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   Man, I can't believe that movie sucked so bad. Hollywood has all the money in the world and they take the greatest concept to come along before jason and freddie and turn it into a pg-13 suck-fest. No blood , no gore,  very short fight scenes and very non-scary  supposed-to-be-scary scenes.
   I don't know who ruined this concept, but they should bury him or them in an unmarked grave under where the movie was shot and bury both franchises untill somebody like rainee(spiderman) or Jackson(lotr) can find time to revive them.

Raimi not rainee.

Blame fox for being incompitent and for hiring an incompitent driector/writer.

I think your right about the concepts being there, but I guess it was hard to translate to screen. I liked the Predators/Warrior/Hunter idea and the action was fair, again like in the other post I think the film was interesting and therefore entertaining. Could it have been better? Possibly, you have to realize that neither creature speaks and then you have humans in the middle of the action. Not an easy undertaking in my opinion.  It is worth seeing at least once. Not sure if I'd feel the need to watch it again.



Post Edited (08-13-04 22:08)

Oh, please. Spare us the whole, 'It's all Paul Anderson's fault', because that's a load of horse s**t. Anderson wanted an R rating. Fox decided to shoot him in the head and edit it down to a f**kin' PG-13 instead. Quit b***hing and deal with it.

Sound's like you're having a harder time dealing with it than me. This is a public forum, and being so you're going to get a variety of opinons. But guess what here is the wonderful thing about peoples opinions,  you dont have to agree with them because they're not being forced on you.

So quit being so rude.

even if it was rated R, it would still be tame, afterall, it's Paul anderson, he said the same thing about Resident Evil

they should have thrown out the bogus story. Here's what it should have been: Predators go to some planet  where Aliens are being breed for the black market. All hell then breaks loose for 2 hours, every person gets killed in the process of the Predators and killing each other. It would have been so great, all you need is an excuse to show the two fight cuase nobody is looking for a Citizen Kane or My Dinner with Andre here.

I came to dislike Paul Anderson (the only filmmaker I've gone out of my way to dislike, I might add) before I came to this board, so hopefully I won't be accused of jumping the bandwagon.

Him directing AVP was the worst film-related news I had ever heard. However, I don't like to think of myself as some frothing Aint-it-cool-news troll, so when the release date came rolling around, I decided to give him another chance. So, without reading any internet spoliers or behind the scenes scoops, I bought my ticket for the 4:35 show on opening day.

SPOILER ALERT

As it started out, my spirits went up- I was expecting horrific, smarmy, Anaconda-esque  characters, so I at least got that much. At least. When that one dude showed pictures of his kids, however, they dropped right back down again. As the end credits rolled, I realized that, while it was obvious that Paul at least tried (really, really tried - how do you do italics on this board?), that doesn't compensate for his extreme lack of qulaifcations and talent.

Let's look at the characters. The main character (I can'r remember her name, even) was boring and one-dimensional. Really, the only promising character was Lance Henrikson's Bishop. He had the workings of a third dimension, what with his illness (which wasn't Evil Greedy Corporate Bastard Syndrome, even!) and his desire to do something with his life. The oppurtunity was totally wasted, however. When he was killed off, his role amounted to nothing. Same thing goes for everyone else.

Maybe this was my imagination, but in the scene when the two Preds were killed off, did anyone see that the Alien was "cloaked" like the Preds? Again, maybe it was my imagination, but if I'm right, AVP geeks should be throwing a fit.

And will someone tell hack directors to STOP USING BULLET TIME?!? Please?

So basically, no ingenuity, and no fun to comenpsate for the lack thereof. Sorry, Anderson.

For fairness, here's some things I liked:

The Alien Queen's final rampage- it contrasts with the relativley slow moving queen from Aliens, but I don't care- it was way cool. The only thing in the movie that made me forget I was watching a bad movie, the Queen chasing Moutain Climbing Lady was a good example of a nightmare monster you can't run away from. CGI done right.

Predalien at the end! Whoo!

And, uh, that's it.

END SPOILERS

I haven't seen this yet and with the bad reviews and the listings of things I KNOW would annoy the crap out of me, I'll almost certainly wait for it to show up on cable.

The sad thing is that when this movie flops, the studio executives (who are completely incapable of judging quality) will decide that the public has no interest in Alien or Predator movies.

A final thought-
If you do plan on biting the bullet and seeing this movie, don't watch SILENCE OF THE LAMBS, or any other good movie, immediatly beforehand. You'll be depressed afterward.

the movie was somewhat descent until the mountain climber chick and the predator teamed up.  The alien shield head and the alien tail spear made me throw up.  The movie became a complete suck fess after that.

"I think your right about the concepts being there, but I guess it was hard to translate to screen."

Sorry, but that's no excuse.  Just like the NBA player who whines that it's hard to hit three pointers when he gets paid $6million a year to do so, it's the director's job to translate tough concepts to the screen -- and Hollywood directors make that same kind of NBA money.  No excuse.  What baffles me is how directors of flops like this (and I predict it will lose money) ever find work again.  God if I lost my employer that kind of money, he'd fire me and make sure I never worked in my field again.

AVP for me was the biggest disappointment since Lucas started pooping out the new Star Wars movies... and frankly I'm not even a real die hard fan of either the Alien or Predator franchises.  I thought it would be can't-miss fun.  I guess I should have remembered the last two Alien movies.  At least they didn't go to the tired old standby of evil corporate monsters wanting to bottle and sell the aliens.  That concept should have died with Paul Reiser.

Why do you people get so extreme about it?  It really wasn't that bad of a movie.  Maybe if you weren't such pretentious a***oles you might actually enjoy some movies.  I'm starting to think alot of you people are on the wrong message board, I was under the impression that this was a board dedicated to the love of "bad movies"...people who just enjoy being entertained by movies.  You people hate just about every movie you see, and usually your arguments against them are pretty sad, and ALWAYS extreme.  There's some mentality out there that disliking movies makes you appear as if you're somehow more intellegent than the rest of the world, and that you're somehow above modern film.  There are masses of movies on the exact same level as AVP etc. that you probably think are amazing just because they are a couple decades old and it's okay to like a "bad movie" if it's "old school."
The Star Wars Prequels are on the EXACT SAME LEVEL as the orignal trilogy wether you want to admit it or not.  The reason we all love the original trilogy so much more is because it has had two decades to work up the magic that it has.  We've built star wars into what it is today.  We've all loved it so much for so long that it's infallible to us, and nothing, NOTHING, that anyone  (whether he's George Lucas or Jesus Christ) makes can compare to it right away.  If lucas made the prequels twenty years ago, even if they somehow had the same actors and the same scripts, we'd all love them.  
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but my main point is that you aren't really the movie lovers you claim to be.

"The sad thing is that when this movie flops, the studio executives (who are completely incapable of judging quality) will decide that the public has no interest in Alien or Predator movies."

It mad close to 40 million opening weekend, exceeding estimates.  It will have a quick dropoff, and probably end up in the 70-80 million range domestically.  Combined with overseas gross, merchandising, and what will probably be very good DVD sales (especially since we'll likely see an R-rated version), it will have been a modest hit.  Perhaps not enough to finance another film though...

"The Star Wars Prequels are on the EXACT SAME LEVEL as the orignal trilogy wether you want to admit it or not. The reason we all love the original trilogy so much more is because it has had two decades to work up the magic that it has. We've built star wars into what it is today. We've all loved it so much for so long that it's infallible to us, and nothing, NOTHING, that anyone (whether he's George Lucas or Jesus Christ) makes can compare to it right away. If lucas made the prequels twenty years ago, even if they somehow had the same actors and the same scripts, we'd all love them.
Sorry to go off on a tangent, but my main point is that you aren't really the movie lovers you claim to be."

Two decades of magic that I didn't experience.  I was born around the time Return of the Jedi came out...  

I hear people say this argument over and over about the prequels, and there is some validity to it.  The original trilogy has its flaws, which are overlooked more than the prequels (which are nitpicked to death).  But you're never going to convince me the prequels are equal films.  Virtually every aspect of them is worse..

The acting is worse (not that Star Wars is great across the board, but christ, the prequels have NO standout performances AT ALL).
The dialogue is worse.
The characters are worse.
The action sequences (with some notable exceptions) are worse.
The direction is MUCH MUCH worse.

Hell, even the editing is worse.

Practically the only thing that is on equal or superior levels to the originals is the special effects and the light saber duels (which are far better in the prequels, I would agree).  

I'm not some huge star wars fan or anything, I didn't go into the Phantom Menace with enormous expectations, but I was left disappointed.  I don't think it is a bad movie, but nothing really special...  Attack of the Clones was a far bigger disappointment.  

BTW, there is no "admitting" it.  What we are talking about is not some objective fact.

Harry is right.  I feel the same way about guys who say that they love p***y but are picky about who they f**k.  Fat women need love too.

Harry wrote:

There's some mentality out there that disliking
> movies makes you appear as if you're somehow more intellegent
> than the rest of the world, and that you're somehow above
> modern film.  There are masses of movies on the exact same
> level as AVP etc. that you probably think are amazing just
> because they are a couple decades old and it's okay to like a
> "bad movie" if it's "old school."

Amen to that brother!
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I am beginning to believe that ideal about most of the writers on 99% of the message boards I visit...especially the IMDB boards where the mob is fickle and rules with an iron fist.

Are we, meaning you, I and others with the similar views on AVP, the only ones who approach these films with common sense?
Not just common sense but a serious desire to "just enjoy a movie without ripping it to shreds."
To "take it as it is" so to speak.

I admit that that is indeed inaccurate conjecture on my part but what the hell...it sure does feel good to say it!

Such is my defiance against AVP and Paul Anderson haters.
I am firmly on Anderson's side here.

And finally...
I know full well that all of us here, especially on THIS board, are intelligent people and make no mistake about it, WE KNOW OUR s**t when it comes to cinema!
In saying that, I must respectfully disagree with your opinion that we are "pretentious a***oles"...far from it.
Many regulars here, including myself have evolved far beyond the pointless and childish bickering that plagues so many other boards.
This particular message board has a certain discpline and fairness to it that no other message board I've ever visited has even come close to attaining.
In your haste to get your opinion across it's easy to get your blood up and fling insults but trust me guy, this is not the place for that.
I know...I've had my fair share of outbursts here on this board.
There is a reason as to why I have darn near 2000 posts here.
You'd do well to look, read and learn.

Either way, it's nice to have an ally who also shares my own personal viewpoints and helped me to defend a film that I actually enjoyed.



Post Edited (08-16-04 02:31)

I don't think it's a lack of common sense to walk into a movie spawned of two of the most impressive, well-loved, and kickass genre movies ever made and expect something righteous, which this was not.
As some of you remember, when every one else was b***hing about Paul Anderson directing, I stood up for him, said I liked Event Horizon (which I still do), and fought the good fight to keep people interested in this movie and at least give it a chance.  I feel like every single executive at Fox lined up and s**t down my throat.  These jackasses take two franchises based around R-rated situations and monsters that tear people limb from limb, and make a movie against a backdrop of 15 years of comic book continuity ranging from "excellent" to "at least it didn't make me want to vomit" which could barely stand up against the least of these.
The "bad" movies we like are things that had no expectations to begin with.  No one ever thought "Blood Feast" was going to rock their world.  They knew what to expect.  There is absolutely no excuse for this movie being as pathetic as it was.  It is, without a doubt, the most disappointment I have ever felt with a movie that had so much going for it.  What a depressing goddamn load to end the franchises with.  Watch it go the Hellraiser route and start crapping out direct-to-video sequels even more dismal and worthless than this.
Enough complaining; here are some things I did like, or at least that made me grin a little:
1.  The Alien Queen on a rampage was very cool.
2.  Bishop playing mumbledypeg with his pen.
3.  The design on the floor of the sacrificial chamber was the logo from Alien 3.

Which is worse - the Anderson haters or the people who tell you that you're pretentious or similar when you say you didn't like the film and then accuse you of over-analysing?

Generally, one forms a base opinion before analysis anyway - analysing is just a way of backing up a point of view, instead of espousing blindly that a movie was really great just because.

I saw the Bishop pen thing - I thought it was pretty weak. The Alien Queen on a rampage was funny, just reminds me of killing one of those b***hes in AvP2. She loved some of the Rocket Launcher, oh yeah.

So....Dark Horse should have done the script. Thats the vibe i'm geting here. Close?

Yep....sounds like one of those "Library specials" to me. I can wait.

Hmm. So if I can't just shut off the old brain and just love every movie I see, then I'm a prententious a***ole?  Yeah that makes sense.  I'd be a lot more down to Earth if I posted five paragraphs of effusive praise on every Jerry Bruckheimer vehicle that came down the road.  After all, if it's loud and has marketable stars, it MUST be good -- Madison Avenue told me so.

Sorry to be thinking critically about movies -- especially ones that follow up great movies like Predator, Alien and Aliens with back-to-the-well half-assed rehashing.  And if you honestly believe the prequels are anywhere near the level of Star Wars or Empire in imagination, atmosphere, plot, character, classical story elements, and, frankly, even special effects to some extent, then, well, I may be the pretentious a***ole, but you're the babbling crack addict on the corner blaming head lice and hail storms on the CIA.  

Annakin Skywalker, a Short Round for the 21st Century.

Eirik is the quintessential pretentious a***ole of whom I spoke.  Notice how he takes things to the ultimate extreme.  He also gives the original trilogy unending praise and gives the prequels nothing.  Notice also his wild and crazy idea that head lice and hail storms have absolutely nothing to do with the CIA.  It's a flipping conspiracy, and anyone with at least half a brain knows that...silly man.

 Aliens versus predator was a big let down. this movie was all about making money off the names. they threw out evey thing that was set in all the predator movies, concerning there strenght and fighting abillitys as well as fictional facts they set in time lines. the director or whom ever was obviously a large fan of the aliens and wanted them to win. i used to collect the comics and have the dark horse comic in which the races first meet, they thew all those ideas out the window.
ruind the whole movie with the cheesy human roles, to make it marketable; because they couldnt have just the aliens and predators on some didtant planet alone because there would be no dialoge. HUGE LET DOWN TO THE REAL FANS. .....No Continuity........

"Notice how he takes things to the ultimate extreme. He also gives the original trilogy unending praise and gives the prequels nothing. "

AVP for me was the biggest disappointment since Lucas started pooping out the new Star Wars movies...
-- Wouldn't the "ultimate extreme" be "biggest disappointment ever" instead of biggest one in the last four years?

and frankly I'm not even a real die hard fan of either the Alien or Predator franchises.
--  Wouldn't "ultimate extreme" be that I think the original Alien and Predator are the best movies I ever saw which would make me a die hard fan?

Harry's right about one thing: there's someone on this thread using gross exagerrations to try to sound smarter than he is.

I was referring to your first paragraph ding-dong.  It was pretty undeniably extreme.
You must have missed that little dot  thing between the two seperate statements "Notice how he takes things to the ultimate extreme."  and "He also gives the original trilogy unending praise and gives the prequels nothing."  That's a period.

I was referring to your first paragraph ding-dong. It was pretty undeniably extreme.

"Sorry, but that's no excuse. Just like the NBA player who whines that it's hard to hit three pointers when he gets paid $6million a year to do so, it's the director's job to translate tough concepts to the screen -- and Hollywood directors make that same kind of NBA money. No excuse. What baffles me is how directors of flops like this (and I predict it will lose money) ever find work again. God if I lost my employer that kind of money, he'd fire me and make sure I never worked in my field again."

I don't see the extreme part.  People making 6-7 figures should be held to a high standard...  THAT's extreme?  Directors of flops getting second shots at huge budgets seems weird.  An extreme point of view?  I'm missing your point I guess.

"He also gives the original trilogy unending praise and gives the prequels nothing." That's a period.

Unending praise?  Both posts were like 2 paragraphs long.  The Star Wars thing was only a small part of those posts.  I said the prequels weren't as good as the originals.  That is not "giving them nothing."  Are you posting on another board too and getting your responses mixed up?

Dark Horse owns the rights to -A- script for the AVP movie, and Paul Anderson wanted to use it, but.. he couldn't. So. Quit blaming him, it's OFFICIAL now that there will be an R-rated director's cut, and everything in the universe will be FINE.

oh God, Harry give it a rest.

Eirik just let it go.

Only way Aliens vs Predator would have been any good would have been if Fox had somehow lost or sold the rights to the franchise, and either a smaller distributor taking over or having it privately financed with little interference. Not likely though in these glossy fast-buck, thrill-a-minute-then-forget, days. That's why I lost my faith with the mainstream film industry. That's why there are few sequels to really look forward to, when the general public is happy to digest anything that is thrown at it, as long as there are good names attached...the 'big' directors are just puppets these days, as you say.

Eirik, you still don't understand what I was referring to, and I'm tired of trying to prove that you're an idiot when you're proving it yourself over and over and over.

Stop it harry, you're almost as bad as Ryan.

"Eirik, you still don't understand what I was referring to"

If it was a different "first paragraph" you're referring to, you'll have to be more specific... though how many "first paragraphs" could I have written?  Enough of this.  Like the director of AVP, you're boring me, Harry.

Anyway, back to the original topic -

I knew nothing about this movie going into it. I simply had nothing better to do that night.
I read the Dark Horse comic about 15 years ago on Alien Vs. Predator, and it felt very much like I saw a 2 hour version of that comic with just a few bits changed around.

***SPOILERS***

Sure, there were inconsistencies. Predators that love to hunt in the hot jungles are now hunting in the Arctic? The gestation period of an alien is now roughly 5 minutes?

All in all, it was a bad movie - and I liked it.

I especially liked that I had no idea Paul Anderson directed it and while watching, I thought to myself "that one Predator looks like Scorpion!"

I bore you and your lack of intellegence depresses me.

Please Harry, can we stop being rude to each other and just enjoy movies?

please note that eirik started the rudeness and it has been exactly blow for blow since then.  sorry for being stubborn but I can't help it, it's a***ole nature to hate other a***oles.

Then both of you just cool out.  We have enough problems with trolls around here without members getting at each other's throats.

S'cool brother R. Its all worked out in a diff topic.

"please note that eirik started the rudeness and it has been exactly blow for blow since then."

What??  I mean WHAT????  I get called a pretentious a***ole, I counter with the holes in your argument...  I get called an idiot and a moron...  I counter by allowing that maybe you have my posts mixed up with someone elses - a valid suggestion given how you misrepresented everything I said, and one that graciously gives you the benefit of the doubt...  Now I started it and I was rude?

Hey, whatever.

Eirik's right . . . Harry's just trolling.

Full support non-linear thinking and full support not having your intelligence insulted by film.