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Susan mentioned "Alien 3" in the other thread about aliens.  I can't recall ever seeing a thread about this one so I thought I'd write a few things about it.  

I thought the 3rd Alien was ok.  I didn't love it but I didn't hate it either.  I, like many others, do feel that it is the weakest entry in the series.  It just didn't grab ahold of me and pull me in like the other films did.

The things I didn't like were all the bald heads (because of lice) and the fact that they had virtually no weapons.  It just doesn't seem like an "Alien" movie without weapons to kill them with.
And they killed off Newt!  That right there was very disappointing but it was intentionally meant to show that the aliens ultimately had taken from Ripley everything that she held dear, even her own life in the end.  
I felt it would've been much better with Newt & Ripley together in the prison facility.  A bald Newt....hehe!  Then she'd have something in common with her "K.C." toy doll head.  (Was it bald?  I can't remember...my VCR broke the other day so I can't pop the tape in to check...dammit!)
As for Hicks, he was a cool soldier but I understand them killing him off the way they did.
Charles S. Dutton was also excellent in his supporting role.

I also liked the fact that the aliens are capable of "impregnating" a species other than humans as demonstrated by the "dog" alien.  
That was original.  

One thing that bothered me though was the fact that the facehugger impregnated Ripley while in hypersleep but aren't they supposed to die after they do so?  It was established in the first movie that they did.  
Not in this film.  
It lived to impregnate the dog.  The only thing I can think of is that there were 2 of them.  One to get Ripley and one to get the dog.

The film was a modest effort at best.

What do you think?



Post Edited (11-15-03 03:18)

I LIKE Alien 3 a lot, I'd say about as much as Alien and Aliens. Why? Because they had to kill of the Alien with only their BRAINS, in the first movie they had two flame throwers, though they didn't do much they were still cool weapones, and when I watch the people sealing off the doors It's still quite good tension wise. The new alien looks diffrent ,that's a nice plus though I really hate it when animals die in movies (especially dogs). The movie had a even darker and mooder and more..secluded feeling , very alone. It's Alien Resurrection that's the weakest entry, that movie is dull and crappy (I admit the Aliens did look quite good in that movie but we barly saw them.) All in all Alien 3 totally stands in the front line with Alien and Aliens (Alien Resurrection is in the fourth row behind Alien 1,2, and3) That's what I think

>(I admit the Aliens did look quite good in that movie but we barly saw them.)

They looked like they were covered in fudge.

I'm with Dave, in the group that thinks Alien 3 kicks near as much ass as the first one.  I think it's at least as good, maybe even better than Aliens.
To run down ASH's list in order:  They had more for weaponry in 3 than they did in the first one.  Loads and loads of explosives vs. a few flamethrowers and a cattle prod?  No contest.
Newt was annoying as hell.  She was a Kenny plain and simple, good riddance.
They address the alien-from-dog stuff a little more in the comics, where they talk about how the aliens take on the traits of whatever creature they impregnate, which is why there are aliens with tusks in Alien vs. Predator.
And I think the computer talks about there being multiple life forms on board, so there's more than one facehugger.  The queen cranked out eggs pretty fast, remember.  She had plenty of time to lay a few before she iced Bishop.
Alien 3 is all about the atmosphere, and as Dave said, what a great creepy isolated atmosphere it is.

Brother R

I thought it was utter crap, worthless from begining to end.  You boil everything away, and all you have is another bad slasher movie, where the (most) heroes of the previous film are wasted in the first few minutes.  It was cheap, lazy, and unnecessary.  

It didn't improve on either movie, had a ton of dislikable characters, and thought itself far cleverer than it actually was.  (The fourth one had the same problem)

Of course, I'm a big fan of The Toxic Avenger, Maximum Overdrive, and the American Godzilla, so what do I know?  (On the flip side, I'd never say that any of those weregood films...)

---

Brother Ragnarok wrote:

> And I think the computer talks about there being multiple life
> forms on board, so there's more than one facehugger.  The queen
> cranked out eggs pretty fast, remember.  She had plenty of time
> to lay a few before she iced Bishop.

I'm not sure she could.   Remember, she had that whole set-up attached to her when she was laying eggs in Aliens.  That couldn't have been window dressing; if the mother could just pop them out, why didn't she?

She might have been able to scoop a couple of eggs up when she went after Ripley, but that wasn't shown.  But let's assume she did.

How long does it take to double check the transport ship, just to be sure there were no more eggs?  It's not like the mother had the run of the ship to hide them like a malign Easter Bunny.  If I were in Ripley's place, I'd have gone over the damn thing just to make sure it was really over.

Having her not do this paints her as an incompetent, which is something the first two movies did not do.  It's yet another reason why I can't stand the movie.  (I actually pretend that the final two movies take place in an alternate universe, but that's because I'm an utter geek.)

Any further thought is, of course, welcome.  Bear in mind it's been years since I've seen the film, and I'm bound to screw up here and there on specifics.

---

Its definatly the weakest in the series. I love all David Fincher's film, apart from this, his debut. The production of  Alien 3 has been well documented as being one of the messiest in history, Script rewrites, production wrangles, story changes, arguments between Fincher and FOX, Weaver backing Fincher and generally some really bad ideas from conception. A prison planet? Bad idea. Religion? Bad idea. Killing off Hicks and Newt? Bad idea. Only giving Bishop a small role? Bad idea. It wrecked all the brilliant things that were established in the first two, and led to the bastard offspring that was "Ressurection".

To settle the alien impregnator issue: Alien3 clearly shows two eggs stuck to some remote corner of the ship by webs or slime in the beginning sequence.  So there were two eggs.

I think the Alien movies are kinda like the Star Wars movies.  The first was a classic, the second was excellent, but in a different way from the first, the third was a let down but still had some good elements, and the fourth was awful.

What I liked about Alien3: Some of the inmate characters were cool and cracked me up.  So did the warden.  The idea of them being up against this thing unarmed was an inspired one IMO, even though they copped out by giving the inmates the explosives.  The chase scene where they were locking doors behind the thing to trap the alien was very good.

What I didn't like about Alien3: I'll probably catch flak for this, but I always thot Ripley was the dullest and least inspiring character in the first two movies.  Having her be the only holdover was a bad idea.  Hicks should have made it and Bishop should have been more intact.  While I liked some of the inmate characters, I hated others: specifically those who survived the longest.  The alien looked fake because CGI was in its infancy.  And having Ripley as a Christ figure was a bad idea in a laugh-out-loud kinda way.

Alien3 was not horrible, but it wasn't in the same class as the first two.

" Alien3 clearly shows two eggs stuck to some remote corner of the ship by webs or slime in the beginning sequence. So there were two eggs."

Get a screen cap of this.  I didn't see it...

One cut sequence shows the guy with the shovel picking up the face hugger, which is FAR larger then a normal one - it is a super face hugger, which can implant in multiple victims.

http://dvd.ign.com/news/32602.html?fromint=1

That has a reference to that cut scene.  Apparently it is on the new Quadrilogy 9 disc set.

I never liked he first one and never considered it a classic  - as everyone else does.

I liked the ALIEN 2 film when I first seen it. It was quite intense.

Wasn't ALIEN 3 the one were they have these born again Christian types in a prison colony out in space?  I liked this concept. Christians in space !  You never seen that in a film before. You have to wonder about Sci-Fi and the idea that Christianity dosn't exist in the future. Even better than that try the flip side......... Imagine telling a born again Christian that they must "witness" the gospel to intelligent alien lifeforms. Not sure if they could deal with it. (at least the ones that I known couldn't). Most would insist that alien life dosn't exist or if it does that it would be demonic. Of course for myself I can imagine alien life seeing us as food, or just plain be anti-human, or using us as slaves or just eliminating us for our planets resources.

My favorite was the ridiculous Catholic space colony in the Ender's Game novel sequels.  It's not that I think it is ridiculous that there would BE a Catholic space colony (Eventually, the government in the novels lets basically any organized group, apparently, start colonies), I just found it ridiculous that they were as ignorant, prejudiced and violent as some Catholic villages from the 14th century.

Well I disagree with you that this was the weakest movie in the Alien series.I view Alien Resurection as the weakest.As for your complaints about a lack of weapons, if you remeber in the first one they didn't have any weapons either except for a make shift cattle prod and if I remeber right a make shift flame thrower, I might be wrong on the last one though.

>She might have been able to scoop a couple of eggs up when she went after
>Ripley, but that wasn't shown. But let's assume she did.

The biggest problem I have with that is how did the queen get on the ship? Ripley and Newt jumped up on the dropship ramp, which closed after them. You'd think Ripley would notice an 18 foot alien jumping on behind them, plus I didn't get the impression that there was all that much room inside the dropship, just the main bay for the APC, some seats and the cockpit, which doesn't leave many places for a giant alien to hide. From the way it descends after skewering Bishop, it seemed like it was hiding in one of the landing gear wells, but then it should have either been crushed by the landing gear retracting, or caused the gear to malfunction. I highly doubt that the well had room enough for the queen and the landing gear.

>As for your complaints about a lack of weapons, if you remeber in the first one
>they didn't have any weapons either except for a make shift cattle prod and if I
>remeber right a make shift flame thrower, I might be wrong on the last one though.

I forget if it was mentioned in the movie, but in the novelization, they did have weapons, but were afraid to use them for fear of the alien's blood eating through the hull of the ship. So they decided to rig up the flame throwers instead.

If the in-print stuff counts as canon, there are several sequences in various comic book series that show the xenomorphs surviving quite comfortably in the vaccum of space.  My guess has always been that the queen simply latched on to the side of the ship and crawled inside unnoticed while Ripley was tucking Hicks in.

Brother R

If the in-print stuff counts as canon, there are several sequences in various comic book series that show the xenomorphs surviving quite comfortably in the vaccum of space.

The first  movie also illustrates that point at the end.  The Alien seemed to have no problem in space

"I just found it ridiculous that they were as ignorant, prejudiced and violent as some Catholic villages from the 14th century."

Writers and film makers that set out to make anti-Catholic statements are rarely subtle.  Check out the hopelessly boring and heavy handed movie "Handmaiden's Tale" for a good example.

Some other cases of religion in Sci-Fi that comes to mind:

The three Muslims on Hajj to "New Mecca" in Pitch Black
The half-assed cross between Christianity and Lucas's "Force" in Wing Commander.
The "Jews in Space" bit from History of the World Part 1.

"If the in-print stuff counts as canon, there are several sequences in various comic book series that show the xenomorphs surviving quite comfortably in the vaccum of space. My guess has always been that the queen simply latched on to the side of the ship and crawled inside unnoticed while Ripley was tucking Hicks in."

While I thought the ending scene of Aliens was unnecessary and made the movie too long, the Alien pretty clearly gets Bishop from a perch in one of the landing ship's big air intakes (something you wouldn't actually see on a vessel that operates in space, but hell it looked cool), not from within the ship.

Brother Ragnarok wrote:

> If the in-print stuff counts as canon, there are several
> sequences in various comic book series that show the xenomorphs
> surviving quite comfortably in the vaccum of space.  My guess
> has always been that the queen simply latched on to the side of
> the ship and crawled inside unnoticed while Ripley was tucking
> Hicks in.
>
> Brother R
>

Two problems with that:

1.) As I recall it, the mother was clearly blown far and away from the main ship in Aliens.  I don't think there's any way for her to come back on board.  But, even if she had...

2.) Where's her corpse in Alien3?  Or, at least, evidence of her presence (beyond the eggs)?  She surely didn't come into the ship, drop off a few eggs, then pop back out again.

There had to be a better way of handling things, is all I'm saying.

(Don't mind me.  I recently rewatched Godzilla v. King Ghidorah.  That always leaves me grouchy.)

---

Writers and film makers that set out to make anti-Catholic statements are rarely subtle. Check out the hopelessly boring and heavy handed movie "Handmaiden's Tale" for a good example.

I didn't really take "Handmaiden's Tale" as anti-Catholic; mostly just anti-fascist

The three Muslims on Hajj to "New Mecca" in Pitch Black

I thought this was handled fairly well.  The main guy still had his faith in the end even with his followers dying but they didn't overplay him as a 'religious nut'

For the most part, though, I'm: a) Born-agin Christian b) Musician c) Computer Programmer.  I almost never see *any* of those groups treated with even a modicum of accuracy in movies so I pretty much assume that no other belief system or profession is either.  The writer/director/producer simply tell the story they want to tell and the various religions, professions and hobbies are merely there as vehicles

"I didn't really take "Handmaiden's Tale" as anti-Catholic; mostly just anti-fascist"

I thought it equated the two.  Maybe I'm oversensitive.

"I thought this was handled fairly well. The main guy still had his faith in the end even with his followers dying but they didn't overplay him as a 'religious nut'"

I thought it was handled well too and added an interesting aspect to what was IMO an otherwise generic movie.  I guess the wording of my post may have implied that I was being critical, but I wasn't.

Brother Ragnarok wrote:

> I'm with Dave, in the group that thinks Alien 3 kicks near as
> much ass as the first one.  I think it's at least as good,
> maybe even better than Aliens.

I'm of the group that thinks that the group that thought Alien 3 was good was watching a different movie than the one our group saw.
The film was, pretty much, crap.  Crap with atmosphere, but still crap none the less.

> Newt was annoying as hell.  She was a Kenny plain and simple,
> good riddance.

That's kind of a cruel attitude.  Other people's children are almost always annoying - but she was just a kid.  I know it's just a movie, but isn't it kind of cruel to be so off-hand about her death?
Personally, I liked Newt.  She acted just like, well, a kid - which is very unlike the way kids frequently act in movies.

> {ABRIDGED}
> And I think the computer talks about there being multiple life
> forms on board, so there's more than one facehugger.  The queen
> cranked out eggs pretty fast, remember.  She had plenty of time
> to lay a few before she iced Bishop.

This doesn't wash.  The eggs being on the ship at all doesn't wash.  For those who lacked the facility of attention, the Alien queen laid eggs through the use of an impressively large apparatus attached to its backend.  Now, while I have no doubt that it could have re-grown said apparatus after detaching itself from it (after Ripley shot it full of holes), it certainly didn't before its final battle with Ripley.  Since the apparatus is where the eggs were coming from, it couldn't lay eggs - and it's exoskeleton's structure supports this theorum.  The short version of this is THERE IS NO WAY THAT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN EGGS ON THE SHIP.  None.  Zero.  

Or, at least, there couldn't have been the way that Aliens ended.  But, hey, why should the makers of A3 bother with that?  They're here to make a MOVIE, and fans of movies are too stupid to, like, notice  things.

In the end, A3 was a complete betrayal of the series' fans.  Every triumph of the preceeding movies was wiped out.  Logic was simply ignored, and the makers of the film said "Ahh, f#&* the first two.  Who cares about the fans?  I wanna make a prison movie, and that's more important than things like logic or story."

However...  

> Alien 3 is all about the atmosphere, and as Dave said, what a
> great creepy isolated atmosphere it is.

I have to say that atmosphere was a very significant part of the movie.  It was creepy.  But you can get the same atmosphere in the film The City of Lost Children (same director as Alien 4, which also sucked) without having to watch a film that stomps on what came before it, and gives a rousing middle finger to the fans.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.



Post Edited (11-18-03 13:28)

I think we are over annaylsing this movie.Its a crappy sequal as was Alien resurection.Personnaly I only view the first two movies as being true Alien movies.

I think we are over annaylsing this movie.Its a crappy sequal as was Alien resurection.

How many words did you devote to analyzing "The Matrix"?

wyckednick wrote:

> I think we are over annaylsing this movie.Its a crappy sequal
> as was Alien resurection.Personnaly I only view the first two
> movies as being true Alien movies.

You might be right, but it's kind of fun, so long as everbody's being civil.

---

I do agree though that the last two ALIEN films aren't necessary.   The third one went through a ton of screenplay changes, and it shows.   I just got the sense that the movie had no real focus and was just slapped together because they wanted to cash in.  Which is probably the way most sequels  are put together, but it just seemed obvious the movie didn't really need to be made.  The fourth one was probably worse, though it wasn't as annoying since it didn't kill the survivors from the previous film.

> 1.) As I recall it, the mother was clearly blown far and away
> from the main ship in Aliens.  I don't think there's any
> way for her to come back on board.  But, even if she had...

Read his post again. He never said she came back on board after being blown out of the airlock. Ragnarok is right in the sense that the Queen could have latched onto the Drop Ship (and the Big Air vents DO make sense, to whoever said it before, because the United States Colonial Marine Corps standard Drop Ship is good for air and space travel) and sat their comfortably while in deep space. When blown out of the airlock, she was immediately pulled into the atmosphere of LV-426 (Acheron), and burned up.

> 2.) Where's her corpse in Alien3?  Or, at least,
> evidence of her presence (beyond the eggs)?  She surely didn't
> come into the ship, drop off a few eggs, then pop back out
> again.

As states in the beginning of ALIENS, there would be no physical evidence of the Queen's stay onboard the USS Sulaco due to it being blown out of the airlock. Also, as I stated in the above reply, the Queen was only in space twice: once when hitching a ride onboard the Drop Ship to the Sulaco, and once when flushed into space (and thus into Acheron's atmosphere to burn up) after Ripley kicked her ass via the Power Loader.

I'm guessing you, Cullen, have never read the first three series of Aliens comics that Dark Horse presented between 1987 and 1991? Check them out. The art varies, but the overall story is TREMENDOUS (and would have made a better Alien 3 than what we got, hands-down).

I LOVED ALIEN 3 BETTER THEN ALIEN 1!

"Writers and film makers that set out to make anti-Catholic statements are rarely subtle. Check out the hopelessly boring and heavy handed movie "Handmaiden's Tale" for a good example."

It wasn't ANTI-Catholic though..  At least it didn't seem to be.  If anything, it seemed to be pro-catholic, which made it even weirder.

But, about Pitch Black, I thought that was a great portrayal by Keith David.  Or is it David Keith.  Anyways, that was a good, well-written role and a good performance.

I wish they'd used the earlier draft of Alien Ressurection I saw on the net.  It was way cooler, had a cooler Newborn birthing, and a lot more exciting action.  Sounded about 10x better then the real movie.

i didnot like the 3rd instalment of Alien i carnt say why it just seemed to lose the scare of the first and second even though it was closer to the firt then any of he sequals but it just didnot feel right. overall Aliens is the best ( the dirctors cut) as you learn some more about the alien speices and has lors of violence as well.
(if anything is spelt wrong dont kill me)

But, about Pitch Black, I thought that was a great portrayal by Keith David. Or is it David Keith. Anyways, that was a good, well-written role and a good performance.

I liked the character development of the main (three) characters as the story went along and thught there was some good texturing of several of the others.

Alien was a great thriller/horrror movie, lots of tension, and a very unpleasant way of dying.
Aliens  was a fun action/shoot-em-up movie.
Alien 3 was um, wait, already been done.  We now know what the alien does, and we've had the shoot out.  Not much is left to surprise us.

I'd like to forget that film ever existed.... It was a HUGE disappointment next to ALIENS. Some sequels should never be made if they're just gonna take up valuable space, time, and money. There's my .2 cents.

... Velvet guy.. You thought ALIENS was a huge dissapointment?

Right. Moving along.

Queen clung onto giant airvents on dropship: Okay, plausible explanation. When the dropship got back into the bay on the Sulaco, she'd have enough time to hide while Ripley & co. were getting out.

Now, as for the whole 'eggs on the drop-ship' debate. Maybe when she clung onto the airvents on the dropship, she had two eggs attached to her back-spikes (forgive me if I don't know what they're called), or something along those lines. I don't know how they'd get INSIDE the dropship.. but whatever.

Hell, maybe she put them in there while Newt was under the metal flooring. It must've been dark down there, and who knows? Ripley wouldn't have seen. Too busy prepping the power loader.


And there's my five bucks worth.

The atmosphere in #3 was just ripped off from the planet in the first two movies. I was left with the impression that all planets look like that in the future, so as to avoid any variations in tone in sequels. They couldn't even decide if they wanted it to be a prison or a monestary, tried to do both, if you call that trying. I'm actually very prejudiced against the filthy papists, but I almost threw popcorn when the guy said he saw a dragon. A guy born and raised in an interstellar future society has a conversion experience, and this causes him to regress 1,500 years and not recognise an alien. All that we learn of the characters is that they're all depressed and badass.

Newt has my eternal loyalty just for being a little blonde girl in a movie that isn't a bad seed and dosen't say "They're heeeeeeeAAAAAAAArrr". She's one of the ten greatest characters in the history of fiction. The only thing I can think of that she did that anyone could find annoying is scream when monsters chase her.

I've probably mentioned this before, but just before they go into coldsleep at the end of #2, Newt asks, "Will I dream?" I take that to mean that the subsequent movies were  just coldsleep nightmares.

Thesis of Handmaids Tale: All who dare question Steinem are monsters.

Alien 3 wasn't bad per se... it just made a lot of the usual sequel mistakes.

It made the heinous mistake of killing off 3 of the 4 remaining characters and Ripley was starting to wear thin by this point. Really, it should have been all or nothing. Keeping all of them or killing them all off.

The repeated rewrites show as the film is slow to start - but not really building up much in that time. As pointed out the whole eggs thing doesn't really make sense either. Wherever did that acid spraying facehugger at the strart come from? Where was the oppurtunity for them to get aboard - the Queen, I'll give you but all these facehuggers? Bit much.

Alien 3 was a decent sequel. Kind of the way that some of the Nightmare on Elm Street sequels were. It's Alien 4 that should have never been made.

Btw newt had to die, if it picked up where it left off from the previous movie and they were frozen in hypersleep - it's been years since Aliens. The newt actress grew up, i wouldn't have wanted to see a replacement kid. Plus there was no need for a kid.  I heard that they originally thought of having Alien 3 at a monistary, imagine a bunch of monks shooting up an alien..lol

I like Aliens best, even tho the vasquez/hudson relationship was nearly intolerable

>Alien 3 wasn't bad per se... it just made a lot of the usual sequel mistakes.

Yes, like thinking that as long as the movie had an alien in it, they could do whatever they wanted with the rest of the movie and the fans would be happy.

>Btw newt had to die, if it picked up where it left off from the previous movie

But it didn't have to pick up right where Aliens left off.

Intolerable? What do you mean, relationship? I think you're talking about Vasquez and Drake, the guy at the beginning who says, "You're just too bad" and she slaps him playfully.

And in that case, no, I don't think it was intolerable. It just showed even more that they were like regular marines. Only in space.

If anyone had to die, it was Ripley. You would think the series was called "Ripley"! She was starting to overshadow the aliens, with this supposed feminist message of her "strong" character (who's suicidal junkie in #3). Newt could've grown up to be a serious alien killa, practically born fighting them. With minimal imagination, it's easy to see her pod having been ejected, picked up by some bounty hunters, pirates, or anyone UNCONNECTED TO THE COMPANY (which was already a tiresome offscreen heavy in #2), and raised in space. Next movie opens with her and other basically all new characters facing the aliens on some planet that's spooky without being an EXACT COPY of the first one with some nonsensical atmospheric details thrown in like an ecosystem comprised entirely of lice or it's a monestery/prison. BTW, that planet WAS a monestary, they just thought the prison planet idea was cool too, so they mashed the two ideas together incoherently.

Anyone else get a headache from the clumsy Christ imagery (pose Ripley strikes when she says "kill me")? This is what they get for hiring a Maddona video director. Oh, I forgot he's a genius now because of the over-the-top incredulous cartoon violence (he force fed the guy till he exploded? WTF?!) in his lame Doctor Phibes ripoff. NYARRRGGG!!!!!!!

If anyone had to die, it was Ripley. You would think the series was called "Ripley"! She was starting to overshadow the aliens, with this supposed feminist message of her "strong" character (who's suicidal junkie in #3). Newt could've grown up to be a serious alien killa, practically born fighting them. With minimal imagination, it's easy to see her pod having been ejected, picked up by some bounty hunters, pirates, or anyone UNCONNECTED TO THE COMPANY (which was already a tiresome offscreen heavy in #2), and raised in space. Next movie opens with her and other basically all new characters facing the aliens on some planet that's spooky without being an EXACT COPY of the first one with some nonsensical atmospheric details thrown in like an ecosystem comprised entirely of lice or it's a monestery/prison. BTW, that planet WAS a monestary, they just thought the prison planet idea was cool too, so they mashed the two ideas together incoherently.

Anyone else get a headache from the clumsy Christ imagery (pose Ripley strikes when she says "kill me")? This is what they get for hiring a Maddona video director. Oh, I forgot he's a genius now because of the over-the-top incredulous cartoon violence (he force fed the guy till he exploded? WTF?!) in his lame Doctor Phibes ripoff. NYARRRGGG!!!!!!!

I totally agree Dave, Ripley's role in 3 escalated out of all reasonable proportion. She wasn't bad in Aliens but it all got a bit silly after that. I can really see where you're coming from on wanting to get away from the company too - the whole "developing aliens into the perfect weapon and f**king it up" theme has been done ad nauseum in the books and comics and it really isn't that exciting an idea.

Although, personally I think the plot of the AvP2 game would have made a super film.

I just remembered what I forgot to write in there with all my foamin' and double postin' -
Taking on the traits of the host is the ANTITHESIS of parasitism! The whold point of parasitism is that you get the use of anitomical features without having to grow them yourself. Hence, parasites tend to lack things like limbs and eyes. Whatever your host has, that's what you don't need, it'd be redundant. Implying that an acid blooded xenomorph absorbs mammalian DNA and splices it right into it's own genes (for no apparent reason, it's a perfectly functional organism to begin with, it's going to a lot of trouble to take on traits from INFERIOR organisms), without screwing itself up makes the alien into the one from "Split Second", or maybe the bugs in "Speicies".  I probably shouldn't get myself started on my problems with all the Dark Horse stuff though, or I'll NEVER get a girlfriend.

But the Aliens aren't true parasites - in that they only require a host for breeding, they don't actually exist inside the host... I remember some technobabble explanation for why the  "adaption" the xenomorphs showed... I can't remember exactly what it was but it sounded ok. Though I don't claim to know enough about biology to know - although to be fair, one should never try to rationalise these things too hard.

Definition of parasite:

parasite  
SYLLABICATION: par·a·site
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: pr-st     KEY  
NOUN: 1. Biology: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.
2a. One who habitually takes advantage of the generosity of others without making any useful return. b. One who lives off and flatters the rich; a sycophant.
3. A professional dinner guest, especially in ancient Greece.  



The alien needs a body, preferably a mammal, in which to grow and mature to chestburster stage.

So there you have it right out of the dictionary...it IS a parasite.



Post Edited (07-29-04 01:50)

I know I'll probably be in the minority when I say I felt Alien3 was just as badly thought out as the second installment. Yes, I'm referring to Aliens!
 Aliens really dumbed-down the original: one deadly, hyper -intelligent, almost-indestructable monster becomes many gormless, and not nearly as indestructable critters, easily torn apart by equally brainless loud-mouthed Marines. No careful character development in this script as there was in Dan O' Bannon's original. At least in Alien3 Fincher took care to give the human meat gory deaths....
Just a shame they had to kill off the most interesting characters early: Clemens' relationship with Ripley was becoming interesting, and after Warden Andrews (brilliant Brian Glover) dies, all we are left with is a motley cast of extras -of whom only Charles Dutton's character provides any real interest.
And what was all that crap at the end with the 'real' Bishop coming to claim his alien?
I agree with Dave's 'dark and moody' description, but on the whole I felt it was a bit of a missed opportunity.

>I know I'll probably be in the minority when I say I felt Alien3 was just as badly
>thought out as the second installment. Yes, I'm referring to Aliens!

I liked Aliens, although I did have a problem with some of the changes they made to the aliens. Like introducing the queen, and the differences in the heads.

>Aliens really dumbed-down the original: one deadly, hyper -intelligent, almost-
>indestructable monster becomes many gormless, and not nearly as
>indestructable critters, easily torn apart by equally brainless loud-mouthed
>Marines.

I'm going partly by the novelization of the first movie, but the crew was reluctant to use any weapons that might break the alien's skin because they were afraid that its blood would eat through the ship and depressurize it, or destroy something that they couldn't repair. Besides, the marines were more used to fighting. As for the aliens attacking them outright rather than sneaking up on people, maybe they instinctively felt there was safety in numbers.

"The whold point"? #1 and #2 are kind of apples and oranges, IMO. Sometimes I think of #2 as a remake of #1, as SF/action instead of gothic horror (sf). So if you judge #2 by the standards of #1, it's not that good. You could say the same about T2 in a way. I still like both #2s better anyway. My one major problem with #2 is how the queen got onto the mother ship. It's been explained to me often that she hang onto the shuttle's landing gear or something, but it still dosn't make sense to me, really.

I suppose if the alien was genetically engineered to take over different inhabited planets (which I think was implied somewhere, maybe one of the comics), it would make sense for it to adapt to them by using native DNA. But #3 gave me the impression that every planet exactly the same "lit through a fan" environment. I believe it is often reffered to as parasitic, although it's hardly typical of known ones, and there are things that start with a parasitic stage and then have completely different characteristics as adults. I think that whole taking on it's hosts traits thing mostly just bugs me because it's something a generic alien would do in an Alien ripoff, and makes it sound more generic. Why don't they make it a shapeshifting telepath while they're at it?

Now shall we break down all successfull movie sequels? Who wants to start with Nightmare on elm Street, or maybe we should go back to Friday the 13th.

Just as many will flock to see Alien Vs. Predetor, I want to see ripley battle with Critters.

Back to this topic, anyone have thoughts on where the AVP sequel fits in? Can it be as good without ripley?  Who will win? And why the crap do we need to see this?

Susan wrote:
 
> Back to this topic, anyone have thoughts on where the AVP
> sequel fits in? Can it be as good without ripley?  Who will
> win? And why the crap do we need to see this?


Aliens Vs. Predator is simply all of the fanboys' wet dreams come true.
It has been a long time in the making...since '91 if I'm not mistaken.
Go to the 'trivia' section on AvP on IMDB.com to read more on that.

I will see AvP not because I'm a fanboy...far from it actually...I used to beat up fanboys in school.
But I do have a morbid fascination with both the aliens and the predator and seeing them together in a film is cool in my opinion.
If it's done correctly.

So no, AvP doesn't really seem necessary but at the same time it does.
I could care less if Ripley is or isn't in it.  While she was a cool character, the universe of the alien has more to it than her...there ARE alternate storylines and this will be one of them WITHOUT her.
I am curious to see where it will go.
Like Paul Anderson, I too saw that alien skull on the predators' trophy wall in Predator 2 and right then and there I thought it would be totally kickass to see them in action together in the same movie.

AvP will either totally suck or be f**king killer.



Post Edited (07-28-04 23:05)

I know I'll probably be in the minority when I say I felt Alien3 was just as badly thought out as the second installment. Yes, I'm referring to Aliens.
Aliens really dumbed-down the original: one deadly, hyper -intelligent, almost-indestructable monster becomes many gormless, and not nearly as indestructable critters, easily torn apart by equally brainless loud-mouthed Marines. No careful character development in this script as in Dan O' Bannon's original. At least in Alien3 Fincher took care to give the human meat gory deaths....
Just a shame they had to kill off the most interesting characters early: Clemens' relationship with Ripley was becoming interesting, and after Warden Andrews (brilliant Brian Glover) dies, all we are left with is a motley cast of extras -of whom only Charles Dutton's character provides any real interest.
And what was all that crap at the end with the 'real' Bishop coming to claim his alien?
I agree with Dave's 'dark and moody' description, but on the whole I felt Alien3 was a bit of a missed opportunity.

For those who don't know: AVP is PG-13.
For those who don't know: Fox ass-raped Paul W. S. Anderson, because he was STRIVING to make the movie R.
For those who don't know: In light of the success of the Alien Quadrilogy DVD box set, though, Fox mihgt decide to release the regular, theatrical movie out on DVD and VHS sometime near the end of this year/early next year, and then.. release an uncut, unedited version, near the second quarter to middle of next year. Anderson wanted a nice, 2-hour + movie (not MUCH over two hours ,mind you), and I've heard Fox edited it down to 90 minutes.
... For those who don't know: These 'For those who don't know' things are getting old. =D

I thought it was an okay film.  It's quite atmospheric, and that's really enough to carry a film quite nicely if you ask me.  I liked the aliens running across the ceiling, and the ending in the big molten tin thing was nice.  

Quite a departure from the first two films.  I really think Alien and Aliens were perfect 10's, and Alien 3 didn't live up to that standard, but almost no other movies do either, so that's hardly a criticizm.  

I definitely want to get the extended version on DVD.  It's a purchase I've been putting off for too long now.

Alien vs. Predator sounds like a great idea for a video game to me.  Bad idea for a movie.  Money, money money.  How  'bout Schwarzenegger vs. Ripley?  Anybody wanna see that?  Me neither.  Nor A vs. P.

ASHTHECAT wrote:

>
> AvP will either totally suck or be f**king killer.


3 Words: "Freddy Vs. jason"

I guess with this new idea at combining villians vs having another sequel, we'll be seeing Terminator vs. Robocop. How about totally combinging movie concepts? The Candyman in Wonkaland: When a select few lucky children win a golden Ticket into Willy Wonka's chocolate factory, they quickly realize the Candyman will never let them leave alive....

LOL@Susan

clever :)

Aliens vs. Predator ALREADY IS a game. And a comic book. That's what Paul Anderson is loosely basing the movie off of.

Sounds like my uncle Ralph.  He came to visit my folks in the early 80's for "a week or two".  He was there for 3 years.

Alien 3,    was not the best and not the worst..  Cons: it was David Finchers first movie... no bad considering it was his first, alot of deleted scenes,  Ripley was empregnated bya queen Alien facehugger, that was cut out,  there were two face huggers. pros  it was the best ALIEN design out of all four movies, the design was made by HR. GIGER where he refines all the ALIENS flaws from the first one, and wanted to make it more elegant,and swift, which he called it the erotic ALIEN< cause of it full lips...   ALIEN 3 was orignal, and over the years we come to respect David Finchers style,   I have the Alien 3 prop in my house, It Stands 8 feet tall, beautiful.and terrifying.    ALIEN 3 was the creature design  was the best !!! and with out that I dont think I would have show any  interest in the movie.  I you notice alien 2 never focused on one specific Alien, there was no real design if you seen the costumes they were like skeletons ,

I think I do agree about the design of the Alien in #3. Maybe part of what bugs me about the "taking on the traits of the host dog" part is that I want to think of that as being what the Alien looked like all along. You never get a good look at it until the end of #1, then it just looks like a guy in a lizard suit.

SWISS PLATINIUM BANK
London England
phone:442070601246
fax:442070678918


I am Ibras Gardner, head of group risk, SPM Bank London, England.On Monday,31 July, 1990, one Kohler Stephane, a German National, a property magnate,made a numbered time (Fixed) Deposit, 10,550,000.00 (Ten
Million,Five Hundred and Fifty Thousand Pounds) for twelve calender months
in my Bank Branch. Upon Maturity, we sent a routine notification to his
forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and
finally we discovered from his company that Mr. Kohler Stephane was aboard
the Swissair Flight 111, which crashed , 2 September 1998 into the Hotelissimo.
check the website:http://www.newscotland1398.net/lunenco/swissbaysw.html

After further investigation, it was discovered that he died without making a
WILL and all attempts to trace his next of kin proved fruitless. On further
investigation, it was discovered that Late Mr. Kohler Stephane did not
declare any next of kin or relatives in all his official documents,
including his Bank Deposit paper work here in our Bank. The total sum,
£10,550,000.00 is still in my bank and the interest is being rolled
over with the principal sum at the end of each year. No one will ever come
forward to claim it. In accordance with the British banking laws and
constitution, at the expiration of 5 (five) years, the money will revert to
the British Government treasury if nobody applies as the next of Kin to
claim the funds. Consequently, I shall present you as a foreign partner to
stand in as the next of kin to the late Mr. Kohler Stephane.

Upon acceptance of this proposal, I shall send to you the SPM Bank "Next of
Kin Payment Application Form" as well as detailed information on how this
deal would be carried out. We shall employ the services of a solicitor for
the drafting of the LAST WILL & TESTAMENT of Late Mr. Kohler Stephane and to obtain all other relevant papers in your name for the necessary
documentation for payment approval in my bank headquarters in your favour.
The money will be shared in the ratio: Sixty percent for me, thirty five
percent for you and five percent for any arising contigencies during the
course of this transaction.I guarantee that this will be executed under
legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law as I
will use my position as the Bank's head of group risk to secure approvals
and guarantee the successful execution of this transaction. Please be
informed that your utmost confidentiality is required. If this interests
you, reply and include your private

Awaiting your urgent reply.

Thanks.

Best regards,

Ibras Gardner

Ibras Gardner wrote:

> SWISS PLATINIUM BANK
> London England
> phone:442070601246
> fax:442070678918
>
>
> I am Ibras Gardner, head of group risk, SPM Bank London,
> England.On Monday,31 July, 1990, one Kohler Stephane, a German
> National, a property magnate,made a numbered time (Fixed)
> Deposit, 10,550,000.00 (Ten
> Million,Five Hundred and Fifty Thousand Pounds) for twelve
> calender months
> in my Bank Branch. Upon Maturity, we sent a routine
> notification to his
> forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a
> reminder and

************Edited************

> legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of
> the law as I
> will use my position as the Bank's head of group risk to secure
> approvals
> and guarantee the successful execution of this transaction.
> Please be
> informed that your utmost confidentiality is required. If this
> interests
> you, reply and include your private
>
> Awaiting your urgent reply.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ibras Gardner

OH MAN! I am so gonna be RICH! Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr Gardner for posting this to this message board! This will change my life forever! I didn't believe this crap when it was spammed to me in e-mail over the last 7 years using various names and institutions but now that you, oh great Ibras Gardner, have decided to put it on the Badmovies board, I know for a fact that it's real! I can't believe my luck! My ship has come in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! By the way...you say in your last line you would like me to include my "private", but I'm not sure exactly what private you are talking about? Did you mean "privates" as in a picture of my privates?

A-hole spammer.

Alien 3 was the worst, followed closely by Resurrection, I says.

Alien 3 was like a long and badly shot music video, with extra gore.  It had exactly one good scene in it:  the alien sniffing Ripley then departing.   No, wait.  I take it back.  The alien jumping out of the molten iron wasn't bad, either.

The, ah, "film's" unforgivable sins:   the heavy metal rape scene.  Killing Newt and Hicks in the first few minutes.   The godawful crucifixion imagery at the end!  (!!!)  

That movie was a gen-yoo-wine POS in my book.