeah, I thought about that gun, but it just seemed too ostentatious for me.
The Walther is much nicer.  Of course, I'd love to have a Luger (shown in many a movie)

As for phasers, to me they just seem too perfect, though in Enterprise the crew is a bit wary of the new fangled things.  Nice touch.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 13, 2002, 06:05:45 PM
Phasers are crap. They look like somewhat less threatening stun guns in TNG and DS9, and hot glue guns in the original seres.. And they're pretty inefficient. They fire a long, extended beam. What, the Federation couldn't come up with single-shot or automatic weapons?



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: AndyC on November 13, 2002, 07:42:16 PM
J.R. wrote:
> What, the Federation couldn't come up with
> single-shot or automatic weapons?

Funny that Star Trek showed virtually no projectile weapons in the future, at least not in the hands of any advanced cultures. I suppose it looks more "futuristic" to have the Federation use nothing but ray guns, but there are surely some applications for a weapon that shoots bullets or explosive shells.

There also seems to be some thinking that beam weapons are less violent, or at least less realistically violent, than projectile weapons. I think that's why all the rifles on GI Joe shot laser beams, even if the shooter had a couple of bandoliers full of bullets.

Great comment about the hot glue gun, and I agree that the TNG phasers are hardly threatening, with their ergonomic design, soft beam and wussy sound effect. Looks like it would tickle. I still think the phasers in Wrath of Khan were cool, even if the others weren't



Title: Re: Grenades
Post by: Chadzilla on November 13, 2002, 08:18:27 PM
BlackAngel wrote:
>
> Hey, Andrew.  Would you belive I thew a granade but forgot to
> pull the pin?

Hey, Joey did that in Deep Rising.

"PULL THE PIN?  YOU DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PULLING THE PIN!  WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME TO PULL THE PIN!?!"



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 13, 2002, 09:05:45 PM
Laser beams are always used in kids' action shows, because apparently they're less violent than normal guns. Like in the Spider-Man cartoon from the 90's. Everything's the same but the cops and crooks have super laser guns. It's like it's set in the future but the only thing that has progressed is gun technology. But, as every little boy knows, guns and violence are cool.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Evan3 on November 13, 2002, 11:10:56 PM
How about that, I guess you would call it a pulse gun, in Minority Report that Cruise uses to blast people backwards. That was sweet. Almost as cool as the sick sticks.

And The Preadator had that cool laser guided exploding razor gun, which was cool.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Redcell on November 13, 2002, 11:20:56 PM
The gun used in the movie " The Dogs Of War"


Title: Re: Lasers
Post by: AndyC on November 14, 2002, 12:35:43 AM
When you think about it, a laser really wouldn't be an effective weapon, even if one could be built that was both compact and powerful. I mean, it's going to bounce right off reflective surfaces, and be less effective on light-coloured targets. Rain, snow, smoke and fog will all diminish its effectiveness. All that aside, when it does hit a target, it burns a clean hole right through. In the case of a human target, it would even cauterize the wound. No shock to blow the target apart, no loss of blood. Unless you hit just the right spot, it wouldn't be much good. Or you could put it on a steady beam and move it around, cutting pieces off your foe. Of course, the laser pistols in movies and on TV aren't used that way.

Phasers seem to be a different animal altogether, in that the energy spreads through the target to some degree. Anybody ever hear an explanation of how that was supposed to work?


Title: Re: silencers
Post by: ahab on November 14, 2002, 03:32:54 AM
Silencers do not  make that cool movie noise. One of my friends dads has a gun shop and a license for class 3 items. a silencer will reduce the noise of a gunshot but not entirely. the lower the caliber the less noise generally. small caliber guns will sound like a soft clap and larger caliber will sound like a loud clap. if i am wrong someone correct me as i said i only have a limited experience with suppressors.



Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.


Title: Re: Grenades again
Post by: Andrew on November 14, 2002, 04:57:42 AM
Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> Grenades are pretty simple.
>
> Well, mechanically yeah, but I have no idea what the effect
> would be.  How big a boom, how loud?  How long, really?

By the book, it will kill more than half the people within 5 meters and wound more than half within 15 meters.  Despite the attempts of some nervous young Marines, I have managed not to test that out.  I can say that the fragments will put up to 1 inch deep furrows in cinder block, toss old tires twenty or so feet, and completely destroy a snowman.  We, ah, built snowmen (yes, it was my idea) and then shot grenades at them from M203 launchers once.  Oh, the carnage...
 
> Shotguns, too.  I really don't know what they're effective
> range is, or what something looks like when shot by one
> (whether a human or drywall) or...really anything about what
> shooting one entails as far as the results.

Depends on the shot and the shotgun.  When shooting deer you are aiming near the shoulder.  Hit it with 00 buckshot from say 30 yards and it leaves a couple of holes in the deer.  You can stick a finger into each.



Title: Re: Lasers
Post by: raj on November 14, 2002, 10:52:51 AM
Good points, I suspect that's why the Star Wars storm troopers used white armor.  So why did they get shot so easily?

As for damage, if you get a laser shot to the torso, there probably will be damage to/ failure of a major organ or two.  That'll cause death in a few unpleasant minutes.
At least that's a rationalization I can accept.
AndyC wrote:
>
> When you think about it, a laser really wouldn't be an
> effective weapon, even if one could be built that was both
> compact and powerful. I mean, it's going to bounce right off
> reflective surfaces, and be less effective on light-coloured
> targets. Rain, snow, smoke and fog will all diminish its
> effectiveness. All that aside, when it does hit a target, it
> burns a clean hole right through. In the case of a human
> target, it would even cauterize the wound. No shock to blow
> the target apart, no loss of blood. Unless you hit just the
> right spot, it wouldn't be much good. Or you could put it on
> a steady beam and move it around, cutting pieces off your
> foe. Of course, the laser pistols in movies and on TV aren't
> used that way.
>


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 14, 2002, 10:56:58 AM
I always thought spaceships should be all chromed up, for that reason



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Flangepart on November 14, 2002, 03:22:30 PM
Any energy wepon with high thermal output, like a power rifle (Hammers Slammers< for example), could flash boil the water content of a human/animal body. The fast boiling of tissue to the side of the beam path, and the resaultant shock effect to the system, would put you down NOW!.
....Not a nice image to ponder......



Title: They were not lasers
Post by: Dano on November 14, 2002, 04:15:55 PM
Good points, I suspect that's why the Star Wars storm troopers used white armor. So why did they get shot so easily?
*****  The best way to deflect a laser would be with mirror armor, not white.  Nevertheless, they WERE NOT LASERS, they were "blasters."  At no point did anyone in Star Wars ever call those guns (picture Dr. Evil doing air quotes) "lasers."  Blasters fired visible bolts that you could track from muzzle to target with your eye... a laser would fire a bolt at the speed of light, which would drop the stormtrooper or blow up the X-wing as soon as you squeezed the trigger with no perceptable time between.  We must therefore assume that blasters fired some other form of energy bolt.  Plasma maybe?



Title: Re: They were not lasers
Post by: raj on November 14, 2002, 04:28:49 PM
OK, but whatever they were, they didn't really seem to help the storm troopers all that much.  (And don't get me started on the damned Ewoks)


Title: Re: They were not lasers
Post by: Dano on November 14, 2002, 04:51:50 PM
The stormtroopers main disadvantage was not their vulnerability to the blasters, but rather their incompetence with firing them.  If the Empire had sunk one tenth as much into training as it did into gigantic planet-destroying space stations, they would have nipped quite a few problems in the bud and probably won the day.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: John on November 14, 2002, 08:24:40 PM
>Just found my old DOOM II cd a few weeks back and played it through. That was
>a lot of fun,,

 Any problems running it on modern systems? I have a Doom II CD a friend gave me, but I've never installed it. Figured it would probably play best with a joystick and I can't get mine to work in DOS programs.

>I'm often curious about how much we 'know' outside of our direct experience is
>really based on T.V and movies and it's *wrong*. I think a movie where
>characters try to do something based on 'common knowledge' cultivated from
>movies and it turns out reality doesn't work like that would be pretty funny.

 Several years ago, there was an article in the news about someone who decided to try something he'd seen in a movie; he bashed someone in the head with a baseball bat. He later said that he was surprise that the guy didn't just collapse unconscious like in the movies, but rather fell down, grasped his bleeding head and started begging for mercy.

>Grenades are pretty simple. Flick off the thumb clip, pull the pin, get rid of it.

A quote I read or heard somewhere comes to mind; "After you pull the pin, Mr. Hand Grenade is no longer your friend."

>The movies get it all wrong. Grenades are meant to spread fragmentated bits of
>shrapnel,

I'm sure Andrew will correct me if I have this wrong, but it's my understanding that there are 'normal' grenades, which are the small, round smooth ones you see in most modern movies and fragmentation grenades, which are the 'pineapple' style shown in most WWII movies. I once read that the reason it was covered with little squares is so that those pieces would be blown apart by the blast and become shrapnel.

>Phasers seem to be a different animal altogether, in that the energy spreads
>through the target to some degree. Anybody ever hear an explanation of how
>that was supposed to work?

No, but I once had a catalog that claimed to have plans to build one. It claimed it would work just like it did in Star Trek and make the target vanish.

>The stormtroopers main disadvantage was not their vulnerability to the blasters,
>but rather their incompetence with firing them. If the Empire had sunk one tenth as
>much into training as it did into gigantic planet-destroying space stations, they
>would have nipped quite a few problems in the bud and probably won the day.

Not sure how accurate a game's information can be considered, but in Jedi Knight, Dark Forces II, the Stormtrooper rifle never hits where it's aimed. Considering the game was created by Lucasarts and Lucas seems to take pains to make their Star Wars games as accurate as possible, maybe this means that the reason they could never hit anything was because their weapons sucked.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 14, 2002, 08:53:12 PM
Several years ago, there was an article in the news about someone who decided to try something he'd seen in a movie; he bashed someone in the head with a baseball bat. He later said that he was surprise that the guy didn't just collapse unconscious like in the movies, but rather fell down, grasped his bleeding head and started begging for mercy.

That's always intrigued me about hits with bats and bat-like objects.  I'm fairly certain there would be an extremely fine line between "bloody screaming mess" and "Dead", not the typical "Thwak, thump...he's down but he'll wake up with a headache" you often see



Title: Re: Grenades
Post by: Andrew on November 14, 2002, 09:15:15 PM
"I'm sure Andrew will correct me if I have this wrong, but it's my understanding that there are 'normal' grenades, which are the small, round smooth ones you see in most modern movies and fragmentation grenades, which are the 'pineapple' style shown in most WWII movies. I once read that the reason it was covered with little squares is so that those pieces would be blown apart by the blast and become shrapnel."

Modern fragmentation grenades are the M67 type, which are the round, smooth ones you describe.  Basically, by my experience, modern grenades (for throwing) come in two shapes:  roundish and a canister (sort of like a soda can).

Found a website with a quick bit on it:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m67.htm



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 14, 2002, 10:39:58 PM
That is one of the stupidest cliches I see in almost every other movie: One light knock to the bean and you're out cold. If human beings were really that fragile we would have become extinct a long time ago.

The troopers in Star Wars have a pretty inconsistant record. In Episode IV Obi Wan says the Jawas must have been killed by stormtroopers because everything was so precise. But whenever they're firing at the rebels they miss by a mile. Yet the clone troopers in Eisode II are pretty bad-ass.  And the Imperial blaster is innacurate in all the Jedi Knight games, including the outstanding Jedi Outcast. There's a great part in that game where you're sneaking around and you can hear the stormtrooper's conversations, and after recieving an order one guy says something like: "Stupid know-it-all. You try keeping an eye on things through this damn helmet!".

To qute Return Of The Living Dead- "It worked in the movie!"



Title: Re: Coolest Guns!
Post by: Flangepart on November 15, 2002, 03:27:18 PM
Ohhh. Me like. Okey, everybody bookmark the link Andrew gave us. It will come in handy for future refrence.
....Regards Phasers: The original S T Spaceflight cronology defines a Phaser as a cross between a Particle Cannon, and a Laser. Combines the tight cutting ability of the laser, and the blast effect of the Particle bolt. Think "Armor Piercing high explosive" projectile.
....Am i the only one who sees hypocracy in the kid show substitution of lasers for regular guns? The Actress who played the princess in Star Wars pt 1 and 2, said something somewere about being pro-gun control. If she'd made the mistake , when called on the carpet for it by moi, and said maby" Yes, but those were just movie props", i'd have to say, "You diden't know they used real guns for the props?"
....Point is, the idea is the important thing. Laser guns don't exist? Yeah...so? You still shoot someone, and the fact its not a bullet, but energy in its purest state, does not remove the effect. A character gets blasted. Principle remains the same.
....Get used to it, Natalie. Its just more Hollywood Hypocracy.
....BTW, notice how well the M1928 .45 thompson smg deals with Borg? Picard should have ordered some for the big E's arsenal.
...."Set for stun!"....yeah, set for stun my galaxy spanning arse! Don't get me started on "Set for stun"..........



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 15, 2002, 03:39:55 PM
....Get used to it, Natalie. Its just more Hollywood Hypocracy.

As a musician I've played a lot of songs that espouse opinions, ideologies, and lifestyles I don't neccessarily agree with.  It's just a gig, doesn't mean I support what the singer is singing; I'm just getting paid to fill a role and move on.

Actors just play roles.  A pro gun-control actor who plays the role of someone who shots a lot of people with a gun is just playing a role.  That's not him or her; it's not his or her personaility or words, why would it be his or her ideology in the head of the character.  I don't have a problem with them playing a part in a movie that has them shooting people up, and then coming out with a con-control stance.  If they can reconcile in their own lives the difference between their beliefs and the actions of the characters they play, that's fine with me.



Title: Re: Lucas
Post by: ahab on November 15, 2002, 03:49:55 PM
I wonder if George Lucas ever put this much thought into the physics of his Star Wars universe?



Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart.


Title: Re: Examples
Post by: Chadzilla on November 15, 2002, 04:07:02 PM
Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> Actors just play roles.  A pro gun-control actor who plays
> the role of someone who shots a lot of people with a gun is
> just playing a role.  That's not him or her; it's not his or
> her personaility or words, why would it be his or her
> ideology in the head of the character.  I don't have a
> problem with them playing a part in a movie that has them
> shooting people up, and then coming out with a con-control
> stance.  If they can reconcile in their own lives the
> difference between their beliefs and the actions of the
> characters they play, that's fine with me.
>

Danny Glover, who is an avowed pacifist, has starred in such violence saturated movies as Lethal Weapon 1 -4 and the blood soaked Predator 2.  Hypocrite?  Naw, working actor.  Then again, there are some who confuse fantasy and reality.

Max Von Sydow, an atheist, played the devout Father Merrin in The Exorcist.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Fearless Freep on November 15, 2002, 04:13:19 PM
I wonder if George Lucas ever put this much thought into the physics of his Star Wars universe?

Nope, because Star Wars is not, nor was it intended to be, "Science-Fiction".  It's just a fantasy story and things like blasters and hyperspace and such are just devices for moving a story along.  They really don't matter much in their own right, and probably shouldn't be dwelled on.

Like the story of the Frog Prince, nobody really worries about Conservation of Matter. It is was it is and you accept the devices at face value because they really don't matter to the story.

If you spend too much time dwelling on it, you probably just get really annoyed at what 'wouldn't work'.

Teleporters in the old "Star Trek" just sort existed and not a lot of thought went into them; you take them as they are and move on.  The real problem for the STar Trek series was when non-sensical technology (like transportes and the holodeck) became important, became the focus and the plot of two many stories.  Then the non-sensicalness of the situation became painfully obvious.

 Blasters don't have to work or be real or really do anything, as long as you don't rely on them to much for your story



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: BlackAngel on November 15, 2002, 09:28:57 PM
I can't remember the name of the movie, it was in either the 70's or 80's but it was a cute gangster movie where kids were playing actual gangsters of the 1920's.  The kids were also using old school tommy guns, but instead of bullets, it shot out marshmellows or something like that.  What was that movie?


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: J.R. on November 16, 2002, 04:11:40 AM
<>

Bugsy Malone with Scott Baio and Jodie Foster, if memory serves. The guns shot whole cream pies.



Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: John on November 16, 2002, 07:13:53 AM
>Modern fragmentation grenades are the M67 type,

Thanks for the info and the link.

>BTW, notice how well the M1928 .45 thompson smg deals with Borg? Picard
>should have ordered some for the big E's arsenal.

I thought the same thing. Of course it really doesn't make sense that it worked. Why would 'shields' only be effective against energy weapons? In the brig, they use force fields that can keep people in the cells (in other words, they can block physical matter), so why wouldn't the Borg design their shields that way. Supposedly they adapt to whatever is thrown at them and you have to figure that at least a few of the races they've encountered have been using projectile weapons. So they should have had shields that would block both energy and matter.

>Actors just play roles. A pro gun-control actor who plays the role of someone
>who shots a lot of people with a gun is just playing a role.

Michael Gross, AKA Bert in the Tremors movies is against guns in real life.


Title: Re: Coolest Guns
Post by: Brother Ragnarok on November 16, 2002, 07:28:10 AM
Harley Stone's rotary-shotgun from Split Second, one of my favorite movies, and a damn fine gun.  The shoulder-mounted nuke-launchers in Starship Troopers were pretty cool, too.  And by Cthulhu, the bazookoids from Red Dwarf and any gun ever used in Doctor Who, too.  Who needs bullets when your guns have little flashy lights?