Badmovies.org Forum

Just got "The untold story" and "Story of Ricky" on DVD, and I must confess that asian film makers seem to exist on a different planet than the rest of us. "Ricky" was just campy and funny (definately a five-slime movie!) but "Story..." was really twisted (although in it's way, also a good movie). I recall a post I made a while back commenting that "Assault on Precinct 13" was the only movie I ever saw where they kill off a kid, but "Story..." sets a new precedent, the killer knocks off about four of them with a meat-cleaver...
  So, I would like suggestions for further pieces of live action asian cinema that are watchable (I already own "Ringu" and "Battle Royale", but that's about it). Is "Audition" any good?

AUDITION takes a long while to get going, but the payoff is truly disturbing.

Look out for ICHI THE KILLER, a very disturbing film by Takashi Miike who directed AUDITION, and features some a mix of extremely sadistic scenes (nipple slicing, a man sawing off his own tongue), and OTT gore scenes which look like something out of STORY OF RICKY (man gets sliced in half, people have jugulars cut and gallons of blood spurts out).

so..you liked the movies and yet you insinuating something is wrong with the filmakers? Someone is an ingrate

MoonShadow wrote:

 I
> recall a post I made a while back commenting that "Assault on
> Precinct 13" was the only movie I ever saw where they kill off
> a kid,

You know, Stephen King is not at all afraid to kill off kids, but the directors who make his books into movies are.

""Assault on Precinct 13" was the only movie I ever saw where they kill off a kid"

I suggest seeing Mimic.  They kill off kids in quite a few movies, if you look around.  They seem to do it more in Asian cinema though, if you see enough of their movies.  BTW, while there are quite a few good Japanese action movies (I suggest Versus, Andrew should review that one, zombie/yakuza/gunfights/samurai epic), the real masters are Chinese.  

One movie in particular with a kid being killed I never forgot was Flaming Brothers.  Well, I guess I do own it...  That one has some great gunfights, especially the climax.  But one kid is executed in such an unflinching manner, and it was so unneccasary that I remembered it.

That also has one of my favorite moments where Chinese cultural values clashed with American.  One character kills another and says, I quote, "No one would believe anyone would kill their brother-in-law!  HAHAHHAA!"

Just remember though, what do they think of us - we're the ones who make movies like From Justin To Kelly or the Real Cancun.  Yeesh, who is the person who's REALLY f***ed up?

Audition rocks.  And if you want something REALLY over the top, try Biozombie on for size.  Make sure you get it dubbed, the dub is what makes the movie.  What are YOOOOOU DOOING!?!?

Brother R

Jim Hepler is right. They do kill off kids in quite a few movies. Indeed, one can see kids killed in film clips at this web site for "Cemetery Man," "Fright Show," and "Halloween III." There also use to be a film clip showing the killing of the boy scout in "Lair of the White Worm," but, that film clip has been deleted from the review. Some other films reviewed at this web site, which feature the killing of kids, are "The Beastmaster," "Jack Frost," and "Wizards," among others.
What makes the killing of the girl in "Assault on Precinct 13," so memorable, is the buildup, then the surprise.

It's been awhile since I've seen it but isn't the girl who gets killed played by Kim Richards of Escape from Witch Mountain and Return to Witch Mountain?

BTW, I saw Miike's THE HAPPINESS OF THE KATAKURIS in the theater last year and it was one of the craziest things I've ever seen....not crazy violent, but just off the wall.

AUDITION is excellent. It's a very well done character study with some disturbing moments. Definitely a slower pace than BATTLE ROYALE, but, overall, a better movie than BATTLE ROYALE. (Don't get me wrong, BATTLE ROYALE is excellent. I just think that AUDITION is a little better).

Try Kyua (English title:  The Cure).  1997, directed by Kiyoshi Kurosawa, who also wrote.  I loved it - it had a nice, Hitchcockian feel to it, and the ending was very cool.  It actually wasn't that grusome (as I recall, it's been a while since I last saw it), and no kids were harmed in the making of this picture, but it WAS a very intelligent film, with good pacing throughout.

For more fun, try A Chinese Ghost Story.  It's not really scary, but it is funny, and the Rapping Monk scene is not to be missed.

Make sure, on both, that you watch the Subtitled versions - the dubs don't do either movie justice.

Just my opinoin, I could be wrong...

Well, I don't know what this thread has to do with Asian people in general — the topic seems very ignorant.

That said, a lot of hard-core movies come from oversea because there's less censorship.  And that's going to provoke a lot of disturbing ideas.  

Many of these directors are simply trying to cash in other their gore.  As you may or may not know, movies in China and Japan are made like fast food... You have to be quick, yet sastisfying to some degree.  Therefore, you can't develop a good story line, but if you add some gore, it sells...  But yeah, those movies are pretty off the wall.

> Well, I don't know what this thread has to do with Asian people
> in general — the topic seems very ignorant.

Good point...

> Many of these directors are simply trying to cash in other
> their gore.  As you may or may not know, movies in China and
> Japan are made like fast food... You have to be quick, yet
> sastisfying to some degree.  Therefore, you can't develop a
> good story line, but if you add some gore, it sells...  But
> yeah, those movies are pretty off the wall.

WTF are you talking about?  Most Japanese films are often long and obtuse, with (to western eyes) painfully slow pacing and overcharacterization (I site A Very Taxing Woman 1 and 2 as examples).  Chinese films are often the same way.  They might be cashing in on the gore, but comparing asian cinema to fast food is enormously unfair, and (from where I'm sitting) completely inaccurate.

Saw ANOTHER HEAVEN not long ago and I recommend that one too.  I have THE CURE on tape somewhere around here but can't find it.  THE ISLE was on Sundance last night and I will probably watch it later today.   A lot of these movies have played on the Sundance Channel within the last year.  

Then, of course, there's the ALL NIGHT LONG series which is basically an excuse to show people abusing and degrading each other.  It's basically like the infamous GUINEA PIG series, but with slightly more plot and character.

WTF are you talking about...  I'm talking about the movie-making process...  In the East, movies are made in half the time it takes to make a movie here.  Directors are constantly under the gun to produce films on a monthly basis...  Take a class in Eastern Cinematography...

Great Sage wrote:

> WTF are you talking about...  I'm talking about the
> movie-making process...  In the East, movies are made in half
> the time it takes to make a movie here.  Directors are
> constantly under the gun to produce films on a monthly basis...
>  Take a class in Eastern Cinematography...


You know, being under pressure does not mean bad movie making.  Targets was shot in a few days with a shoestring budget, and it is one of Boris Karloff's best movies, with excellent characterization, good pacing, and an excellent sense of suspence.

Besides, I'm talking about practical movie watching.  The real world teaches more than the class room.  

To site another example, Ringu had much better and more characterization than The Ring.

And please calm down, I didn't mean to offend.  I might have done so, but it was not my intent.

I saw Another Heaven just a few nights ago and that damn movie is WAAAAY too long.  Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea.  I've had a rash of movies lately that have great ideas with crap execution.  The body-hopping "Hidden"-style killer is really cool, the dissolving brain thing is really cool, but good lord that thing just would not end.
I saw Despiser the same night.  Good idea, needed a bigger budget.  All that horrible video game CGI.  Woof.

Brother R

Grumpy Guy wrote:
> You know, being under pressure does not mean bad movie making.
> Targets was shot in a few days with a shoestring budget, and it
> is one of Boris Karloff's best movies, with excellent
> characterization, good pacing, and an excellent sense of
> suspence.

Yes, that's true in some instances, but what you also get are movies could have been so much better with time.  A lot of Eastern Directors are making movies that are not of their choice... Take Ang Lee, or Even Jackie Chan who directs most of his new movies.  Their Chinese movies started out with little, or no plot lines in China.  People met and they fought...  Now, with connections to the United States, both, Ang Lee more so, appreciate the quality that comes with proper time and story telling..

>
> Besides, I'm talking about practical movie watching.  The real
> world teaches more than the class room.  

Yes, that's true... But the classroom provides a foundation from with the real world revolves.
>
> To site another example, Ringu had much better and more
> characterization than The Ring.

The Ring was made for a quick buck, nothing more.  It's not an original story and therefore lacks the integrity.

>
> And please calm down, I didn't mean to offend.  I might have
> done so, but it was not my intent.

No harm done here... You always have constructive responses and I respect that...
>
>

Come on, I don't see any intent to to "dis" anyone in title of thread.

My wife is asian and my 19 month son is half, my wife agrees that most asian films are inferior to most western ones, with exceptions (Eat Drink, Man Woman [her choice] 7 Samurai and Black Rain [my choice]). By the way Andrew congrats on the kid, nothing personal but I think mine's better, personal opinion of course!  :-)

If ever there was a forum where we shouldn't be overly PC, I would think this is it. How's this for a rule of thumb? Anyone intentionally and obviously being an Ass, smoke em, otherwise give them the benefit of the doubt!

Wadda ya think? Andrew?

By the way I though Rickey was great camp; can you actually have a B matial arts movie? Isnt that a double entrande?

Rob

True to that Rob... I have a few Asian friends who totally agree with the insane nature of Asian films...  They're pretty cool about most things.

Great Sage wrote:
> >
> > To site another example, Ringu had much better and more
> > characterization than The Ring.
>
> The Ring was made for a quick buck, nothing more.  It's not an
> original story and therefore lacks the integrity.
>
> >


Oh come on, who the heck are you trying to fool. How can you say the Ring has no integrity. First it sdoesnt drag as much as Ringu does and secondly has an almost completely different style than Ringu.

Also, just because you and one other find The Ring inferior does not make it so, about a month ago we had a post on this board and I believe it was split 50/50 on who liked which.

Also, The Ring has integrity. Most crap out there now IS out to make a few bucks, but The Ring reverted to classic methods of film making. It didnt rely on jumping scares, left most of the things up to imagination, had good CGI and was interesting. It also mixed in subliminal hints and such in the fashion of the Exorcist.

In addition, The Ring, unlike most American movies is not afraid to give credit where it is due. The same movie studio put Ringu on DVD and even packaged it with the Ring so that people could have both experiences. It gives its predecessor due, unlike most movies such as House of 1,000 Corpses and Urban Legends and stuff.  

If you are looking for a bad movie with no integrity I think you should rent Darkness Falls, what a piece of crap with no shame,

The Ring was made for a quick buck, nothing more. It's not an original story and therefore lacks the integrity.

Robert Heinlein, writer of The Puppetmasters and Starship Troopers  once stated that there are only three stories: Boy Meets Girl, the Little Taylor, and The Man Who Learns Better.*  While this is a little too simplistic for my taste, what he says is essesially true.

There are no original stories any more.  Original ways of handling them, maybe, but no new stories.
________________________
*I seem to think he added a fourth one later on in life, but I can't think of what it was.
________________________

> If ever there was a forum where we shouldn't be overly PC, I
> would think this is it. How's this for a rule of thumb? Anyone
> intentionally and obviously being an Ass, smoke em, otherwise
> give them the benefit of the doubt!
>
> Wadda ya think? Andrew?


I was watching the thread, but did not step in because nobody was getting out of hand.  I think that the issue just came up over some confusion about the intent or background of the posting.  Once that got cleared up, everyone seemed happy.

Really, for all the traffic, we have so very few arguments.

It is also true that many martial arts movies are perfect for a b-movie night.  Especially the older ones, with all the bad dubbing and (often due to editing) disjointed stories.  Still, look at something like "The Crippled Masters" and you just know that it is gold on tape.

Many apologies.  I don't mean to be the one that wouldn't let a thread die, but I just read this, and I can't leave it alone...

Great Sage wrote:


> Yes, that's true... But the classroom provides a foundation
> from with the real world revolves.


The Classroom is, in theory, anyway, founded on the real world.  Without the world of practical application, the classroom would be irrelevent.

I believe in the power of a college education, but anyone who has been in the Army will tell you that a Seargent (all real-world experience) knows more than a Lieutenant (all classroom, not experience).

Both are important.  Neither outranks the other, so to speak.

Yes, in regards to all three films.