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I watched "Trainspotting" recently with a friend.

I've seen it about a hundred times while it was his first viewing.

He has kids & I do not.

He absolutely refused to watch the rest of the movie after baby Dawn dies in her crib.  
If you've seen it then you know the scene.
The characters are so wasted on heroin for God knows how long that their neglect of the child inevitably leads to it's death in its crib.

My friend stated that he hated the entire film based solely on that single scene....even though he didn't finish watching all of it.
I chastised him for being closed minded and being too presumptious....which he very much is on a number of issues.
I tried to explain that the film was about more than just that...if he'd only watch further.
He blatantly rejected.

I became irritated at his subsequent rantings for the next few minutes about why they would show something like that in a film.
I argued in favor of the film's gritty, hardcore realism about difficult life and heroin addiction but he would have none of it.
He left and I haven't heard from him since and that was 3 days ago.

I simply cannot understand his reaction.....even if I had children I would not react in such a manner as he did.

Have you or anyone you know hated an entire film solely because of one single scene?



Post Edited (01-21-04 07:30)

I just saw Trainspotting for the first time about three months ago.  At the time my daughter was six months old, so the dead baby scene did hit me extremely hard.  I did cry at that scene being as it was so harsh.

But I do thank any movie that can make you feel such extreme emotions.  Overall I loved the film.

I used to love the movie Se7en. Great acting, awesome scripting, and the ending totally blew me away. I couldn't watch this movie enough.
One of my friends behaved very similar to your buddy, ASH. He visited me when I was watching it and he said if I kept watching he'd have to leave. His son was 5 at the time, home with his mom. When I asked him why, it's such an awesome movie! His response was, "When you have kids, you'll understand."

Ever since my daughter was born, I can't watch this movie anymore. I know there are evil people like that in the world, and the very idea of killing a pregnant woman DISGUSTS me..

It doesn't necessarily mean I "hate" this film for a particular scene, it means that sometimes my own personal convictions get unsettled by graphic scenes in some movies. Some people are just more verbal about it than others.

Signs.  The last two minutes destroy an otherwise frightening, remarkably claustrophobic film.  It's as if someone else took over during the last three minutes.  They show you the alien.  The musical score becomes intrusive and overpowering.  Worst of all, they dump a truckload of indefensible religious nonsense on you.  What went wrong?

what a concidence, before reading this thread I just got finished replying on another about disturbing movies and i just brought that up about the baby. Not only it dying but him having hallucinations of it on the ceiling is very disturbing.  I'm not easily disturbed by movies and while it does provide a shock value for the addiction issue..i can't view it



Post Edited (01-10-04 10:56)

I'm not going to narrow it down to a single movie, but if  there is a romantic scene (not banging like animals) in the middle of a good slasher or monster film or at the end, it kills it for me.

For reasons that are difficult (if not impossible) to explain, I can no longer (within the past few years) watch any scene involving suicide by gunshot to the head.  But that is not to say that necessarily those scenes ruin an entire movie for me, but the discomfort factor is just too much to be entertained by it.

For me..it was probably that scene in T3 when the now extremely whiney John Connor tells us that his mother Sara Connor died of....Luekemia!!!!! It just blew me away that after T1 and T2 show the extreme struggle that she went thru fighting and fighting and more fighting to save her son from the various Terminators that she would end up drooping dead...from a disease! What a total letdown!

Pretty much any movie that introduces a kid half way through the movie just so the main charector can show his soft side.

I really liked Trainspotting, but I first saw it before I had any kids.  I admit that babies dying tends to kill any movie for me now.  But it can also make some movies more powerful for me.  Monster's Ball hit me like a freight train - Halle Berry deserved that Oscar.  

I don't like watching Pet Cemetary or Trainspotting now.

I have a friend who once cheated on his wife and they reconciled.  He says the hardest part for him - five years later - is that whenever he and his wife are watching a TV show or movie in which infidelity occurs there's just this tangible discomfort in the air.  That must render like 1/3 of all entertainment uncomfortable for him.

ASHTHECAT wrote:

> I simply cannot understand his reaction.....even if I had
> children I would not react in such a manner as he did.
>
> Have you or anyone you know hated an entire film solely because
> of one single scene?
>

Spoken like someone who doesn't have kids.  I just want to know - how do you know how much something will bother you after you have kids?  You have absolutely no fame of reference, and if you don't think having kids will change you that much, well, you're in for a shock.

I hated Trainspotting.  I was somewhere in the middle - a little while after the filtiest toilet in scotland - when I started singing "This is the film that never ends/It just goes on and on my friends..."  I hated all the characters and hoped they would die.  Not the least of which because their addiction was more important to them than the life of an infant.  It disgusted me to the point that, for me, the only good ending for that movie would be for all the characters to dies of dehydration and malnutrition.  If they had all OD'ed, that might have saved the film for me.  Instead, they continue to be the completely worthless scum they are.

Anyone who lets their child starve to death should be shot in the gut and left to bleed to death.  I give a rosy red rat's ass if they were strung out on H or not.

In short, I hated Trainspotting.  It wasn't just that one scene, but that one scene went a long way.

As for a movie that was ruined by a single scene, I put forth the supposed horror classic Susperia.  Maggots fall out of the celing into the girls hair, and yet she still makes no attmpt to leave the school.  Just couldn't watch after that.

Well, I have a weak stomach, so any depiction of vomiting will totally ruin a movie for me. In particular, I'm thinking of The Witches of Eastwick and Monty Python's The Meaning of Life. I can't even look at the screen during those particular scenes.

Grumpy Guy, you and my friend who also hated this film should get together and have a tea party or something.

I say again.....even though I do not have children or even if I did...I look at this film  and will continue to look at it with an OPEN MIND!

You, like my friend allowed your judgement & fairness to be clouded by a single scene or scenes...which was what I was getting at all along here on this thread.

Either way, when I do eventually have children I know that I will still be able to view a film like Trainspotting with an OPEN MIND.
The birth of my offspring will not influence my opinions and DO NOT presume to tell me otherwise.
You don't know me.

Obviously, the birth of your offspring have influenced yours.
Sorry to hear that.

Not everyone changes when they have kids.
Am I wrong?
No I am not.  
And you know it.



Post Edited (01-23-04 04:38)

ASHTHECAT wrote:

> The birth of my offspring will not influence my opinions and DO
> NOT presume to tell me otherwise.
> You don't know me.
>
> Obviously, the birth of your offspring have influenced yours.
> Sorry to hear that.
>
> Not everyone changes when they have kids.
> Am I wrong?
> No I am not.  
> And you know it.
>

Sorry, ASHTHECAT my friend, but you are saddly mistaken if you think having children will not influence your opinions.  Or, let me put it this way.  I HOPE you are mistaken, because if you are correct, that would de facto imply that your kids mean nothing to you.

Having a child changes you in ways you cannot imagine, at all, before that time comes.  My daughter is about a year and half, so I have been seeing/feeling these changes acutely.  If you'd like another opinion, ask anyone else on the board with kids.  Specifically, ask Velvet Brother; I bet he can see some changes already.

Does this mean you won't like Trainspotting anymore?  I don't know.  But to assume that you WILL just because you like it now is, in a word, ignorant.  You are talking about something WAY out of your experience like it is a certainty to you.  Just like I did 2 years ago, and just like probably everyone else on the board did before their kids were born.

Kids change open/closed mind?  I fail to see how someone not wanting to visualize the death of a child, when it is easy to recall those fears when late at night you could not hear your own child breathing, or when your child fell over, hit her head and did NOT cry, etc closed minded.  I see it simply as a person deciding what crap they want to fill their mind with, and THAT is what having kids changes.

If you have seen this movie a hundred times, you are probably just immune to it's ugliness.  To your friend, he was experiencing something new, from a completely different frame of reference.  Sorry, man, but I think it is a bit harsh to judge him as closed minded or whatever, just because he did not like a movie you happen to like (for whatever reason).

Let me give some real life perspective on this.  In my last job, I 'got' to be around numerous dead children.  I got to go to the autopsies of babies.  Suicides of ten year olds...yep-been there, done that.  For real, not special effects.  I got to be around parents being told their kid was dead.  I did not have a child at that time, but some of my coworkers did.  Truthfully, I did not see why having a kid would effect my ability to do my job.  How wrong I was.  I could do that job again, if I had to.  But I am different.

Now, my job is different, but as a Pediatrician in a major hospital, my wife is right in the middle of it.  She deals daily with kids with terminal diseases, kids hurt in stupid stunts, kids hurt be the stupidity of others, kids whose time has just come for reasons humans don't understand.  Sometimes, she just comes home and hugs our daughter.  Now she gets to be the one to tell parents their child has died, or will never recover, or that the parent should consider 'unplugging' the life support.  Dude, until you HAVE kids of your own, you just do not know what that bond is like and how it can effect you in all kinds of situations.

Having a kid changes you in ways spiritual, emotional and physical that you just simply cannot imagine, and 'we' cannot describe to you.  I no longer care for PET SEMETARY, and I would not like TRAINSPOTTING if that scene is that disturbing.  In your case, the change MAY NOT effect what movies you watch, but don't fool yourself; it just might.



Post Edited (01-23-04 11:27)

Well, I guess we all hate some scenes from films. One scene that I can recall disliking was the whole butt rape scene from "Deliverance." I absaloutely love the film except for that part. "Squeal like a pig!" "Squeal like a pig!!!" ; )

I feel sorry for the actor that had to play that part. Which reminds me... I also can't stand the BR scene from Pulp Fiction but I still think it's a bad Mutha f**ki'n movie.

I'm an old man.
Never had kids, likely never will.
Pet Cemetary, and films like that....i won't bother with.
Low tolerance for gore, and not big on cruel characters. Hannibal the Cannibal can suck on a claymore, far as i'm concirned.
Read the ending of Seven....wont be watching it.

The less real, and possable monster, the more i can handle it. Godzilla, anyone?

I know my own limets. I can't judge for others...but i, even i, do agree with Ulthar and the Grump. I want a movie to get me away from the real world for a while....not to let me wollow in it.

ASHTHECAT wrote:

> Grumpy Guy, you and my friend who also hated this film should
> get together and have a tea party or something.
>
> I say again.....even though I do not have children or even if I
> did...I look at this film  and will continue to look at it with
> an OPEN MIND!
>
> You, like my friend allowed your judgement & fairness to be
> clouded by a single scene or scenes...which was what I was
> getting at all along here on this thread.
>
> Either way, when I do eventually have children I know that I
> will still be able to view a film like Trainspotting with an
> OPEN MIND.
> The birth of my offspring will not influence my opinions and DO
> NOT presume to tell me otherwise.
> You don't know me.
>
> Obviously, the birth of your offspring have influenced yours.
> Sorry to hear that.
>
> Not everyone changes when they have kids.
> Am I wrong?
> No I am not.  
> And you know it.
>

You know, normally  a personal attack like this would send me on the warpath.  There would be a lot of "How dare you" type comments.  I would call a few names, perhaps.

But, instead, your post makes me sad.  Very, very sad.  Sick in the heart, if you will.

I'm sorry you think that any children you might have will have so little impact on you.  I'm sorry that you think that creating a life with someone won't change how you view the world.  I'm sorry that you are so close-minded that you can't see how it could affect someone else.

For the record, I don't have any kids.  My friends do, and my girlfriend does, and I've seen how their children affect them.  I'm wise enough - even at the young age of 28 - to be able to see that you can't have children of your own without having your entire world-view changed.

Your open hostility to people who do not share your views disturbs me, ASH.  You went off like this once before on a rant about Japanese cinema and anime.  Strangely, that thread vanished from the forum.  Still, it showed, as this one does, that the only thing you're open-minded about is your movie-viewing.  Other people's belief ar so much garbage to you.  You show no resect for the beliefs and feelings of others.  That's CLOSE-MINDED.

I regret to say, ASH, that you and I will probably never be friends.    I, as a rule, don't associate with people who call me foolish, or close-minded, or what have you just because they don't agree.

I would, at this point, try to explain to you the reasons why I hate Trainspotting.  The baby-death scene was only part of it.  However, since you seem to regard anyone who does not agree with you as foolish or close-minded, I'm not going to bother.  It's not worth my time, and I have better things to do that listen to you insult me.

I agree with you Flangepart... Sometimes films about reality can get a little ridiculous. I have an open mind though and I do enjoy VARIETY. It's what adds the spice to life. ; ) Give me a Sc-Fi, Slasher, Horror, Fantasy, Drama, Comedy, or Chick Flick anyday.

Hey Ash, how do you feel about watching scenes of fatal motorcycle accidents?

You know JohnL....
If you said that to me and we were in the same room...I would lunge at you and you'd get the hardest right hook you ever took in your life.
No joke.
It would probably take several people to pry me off of you.

You do not joke about s**t like my brother dying in the last 6 months in a motorcycle accident...even if you were trying to make some sort of ridiculous point here.

That was WAY below the belt you cowardly motherf**ker.

Until you apologize for that bulls**t remark I will never respect you and will single you out for personal attacks on ANYTHING you write.
And you well know that I am NEVER at a loss for words.

As far as I'm concerned, you are the lowest common denominator here on this board right now.



Post Edited (01-24-04 04:05)

Hey Ash, I don't believe JohnL question was ment to be any kind of sarcastict remark, just a question about if you have trouble watching such scenes.
It was a question in bad taste though, and he should not have asked it. You should know better JohnL.

>Until you apologize for that bulls**t remark I will never respect you and will single
>you out for personal attacks on ANYTHING you write.
>And you well know that I am NEVER at a loss for words.

I'm sorry. I realize now that it was in really bad taste and I should have known better, but I wasn't thinking. I've often been accused of not having too much common sense and sometimes I post without thinking...



Post Edited (01-24-04 04:53)

Too late dude.

I already put you on display on a new thread.

Your comment deserves to be seen by EVERYONE here.

I want to see what others have to say.

I told you that I am NEVER at a loss for words and now you're going to find out first-hand what I meant by that.



Post Edited (01-24-04 05:06)

Holy crap! I'm sure glad I missed this thread.

Ash, I feel terrible that JohnL made that RUDE comment regarding your bother. It p**sed me off as well and I wouldn't blame you if you slugged him either. TOTALLY UNCOOL... : (

JohnL, what the f**k were you thinki'n ya jackass?!  Have you ever lost someone dear to you? Do you know the pain and mourning that one goes through from losing a brother?! If I were in the rooom when you said that, I  would have split your nuts off the side of your face!!!

Hope people will just let this go.   I was going to not say anything since it seemed to have blown over but the last post makes it seem like it might not.  

I have to say, this kind of the thing is the main reason I think it's a bad idea to share personal stuff on the Internet.  I just don't think it's appropriate to share these kinds of things with strangers, in a forum that isn't designed for that purpose.  I haven't entered into any kind of social contract with anyone here to discuss anything other than bad movies.   I know we all do it, I've done it too like when I got married back in August, but when it's something like a death of a family member it makes me uncomfortable.  This is a forum about bad movies, not bereavement.        

I know people are going to jump down my throat, but I felt like it needed to be said.  I've lost family members too, and at the time I did share that online in the forums where I was hanging out, but if I could go back I would not do that again.

I agree....this thread disintegrated into utter bulls**t.

Let's just drop it and move on.

Please.

jmc, I understand your comment and I do agree to a point.  I would offer, however, that I think in a way we do make friendships with folks on the forums we frequent and there is a STRONG desire to share ups and downs with friends.

With this medium, though, it is tough...you are reading just words, no facial expression, no eye contact.  It is very easy to misunderstand what someone has typed, or whatever.

On another board I frequent, there was a recent thread about thinking someone is a butthole on the forum because they are agumentative, then meeting them and thinking 'wow, that dude is really, really nice.'

In the end, disagreements do happen, and hopefully they get patched up.  Just like real friendships and just like real families.  I would be surprised if the social dynamics on a forum were really THAT different than 'real life' relationships.

Post Edited (01-25-04 00:42)

Trainspoting is a film that is not meant to make you "like the charecters" or think their "cool" so why would you be so upset at the baby scene? its meant to show that nothing is more important to them in life than H and that includes the life of a child. if anything that scene is meant to prove that the charecters are scum, pure scum. having children should not change the message of a movie as powerfull as trainspottting. without films like this, people simply would not know how unaware adddicts are of the world and normal life around them. if you say you know alot about film and then insist on not watching the rest of a beautiful movie such as trainspotting then your kidding yourself.

"TO HE WORKSHEAD........Groovy."

faggots

ashcampbell wrote:

> without films like this, people simply would not know how
> unaware adddicts are of the world and normal life around them.
> if you say you know alot about film and then insist on not
> watching the rest of a beautiful movie such as trainspotting
> then your kidding yourself.
>

I for one don't need movies to tell me about real life.  I tend to think movies are not REAL life, whether about addicts, missions to mars, or killer zombies that die when you shoot 'em in the head.

Why is so hard to accept that some people don't want to be disturbed by graphic or otherwise painful scenes in a movie?  It's the old "you like what you like, I'll like what I like" kind of deal.  Personally, I cannot stand movies that try to 'make me think' because quite frankly, they are usually dumb compared to my real experiences.

What others watch is their busness.
I do my thing, ya'll do yours.
Please don't let differing opinions split us up.
And, Uh, JohnL....yeah. Not a good move dude. At least, if you'd cooled down and thought about it, ya could have worded it more....tactfully.
Not sure exactly how, mind you......

>And, Uh, JohnL....yeah. Not a good move dude. At least, if you'd cooled down
>and thought about it, ya could have worded it more....tactfully.

Yeah, like I said, I wasn't thinking...



Post Edited (01-26-04 12:47)

ashcampbell wrote:

> Trainspoting is a film that is not meant to make you "like the
> charecters" or think their "cool" so why would you be so upset
> at the baby scene? its meant to show that nothing is more
> important to them in life than H and that includes the life of
> a child. if anything that scene is meant to prove that the
> charecters are scum, pure scum. having children should not
> change the message of a movie as powerfull as trainspottting.
> without films like this, people simply would not know how
> unaware adddicts are of the world and normal life around them.
> if you say you know alot about film and then insist on not
> watching the rest of a beautiful movie such as trainspotting
> then your kidding yourself.
>
> "TO HE WORKSHEAD........Groovy."

*sigh*
Okay, I think I will make one last comment, and then, if everyone could help me with this, we can let this thread die.

I DID watch the whole movie.  TWICE.  Yes, I hated it the first time but, because people keep calling it brilliant, I gave it a second chance.

I cannot argue that the film is well-made.  I can't even argue that it is well acted.  What I can argue is that it holds any redeeming quailty what so ever.  Since lacking in socially redeeming value is, quite literally, the definition of obsenity, that is what I think Trainspotting is.  To me, it is an obsenity.

I guess it could be argued that it shows the drug subculture for what it really is - an ugly and horrible thing.  My question is this:  What made anyone think I wanted to spend five minutes with the scuzziest people ever to walk the earth, let alone an hour and a half?

For that matter, why does anyone else?

Just because a film covers disturbing subject matter does not make it good, interesting, or "powerful."  There's nothing powerful about this film, really.  Powerful indicates that some big point is made.  What was the point other than "these people are the scum of the universe"?  Was the point, maybe, I dunno, "don't do drugs"?  Well, if that's the case, maybe Nancy Regan liked it, but I sure as hell didn't.

I hate this movie because I hate every character in it.  I find little humor in addiction.  Now, at this stage in my life, I have very valid personal reasons why the supposed "comedy" of this film only served to offend me.  The funny thing is, before I had these personal reasons, it still offended me.

Finally, there's nothing, i repeat, NOTHING "beautiful" about this film.  I can accept people liking it.  I can accept people hailing it as great.  But beauty never makes an appearance here.  This film is unmistakably ugly.  If the movie has a point, that's it - that there's no beauty in the life of a smack addict.  All is ugliness.  All is horror.

If you find beauty in the lives of these drug-slaves, you might want to consider re-evaluating your definition of beauty.

And, by the way, "your" is the posessive form of you.  "You're" is the contraction of "you" and "are".  As a side note, sentences begin with capital letters.  Sorry - that's just the grammar nazi within me.  It usually only shows up any more when someone's p**sed me off.

yeah i saw trainspotting when ashcampbell came over & showed me it, he then showed me his butt-beef with extra butt cheese & butt smegma!

i think i love saul-bruce's mum......scratch faced!