Badmovies.org Forum

In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, Earth is endangered because whales were hunted to extinction in the 20th or 21st Century. This is Bad.

However, it is not Bad because of the loss to the ecosystem; apparently, Earth got along fine without whales, just dandy. It is Bad because a giant starship comes to Earth and starts to microwave it because it can't find the whales it left there eons ago.

...

Cough.

So, if I got this straight, the moral of the movie is: Be nice to Mother Nature (because if you don't, a giant burnt space-cigar will come and kill everyone two hundred years after you die).

Your turn.

Shrek.

I'll try not to spoil anything about the plot, but the moral is, essentially, "Ugly people deserve each other."

It had so much going for it up until the ending...

The worst, most offensive message to me is in the Ralph Bashki animated film Wizards. It's essentailly this: nature and mysticism=good , science and technology= bad. Hell, worse than just bad; science is equated with NAZISM . Some should show this film to Liz from And You Call Yourself a Scientist! She would have a field day.  As for myself, I can only respond to Bashki with a quote from my favorite cartoon character: "Screw you, hippie!"

It's true.  Ugly people do deserve each other.

Fortunately, Shrek and Fiona were beautiful, in a "layered" sort of way.

regards,

Apostic (who, along with Mrs. Apostic, is beautiful in a "layered" sort of way....)

"Hell, worse than just bad; science is equated with NAZISM"

I keep a model of an Me 262 in my office.  It's there to remind me what happens when good technology ends up in the wrong hands.  And I mean wrong not only as in "morally wrong," but in terms of competence, too.

Therefore, it strikes me odd that Bakshi relies on a method of technology (the motion picture projector) to tell his story about technology as evil.

regards,

Apostic

And, don't forget, the "Good" wizard shot his Evil Brother...with a 9mm luger! Is that hypocritical or what? Good idea, Apostic, about the ME 262. A beautiful airplane,but that bent cross on the tail.......Hummm. If the Empire had been given the X-wings, and the Rebels had had the TIE fighters...would the X-wings be concitered....well,attractive as they are? Or the P-51 mustang...if that had been a nazi design....my point is, the look of the TIE's was inspired by the Me 109 series, espchualy the later G series, and there was something in the asthetic that people identified in the TIE design that said,this is Evil. Even if it was subconscious, as most people arn't as likely to notice that asthetic as us "Wing nuts". well...thats a thought to conciter.   On topic: Wizards, and The Beast, and Fire down below....the moral that technology is EVIL!...and nature is some how Holy. Evil...is selfishness...and all means to express and execute that mind set are mere method and tactics. My friends, i have learned some things in my life, and one of them is: Good Intentions do no equal good resaults, nessisarily. OY, have i learned that!......

Have you ever seen Mohagany starring Billy Dee Williams and Diana Ross?  I should just leave it like that but seriously, the end was really bad.  MIss Ross had worked her whole life to make it in the fashion industry but the big happy ending was that she gives it up to be with her colt 45 forty ounce politician husband Ol dirty Williams.  Like being a politician is more savory than a fashion designer.  I have the soundtrack on vinyl "Do you knooooooow what you're blah blah blah do you like the things that life is showing you..."

I've seen the following moral in various movies:

If you are good, then you will get a large sum of money.  This is important because being rich will make you happy.  In fact, you have to be rich before you can be happy.

Where have we seen this?  Max Dugan Returns.  The Uninvited.  Many others.  How many can you think of?

regards,

Apostic

Flangepart wrote:
> Good idea, Apostic, about the ME 262. A beautiful
> airplane,but that bent cross on the tail.......

That's *exactly* how I feel about the Hindenberg.

On the other hand, the best moral might be in It's a Wonderful Life, where they refrain from overtly 'punishing' Mr. Potter because they expect the audience to get that he is alreadly his own worst punishment.

"On the other hand, the best moral might be in It's a Wonderful Life, where they refrain from overtly 'punishing' Mr. Potter because they expect the audience to get that he is alreadly his own worst punishment." - Ken Begg


Agreed. It's a Wonderful Life is one of my favourite movies for a number of reasons, not the least of which is it's emphasis on the importance of community involvement. It might also be the earliest movie in which a character visits an alternate reality. I could be wrong about this. Anybody know?

Anyway, your comment reminded me of Saturday Night Live's "lost ending" in which George Bailey beats the living crap out of Mr. Potter. It had Dana Carvey as Bailey and John Lovitz as Potter, back when SNL was still somewhat clever.

Surely the worst moral-message movies are teen-slasher movies. Teenagers have sex - they die. Teenagers smoke weed - they die.  Teenagers do anything remotely pleasurable - they die.

Okay, I know this isn't a movie, but with a little 'un in the house it's hard to read Children's books and not realize how morally screwed up they are.  I specifically refer to "The Rainbow Fish".

For those who have never had occasion to read it: The RF is the most beutiful fish in the sea, but the other fish shun it when it refuses to give a little blue fish one of its scales.  Lonely, it stumbles across an octopus that tells it to share its scales.  It does, every fish (including the Rainbow Fish at the end) has one rainbow scale and now it has many friends.

My take on possible morals:

1. Shun those who are different,.

2. Communism is good.

3. Buy your friends.

4. If someone has something you want, make them give it to you.

5. Never be beautiful.

I know it's hard to cram a moral message into a twenty page board book whose sole gimmick is foil printing, but I'm amazed how many wrong morals they fit in.

Yeah. Lots of kids stories are about communism if they were made his century. The smurfs were all about communism.

I wonder if nature would be so hot to hippies if they were squating in the dark, covered in feces while hiding from wolves?

It is easy to criticise something when ya got it...isn't it? Sure, sour grapes works too, but I can never get enough of people who are mindlessly resentful of things just cuz they aren't perfect, when a complete lack of them (which they have never really experienced) would suck so much more.

"Teenagers have sex - they die. Teenagers smoke weed - they die. Teenagers do anything remotely pleasurable - they die."

And it's usually a safe bet that the quiet bookworm who's saving it for marriage will live.

Almost any police action film in which the hero disobeys orders and takes some dangerous action that would, in the real world, endanger not only himself but all of the other officers and citizens involved. He not only succeeds brilliantly, but often gets off with a stern lecture instead of being fired and possibly brought up on charges. Occasionally, the hero might get a suspension, but it doesn't last. The moral here is that it's all right to play by your own rules, as long as it works.

OK, the movies wouldn't be as much fun if the heroes followed the rules, and nobody looks for morals in old action films, but, for the sake of discussion, that is definitely the message.

Ah!, but don't forget that the Gandalf-like good wizard uses a nazi-techno-badguy PISTOL to finally defeat his bad brother in the end!
I remember people really getting mad about this at the time when it came out, that is to say, they AGREED with the tech=Nazi message & thought Bakshi copped out by using the pistol at the very end.
I think he was just trying to make a nickel.  Poor guy -- I really think he did have real vision as an artist, but had to cut so many corners to put food on the table.
I still think Heavy Traffic -- the unedited European print -- is an animated masterpiece.

Wonderful Life = first film where man visits alternate reality?
The first one that occurs to me is Buster Keaton's "Sherlock Junior", wherein he visits a stream of alternate realities.

I just looked up Sherlock Jr. on IMDB. It sounds interesting (especially the broken neck), but not really what I would consider an alternate reality story. If the description I read was correct, Keaton is a projectionist who dreams himself into the movie he's showing. I would call that visiting a fantasy world.

By alternate reality, I meant being transported to a parallel version of the 'real' world in which everything is the same, except for some bit of history that happened differently and changed it all. The Star Trek mirror universe or the parallel worlds on Sliders would be examples. Wonderful Life is a bit different, in that George is transported there by supernatural means, rather than technological, but it's basically the same type of story.

I guess it's not really explained whether George was transported to a parallel world, whether the angels altered the real world for him, or whether the whole thing was an illusion. It's not all that relevant either. Capra probably didn't even consider that he might be getting into something related to science fiction.

Sorry, this is getting really far off topic. I just analyze things way too much.

Now theres a thought...a cop movie where the story stsrts off with one of those Eastwood/Stallone Hero rescues the hostages...only the hostages get killed, and the whole rest of the movie is the Hero getting his ass handed to him by the media and his bosses for Fornicating virticaly in a big way. Just a thought, Holluwood!

Although the stated plot in the IMDB is correct, the presentation of Keaton unexpectedly jumping from scene to scene to scene plays more like alternate realities than it does fantasy worlds.

Come to think of it, fantasy worlds, on their own terms, would seem more like real worlds to their inhabitants.  (See also Purple Rose of Cairo and the final sequence of dimension hopping in Waxworks 2.)  Further, a world where things had gone diferently, that's technically a fantasy world for the person who thought of it.  Isn't it?

No?  Dang, I hate trying to think in the morning.   Maybe it's just easier to call "fantasy worlds" and "parallel universes" subsets of alternate realities.

regards,

Apostic

I wouldn't mind seeing Sherlock Jr. It sounds pretty wild. Is it available anywhere?

Hey, in Futurama they only have two parallel universes to worry about. Must realy simplfy the bookkeeping.

And it's usually a safe bet that the quiet bookworm who's saving it for marriage will live.

:-)

Finding Sherlock Jr?

It often plays on the AMC cable network in the wee hours of the morning.  I don't know that it can be found in a schedule.

Since it's a short, it's probably available on a compilation video.  Exact sources are directly proportional to how far you are willing to go, or if you'd just rather wait for some fly-by-night company to put it out on DVD.  Best bet these days is just keep an eye out for it -- along with other Buster Keaton shorts - if interest continues.

regards,

Apostic

Sherlock Jr. was classified as one of Keaton's features, though not a full 90min long -- hell, yes, try and see it on any compilation video, but I bet your local public library has a copy on tape by itself.
I think most of the Keaton output is available in any vid. store that stocks classics.
Anyone hasn't seen this, don't deny yourself a real treat, along with Steamboat Bill Jr. or any other of Keaton's surreal comic inspiration --

MintMail aka Pyramid selling aka RIP-OFF. If I refer referrals to other referrals, who then refer those referrals to the aforementioned earlier referred referrals (which I have just referred to) then I make a dime? What have I been missing? All these years slaving over hot....whatevers, and it's as easy as that. Life. Doesn't it just dump on you from a great height?

Noticed the little bugger and deleted it before reading your post Steve.  Just so anyone doesn't think that Steve is having an episode, some clueless moron posted a whole little blurb (with links for his credit) about Mintmail.

Andrew

A job well done, Andrew. Do they try it often? If they're as blatant as that they surely can't last long.

We get something like that every now and then, but (of course) I read all the posts and make sure to delete bbs spam or duplicates.

Andrew