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Not really, but that's what the idiot behind me seems to think. Well, he's not directly behind me, he's a couple of doors over. Of course, these are small suburban back yards, so he's really close. I should mention that I can tolerate listening to loud conversations, occasional parties and music from various neighbours at night, but I have my limits.

For two nights in a row, this guy has been lighting off fireworks in his back yard at around 10:30pm. On both nights, my wife and I went to bed around 10pm. So, we're awakened by a loud bang, and our bedroom is bathed in bright green light. The shivering dogs jumped on top of us about the same time the burnt sulfur smell drifted in. The really amazing thing is there are several houses closer to this guy than I am. His back yard also appears to be at least partly overhung with trees. I couldn't imagine doing that in such a confined space, especially when it isn't even a holiday when people at least expect it. Stupider still, there is a huge schoolyard and soccer fields a short walk away.

I let it go the first night, figuring it was a one-time thing. When it started up again last night, I stuck my head out the window and let him have it. This guy said he only had a few more, and he'd be done. At this point, I was already exhausted - I'd been up since before 6 that morning, working on a Habitat for Humanity house (for the third day), and came straight home to go out for a wedding reception for people I barely know. I was tired and achy, and he was missing the point. I told him he was done now, and asked him what he was thinking, setting off fireworks so close to people's houses.

Would you believe that he then asked me to stop bothering him? I was bothering him! He then told me that he doesn't complain when I mow my lawn at 5am, which nobody in the neighbourhood does. At this point, I think I told him he was full of s**t.

After a bit of this, his wife decides to chime in, essentially blaming me for going to bed too early.

Finally, this guy pretty much orders me to go back to bed and he'd do what he wanted. He hoped I was happy for spoiling his family's fun, and he was going to come and see me in the morning (threats and everything). I told him to perform a physically impossible act. I never heard another firework, and I have yet to see him at my door. He'll get a surprise if he comes, since I'm about twice his size, but I'm sure it was all hot air.

Imagine how totally inconsiderate that is. It's all about his fun. Just sickens me. And he's throwing it at me that he has three kids there, and I've spoiled their evening. Why doesn't he set a better example, handling fireworks more responsibly and thinking of his neighbours. He might also consider at least taking some responsibility for doing something stupid, instead of blaming me for being bothered by it, or hiding behind his kids.

I don't know. Maybe I could have been more diplomatic, but this guy's initial reaction just p**sed me off. Selfish, thoughtless, and indignant that I would dare to criticize him. Not even an insincere 'sorry' just annoyance. Everything that is wrong with people today.

Am I out of line on this one?

I feel for you, I've had to put up with idiots like this my  self.  About ten years ago we moved  near Houston, TX  into a small subdivision that was just one street.  It was in what they call the country there. The lots were about 1/3 acre so the houses were not really close together. Everyones back yard was next to a large tract of woods  which created a sort of alleyway that carried any kind of noise to all your neighbors.

Our neighbor was a Houston cop. He owned two Chows, one of which had to finally be put down after attacking a child.  He also liked to setup a target next to the woods and then stand in the street in front of the house and  take target practice with his .357 magnum pistol.  I called the Sheriffs department and they said they couldn't do anything about it  unless a bullet hit something or someone on my property.  This jackass would also shoot fireworks on New Year and the fourth of July on the street right in front of  his house until way into the wee hours of the morning.

Needless to say this made us hate the place more than we already did.  I can't figure out why  people want to be so damned inconsiderate.  I guess it just goes along with the general stupidity you see out there in public all the time nowadays.

Nope.  If you want to do whatever you want, whenever, go live in the country.  Is there a neighborhood association that has specific rules on noise and/or fireworks; or local city/county ordinances?

I go to bed by 10:30 pm also, it isn't too early even on Friday or Saturday nights, this is real life, not  college, and different people have different schedules.  Yeah, fireworks on the Fourth, or New Years, or Memorial Day (though really, it shouldn't be a celebratory occasion) is fine, but it can't be a license to run loose for a bunch of days.  Part of being a good neighbor is recognizing you have neighbors and thus you don't get to do everything you want.

A lot of places ban fireworks within the city limits---I suggest seeing if your area does this, and if so, call the cops next time.  I can't remember the cutoff time, but after a certain hour people can also be charged with disturbing the peace if they're so loud as to bother their neighbors.

I don't think you were out of line. The best way to have handled was with a calmer edge but as you said you were EXHAUSTED so you're not at fault for being so p**sed off. But if you did talk to him a bit more diplomaticly and told him to stop it a few times and he persitedit then that's the time to get REALLY p**sed off at him. Geez that guy's an a***ole.

yeah i know how you feel andy. i live in apartment and the people down below have bad habits of playing thier music  REALLY loud.  i dont mind really but the time and day   they do it like  tuesday at 2am. i remember one time they came up and told me thier were going to have a party so i was like "fine i dont mind". i got  my stereo ready put it on the floor got my van halen and jmmy hendrix ready and blasted it when their party got loud. now you might think thats mean but when you been playing music loud for half a year than decide to come and ask if its fine to play music for a party well thats just stupid. also when my music didnt work i would take a slegehammer put a phonebook on the floor and hit it. that always worked.

"Dont be a fool for ur tool"

Does your city not have some kind of law on fireworks? I would have called the cops on him and made an annonymous complaint. The problem is if you do it now he'll know it was you and that could create more problems. His kids night wasn't spoiled, they are probably spoiled. There's no need shooting off fireworks like that unless you live way out in the country or it's the 4th of july...particularly that late at night.

When you live in the city and have neighbors, you always have to be considerate of them. Even tho my downstairs neighbor likes to blast "hot stuff" on her radio (she's since moved) i was always considerate to still walk quietly, keep my tv and radio at a reasonable level..etc. My peeve is probably neighbors who own dogs that bark day and night and they do nothing about it. but his attitude was really inappropriate, he knows better. It sounds like he's just one of those guys who thinks it's his house so he can do anything he damn well likes regardless of how it might affect his neighbors.

Andy I feel your pain

This guy who lives under me keeps hitting my floor (his ceiling) with a broom.  Now when it first started I thought maybe I was being too loud and so i made sure not to step hard and what not.  However he started to  bang all the time.  So I thought maybe he was like working on something, then one day the mofo came upstairs (i wasn't home but my sister was) when my sister and her friedn were just sitting around and he said "i been bangin for an hour u would think u'd be quiet."  and then he went back downstairs.  And once the neighbors were playing really loud music and he wouldnt say anything but as soon as my sister walked into the house jhe started banging.  I had been in the house all day and he didnt do anything but as soon as she opened the door he started.  
Now we live reall close to OSU's campus so U know its loud but he never bangs unless we breath.  

Then this morning his alarm went  off for an hour straight .  I was thinking maybe he died in thenight but noone that evil, or agitating, would die in the night.  Maybe it was all part of his plan ,,,,,,,,

I have to say I am still a college student and have often wondered about the  balance between being an ass to my neighbors or not. Being off campus I also live with 3 other people, and the city has passed an ordinance where if anyone calls in a noise complaint on anyone in my house, all four of us will get fined whether we are home or not. This rule also applies to college students, so of course it just aggravates most of us to be louder than usual.


In any case, I bet it w as probably his kids birthday or maybe an engagement etc. I think it was good you didnt mind it the first night and it just seemed you were tired the second time. I wouldn't sweat it, everybody has a right to lose their temper at times and "you shouldn't have been asleep" is really lame.

When my wife came home from church today, I noticed that she was talking to the next door neighbours for a while before she came in. I wondered if they were bothered by the shouting. Turns out they were out of town last night, but they were also bothered by the fireworks the night before. In fact, they were close enough that they were worried about something landing on their house, That and they have a baby trying to sleep. According to them, it wasn't even the parents lighting fireworks the first night - the kids were doing it by themselves. In fact, these kids were told it was all right as long as they stayed ON THE DECK!  We're talking dumb as a bag of hammers here. Well, the guy next door called the cops, but he didn't know the house number, and it was over before they arrived. Pity.

We picked up some useful information from the neighbour. These happen to be the same people who own the Beagle that never stops barking.

Funny, I was worried my shouting was worse than the fireworks, but while I was out front later in the day, the guy two doors down asked if I was involved in the shouting match last night. I said I was, and his response was basically "good for you." He is also closer to the idiot than me. It seems I picked a fight with the neighbourhood pain in the ass and won some respect for it. I think I'll count myself lucky, and go back to being the quiet guy who never makes trouble.

I did make a point of checking the city bylaws. I still have to track down a specific fireworks or burn bylaw, but I found the noise bylaw online. Alas, the cutoff for fireworks noise is 11pm. Still, it is my understanding that there are specific restrictions on fireworks.

The other thing I did was take a drive down their street, and took note of their house number. I see one more firework, and the cops will be paying them a visit. I'm also tempted to call bylaw enforcement the next time I hear their Beagle at 6am. The noise bylaw was very enlightening in that regard. Half the people on the street are dog owners, and I seldom hear anything but that distinctive Beagle bark.

I'll keep you posted.



Post Edited (06-06-04 22:23)

Say, where do you live AndyC? Do you live in Oregon by any chance? Because there were some a***ole neighbors living near my grandma's house then they moved to a house that's a bit closer to my house and if I remember correctly they had a beagle also. Cause if we live near each other we can watch b-movies!

Oh yeah, I like being the quiet guy also.

Evan3 wrote:

> he city has passed an ordinance where if anyone
> calls in a noise complaint on anyone in my house, all four of
> us will get fined whether we are home or not.

How in the world can they enforce THAT?  You get fined for a noise ordinance while you are not home, go to court.  A Judge will throw that one out in a second.  How in the world can you be charged with something you are not even there to do and had no part in?

Dumb politicians, passing laws/ordinances to make folks "feel" like they are doing something.

AndyC wrote:


>I found the
> noise bylaw online. Alas, the cutoff for fireworks noise is
> 11pm.

There is probably a "Disorderly Conduct" or "Disturbing the Peace" type of law that has no specific time limit.  See if you can talk to a cop, and find out how that is enforced and if you can use that (if need be).

Where I was in Law Enforcement, we had noise ordinances (with 11 pm limit), but we also had "Disorderly Conduct" which was a STATE LAW, not a City Ordinance. If someone complained (as in, "I cannot sleep with this racket"), and especially if numerous people are complaining, he'd have gotten a trip to jail.

That would have been a good lesson for his kids.....seeing Daddy hooked up tends to stick with the little ones, when they KNOW (in their hearts) that Daddy was being a butt.

According to the next door neighbour, the police dispatcher told him what the guy was doing was illegal. I have to go see one of the local sergeants this week anyway (for work), so I'll ask what applies specifically. I have the idiot's address for next time (if there is a next time), since that was the only impediment to him getting a visit on Friday night.

As for Dave's question, I live in Canada - Ontario to be more precise. I'm about an hour west of Toronto in a city called Waterloo. I'm going to wreck the image all of you probably have of Canadians as gentle and polite. Neighbourhood shouting matches sound more like something we'd associate with New York City. No offense to anyone from New York, that's just the image we have, as you probably already know.



Post Edited (06-07-04 09:37)

I still have to call the city clerk's office for the full fireworks bylaw, but I found enough of a summary on the website to tell me that the law is behind me. Fireworks are only permitted on designated holidays (basically Victoria Day and Canada Day), or with a permit from the fire department. They are also not to be ignited by anyone under the age of 18.

Don't know whether I should call bylaw enforcement, and let them have a talk with the guy now, or wait for him to do it again, if he has the nerve. I'll probably wait - more chance of an actual fine that way. I doubt the city would do much two days after the fact. Better to have the cops show up while he still has the smoking tubes.

I seriously think I intimidated him enough that we won't hear another peep out of him for a while, however.

Normally, I wouldn't get so worked up over something like this, but there is just something in this guy's attitude that infuriates me. His kids are shooting fireworks less than 100 feet from my bedroom window, and I'm bothering him by complaining about it.

If he makes one more bit of trouble, I won't hesitate.

Don't know about where you live but here in New Mexico, fires are a big deal so anyone setting of fireworks anyplace near vegetation in any way that wasn
t really safe would really get the cops attention

Personally, I think waiting is better.  You have the high ground right now; calling the cops at this point would just seem vindictive.

That he quit and has not done it again is an indication that he knows he was in the wrong.  What gets me is when people know that they are wrong and do what they want anyway.  Geeesh.

Worse yet, he was probably drinking and setting the fireworks off. How else would you explain his behaviour? This is not something that an "adult" in the right frame of mind should consider as a good idea if the houses and yards are laid out as you had indicated. Moron probably sobered up and realized he had been an ass.

ulthar wrote:

> Evan3 wrote:

> How in the world can they enforce THAT?  You get fined for a
> noise ordinance while you are not home, go to court.  A Judge
> will throw that one out in a second.  How in the world can you
> be charged with something you are not even there to do and had
> no part in?
>

It falls under a "good samaritan" type law which states that if you share residence, you are responsible for all actions that go there, present or not. They offer community service in lieu of a fine which my roomate last year had to do when he was fined for a violation. 2 of his roomates werent there and successfully appealed the fine it in court, but Im sure they count on the ignorance or lack of caring of the college students to pay fines/ do service.

"I'm going to wreck the image all of you probably have of Canadians as gentle and polite."

No, I've seen too many hockey games to have that impression!  Actually, I have met quite a few Canadians through my job and what strikes me about them is how indistinguishable from Americans they are.  Take that as a compliment or insult as you see fit :)

Your neighbor is clearly a jerk.  Tell him everyone in America thinks so.

"Better to have the cops show up while he still has the smoking tubes."

Hey, if you really want him to burn, get your hands on a video camera and film the next violation.  When the cops show up, put on the robe and slippers and walk over there.  As he insists that he wasn't doing anything, hand the cops the tape with as big a grin on your face as you can manage.,

>Well, the guy next door called the cops, but he didn't know the house number,
>and it was over before they arrived.

Two words: Video Camera :)

I agree with you and everyone else, the guy was being a jerk. Around here (suburbs) people occasionally set off fireworks close to the 4th of July, like 2-3 days before, but it's usually confined to around 8-9pm or so. Nobody gets too carried away. The only other noisy neighbor is the guy next door who holds relatively loud birthday parties for his daughter in the backyard. They usually end about the time it starts getting dark though.

Evan3 wrote:

>2 of his roomates werent there and
> successfully appealed the fine it in court, but Im sure they
> count on the ignorance or lack of caring of the college
> students to pay fines/ do service.
>

Exactly.  A law that counts on people not fighting it is unlawful.  At least under the US Constitution, we have a presumption of innocence, and don't have to prove we did not do something.

No self respecting prosecutor (read Police Officer for minor offenses when the cop prosecutes the case in court) would dream of charging somebody with something they did not do.  Dumb.

If it were me, and in the US, I'd be filing a Federal Title 1983 Lawsuit against that City just for trying to charge me under this nonsense.

Disclaimer: I am not a Lawyer.



Post Edited (06-08-04 09:32)

>Exactly. A law that counts on people not fighting it is unlawful. At least under the
>US Constitution, we have a presumption of innocence, and don't have to prove
>we did not do something.

In theory we do, but in reality, the police often tend to pick the best suspect for a crime and then work on making the evidence fit their take on the crime rather than working on finding out who the real culprit is.

For example, I recall reading about a child kidnapping case, I forget the details, where the cops spent about a year investigating and harassing the woman's ex-husband, even though they had no real evidence that he had done anything wrong. They pretty much ignored everything else and just assumed that he was guilty, so they spent all their time trying to prove it. In the end, he was proven innocent and mostly through luck, the police stumbled across the real kidnapper, who had absolutely no relation to the ex-husband.

Anyone accused of child molestation is presumed to be guilty without any proof whatsoever. They'll be arrested, locked up, have their children taken away from them, and must basically prove that they didn't do it in order to get their children back. Meanwhile, their lives will be ruined.

Then there are the wonderful Asset Seizure and Forfeiture laws which allow the cops to confiscate property that they *THINK* might have been involved in the commission of a crime, without any evidence and without charging the person with anything. I order to get their property back, people must try to convince a judge that it wasn't involved in, or gained via an illegal act. People have had money, cars, even their homes taken away without ever being charged with a crime.

JohnL wrote:

>
> Then there are the wonderful Asset Seizure and Forfeiture laws
> which allow the cops to confiscate property that they *THINK*
> might have been involved in the commission of a crime, without
> any evidence and without charging the person with anything. I
> order to get their property back, people must try to convince a
> judge that it wasn't involved in, or gained via an illegal act.
> People have had money, cars, even their homes taken away
> without ever being charged with a crime.

We have similar seizure laws here, but there is a big difference in regard to the innocent-guilty aspect.  Our seizure laws are Civil, and the standard of guilt is MUCH lighter: preponderance of evidence, rather than reasonable doubt.  I've seen some applications of the seizure laws that would make you sick (like cops seizing a video camera at a drug search where no drugs were found, other than the ziplock bag of Tylenol they 'seized' to seize SOMETHING drug related, when they needed a new video camera for the drug unit....saw this one first hand).  With car seizures, it was often not even the car owner who was involved in the crime, and the owner then got to be embroiled in Civil court to try to get their car back.

Asset Seizure laws are the single biggest reason rational drug laws/enforcement will never happen:  drug law enforcement is now tied to an agency making money.  One of the departments I worked for a few years back funded a new weight room for the department with seized assets.  A whole lot of people have their fingers in the seized asset pie, and will likely never let that revenue stream go.

If I recall correctly  from one of my legal classes, the reasonable doubt standard is actually a higher one than preponderance of evidence, at least in the US legal system.  

Of course, that's assuming juries follow instructions, which judging from my experience serving on one, is a pretty big assumption to make.

That was YOU?   I'm coming over!

Ok I'm kidding.  As a new home owner I am discovering the joys of annoying neighbors.   I expect you could contact the police becuase in many cities fireworks are not legal anyway.  But I don't know  exactly what  they will do.  
But I do  feel for you.  
Anyone have advice about constant streams of under-supervised teenagers  across the street?  All kinds of loud cars and people parked in front of my house leaving litter on the sidewalk.

Anyone have advice about...

Random Land Mines

jmc wrote:

> If I recall correctly  from one of my legal classes, the
> reasonable doubt standard is actually a higher one than
> preponderance of evidence, at least in the US legal system.  


That's right.

"Our seizure laws are Civil, and the standard of guilt is MUCH lighter: preponderance of evidence, rather than reasonable doubt."

The Civil Seizure cases only have to meet Preponderance of the Evidence, whereas the Criminal (drug, or other) case has to meet the much stricter Reasonable Doubt standard.

Jay wrote:

> Anyone have advice about...
>
> Random Land Mines

Good one.

Very Mean Rottweiller comes to mind, as well.

>Asset Seizure laws are the single biggest reason rational drug
>laws/enforcement will never happen: drug law enforcement is now tied to an
>agency making money. One of the departments I worked for a few years back
>funded a new weight room for the department with seized assets. A whole lot of
>people have their fingers in the seized asset pie, and will likely never let that
>revenue stream go.

I'm hoping that those laws get overturned one day. Asset Seizure should only be permitted when the person is convicted of a crime. The very fact that asset seizure is allowed to happen without a conviction tells me that they know damn well that the people they're seizing stuff from probably haven't done anything wrong. There's something very wrong with this...

I think you should put some dog crap in a bag,put it on his porch,lite it on fire and ring the doorbell and run

Andy, maybe you can just slip this on his bumper sticker:

(http://www.prankplace.com/images/bumper/ilovegayporn.gif)

He sounds like just the kind of guy who might appreciate it. See i'm vindictive in a different way....lol

But seriously, keep at it. I once had a neighbor with a non stop barking dog. I called the cops and they slapped him with some kind of notice that said he had to shut the dog up. And..it worked, I don't know if it he bought a muzzle or one of those things that zaps your dog whenever it barks but he took a visit from the cops. If the neighbors know at least one person is speaking out they are more likely to back you up with further complaints should there be problems in the future. I hope not but it always seems like there's one guy like this on the street

It's Friday, and if this guy is going to light off the rest of his fireworks, it's his first real opportunity since the shouting match of last Saturday night. One bang, one flash, and the cops will be paying a visit. I'll let you know if anything happens.

You know, it's only just occurred to me, but I wonder if this is the same neighbour who was lighting fireworks in the middle of the day last month. The banging and whistling freaked the dogs out while my wife was trying to groom them on the side porch. That sounded like it came from a different direction, but from where we were listening, it could have bounced off another house. It didn't really bother me, it was just a weird thing for somebody to do.

"dumb as a bag of hammers "

That ranks up there with, "as useless as a screen door on a submarine"

Hehe!



Post Edited (06-12-04 04:51)

Looks like the saga is ended. I wasn't bothered at all this weekend. I wonder if I've deterred the guy, or that he shared the story with other people who were less inclined to see him as the innocent victim. Either way, there haven't been fireworks in over a week. In a way, I'm disappointed because I was all ready to nail him, but peace and quiet is what it was all about.

He's just lulling you all into a false sense of security.  Then, one night, when you least expect it:  Wham!  Lots o' rockets.

I work for a police department in California- if someone is disturbing your peace at ANY time of the day or night, you're free to sign a citizen's arrest for PC415.  Fireworks are illegal in my city, though, so no citizen's arrest is needed for that here.

I am not a bad neighbor.I have never been arrested in my life , I work for the school district, I know how to follow rules. However I am on vacation and the management who lives right next door to me just gave me a citizens arrest the day before yesterday. I cant  believe it. Many probably think big deal but it is to me. For one its a lie! they have been on my back about anything you can think of all the way to the color I painted my trailor.(blue) Baby blue.... anyway the point is I dont know what I am in for in court. I  think its so unfair I may have to pay a fine for something I didnt even do. I had music  on yes however I asked y husband  to go outside and make sure it was not loud. Also, It was at the same volume for at least 3 hours and the management never came by till they went outside to plant some flowers and he is always looking for reasons to pester me. My music wasnt even on when the police officer got there. How do I proove my innocence? I shouldnt have to pay for my neighbor hating me and I have other things to do with my money like spend it on bills rent , food  and my beautiful daughter. I cant afford to be paying fines? and where does it end? He can call the police right now and say anything he wants.Someone please give me some advice. I want to move asap but I cant afford it right now..:(

>Someone please give me some advice.

Are you friends with any of the neighbors? If so, did any of them hear the music? Maybe one of them could be your witness.

My heart goes out to you!  Two days ago my husband was convicted of the same charge and found guilty.  He awaits sentencing this coming week.  Our closest neighbor testified that they didn't even hear the music.  He even collected signatures from a dozen other neighbors saying that they have never been disturbed by loud music.  My husband chose a jury trial believing that no one would believe our complaining neighbor.  If he had originally admitted guilt he would have been given a $140 fine with 2 years probation.  Now he faces up to 90 days in jail and a $400 fine.  I used to believe that our justice system was a fair one.  As a teacher I even encouraged my students that they could depend on our police and our legal system.  What a fool I was.