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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Bad Movies  |  Another incredibly bad film - The Island - Possible Spoilers « previous next »
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Author Topic: Another incredibly bad film - The Island - Possible Spoilers  (Read 5105 times)
WyreWizard
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« on: July 04, 2006, 03:27:37 PM »

Yes, I know I  will get a lot of flames for this from all you bad movie junkies.  But I am giving my opinion about a film that was bad with a capital B.  The reason this film was so bad was because the story was not only implausible, but very shallow.  The people that made this film obviously thought using high-budget special effects would cover that problem.  But it didn't fool me.  What is this film, you ask?  Very simple.  Its Michael Bay's 2005 flick, The Island.  When I first saw this film on DVD, I was shaking my head a lot.  That is my habit, I just shake my head at any flaws I see.  I'm not like those morons in the theater who stands up in the theater and yells "Hey, that's not possible!"  The trailers for this film really had me fooled.  I thought this would be some kind of post-doomsday flick like Aeon-Flux.  But I was wrong.  This film uses perhaps the most commonly misconstrued plot used by a lot of sci-fi authors and filmmmakers.  That plot, cloning.  Yes, cloning.  Virtually every film and book I saw about cloning always has the clones looking exactly like the person who donated the genetic material to create the clone.  That error is so wrong, its not funny.  If a clone really came out looking like the genetic donor, then every child that a couple has would look exactly the same, not just the same appearance, but same gender too.  But unfortunately, that doesn't happen every time.  The only way a couple has children that look mostly the same is by multiple births, as in the case of identical twins, triplets, etc.  But to say that a clone will always come out looking like the genetic donor is wrong.  You simply look the way you do because of the unique way your genetics combined.  Think of it like a million random number generators.  If they all came out with a numeric string, would they all duplicate that exact same numeric string?  Unlikely in the extreme.  In reality, if you made a human clone of yourself, it would not come out looking like you.  If you created a million clones of yourself, perhaps one of them may look remotely like you.  But they all would look different.  The only thing you'd have in common with each of those clones of yourself, is the same genetics.  If you were to say suffer blood loss, then these clones would be able to help you by donating blood.  But seeing as how human cloning is very far into the future, we'll never know.  Its not the technical limitations that are in the way, but the moral issues of it.

Another problem with The Island is this:  How could a large business get away with breaking the law for so long?  The business that creates these clones has been doing it for over 20 years.  The law of that time forbids them from allowing clones to walk about consciously.  They are required by law to create clones which are nothing more than comatose vegetables.  But they allow the clones to have consciousness, awareness, intelligence and be able to learn because these clones produce better quality organs.  The fact they got away with this for over 20 years I feel is unrealistic.  I mean, look at the Enron incident.  That company only got away with fooling the FTA about their true revenues and profit for less than 2 years.  The fact this company on the Island got away with it for 20 years is nearly impossible.  Because there can be a lot of things that happen that shut it all down.  For instance, they may get whistleblowers, federal inspectors may not like what they see, or some of their clones can escape as what happened in the movie.  I'm surprised it took over 20 years for this to happen.
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Ash
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2006, 06:09:31 PM »

You might want to put a Spoilers notice above your thread.
There are probably a few people here who haven't seen the film.
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WyreWizard
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2006, 09:02:23 PM »

ASHTHECAT Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You might want to put a Spoilers notice above your
> thread.
> There are probably a few people here who haven't
> seen the film.


HELLO!!  The Island is over a year old.  Everyone's seen it by now.
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Fearless Freep
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« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2006, 09:51:37 PM »

I haven't.  I'll get around to getting it on NetFlix someday but I have a lot of Vampire movies to work through...
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Fearless Freep
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« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2006, 10:02:16 PM »

Wy-re Wirard has
no sense of perspective for
bad movies dot org

Another haiku
No defense, I'm on a roll
Someone please stop me
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odinn7
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« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2006, 07:26:11 AM »

WyreWizard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ASHTHECAT Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You might want to put a Spoilers notice above
> your
> > thread.
> > There are probably a few people here who
> haven't
> > seen the film.
>
>
> HELLO!!  The Island is over a year old.
> Everyone's seen it by now.

HELLO!
Not everybody has seen it...Ash is right (as much as I hate to say it)...you should include a spoilers notice to be fair to everyone. It seems though, that you don't give a s**t about that as long as you can argue with people here.
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ulthar
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« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2006, 08:16:52 AM »

I haven't seen it, either.  Like Freep, I may someday, but for now, my queue is full of 1950's-1970's horror and sci fi.  The newer stuff can wait.

Glad I didn't read the post, since there was unmarked spoilers in there.
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WyreWizard
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« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2006, 11:44:26 AM »

Ok, do me a favor please and point out the areas in my post where I spoiled the plot.  Where did I reveal character names and character motivations. Where did I reveal what happens in the film that relates to the main story.  I suggest you scrutinize my post the same way I scrutinize every film before you come up with your final answer
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Andrew
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« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2006, 04:56:46 PM »

To someone with no knowledge of the movie, it could contain a spoiler or two.  You did not reveal very much I agree.  However, Ash's request was polite and not something that would require much effort on your part.  Your reply was flippant.

We uphold some standards of polite conversation here.  Please ahere to them as well.  You have been running along the edge of my radar, because you seem to hedge at causing some sort of argument at times.  The board does quite well with accepting different opinions and views.
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Andrew Borntreger
Badmovies.org
WyreWizard
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« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2006, 11:23:36 PM »

Well pardon me for seeing Ash's request hitting me like bricks thrown by Katrina in New Orleans.  Pardon me for liking the challenge of a good debate.  The bad movie junkies from me receive an A+ for being good debaters and and D- for flaming.

Now, why hasn't anyone here come up with an argument about what I said about movies and books showing mistakenly that a clone would look like the person who donated genetic material to replicate it?  Doesn't anyone disagree with me in this area?  I mean, come on!  Don't consider the issue of cloning on the Island, but the issue of cloning in other movies like Multiplicity or other movies who's themes revolve around cloning.
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Babe, I'm leaving.  I must be on my way.  The time is drawing near.  The train is going.  I see it in your eyes.  The love beneath your tears.  And I'll be lonely without you.  And I'll need your love to see me through.  So please me.  My heart is your hands.  And I'll be missing you...
2xSlick
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 01:28:58 AM »

The problem with movies dealing with cloning is that they usually breeze right over the part where they describe what method they used to clone an individual, so you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that the clone is exactly identical genetically to the parent. A clone would have the same eye color, same basic bone structure and facial features and be predisosposed to the same genetic disorders as the parent. However, the clone would not look the same as the donor. For one thing, it would be a hell of a lot younger. Also diet, physical activity, and exposure to sunlight/ pollutants would determine how it looked. Just look at Star Jones (not too long). She lost, what, 80 Ibs? Yet you could still recognize her as the old Star. That's about the maximum difference between you and your clone. As for the clone's in The Island specifically? You'd be lucky if your clone didn't die of Rickets in that place. Even if they forced the clones to drink a gallon of milk a day, they would seriously be sporting a graveyard tan what with having never seen the sun before. Overhead UV lights could only do so much. But take everything I just said with a grain of salt. I only got a B in Genetics and I liked BloodRayne so what the hell do I know?

However, I can speak from personal experience. On my mom's side of the family: if you look at old pictures, her brother, dad, uncle, and grandpa look exactly alike. Same body, face, and hair. It's downright scary.
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dean
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2006, 04:42:47 AM »

Hmmm... I'll give this whole question answering thing a shot...

I think that the whole "Cloning in film" issue is one which is pretty unrealistic at times, true, but like someone else mentioned: they don't exactly go into specifics about how they achieve their cloning process.  For all we know it's all part of some new-fangled technology that allows for it.  But I think the main reason we don't really discuss it too much is that we don't really care.  Realism in movies is a risky business, which can often hurt a movie more than gain for it, even if it is nicely refreshing to have something realistic everynow and then.

Also using Enron as an example of a corporation hiding things from the public isn't exactly a good comparison, realistically speaking of course.  I don't know the specifics [I'm not American so whilst I know a bit about it, I'm not really exposed to the details] but from what I understand they were poorly managed to the point where they couldn't hide it any longer.  But a company like the one in The Island seems to be doing incredibly well for itself money wise, and the cynics amongst us could really just argue that they could buy their way out of trouble.  I see no reason why they couldn't get away with it, as long as business was good and their employees were loyal.  Sure it may take a bit of luck not getting a whistle-blower, and the odds are against it, but, realistically, it could happen.  Not that I think it would, but I'm just saying...

I'm sure there are dozens of companies out there right now 'doing the dodgy' to some degree or another without being caught, so who's to say the comapny in The Island can't do it?

Besides, anyone watching a Michael Bay picture should really automatically know what they're getting into and that the film they're about to watch isn't exactly going to be technologically precise and full of realism, so it's really the audience's own fault for expecting otherwise.  I could tear apart the Island due to it's plot flaws and poor storytelling devices, and not have to even touch the whole 'realism' aspect of it, but that doesn't stop me from being entertained by it.  I mean, I too think it's a stupid movie, and in fact I'm sure you'll find that every single one of the movies reviewed here are probably unrealistic piles of trash, but as they say, one man's trash is another man's treasure, so we don't care how crappy it is, realsitic or not.

So as good as it is to tear apart some films [so far I've yet to see someone on this thread stand up and say 'hey, The Island is pure genius!  It's great!'] I'd really suggest, WyreWizard, that you choose your battles wisely.  Go ahead and pick out the flaws of a movie that's trying to be realistic, and fails, and I'm sure we'll respond well to that, since that's a real error that shouldn't have happened.  

But really, even you have to realise that posing questions of realism to movies such as the Island is kind of pointless.  As nice as it would be for some certain movies to be realistic, and to even have a movie deal with cloning in a realistic light would be refreshing, if you look at cinema history and the way stories are traditionally made, as Scottie brought up in another similar thread, realism and film have had a somewhat long distance relationship. So I guess most of us don't really care too much if the realism comes up a bit short.  It all really depends on the film you're watching.

So I guess the question I'll throw back at ya W.W, since you said you like a good debate [and so do I] is should you really be expecting lighthearted 'comedies' such as Multiplicity, or Arnie action movies like The Sixth Day that deal with cloning to be realistic in the first place?  Personally I'd almost compare it to buying a cup of coffee and taking it back because you didn't realise it was going to be hot.  

But anyways, regardless of all that, I do think it would be nice to have a movie deal with cloning in a more realistic light, and set it out kind of like some wacky Cronenberg film with the clone being horribly disfigured and underdeveloped, and how society deals with something like that.  Could work out nicely in fact.
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ulthar
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2006, 07:42:29 AM »

dean Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  they don't
> exactly go into specifics about how they achieve
> their cloning process.  

>the main reason we don't
> really discuss it too much is that we don't really
> care.

> a movie deal with cloning in
> a more realistic light ... and
> how society deals with something like that.

Dean, you've really hit the point here, imo.  Sci-fi is not about the tech, but our response to it.  So, the details of the cloning, or faster-than-light travel, or artificial intelligence, etc are immaterial.  Fictional technological plot devices are just that - devices creating the underlying tension that drive the plot or develop a character.

The best sci-fi ignores the "how" and "realism" purposefully.  You said it: "who cares?"  What draws us in to a good story is how the characters, much like us now, respond to the stresses created by the storyteller.  It's not rocket science; it's fiction.  As been said 100 times to Wyred, IT IS FICTION.

Now, I am not calling THE ISLAND "good sci fi" by any stretch.  But I do assert that this same rule applies to other genres equally, and certainly to action films.  In fact, most modern movies have some science fiction element that helps create tension and/or drives the plot (hollywood depiction of computer crime, as a common example).

I'll take this opportunity to mention an example of what I think is a good, modern era, science fiction movie.  One that is TOTALLY unrealistic, but a very good, interesting story.  One offered as evidence that the 'tech' does not matter - the exploration of the characters is the guts of what we are watching.  My example is THE FINAL CUT.  The Zoe Implant is more than a bit far fetched.  But the movie is not about that.  It's about Hakman's conflicts, and by our extension OUR conflicts, over personal privacy; it's about Hakman's self discovery, etc, etc.  The same story could have been told without the Zoe Implant/Cutter metaphor, but that sure made it interesting to watch.

The tech is simply the 'glue,' not the 'purpose.'
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------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Professor Hathaway:  I noticed you stopped stuttering.
Bodie:      I've been giving myself shock treatments.
Professor Hathaway: Up the voltage.

--Real Genius
trekgeezer
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2006, 12:50:04 PM »

Hey, I could tell the whole plot of this thing from the frickin' trailer.

Not everybody here runs out to see every movie that comes out so they can pick it apart. I actually like to watch movies that I may just happen to enjoy.

I still don't think WyreWizard gets what we're about.
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2006, 02:17:24 PM »

trek_geezer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still don't think WyreWizard gets what we're
> about.


I agree.  That's the reason why I haven't responded to any of his posts so far, other than this one.

I actually got into an email argument with the guy about a year ago (or longer) after he posted about Goodfellas and how it's awful and should be on the site and such.  Since then, I've not had much time for him.

Overall, The Island was Michael Bay's best film.  It doesn't make sense, but it's much more coherent than his various other films, and it's a blast to watch with the surround sound cranked up.  It's not a film that was supposed to be smart or shed any realistic light on the study/science of cloning.  It was just there so Bay could blow stuff up and use CGI jet bikes.
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