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10.  The phsycotic killer from Frequency
09. The Shredder (TMNT)
08. Philium Benedict ( Recess: School's Out)
07. Biff Tannen
06. Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
05. The Joker
04. Christoph (The Truman Show)
03. Darth Vader
02. Emperor Palpatine
01. Micheal Moore

So if Michael Moore is listed, then I guess I can add George W. Bush into the list as well.

Michael Moore, I thought  you said top ten villians, not top ten idiots.

No Hannibal Lector?  No Eric Qualen?  No Cal Hockley?

(Okay, so that last one was a joke).

Top Ten Lists on this forum always get ripped for what/who did not make it.  ;)

Here are 10 that come to mind . . .

10. Liberty Valance (from THE MAN WHO SHOT LIBERTY VALANCE)
9. Richard Widmark's character from the original KISS OF DEATH
8. Szell (from MARATHON MAN)
7. Mr. Black (from RESERVOIR DOGS)
6. Alex (from A CLOCKWORK ORANGE)
5. Max Cady (from CAPE FEAR)
4. Darth Vader
3. Nicky Santoro (from CASINO)
2. Tommy (from GOODFELLAS)
1. Guy Woodhouse (from ROSEMARY'S BABY)

Burgo,

Don't mean to nitpick, but did you mean Mr. Black from Res Dogs or Mr. Blonde?  If I remember correctly, Mr Black was Keitel.....but it's very possible I'm wrong.

I'm so glad Cape Fear was mentioned --
I don't know if I can come up with 10, but I wonder sometimes at the preponderance of "modern" films on this site -- Are we not edumacated re. older films?
Robert Mitchum in Cape Fear
Robert DeNiro in Cape Fear
Robert Mitchum in Night of the Hunter(Have none of you SEEN this?!!? -- a more evil squid is hard to find -- seriously . . .)
Charles Laughton in Mutiny on the Bounty
Charles Laughton in Island of Lost Souls
Boris Karloff in The Body Snatchers
Boris Karloff in How the Grinch Stole Christmas(Okay, threw that one in 'cause I know you've at LEAST seen that!)
I agree with the Jack Palance vote . . .
* * * *
Number One?  Really watch this "Warped, frustrated old man!" the next time It's A Wonderful Life is on TV:
 Lionel Barrymore as Mr. Potter!
 Hiss!!  Boo!!!
peter johnson/denny crane

Boris Karloff from the Bodysnatchers.....

I have to see that one again.  It's such a great movie.

The list as answered by a friend of mine

Jigsaw from Saw
Darth Vader from The Empire Strikes Back
Tony Montana from Scarface
Oliver Lang from Arlington Road
Nicky Santoro from Casino
Derek Vinyard from American History X
David Allen Griffin from The Watcher
The Caller from Phonebooth
Hannibal Lecter from Silence of the Lambs



Post Edited (11-11-05 21:40)

No one has mentioned the dude from "Seven."

Skaboi wrote:

> Don't mean to nitpick, but did you mean Mr. Black from Res Dogs
> or Mr. Blonde?  If I remember correctly, Mr Black was
> Keitel.....but it's very possible I'm wrong.


Actually, I think Keitel played Mr. White.
Matter of fact, I don't think there even was a Mr. Black in Reservoir Dogs.



Post Edited (11-12-05 00:19)

I'm wondering which Cape Fear Burgo meant, though both were great I found De Niro's Max Cady to be the better one.

[also gotta love Night of the Hunter.  Robert Mitchum is great.  I love the speech he gives about the tatoos on his hands which is later replicated by Spike Lee in "Do the Right Thing"]

Wow, Scorsese has certainly had a part in many of those Villains mentioned so far.  Interesting.

Also with Resevoir dogs, Kietel was Mr White and Madsen was Mr Blonde.  If you remember in the film Mr Pink was complaining because he wanted a better colour, and was told that there was no Mr Black because then everyone would want it and cause trouble.

As for some others mentioned, whilst he was an evil little bugger, I've always personally considered Alex from A Clockwork Orange as an anti-hero rather than a true out and out villain.  Though of course that's really not that big of a difference really [and I can definitely see why people would disagree with me saying that] Maybe its just because of the fact that he is the main character and the way he is presented at the end...  But I'm just nitpicking and being a bit of a definition-crazed person so don't mind me!!

As for my own personal picks, where do I begin?  I hate choosing villains so I guess I'll just mention a few sweet villains [perhaps even ones that aren't really villainy!] that haven't been mentioned, and think of a list properly later on.


Liked Jack Nicholson's 'Jack Torrence' from the Shining.  

Anthony Perkins as Norman Bates in Psycho

Dennis Hopper as Frank in Blue Velvet [what a scary scary bastard both Hopper and Frank would be...definitely would be on any list of Villains I had]

Vincent Price's Dr Phibes from the Abominable Dr Phibes [what a fun villain he is!]

1.   Max Cady (from Cape Fear/Robert Mitchum or Rober Deniro
2.  Alex (from Clockwork Orange)
3. Any Villain played by Jack Nicholson  (Jack Torrance, The Joker, and etc.)
4.  Hal-2000
5. Any villain played by Christopher Lee (Dracula, Scaramanga, Count Dooku, or etc.)
6. Freddy Kruger (A Nightmare on Elm Street-Freddy Vs. Jason)
7.  Godzilla (or Gojira)
8.   Scarface (Scarface-1983)
9.  Lex Luthor (Superman 78-86)
10.  Jigsaw (from Saw & Saw II)

Skaboi:

You may have caught me with that one.  I actually meant the Michael Madsen character, not the Harvey Keitel character.  I stand corrected.

Dean:

I wasn't really referring to either actror - - I was referring to the character of Max Cady in general.  I think both Mitchum and DeNiro were great in the roles, but DeNiro was just a bit more evil, so I guess the award goes to him.

Actually, some of these, if they are not the hero of the movie, then they  are the protagonist, but here is my list of the coldbloodiest of the coldblooded killers, that I have seen. And there are more then ten.

Brotherhood of the Wolf
All the villains, exemplified by . . .
Jean-Francois de Motangias
(Vincent Cassel)

Cry of the Banshee
Lord Edward Whitman
(Vincent Price)

Heathers
Jason "J.D." Dean
(Christian Slater)

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer
Henry
(Michael Rooker)

In Cold Blood
Perry Edward Smith
(Robert Blake)
Richard "Dick" Eugene Hancock
(Stuart Wilson)

Lair of the White Worm
Lady Sylvia Marsh
(Amanda Donohoe)

Macbeth
Macbeth
(Jon Finch)

Man Bites Dog
Ben
(Benoit Poelvoorde)

Once Upon a Time in the West
Frank
(Henry Fonda)

The Reckoning
Lord de Guise
(Vincent Cassel)

The Stepfather
Jerry "The Stepfather" Blake
(Terry O'Quinn)

Treasure Planet
Scroop
(voiced by Michael Wincott)

Vampire Circus
Most of the vampires and/or circus members, exemplified by . . .
Count Mitterhouse
(Robert Tayman)

I would agree with most of the selections here, but I would add Rhoda Penmark (Patty McCormack) from the 1956 version of The Bad Seed. That is one creepy little girl!

Damn!  John Doe form Se7en was at the top of my list.  When I cut and pasted it, I must have missed it.

Is it wrong that I hardly consider J.D. a Villian? Then again isn't that the whole point of Anti-Hero/Black Comedy make you cheer for the villian.

Anyway The Marbles and Divine in Pink Flamingos were both amazing villians!

Yes, you're wrong, SaintMort.  People who impale hookers on barbed lances, and kill men by stuffing them with spaghetti, and who give


(spoilers)


a policeman his wife's severed head to prove a point...

?!?

Uh, yeah...remind me not to p**s off Mort.

KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!

I don't  about being evil but Darth Vader is one of my favorites.

The charistmatic Belloq from Raiders of the lost Ark.

And there is something rather evil about Richard Guyot from the Guyver series.

Scary Gary Oldman isn't quite "classic" yet to fit in this list, but he should, someday.  That clear, blue-eyed foaming madness he can generate...

No mention of Noah Cross from Chinatown? He's pretty f**ked up. By the end of the movie and when everything was divulged, I felt pretty sick by his person. By the by, I vote Chinatown as the best story of a Jack Nicholson movie. I don't know of another story where city water and power, murder, and city expansion are even combined. Great movie.

Kurtz from Apocalypse Now?

Travis Bickel
Jason
Michael Myers (slasher not Canadian)
Neno Brown (New Jack City)
Chuckie
Damien (evil incarnate)
Jame Gumm from SotLambs
Norman Bates
Michael Corleaone
Alien

Just some that I didn't see listed.  Lord Vader will always be number 1 to me.

I gotta say that Alex is a villian, assaults, rapes and murder aren't really simply anti-hero stuff.  The problem is that there are no good guys in that movie, outside, perhaps, of his probation officer.

Another villian is the leader of the gang in Mad Max.

raj wrote:
>
> Another villian is the leader of the gang in Mad Max.


Toecutter. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Thanks, forgot the name.

Slasher movie villians are not evil, they're just slashers.  Evil requires more of a lack of humanity.  Wearing a mask and chopping people up makes you a slasher, not a villian.

I think that is a distinction that needs to be made.  The Alien isn't evil either.  It is a life form trying to survive, which does not make it evil, just lethal.  There is no malice in it's actions, just instinct.  

Norman Bates wasn't evil.  He was creepy and psychotic but not evil.  Insanity takes the choice away.  Jack, in The Shining isn't evil, he's just insane.

Shadowphile wrote:

>  Wearing a mask and
> chopping people up makes you a slasher, not a villian.
>

???

> Shadowphile wrote:
>
> >  Wearing a mask and
> > chopping people up makes you a slasher, not a villian.
> >

Yeah, I understand that, the difference between 'bad guy' and out and out evil villain.  But let's not get hung up too much on definition otherwise we'll bog ourselves down in semantics.  But yes, creatures are hardly villains.  On the other hand, the masters of said creatures could be defined as a villain quite well.

Though slashers may not be defined as villains exactly, I think Freddy is somewhat more villain-like than your average horror movie slasher [if we are going to go by exact meanings]  Thoughts?

and yeah, Jack Torrance isn't really a villain in the classical sense, but he's one hell of a memorable 'crazy but bad' guy.  But I guess that isn't the thread! :-P

I respectfully disagree with the entire list.

akiratubo wrote:

> I respectfully disagree with the entire list.

Fair enough.  What entries do you suggest?

Let's put this in a Dungeons and Dragons perspective.  Which would be considered worse...Lawful Evil or Chaotic Evil?  

Lawful Evil assumes that the villain follows a code that he/she must adhere to.  There may be deception, but rules are rules.  I assume an example of this would be Jigsaw from Saw.  The acts are evil but the victim does have a chance to win, no matter how slim.

Chaotic Evil assumes no adherance to such rules.  An example of this would be Jason from Friday the 13th.  He kills at random and has no regard for rules.

Which do you fear most?  It seems to me that Lawful Evil is by far the worse of the two.  The Lawful Evil types seem to be intelligent and much more sadistic.  The Chaotics tend to perform a quick kill.

Thoughts?

Most people have the most visceral reaction to the sociopath -- the person who has a true "antisocial personality" and a lack of conscience.  You can't really break this sort of thing down in Gygax terms.  (To place me in time, space and personality, by the way, I vividly remember reading the first edition of the DMG sitting on playground equipment in fifth grade, and reading the first ed Monster Manual in my sixth grade homeroom on the first day of school.)

On the one hand, a sociopath doesn't learn from mistakes or punishment in the way society "expects."  That's a chaotic-seeming trait.  On the other hand, sociopaths can be quite organized, charismatic, and may have a code of conduct.  "Lawful."

I don't fear any of 'em.  If any of the bastards gets near my daughter, I'll end him.  =)

Georgie Boy wrote:

> Which do you fear most?  It seems to me that Lawful Evil is by
> far the worse of the two.  The Lawful Evil types seem to be
> intelligent and much more sadistic.  The Chaotics tend to
> perform a quick kill.
>
> Thoughts?

In contrast, though, Jason (your example of Chaotic Evil) seemed quite intelligent and sadistic.  He lasted quite a few movies, and even went to Manhattan to 'hunt.'

Chaotic implies unpredictability, and that scares me more than someone willing to follow some rules (their own, warped rules perhaps, but rules nonetheless).  That's just my opinion.

I'd have to say Lee Van Cleef in THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY especially in the opening scene. Angel Eyes gets the information from the man, kills the man and his son, takes his money, then kills the one who sent him. Because he always finishes a job.

One of the really great movie "Villians" is Phalsa Doom in CONAN THE BARBARIAN played by James Earl Jones. One of the best movie characters in film history in my opinion.

THULSA Doom, just to be pedantic.

Personally, I've always considered Neutral Evil to be the worst sort of evil.  It is evil for it's own sake.  Chaotic evil is random but almost invariably picks the cruel option.  Lawful evil is mercilessly adhering to some form of approved code.

"You called meee a warped, frustrated old maaannn . . . " and for that, you must die in horror and disgrace.
Void of Humanity:  Watch Lionel Barrymore this season in "It's a Wonderful Life".
peter johnson/denny crane

Having just watched 'Ladyhawke' again, I'm going to suggest the Bishop of Aquila.

A man of the church (which is never a good thing) who curses two lovers (If I can't have her, no man shall), discredits a good man (Etienne of Navarre) uses God as a lever to keep his minions in line and tries to kill the girl once the curse is lifted (If I can't have her no man shall Part II), all without leaving the security of his church.

Did I mention the killing spike he has concealed in his cross/staff?

Thanks for the correction. Never saw the spelling before.

Well...since we are going for most evil and not the best I'm going to have to provide my list as follows(In no particular order other than when they come to mind)

Bear in mind that I'm too lazy to distinguish between multiples/series and singles. ;)

1: Freddy Krueger-Nightmare on Elm Street
2: Damian-The Omen
3: Pazuzu-The Exorcist
4: Queen Bavmorda-Willow
5: Mr. Black-The Stand
6: Pennywise-It
7: The Darkness-Legend
8: Chucky-Child's Play
9: Pinhead-Hellraiser
10: Satan-Any movie he's in.