P.O.'d at P.C. : When plots get just sooooooo stupid!

[Flangepart]

Thanks Funk. E. You think i did a better job of responding then i do!  Well, i've posted a response to Nev's resoponse....dang, i need spellcheck! I never expected him to be so...well, so mean! Sounds like he has no compassion for what happened to the U.S.  How else should i respond? Did Al Queda do something he hoped would happen? I don't get it. If something like this (Sep 9/11) had happened to his country, i'd expect him to be angry about it. Do other nation hate us with some reason? likely, but diden't the Great Bird of the Galaxy think reasoning out a problim better then rage? He calls me a "warmonger". He has no idea how many book by soldiers, sailors, Marines, and airmen i've read. By reading thier experiances, i've learned much of the horror of war, without haveing to live it. I conciter myself luckey. War sucks.....can i say iot any plainer? War should ALWAYS be the last resort. How could he miss that? Want a book title? "DEATH TRAPS" by Belton Cooper. Cooper ran a  tank repair unit for Patton's third in the ETO. Conciter the effect on your humanity, haveing to clean out the brains,and guts and blood of men your age. Every day. before you could fix a broken Sherman tank. Warmonger? Neville....you are Soooooo not with it.

[Flangepart]

Dear Andrew. I',m sorry this happened. I never thought this would happen. I never ment it to happen. I was just trying ...well...to throw a rock in the pond, and see where the ripples spread.

[Funk, E.]

If I were to attempt to put on an "objective" POV there are a great many people all over the world who have not benefited from America's foreign policy. I for one do feel not that we deserved the attack, but that we have p**sed off enough people that we kind of asked for it. America is truly the land of spoiled children in a sense. Our relative lack of having to live with terrorism on a daily basis makes the event far more shocking to us than perhaps it would seem to be to the rest of the world. So:
A) It is reasonable to expect a foreign person to be less than sympathetic about the act and
B) to take the act somewhat more casually than we might think appropriate.

Though I still think Nev flew COMPLETELY off the handle there is a reason why his point of view, though it might seem callous to an American, is none-the-less justifiable.

[Scotty Xtreme]

I never thought a discussion on ST would cause so much trouble.  Interesting conversation though.  Nev just needs to cool it a tad.

[Flangepart]

Thanks for the rational response, Andrew and Funk.E . on the question: Has the U.S. made bad calls in international affairs? Of corse. People screw up, and all goverments are made up of just people. All the aspects of human nature affect the decisions made, and when our negitive traits doninate......well, stuff happans. And, sadly, even our positive traits can cause negitive resaults. That was the point i was trying to make. I don't disagree with the ideals of Trek, it;s just that good intentions don't nessarily gurrentee right resaults. In the B5 movie...."In the beginning?" ...the one about the start of the Earth/Mimbari war....The Mimbari fleet approached the Earth fleet with "Gunports open", which to them was a show of respect....but, the Earthers took it as a prelude to attack. Hence, they fired first, and pushed the Mimbari, with Deleins anger driveing it, to all out war. Peace happens when all sides want peace, and are unwilling to risk looseing what they have, and are in agreement that human life is valuable. When someone feels other wise........you get Empire building. Remember the Roman Empire? Oh, i do, and i fear we, as a nation ,are falling to rot from within. But....can that ever make the resault good? Fair? Or preferable? No....i love my country, and i do feel pain at our loss. I wish it on no one. Yet, look at Afganistan. We've done war to the best of our ability....but innocents still get hurt, along with the warmongers. I prefer peace. But, i've been around too long to expect it to last long. I'll be glad when this life is over, but thats because i expect something better in the next. For every one. From this point on, i have nothing more to say. it is over. Thank you for reading.

[Sakerson]

Wow.  Hot Topic.  I agree with you Scotty Xtreme, I never thought Star Trek could cause such a ruckus.  And Neville, you are way out of line.  Saying that Americans deserved what happened on 9/11 is a) War-like, and b) an example of what a callous human being is capable of.  The only thing Flangeport did wrong was disagree with you about the obvious politics on a TV show.  Oh my!  Horror of horrors!  So much for people being open-minded about things.  It was no cause to call him the things you did and it was CERTAINLY no cause to say Americans deserved 9/11.  No one on this planet deserves such an act, and yet I have heard others similar to Neville say the same thing.  It amazes me that people who claim to believe in peace, fairness, and dignity seem to be the most violent human beings I have ever met, and believe me, Neville, what you said makes you far more violent then most people I've known.  I sincerely hope that when you said that you were merely having an emotional reaction and not your true belief on the matter.

It's been said that citizens of countries outside the US are less sympathetic because terrorism is more of a reality for them.  I think this idea of accepting terrorism as a part of the world is a reason why it continues.  No one does anything about because "that's the way it is."  We had one terrorist attack on our soil and we went to war over it.  For Americans, it is not "the way it is."  It is sick and wrong and it must be stopped, period.  This comes around to one of the points Flangeport originally made: Peace works only if both sides want it.  If one side is bound and determined to destroy you, you can either let it happen or fight back, i.e. go to war.  War is a terrible thing to be avoided at all costs, but it can't always be avoided, and sometimes, it shouldn't be avoided.  If we left the terrorists alone, do you really think they would never make another attack again?  Is attacking them, "provoking" them?  History has shown they don't need provocation.  It's only a matter of time before they try it again, unless they are stopped.

Ahem.  Sorry for the long post.  I'm just an American standing up for what he believes in.  

[Funk, E.]

Okay, okay... now that everyone's blood is boiling and the sabers have been rattled can we get back to make loving jabs and Star Trek. We all like the show and we all know it has problems. Lets make fun of them!   8-D

Come on, you can do it! Here I'll start:

Why didn't they ever do an episode about Kirk getting some alien STD?

[Neville]

......I'm sorry fror all the s**t I've just spoken. I did not mean to offend anyone, and I don't intend to comment on political matters for a while. I most sincerley apologize for offending anyone over 9/11, and I won't do so again; not over STAR TREK, anyway.

[Lee]

Funk E., that is wayyyyy messed up!!! Do you really think the network would let them get away with that if Gene brought it up? If he did bring it up you have the answer. lol

[Funk, E.]

Dear Lee:

Dude! it's true though. He bagged every alien chick he could get his *cough* on!
};->

[Flangepart]

Fair enough. Lets just let this die a quite death. Emotions are powerful, and have to be mastered, or they bite the hand that feeds them....if thats any kind of a metaphore!

[Flangepart]

Did you two ever hear "Banned on Argo", by Leslie Fish? Its a famous filk song about ...why Planet argo won't let a certian starship crew have R&R there....Funny song! For example....."Our doctor is gentleman, his privet life is quiet-The shore police arrested him, for inciteing whores to riot-we found him in the city jail, locked on and beamed him free- intact except for hickies, and six kind of V.D!"...."And we're, banned on Argo,every-onennnnnn,Banned on Argo, just for havin' a little fun-"......look for it under Leslies name, and under "FILK". Wonder if Vermin Boy's heard it?

[Funk, E.]

That's hysterical! how did you find that song?
Seriously I think it'd be funny if they had an episode with Kirk illin' looking like the rabbit in Meet the Feebles. Or better still has to go into surgury because one of the aliens had unique anatomy. "I sware doc, she LOOKED human enough..."

"Dammit Jim, I'm an actor not a doctor!"

[Vermin Boy]

Nope, haven't heard that one, but I'll keep an eye out for it on Morpheus. The only Filk bands I'm really familiar with are Ookla the Mok and Luke Ski (whose "Mystery Science Theater Picture Show" would be of particular note to the denizens of this board), though Fish's name does ring a bell.

[BlackAngel]

Funk E. does have a point.  Have you ever wanted to know how some of those aliens *ahem* do it?

And one other thing, didn't DS9 have their first lesbian kiss on the show?  How's that for P.C.?