Badmovies.org Forum

One of the things that bug on this forum me is when people start going nuts because you misspelled something or didn't punctuate correctly.Listen this is not english class and I don't my writing graded.So big deal if I misspelled something, you people can figure it out, big deal if I didn't put two spaces after a period before beginning a new sentance, this is a discussion forum about B movies not a high school english class.Im not writing a poetry or a novel here, just disscusing movies.
Just deal with the fact some of us have no grammarical skills and stop bugging us about it.

Im not dogging you here Nick & I can't recall that I ever have.

Spell how you want to spell & use grammar how you want to, just know that most people will not read posts if they know that there's going to be tons of mispellings & bad grammar.

It's because of this medium that we all use here...text & writing.
Proper spelling, grammar & punctuation are very important when using this medium.
I find it strange that many people can get away with bad spelling & grammar when writing on a board like this or something else and most people don't seem to mind but if it were in person and vocalized incorrectly, it would be unacceptable.
Imagine talking to someone who mispronounced all their words & didn't use proper pausing while speaking to you...running all their sentences together & enunciating all the wrong syllables..
You would be like, "What the hell is wrong with them?"
You would not consider them an effective speaker and probably think they're dumb.

Spelling is very important to me though I usually don't dog someone about it on here like I've seen others do. (I think I have once or twice in the past)

Most importantly, and I know I'm not alone here but when I read something that was written by someone else and I see all kinds of grammar & spelling errors...to me that reflects on their intelligence.  
No I'm not calling anyone stupid...hell an individual could literally be a genius but the use of poor spelling & bad grammar even if the person is smart leads me to think that they're not the brightest person.  That's the impression that I get.
I guess it's just that spelling and grammar always came easy to me and I never understood why most people can't spell for s**t.  
Spelling & grammar to me are the most easy & basic things to grasp and when someone can't even do that...well you see what I'm getting at.

Again, I'm not calling anyone stupid here for bad grammar & mispellings...I'm just telling you how I see it.

It does matter to some people.



Post Edited (12-13-03 02:49)

I don't think anyone's ever lambasted you for your spelling, Nick.  There's a big difference between people typing in a more laid-back fashion because they're just chatting online and those raging morons who show up here every once in a while spouting off their retarded gibberish and insulting people when they themselves could obviously be outwitted by a sandwich.  Those idiots are the ones getting attacked, not the people who are members of this group and are simply laid back or lazy (not an insult, but hey, it happens).  So unless you have a problem with us ripping on people who deserve to be ripped on, don't worry about it.  None of us are after you.  But seriously, a guy corrected my spelling of 'kindergarten' to 'kinderGARDEN', while simultaneously writing a sentence that would send signals to a preschool teacher telling her one of her students was retarded and calling ME a moron.  Makes a strong case for genetic cleansing, let me tell you.

Brother R

I personnaly don't see the big deal.Its not that hard to fill in the holes in someones punctuation or to figure out what a misspelled word is.I find it more important to get the point of your message across rather than fiddiling over your grammar and spelling, obviously there should be some coherency to what you write, but im specificaly getting at is those who nit-pick over your grammar.
As for Ash's comment about intelligence, I don't think that my gramarical skills play any role in determining how smart I am.The determination of how smart someone is depends on what they say rather than how they say it.Case in point is Stephen Hawkins.You think any one thinks hes dumb because he speaks worse than the computer in Collosus:The Forbin Project? Hell no, dude is smarter than anyone on this forum.
Also I have been blasted many times for poor grammar.Remmeber my "Movies were people miss the point" post, a quarter of it was about my bad spelling and punctuation.
Maybe im just bitter, and probably am, but try and look at what we write rather than how its written.If im acting like the hot headed a***ole that I usually am than judge me for that, but if im actually trying to disscuss something rational, and important, don't miss the meaning of the post just because I didn't use a comma correctly.
Thats what im getting at.Plus im not just refering to my self in this reggard there have been many other who get a lashing about grammar when they are trying to say something important.

That's just 'Nazis'.  The apostrophe makes it possessive.

Either way, who needs to know the basics of written communication?

Nobody!  Especially in a text-based medium!

Nick, you seemed to have missed my point entirely.
You took my words as an insult when that was never my intention.

You wrote:
"I don't think that my gramarical skills play any role in determining how smart I am.The determination of how smart someone is depends on what they say rather than how they say it."

I disagree up to a point on that one.
What you're saying and how you're saying it are inevitably connected.

Since all of us here cannot see or hear you, the only way we know you is by what you've written and how you wrote it.
Trust me when I say that how you write is a direct reflection of you and if it is poor, that reflects on you also.

Since this medium we're using is writing, it is just the same as if we were speaking to one another face to face only we're writing instead of talking.

My point here that I'm trying to make is that the impression that I and many other people get when we read badly written text is that the person is a little dim even if that person is very bright & intelligent.

It's all about the impression...not if that individual is really dumb or not.
Understand?

Do you see what I'm getting at by stating that "HOW you're saying it" is just as important as "WHAT you're saying?"
This is a fact that they taught us in language & writing classes in grade school Nick.  
You should know that!

You also wrote:
"Maybe im just bitter, and probably am, but try and look at what
we write rather than how its written."

Again, that statement only makes me disagree and serves to reinforce my point.  
How we write is just as important as what is written.

Honestly to me, this sounds like a cry for help.
You mispell words & use bad grammar and are angry when people check you on it.
You stated so yourself.
Maybe you are angry at yourself for not being too good at it in the first place and wish you could be better at it.  
But who knows...I'm no psychologist and I can't answer that for you.  
Only you can.

Look man, I'm only trying to help you.
Good spelling, grammar & punctuation are essential life skills that should be honed to a razor sharp edge in my opinion.
Especially when it comes to the workplace.  
Potential employers DO look at these things and they DO judge you on them.
They ARE important!

You have to agree with me that it is in your best interests to develop them further and what is wrong with that?
Nothing at all my friend!

I do not want this to turn into an argument or flame war.
You will probably become angry upon reading this & I don't blame you.  
Nobody likes to have their shortcomings pointed out to them.  
My request to you is to not get angry.
Read what I have written to you as free and good advice and take it in stride.
Take it as a learning experience.

Remember, you brought this up and I'm trying to help you by telling you the truth.
And what I've written here is the truth.



Post Edited (12-13-03 06:56)

1)  "Kindergarten" is correct.  As far as I know, it's a German word, and if people are in fact using "kindergarden", it's a bastardization of the actual word and widely accepted because it's one of those things society accepts incorrectly because people are dumb.

2)  While no one should go out of their way to lambast anyone else for their spelling or grammar, one shouldn't make the case that their spelling/grammar is awful because they don't care.  That's just goddamned lazy.  Seriously, it's not like ANYONE'S post about "Plan 9 From Outer Space" is so important that they don't have time to run it through spellcheck or at least read it over prior to posting.  If you have something to say, you owe it to yourself and the people reading it to say it well.  Have some pride in your work.

3)  Note to (what seems like) EVERYONE:  "Your" is NOT an abbreviated form of the phrase "You are".  That would be "You're".  Please take time from your busy lives to throw in that apostrophe and the letter "e".  We'll all live better lives for it, I swear.

I'll step off my soapbox now.

Spellchecker?

What's a spellchecker?

Hehe!  Just kidding.

I've always been a master speller since I was young.

I can't recall ever using a spellchecker in my life.

EVER...

As far as I can see from the last two weeks, I'm the guilty one here.  I corrected wykednick's use of "A-R-E" when he meant "O-U-R".  It occurred several times in one e-mail, so it was clearly a misconception on spelling and not a typo.  My assumption was that wykednick maybe wasn't a native English speaker and I was only trying to be helpful.  The response I got was a shorter, more rude version of his post here - my response has been to do as wykednick asks and accept his spelling as is.

Just another observation - wykednick wants us to "just deal with" the fact that he cannot (or is not willing to) write properly.  I haven't got a problem with that at all.  Unfortunately, teachers and employers won't be as understanding.  One should make an attempt to differentiate between "Nazis" and people trying to help with something that can be fairly important to the course of one's life.

I've said my piece, I'll take off the jack boots and arm band now.
:)

So if I'm trying to create a master race made only of good spellers, which one am I?

Or me?
I'm always aware of my miss spellings. The faster i type, the more i bungle the process. In that case, speed kills the communication process.
I try....i try....
Too many flubs do hurt the idea. I've been corrected before. Sometimes harshly. (Remember Squishy, anyone?) But, i keep at it.
This board is fun. The gang is clever, and i gotta say, while i've never been outwitted by a sandwich, i've been put in my place by a realy nasty bowl of soup!
Beef and Chedder,actualy....
Anyhoo, calm out, and relax. Correct what you can, and the problims will go away. And remember, its what you say that counts....the method matters, as in regards letting us know what that what is.

i shore did glad i did done go to skool

No don't worry Ash I didn't take what you said to be offensive.I understood what you were getting at, but it bugs me when someone responds to a post by correcting a grammarical error rather than writing about the topic its self.I understand that this is a text based medium and it is important to have a coherent message, but to pick apart little grammarical errors I find to be rather anal.
I think a rather a large portion of this problem perhaps stems from age and education.From what I have read of your posts I get the impression that many of you are married and have children, which would make you around 30 to 40 years old.Im 22 and I have found that my past english teachers were rather lacking on teaching ability.It seems that they would rather talk about if Paul Mc'cartney really died in some accident,or watch a movie about a book we just read rather than have us write about it.
Also this is not some kind of a cry for help, I'm just a hot head, and like to b***h about things.Im not trying to be some overly comformist fascist, telling every one this is how they have to be, im sure some of you will dissagree about that, but all Im trying to say is chill out on correcting every little mistake.



Post Edited (12-13-03 15:04)

Now, now.  We prefer to be called the "Grammatically Correct."  A "Grammar Nazi" would have you hauled out into the street and shot over a typo.

Seriously, while I am probably the last one to talk about spelling and grammar, I think that a good grasp of both is important, not matter what the forum.   A good grasp of both a) makes what you're saying clearer to the reader, b) keeps you from looking ignorant when you are not, and c) I have no idea.  Really.  Drawing a blank.  I was having a It Came from Beneath the Sea moment and went a letter too far.  Please disregard.

Do the best you can when you can, don't let the nastier of the "Grammatically Correct", and remember the words of Mark Twain.  For I sure as hell can't.

Peace and good will to all, and to all a good night.

---

For the curious:  I mispelled "Grammar" and "Grammatically" the first time through.  Thank God for Spellcheck - now none of yew will no how dum I realy am.

---

Hey, nick of the wycked-type dude, you mean ME, don't you?

Actually, I am a spelling-fascist rather than a grammar-Nazi.  I can't ever remember being taught the rules of grammar, I just sort of absorbed them through the 1000's of books I've read.  The spelling thing, well, I apologise in advance for that; my anal-retentice gene is dominant, you see -

If you get your point across, then that's what matters.  People who judge your IQ on the basis of hastily-typed messages on a bulletin-board, deserve to - to - to swallow a triple barb fish-hook embedded in an ice-cube.

Amen Brotha! It doesn't bother me when anyone mispells a word on this forum. I just think it's really lame some of the threads that get the most replies. Example: "I hate nudity?" Who gives a s**t! They're probably just p**sed because they're so fat that they can't see their wee-wee. : ) Let's talk about movies people, not f**ked up opinions...

Hey there, bud, I know my phrase forms!  But I'm with you Evil, the "Your a really cool person" people bug me too.  Same with pretty much any internet slang, i.e. using 'u' as an abbreviated 'you'.  C'mon, it's two more goddamn letters, just type 'em.  Sorry Nick, I'm a writing major, I notice these things.

Brother R



Post Edited (12-14-03 02:20)

Y R U so uptite about internet slang?  :)
IMHO, this subject makes one LOL  :-(
ahh, whatever.
Personally, typos and illiteracy doesn't bother me, as I have read some of my own posts.  I type by the hunt and peck method, and sometimes I post before I proofread,  hence errors.  If you have a good opinion, who cares if you are Emily Dickenson?

<>

Hey, now. What doing being Police Woman have to do with this?

Hint to the under 35 crowd - you probably wont get this.

LOL!  But then I am over 35.

My two pennies on this thread:
1) If you are going to say something, make sure readers can understand it.  If you want me to spend time reading your thoughts, don't also make me spend time trying to figure out what you mean.  It is arrogant to say that you don't have to spend time making your (I'm not trying to single anyone out, just speaking generally) message understandable, but I have to spend the time reading the post as well as the brain power to decypher it.

2) You're (again, a general, generic you) also devaluing your message with bad grammar/spelling; it tells me that you don't think your message is all that important.  

3) I don't try to correct other's grammar/spelling, because I don't expect perfection in either area; I sometimes misspell, or screw up grammar on bbs because they're informal, but I do usually reread my posts, go back and edit-- even, at time, go to a dictionary.

In short, mistakes happen, I don't get too worked up about it, but do not accept "I've got poor English skills" as an excuse not to try and improve your writing.  How you say something does impact how others receive your message.

Damn, that's an awful lot for two cents.

PS.  It's is a contraction of it is.  The possessive its has no apostrophe.  That one is my pet peeve.

I'm under 35 and I got it.

Course, I'm not that much under 35...

---

I admit that I'm guilty of messing up the "it's" and "its" from time to time.

That and adding dots....like this....
Hehe!



Post Edited (12-14-03 15:15)

wickednick, I have thought carefully about this and have read the other posts.  Some of what I say will overlap with theirs.  In any case, PLEASE PLEASE don't take any of what I am about to say too personally, I simply want to make a point.

When I first started reading this board, one of the first posts I saw by you was you complaining about people complaining about your spelling/grammar.  As I read your posts, my 'first impression' of you was that you were a child, say about 13 or 14, and therefore I did not take MUCH of what you said very seriously, and I often skipped (or barely read) your posts.  I thought this for several reasons:

1.  You post with poor spelling ... which is acceptable TO A POINT (typos do happen, and I think we can all forgive them).  For me, it is hard to associate poor spelling/grammar with 'adult' where I usually equate adult with some level of education in this country.

2.  You get very defensive when others point out your mistakes, and say things like 'if you don't like it efff off.'  This heightened my supposition about your age because I associate maturity with an attitude of self improvement.  You know, how about 'thanks for pointing that out, I am TRYING to do better so please be patient with me while I learn to improve my English skills.'

3.  You made a comment like "this is not English class."  So what??  School is about teaching you LIFE'S skills ... your brain does not dump 1+1=2 just because you are not in math class anymore, right?  I taught college level Chemistry for years, and I always had students complain when I told them the first day of class 'spelling counts, and all answers must be in complete, grammatically correct sentences.'  Some complained, 'this is not English class,' but they generally did one of three things: (a) adopted (ie, grew up) to fit reality, (b) dropped the course after failing several tests because if they lacked the self discipline to spell and write correctly, they generally lacked the self discipline to learn chemistry, or (c) failed the course for similar reasons mentioned in (b).  I did not tolerate mental laziness in my classes, since mental laziness in a Chemistry Lab can get someone hurt.  Oh, and by the way, spelling DOES count: ethanol you can drink (in limited quantities, I hope) at a party, but ethanal will kill you.

The way you present yourself impacts how others will see you.  It's the old "think classy, you'll be classy" line from "Bull Durham."  When in grad school, I tried an experiment.  I let my hair grow very long, I quit shaving for about a year and generally looked like a scumbag.  I wanted to see if others would treat me like I was a scumbag or if they'd wait to see if I had something interesting to say as one would expect from a Ph.D. candidate from one of the nation's oldest and most prestigious institutions of higher learning.  Guess what I found out?  Give you a hint - my hair is clean cut (though not always short, it it generally fairly neat) and I hate going into public without shaving (if I am wearing a beard, it stays neatly trimmed).  That experiment was an important life's lesson for me.  The way you speak or write can cast similar reflections.

In fact, having seen pictures of me from those days, my wife has repeatedly told me that had she met me then, or if I still looked like that we when met, she would have never given me the time of day.  And that is not biggotry on her part - to her, I just looked scary.

Anyway, so now I have learned by your own comment that you are 22 years old, and I have to say, I was surprised.  The bottom line is, as others here have pointed out, you are only doing yourself a disservice.  You obviously have some interesting knowledge and things to say about movies (and I am sure other things as well), it sure would be a shame to dissuade others to read or listen.

In either case, I think it is fair to say that you are among friends here and any comment made (by a regular at least) is meant with the kindest intentions.  Good Luck, and hang in there...

Well I'll tell you guys im stubborn, and I still stick by what I said. I never complain about someones spelling or grammar errors when I see them, because I simply don't find it diffucult to figure these things out.I simply do not agree that how you write it has a huge impact on what is said.As long as it is coherent I don't care, I don't see the point in picking over some ones simple grammar errors when you really should be talking about the subject.
Also (and this is in no way is some kind of insult, or words of spite) I found it rather surprising that so many of you are so much older than me.But your opinions on my own maturity are probably because I tend to be highly sarcastic,and opiniated and that gives my posts a some what imature style.
Well in any case I think I have been having to talk to much about my self in this post.I didn't write it because I was feeling insulted, I was writing it because I was annoyed when someone had a good post and they get responses saying that they misspelled something or the didn't use a comma or apostrophe correctly, that is what bugs me.

Either way:

Writing is a very, very important life skill.  Why spend time being lazy about it when you can constantly be honing it to a razor edge?

There's a difference between making typos or occasionally spelling a word wrong and using improper grammer even after someone points it out.

I really don't see why someone should be called a nazi, just for having standards and expecting things to be done properly.

I find Nick's attitude to be very disturbing, because of the larger problem it represents. Writing standards are slipping, and not enough people seem to care. Either that, or their own language skills are so poor that they don't notice. I even see professional writers making silly mistakes and misusing words. For people who do care about things such as spelling, punctuation and sentence structure, it is unpleasant -- almost difficult -- to read, with the mistakes as jarring as potholes in a road.

I think Ash has said it beautifully. We are communicating in writing, and how we are understood depends entirely on how well we write. First impressions are also based on our writing. Yes, we can, in time, come to appreciate that someone is smarter than his writing would suggest (although with intelligence and education, there should be no excuse for poor language skills). Personally, I wouldn't be satisfied with being regarded as a foreigner, a child, or a little slow until people got to know me better.

I know some people have a tougher time with language than others. It's the attitude that makes the difference. I'm willing to cut someone a little slack if he's doing his best, but if I know he's just being sloppy, I'm offended.

It's a matter of responsibility. Someone is not willing to make the tiny effort to distinguish between "there," "their" and "they're," but instead considers it to be my responsibility to figure out which he meant to use. That p**ses me off.

It's not my job to mentally replace "grammarical" with "grammatical," or to consider all the possible meanings a sentence might have, depending on where I insert the punctuation someone else left out. Do it right (at least try to do it right) or don't do it at all.

I don't think that's too much to ask. It's no more than I expect of myself.



Post Edited (12-16-03 08:45)

I sit just about in the middle on this.  I read more often than post on this board, and I find that a well written message (i.e. - correct grammar, spelling, punctuation) is easier and more enjoyable to read.  But I don't think it's necessary to correct someone on their writing skills either.    As I go through the posts, I know which posters (postees? messaginarians?) have intelligent insight to share (in my opinion) and which don't, so those are the ones I read, regardless of grammar, spelling, etc.

Man, don't you hate those fencepost sitters?  The pragmatic types (read: wimps).  Sorry. . sorry. .

let's just continue with the movie talk, dangit!

Andy C wrote
I really don't see why someone should be called a nazi, just for having standards and expecting things to be done properly.

I was being sarcastic Andy, I know you are not bad people, and didn't mean to offend any one by the title.Its rather hard to express sarcasm in text so you usualy have to take what people write with a grain of salt.

Most of the posts I've seen that have spelling corrections have either been to p**s off the 'offending' person when in an arguement or when they are messing around.

I guess this is the sort of thing that gets up people's noses a bit.  My friend is a terrible writer and speller, even though he is extremley [and I mean EXTREMELY] well read, so it does bug me when he mispells a word that I know he should know.

That being said, this is probably my neatest post I have done.  I'm used to chatting online so I never really bothered about proper presentation, although I am a bit of a Nazi about it when it comes to writing when not online. [but only to myself, not others!]

From what I can gather, many of the people who post on this board probably read quite alot [thinking about 'Favourite Books posts'] So I'm guessing they are like me and get a little irritated when some grammatical errors occur, but like me, most move past that and read the damn post rather than nitpicking every detail.  I know that I probably spell some words different to Americans, and that might annoy some people, but as yet noone has publicly stoned me for it so it mustn't be that bad.

Presentation does help, I admit, but it's not essential, so hopefully everyone will respond to the merits of the content of the post rather than whether it is 'your' or 'you're' etc

I think the main point is one of attitude.  Mixing up "your" with "you're" or "their" with "they're" can be forgiven, or even ignored by some.

But, it bothers some, and they wish to point it out.  It is not to berate or offend or brow-beat the poster making the error.  I think (in most instances, anyway) the intention is to point out the error in the hopes that the error making poster will correct their usage in the future.

I (and others) fall into a third category.  It does bother me, but I don't tend to point it out.   What I do mind more than the errors themselves is that AFTER someone points out the difference between "your" and "you're" that others say 'ah, that doesn't matter, your just being picky.'

How we take criticism says as much about us as how we look, write, speak and act.  We either use that criticism (whether kindly or maliciously given) to better ourselves or we rebel against it.  Which of these choices leads to personal growth?

There is a correct and an incorrect way to write/speak.  Errors are one thing, but willful misuse AFTER being corrected is, in my opinion, an ugly degradation of our language.  And, again, it speaks volumes to one's character.

Let me give another example of this exact same thing.  On a Christian bbs a few months ago, the issue of illegally downloading music became a topic.  One person, a proclaimed Christian, admitted that they KNEW it was wrong and that it was hurting the artists and other people in the recording industry, but they would continue to do it anyway because they did not want to spend $15 for a CD.  Now I ask: what is your opinion of that person claiming to be a Christian??

I always try my best and proof read before I post  something. I'm really bad about leaving out letters from common words because I'm trying to type too fast.  I wouldn't  even try to correct  someones grammar, because I'm ususally not too sure of my own.

I can see getting bent out of shape about  someone making a big point out of correcting your spelling or grammar and not paying attention to the meaning of what you posted. This is a message board not an English class.

trek_geezer wrote:

> This is a message board not an English class.

I would think a message board would be an equally appropriate place for good communication.

I think someone has already mentioned that the purpose of English class is to give us language skills to use in day-to-day life. It is a means to an end, not an end in itself. The message board is one place where we can apply what we have learned.

I just can't accept the idea that spelling and grammar are only important when you're being graded on them specifically. It reminds me of some of my other classes in high school. Whenever we'd have a test in science, history or some other subject, somebody would inevitably ask if spelling counts, as though proper English could be ignored just because the test happened to be in another subject. The typical teacher's response: "Spelling always counts."

Words to live by. Or is it words by which to live?

Really, if we are all of the opinion that people should focus on what we have to say in our posts, and not on our spelling, it just makes sense that we try our best not to distract them with errors.

AndyC wrote:

>
> Really, if we are all of the opinion that people should focus
> on what we have to say in our posts, and not on our spelling,
> it just makes sense that we try our best not to distract them
> with errors.
>

Very good point.  I tend to either { (a) completely quit reading, (b) not take the poster's comments very seriously or (c) both a and b} a post with a lot of errors.

In other words, if you want others to value your opinions, give the reader the respect of at least TRYING to write correctly.  If you place a low value on your communication skills, others will also.

Sorry if that's not what some want to hear, but that is reality.

ulthar wrote:
> If you place a low value on your communication skills, others
> will also.

Exactly. If you really feel that you have something important to say, isn't it worth a little effort to say it well?

The impression I get from Nick is that good spelling and grammar are for the benefit of others. That is true, but we also owe it to ourselves to speak and write clearly. I believe someone has already drawn an analogy to personal hygeine.

Expecting others to overlook a shortcoming is very much like saying that it is too difficult to improve. It's admitting defeat. It shows a lack of self respect. Likewise, just ignoring it shows a lack of respect on the part of others. Really, while criticism is often taken as something that calls attention to our faults, it can also be regarded as a show of faith that we can do better.

To give an example, there is a program at our church that provides food and shelter for the homeless in winter. Some of the people involved are so concerned with making everyone feel comfortable and welcome, that they are reluctant to set boundaries and enforce rules. To me, that shows a lack of respect. If we don't believe someone can be expected not to p**s against a wall, then we don't consider him to be much more than an animal. By correcting mistakes (nicely and constructively), we show respect, and by doing things properly, we show self respect.

What self-respecting person would say "my English is terrible, and there is no way I'm ever going to improve it, so you'd better just pretend it's OK?" That seems to be what Nick has told us.

I don't think I could handle knowing that people were making allowances for me. I would much prefer polite criticism, because it shows that people believe I can do better.



Post Edited (12-16-03 21:25)

My belief is that if I go around pointing out your spelling/grammarical/factual errors, then you are completely justified in going around pointing out mine.  Fair is as fair does, after all.

Which is why I try to be polite and good natured.

---

Cullen wrote:

> My belief is that if I go around pointing out your
> spelling/grammarical/factual errors, then you are completely
> justified in going around pointing out mine.  Fair is as fair
> does, after all.
>
> Which is why I try to be polite and good natured.
>

That's part of the point.  If I am consistently spelling a particular word incorrectly or inappropriately using an apostrophe or whatever, I WANT someone to point it out to me.  Note that I'm not talking about every little typo that appears - only consistent errors.

I have emailed several webmasters pointing out spelling errors on their web sites because I thought they would want to know.  In each case, I was polite.  In each case, they were so appreciative that the error was caught.

Other people here have said it considerably better than I ever could... just because you're not in school anymore, doesn't mean the correct usage of English doesn't matter anymore.

I am a bit of a Nazi regarding some things in English- anyone who uses "U" or "R" instead of "YOU" or "ARE" should be shot without trial, IMO (ditto anyone who communicates in l33t sp43k...)

The "It's/Its" thing really doesn't bother me any more. I used to point it out to people in an effort o help them, but I got bombarded with posts along the lines of "OMG u r so f*kn g4y!!!!1111" that I just gave up in the end.

"Your/You're" does bother me. They're different words representing different concepts entirely, yet people still get them very mixed up.

In many ways, I feel that saying "I'm bad at communicating in the language of the country I live in, so you'll all have to deal with it" is akin to saying "Well, I'm a really bad driver, but that's your problem since it doesn't bother me."

Or, to put it another way, would you buy a Newspaper or a book full of l33t sp34k, spelling mistakes, TXT abbreviations, and awful grammar? I doubt it very much.

Having said all that, I'm not going to hold it against someone I know, only society in general...

I can remember when I was an obnoxious young man and constantly corrected people on just about everything. Then I grew up.

Sometimes people on a message board are in a hurry or maybe just don't type so well. Give them the benefit of the doubt. I know a lot of very bright people who can't  spell  worth anything.  This does not invalidate the fact that they have high intelligence, nor does it mean that their opinions are worthless because they have poor sentence structure.  It just means that  they aren't  wired for writing.  

I often see posts that irritate me because of bad spelling, incomprehensible sentences, or downright stupid opinions.  I've just curbed my natural tendencies to straighten people out , at least until they really p**s me off.

I come here for the enjoyment of seeing other peoples opinions on something I enjoy, movies.  I really could care less what the posts look like as long as I can understand the point the person is trying to make.

trek_geezer wrote:

> they aren't  wired for writing.  

That's just making excuses. Any smart person can learn to write if they care enough to do it, and having errors corrected is a good way to learn.

Nobody here is talking about constant nitpicking of typos or minor slipups, or suggesting that everything needs to be written formally. However, if someone is consistently making a mistake, it is to his own benefit that someone else respectfully points it out.

The difference is whether it's done to deride, tease or otherwise discredit a poster, or simply to offer some help. The latter is best done off the board, in a private email. Even so, I find that when it's done with malice (not by me), it's often because someone was asking for it by being just a little too arrogant. I think it's fair to say that if you hold yourself up as smarter than others, your writing should be impeccable.

AndyC has said everything I would've said (and probably better) so I'll just add a few random tidbits for whatever they're worth:

To repeat:  This is not about the occasional misspelled word or missing capital letter.  We all do that.  All of us.  Not a big deal.

This is about written communication -- done in the clearest and most efficient way possible.  Rules of grammar are not medieval torture devices created by 2nd-grade teachers to ruin the lives of happy-go-lucky kids (it just seems like that in old Jean Shepherd stories).  They promote clarity of expression, which, after all, is what we're all going for, isn't it?

I rarely make age assumptions (because I'm never right); but if I see a post that's run-on and confusing, I just won't read it;  really I can't -- because I do most of my reading & posting in off moments at work and I just don't have the time -- or the interest -- to sit and unravel someone else's mess.  It's not my job (as someone else said just above).

Really what it comes down to is this:  if we're not worth your taking the time to clean up and proof your post, why are you worth us taking the time to figure it out?

(And of course these are all rhetorical "yous" -- it's not about wyckednick or any other individual here.)

One last take on the subject -- my wife, one of the smartest people I know, is extremely dyslexic -- to the point where reading (which she loves to do) causes headaches from the effort.  Needless to say, when she writes her first drafts are, shall we say, extremely fanciful -- but she works her butt off to make it right -- because she doesn't want anyone mistaking an organic problem for stupidity or illiteracy.  

I'm just saying -- if she can make the effort when she's got all that against her, it's little enough for the rest of us to do.

"Uneducatedness"

If that's not a word, it should be.  Love it!

Hee.

It started out innocently enough, Wyckednick just wanted people to stop being so critical over other peoples grammar, so a post was created to address this issue.But soon it started growing and growing at a horrifying rate.Fed by the rambling of dozens of posters it became bigger and more powerful.If not stoped it will become the most terrifying thing on the internet, consuming all other posts until there is nothing left.
Yes, YES MY BEAST GO OUT AND DESTROY. LET THERE BE NOTHING LEFT!MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Ya just never know what'll catch people's fancies.

Hey, at least it's got more responses than that stupid I Hate Nudity thread.  This makes for a slightly more intelligent conversation than "Unnnn...boobies baaad"

Brother R

When you invoke the wrath of Godwin's Law on yourself right  in the thread's title, what do you expect?

Please let this damned post die.

trek_geezer wrote:

> Please let this damned post die.
>

Why?? To tell you the truth, I have enjoyed this thread for the following reason:  I have learned more about the people on this forum from this thread than any other.  This discussion has been a respectful exchange of ideas on what is an apparently interesting subject: the significance of forums as a legitimate form of communication.

This thread has not stopped anyone from posting on Movies (Bad or Otherwise), so what's the harm?

Besides, once it dies, then it'll become Undead.  And that's much harder to kill.

It's obviously something a lot of people care deeply about, and I find that encouraging. Hate to say it, but this has been the most stimulating thread to come along in a while. I've really been enjoying it.

If only there had been some sign that our 'rambling' had been taken to heart. Still, aside from a couple of typos and missing commas, Nick's latest post is very well written.

I'm not here to dampen ones pursuit of perfection, but I was always curious about those who made up English grammer, spelling, etc. Who determines the right and wrong of a way of doing things that will reflect or lead to an idea of sorts.

Obviously it's a culmination of things. A language must have rules by which all can understand. I'm not voting against a proper post, but I've always disliked law, business rules, and all man made rules that stand in the way of a true goal.

I will try to proof read my post for now on : ) . Wow, Fifty hits on this post.

...so much as guidelines.  Sometimes they can be broken to prove a point or to express an idea clearer.

52 and counting.  Very interesting thread, I think.

ah wonner eff'n typin' redneck'd git a rise outta ennybody. Brad grammar kin be fun, try th' site thet will translate enny website into th' dialeck of yer choice http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi



Post Edited (12-19-03 20:44)

If  you really want to write correctly get yourself a good dictionary and  Strunk's  'The  Elements of Style'.  Strunk's book is the grammar bible for  writers.  

I always have a dictionary handy . Spell checkers are okay, but  only the use of a dictionary can insure you using the right word. English is complex  with words pronounced the same and spelled differently  or vice versa.

My only problem is computer keyboards. I've got to be quick on the backspace key.

>>Besides, once it dies, then it'll become Undead. And that's much harder to kill.

We all know perfectly well that the best way to kill the Undead is with a 12 gauge blast to the head. Or a Stake. Or Silver Bullets. Or...

>http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi

Damn, no valley girl option!

JohnL wrote:

> >http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi
>
> Damn, no valley girl option!

Fer sure.