Badmovies.org Forum

Eminem’s “8 Mile” Success Is Bologny
by Tommy Lee

It doesn’t surprise me that Eminem’s “8 Mile” debut has topped the box office — Eminem is a White guy. Anytime mainstream America can find someone with at least a tad bit of talent similar to another race, they put that person on a pedestal. Another good example is the comparison between Brandy and Britney. As talented as Brandy is and was, she was never accepted by a bias mainstream. Whereas Britney, who’s main talent is based on her sex appeal, has been hoisted into national stardom.

It also doesn’t surprise me that “8 Mile” is a glamourized, egotistical version of Eminem’s life — Everything else in Em’s life is about him. Have you guys ever listened to his lyrics, they’re all about how great he is... truly an ego-maniac. The movie is simply an ego boost for Caucasians who have dreamed about rapping since hearing RunDMC. In all honesty, Em represents the Eurocentric view of minorities — if you can act and pretend to be one of them, maybe you are.

The predictable theme behind “8 Mile” is not as convincing as it would seem. A White person has a much, much better chance of breaking it in than any other race. Consider that every year tousands of Black rappers, all more talented than Eminem, try to sign a record deal but fail because there are simply TOO MANY of them. Also, various films about minorities trying to break it in have been made, but few have been real successful: La Bamba, Dragon: the Bruce Lee Story, Salina, Finding Forester. etc... All of these movies reflect more hardship and emotion than “8 Mile,” but mainstream America would rather see a White face on screen.

In the 30’s Pearl Buck screen wrote “The Good Earth,” a movie about Chinese farmers. Unfortunately, if you see the movie, the central roles depict only Caucasians  made-up to look Asian.

Yes, white people are more likely to listen to white musicians and go see movies starring white people. And black people are more likely to listen to black musicians and see movies starring black people. What's your point?

Obviously, you've missed it because that's not what I said.

Surprised you didn't mention Elvis, too.

If there weren't dozens and dozens of black rappers making millions and millions of dollars and living like pharoahs, I think you'd have a stronger point.  That said, I'm not about to launch any kind of defense of Eminem.  Basically if someone finds reason to criticize that idiot, I'll buy it.

I'm not going to say that white people shouldn't be rappers or black people shouldn't be rock stars, but i do think it's safe to say that rap is generally considered "black" music whereas rock'n'roll is considered "white" music.

The interesting thing to look at is how supportive society is of white people who want to be rappers and R&B artists.  There are many, and all of them are very sucessful, partly due to their "whiteness."  However, society does not hold that same support for black people trying to get into "white music."  How many black Rock'n'Roll artists are there?  Hendrix, Kravitz, who else?

Interesting point about whites playing East Asians.  Did you know that no East Asian actor ever played the character of Charlie Chan?  Even in a 70s comedy called "Murder By Death" the role was played by Peter Sellers.

wheresthecarrot wrote: The interesting thing to look at is how supportive society is of white people who want to be rappers and R&B artists. There are many, and all of them are very sucessful, partly due to their "whiteness." However, society does not hold that same support for black people trying to get into "white music." How many black Rock'n'Roll artists are there? Hendrix, Kravitz, who else?
*****  That's an interesting point, but you make a pretty big assumption, wheresthecarrot.  Basically you are assuming that there is an equal proportion of blacks trying to break into white mainstream as there are whites trying to break into rap.  This may or may not be the case, but it shouldn't simply be assumed.  As for black artists in white mainstream, you can add Tracey Chapman, the guy from Hootie & the Blowfish, Living Color, Clarence Clemens in the E Street Band.  Just off the top of my head I tripled your list.  And the "many" white rappers I can think of include Beastie Boys, House of Pain, and Eminem.  Granted, I really don't follow any music very closely, but I'm sure there's lots of names to be added to both groups.

I guess there's Vanilla Ice - if you're counting one-hit-wonders... but then you'd have to add Milli Vanilli to the blacks-in-mainstream list...  (shudders).

I don't think it matters whether a white person is a rapper or not, at the wasn't the original intention.

I think the meaning is that white audiences will watch/listen to a white rapper and not a black rapper.  The music isn't different, but there is a racial quality to how popular one gets based on ability to get an audience and that white performers can get a bigger audience doing the exact same schtick as black performers, maybe not even as good, simply because they are white.

Ditto Man.

Ice-T is a BIG metal head and his Body Count group was a labor of love, but it just didn't fly with the rock crowd.  Or so I have been told.

What is really weird is people putting the word rap and talent in the same sentence.

Jesus, everything has to boil down to race with all of you people, doesn't it?

Music is probably one of the LEAST racist forms of entertainment. Why? Because the majority of the successes have done so on their own accord. Want some black stars? Chuck Berry, Tina Turner, MICHAEL JACKSON, Boyz II Men, TUPAC SHAKUR, DR. DRE, RUN-DMC, JIMI HENDRIX...

There's a reason some bands/artists sell more albums than others. It's called "marketability." Eminem's raps are more marketable than most other rappers NOT because he's white (otherwise, wouldn't we see Bubba Sparxxx topping the charts along with the criminally underrated Twiztid and Insane Clown Posse?), but simply because his lyrics touch-base with a good sized portion of the population.

If 8-Mile had starred DMX instead of Eminem, this argument wouldn't have happened, and the movie would have been only a SLIGHT BIT LESS POPULAR, simply because Eminem is more popular than DMX.

Fearless Freep wrote:
>
> I don't think it matters whether a white person is a rapper
> or not, at the wasn't the original intention.
>
> I think the meaning is that white audiences will watch/listen
> to a white rapper and not a black rapper.  The music isn't
> different, but there is a racial quality to how popular one
> gets based on ability to get an audience and that white
> performers can get a bigger audience doing the exact same
> schtick as black performers, maybe not even as good, simply
> because they are white.

Probably true for the majority, although the "early adopters" among whites necessarily listen to the black rappers.  And I think this is becoming less true as time goes by,

Whenever I go to a blues show, I'm always struck by how white the audience is, and how black the musicians are (and unfortunately old-- not many younger blues musicians who happen to be black)

I think that generally the most talented transcend racial lines.  It is the mediocre ones that have trouble. (IMO)

Music is probably one of the LEAST racist forms of entertainment

Not really.  What's being described here with Eminem and rap is what happened back in the early days of jazz.  Music played by black musicians  was only played in 'colored' clubs and on 'colored labels'.  In took some white musicians who listened to and adapted jazz music to get white audiences to listen to jazz.  It was a big controversey when Benny Goodmen stepped on stage with a black vibraphone player and pianist.

It's not so bad now, but there used to huge racial segregation in music.  Ironically, to bridge that required whuite musicians playing balck music for white audiences

The music industry is completely inspeperable from race, as of present day.  That's why there are entire doccumentaries devoted to how people like Eminem, Kid Rock, and the Beastie boyz made names for themselves despite huge amounts of critisism from people who weren't convinced white people could rap.  If you don't belive me, watch VH-1 for a week.  I guarante you one of these issues will be discussed.  Also, if race wasn't an issue in music, the "walk this way" video Aerosmith did with run DMC wouldn't have been called such things as "monumental" "controversial" and a "milestone in the bridge between musical and racial cultures."

Also, it doesn't just come down to race for me, or anyone else I'm sure, but that is what happens to be the topic of the discussion of the post, so that would be a good indicator as to why we are all discussing it.

to get back on topic, i would credit the movie's sucess with a lot of people turning out simply to see if Mathers can act.  when it comes to the 3 dollar movie theater, that's while i'll go see it, though I'm pretty sure he can't.

From what little I've heard in the reviews, he can at least play himself, unlike Mariah Carey.

Well, it had a big enough opening weekend, but now that the curious have checked out the notorious homophobic thug rapper, the second weekend (which is new viewers plus repeat business) will show if the thing has any legs.

I'm giving it a pass, I find the bloke offensive.

If you don't belive me, watch VH-1 for a week.
*****  Whoa!!  Okay, okay, let's not get nasty.  I believe you, I believe you!
: )

It's not so bad now, but there used to huge racial segregation in music. Ironically, to bridge that required whuite musicians playing balck music for white audiences
*****  It's not so bad now...  exactly my point.  I just don't see black rappers starving and having their music stolen by white rappers for a white audience.  The Beastie Boyz were a hit because they took the rap style and used it to address issues that were important to suburban middle class kids, like fighting for your right to party.  Will Smith took a page out of their book and found broad white acceptance (leading to a successful film career) by rapping about how parents just don't understand.  It's rap for the non-urban audience.

Then that stuff was usurped by gangsta rappers rapping about being dangerous and living risky lives - something that fascinated suburban kids who's biggest real-life brush with danger may have come during a crossing guard strike.   M&M is just getting in on that action.

 when Benny Goodmen stepped on stage with a black vibraphone player and pianist
Benny Goodman was Jewish too, sounds like the minorities sticks together.

Anyways, to the question at hand. In Eminem's first two CDs, he mostly just made fun lyrics with few points, and if anything, he is not self glorifying, but rather he is very self depricating. However, his third CD is the reason he has reached such heights. His race is not so much a feature as his lyrics are. Look at the number two best selling rap album, by the artist Nelly. Nelly on the other hand, embodies the selfish, conceited and basically emotionless with his hit songs being "Hot in Here" and "I am Number One"

On the other hand, Eminem pushes the edge of what has been said. He adresses things such as social change, race, and wehy rappers grow up to be what they are and how rap can inspire a child to succeed. He says that if anything, he had to struggle harder than anyone to get where he is, and points out this is not a new phenomenon, Elvis sang black music, Brian Setzer sings black music, and even boy bands like N'Sync really are singing originally black music, yet nobody makes it such an issue.

So, Eminem is so famous, first because he tells things how it is and also, because he has more lyrical talent than anybody else.

Also, look at minorities who have succeeded to superstardom. Santanna is one very notable example. You have the emerging feamale singer Nelly Furtado. Youhave Dr. Dre, who proved that blacks can be a huge business force in music. You also have bands like Linkin Park that have white, Hispanic and Asian members. It is not race that can determine your fame, but your talent, which Eminem has in abundance over any other rapper. If Eminem were doing that stupid Steven Segal movie, instead of DMX, do you think the box office would be as big??? Also, look who are the biggest three musician/actors ever, Prince, Jennifer Lopez, and now Eminem. Two minorities and one white. If Madonna's continual movie flops cant convince you these industries are color blind, than what will

Elvis sang black music
*****  Ray Charles himself came out and said that rock and roll was neither black nor white, but both.  It was basically the Celtic-based music of southern whites with the added synchopated rhythm of African music.  Like most of the rest of our culture, Rock&Roll is a hybrid of various cultures and something that you never saw in either Europe or Africa until it came from here.

Evan3 wrote:
>
> On the other hand, Eminem pushes the edge of what has been
> said. He adresses things such as social change, race, and
> wehy rappers grow up to be what they are and how rap can
> inspire a child to succeed.

true, true.  also, lets not forget all those times he raps about killing his wife and getting his kid to help push her body in the water.....simply outstanding in every way.

: )

Sorry, I've had a rough day.....I wouldn't wish VH-1 on anyone under normal circumstances........

Freep, key words being "used to be."

Only closet (or open) racists would not listen to a band because its members aren't white, black, or whatever race the listener happens to be.

wheresthecarrot wrote:
>
> true, true.  also, lets not forget all those times he raps
> about killing his wife and getting his kid to help push her
> body in the water.....simply outstanding in every way.


I never said he wasnt in need of mental help.

But lets not forget that he has only done that once and despite his image, is a good father and rapped with the flagrantly gay Elton John.

And is it ok that black rappers often rap about killing police and raping hos (neither of witch Eminem has done)

Yeah, because heaven forbid a lyricist write a song about hating his wife while still loving his daughter...**rolls eyes**

Some people need to look DEEPER into lyrics, methinks...

As for minorities that have gained success, I'd also like to add possibly THE most well-known thrash metal band of all-time, and among the top 5 greatest metal bands ever, SLAYER. Who's a minority? Tom Araya. Got that? Araya. He's Hispanic. Hence why I find it hilarious to see a whole bunch of white supremacists that wear swastikas also wearing Slayer shirts, with Slayer tattoos, and Slayer posters on their walls.

Sure, you can hate your wife, and you can sing about it, but publishing a song in which you are screaming at your kid's mother while she's screaming hysterically may have some deeper meaning, however I still don't think it's a very responsible thing to do as a father.  My parents hate each other, but they love me.  If one of them had decided to publish a song about killing the other, and also included me in that song, I would have a really hard time with that.

On a side note:  Slayer rules!  And yes, I laugh at the swastika people as well.  It makes you wonder if:

A) They've never bothered to read an interview with any of the band members, therefore larning about the message behind the lyrics or

B)  They are in severe denial.

Another brand much like this is Hatebreed, who draw a decent crowd of Swastika people, but really, don't want to purify the human race much

for the record, I am a white rapper. I don't like Eminem very much but I will say he has talent and Rap is a talent, it's not easy at all. You making that comment was a tad rude. I hate most rap music but I find rap something that I'm good at. For u to say that Rap has no talent then I'd say u have no musical background.

For the record, only good thing about Eminem was he killed the theory that all White Rappers = Vanilla Ice

Just wondering if anybody has an opinion on Eminem in general. I haven't seen 8 MILE yet and I am interested, however due to the hype I am sort of conflicted to see it. Usually, hype always ruins it for me.

I personally don't know what to think about Eminem. When looking at him he does come across as an arrogent jerk and quite pushy. However his music is "an aquired taste" for those who are curious. Eminem might not be for everybody, but some people seem to like him and his music.

But then, hearing about Eminem's success is better than hearing about big-ass J Lo and Ben Affleck getting married. I'll bet that marrage will last for about 3 years. Either way, what's the point?

Some of his stuff isn't that bad....some of it is complete crap.. in general, I think he's incredibly rude, or a poser, or both.  I'm not a big fan of rude people or posers so I tend to stay away from him.  Definately not the least talented person out there....but if I'm listening to rap, I tend to prefer ICP and stuff like that.

I think he's a complete @$$.

Don't forget to add Fishbone, Sevendust's LaJohn Witherspoon, and Chuck Moseley, the original vocalist from Faith No More to your "blacks in the white mainstream" list, Dano.

There's only two things in life, monsters and hot chicks.
 -- Rob Zombie

Just wondering if anybody has an opinion on Eminem in general.
*****  M&M's no different from any other market-savvy pop star when you get down to the bare bones.  He's gone out there and thrown out some lyrics that were obviously calculated to outrage America's touchy over-protective parents (that's about 80% of parents), knowing full well that being labelled a bad seed in the press and by religious and political groups is the surest way to sell lots and lots of records to teenagers.  He's also full of the very same insincere rebelliousness you've seen in music since the later Beatles stuff.  A clear sign of that was when he stood together with Brittney Spears and whined about people downloading his music on the internet.  The message: "beat a fag, kill your mom, but just make sure you show respect for intellectual property rights."  Huh??  The copyright lawyers are M&Ms real old school homies.

In terms of his music, I'll admit that he throws some catchy tunes together, which make his act all that much more attractive to teenagers.  When his star fizzles, he'll have a future writing advertising jingles.

But in the end, he's just a guy out there making money in a distasteful, unrespectable way... but not the MOST distasteful, unrespectable way.  I mean it's not like he's putting stuff in people's water or evicting dirt poor immigrants to build luxury apartments.  He's just making money off hype - there's nothing new or unique about it.

............

Everyone in rap has to have an Ego or they will fail.  you can have an Ego no matter what race you are.  If Slim shady has the Dr's blessing to rap, then the race card can be thrown away. cause peace is the way to go
                                                                                                 Peace
                                                                                                           SteveO

Honestly, I think that Eminem has a gift with words and really knows the right emotions to touch. He can make you angry, disgusted, laugh or think as evidenced by the number of different emotions we see in this thread.

If nothing else he seems to be straighter (in not being as violent or taking drugs in real life) than most other rappers, like Snoop Dog. Also, I honestly think that  he has more talent and writes better more insightful lyrics than other rappers out there.

If nothing else you have to respect people like Eminem, Britney Spears and Dr. Dre for their incredible business savvy and ability to modl the business. Even if you dont like their music, these people have become pop culture icons and people always like to talk about them, good or bad, once again evidenced by the huge amounts of discussion about Eminem, who has never even been in a B movie, on a site like this. Hate him or love him, you still notice him and that makes money.

Dont forget about rage against the machine