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September 01, 2014, 03:39:19 AM
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Author Topic: Wizards  (Read 123720 times)
rick
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« Reply #45 on: November 25, 2006, 04:09:49 PM »

  Ok, so I finally got to watch this again. It was just about as freaky as I remember it but I must say it was a bit less immersive on a small screen. I'd forgotten how much 70's style funk was in this flick. That was a bit of a nostalgia trip all on its own. The movie was definitely all that I remembered it to be though. The kind of Saturday-morning-cartoon style of animation used on the elves and fairies takes a bit of getting used to but when you see those whimsically drawn characters subjected to the horrors of war, and superimposed on the background of Nazi Germany, the effect is pretty impressive. There are scenes where you have to be able to loose yourself in the trippy psychedelics or else those scenes might come across as kind of slow and repetitive. This is where being stoned would really come in handy. Also I found some of the voice over acting to be a bit flat in some spots. All that considered I still enjoyed it immensely. My teenage sons may have enjoyed it a bit less that I did but they definitely got a kick out of it, especially the ending. They both went nuts over the final conflict between Avatar and Black Wolf. All in all I would say this is very much worth a look. If you really wanted to take a critical look, there are parts you could tear apart but also parts that you could read some deepness into. I say just watch it and enjoy it for what it is.  
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Moviewierd
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« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2008, 01:47:15 PM »

I actually enjoyed the movie a lot, but I agree it really works better on a large scale screen to get the full impact of the movie. I won't say that it was a great movie but I did find it enjoyable.
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« Reply #47 on: February 12, 2008, 03:39:36 PM »

I was hoping "Fire and Ice" had been reviewed here but was direceted to this film, which has been on the list for more than a decade. I guess I finally have the Fire under me TongueOut Something about the Bakshi movies is so distinct and engaging, though not necessarily in a way that makes me want to say 'I like it'...which invariably makes me more interested.

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« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2008, 03:11:13 PM »

this was one of the greatest movies of the 70's.you really had to be there.and in the right state of mind
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Andrew
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« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2008, 03:09:25 PM »

Review updated on 13 December 2008.  I still love this weird animated film, and think that it is probably Bakshi's master work.
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Andrew Borntreger
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« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2008, 03:37:16 AM »

I love this film and own it on DVD.  Just a few thoughts...

I always thought that Groening based much of Bender on Peace.  According to the IMDB Bio page on Ralph Bakshi, he said "Sweetheart, I'm the biggest ripped-off cartoonist in the history of the world, and that's all I'm going to say."

I haven't watched the film in a few years, but I thought Blackwolf wasn't projecting the films onto the clouds, he was magically bringing them to life.  In other words, the troops and tanks and such in films physically appeared while the projector was running.  This gives me a good reason (as if any was necessary) to watch the film again.

In that picture of Blackwolf and the projector, he reminds me very much of Christopher Lee as Saruman (except with hair).

A few times, you wrote 'Blackhawk' instead of 'Blackwolf'.  I hope you were just confusing 'Blackwolf' with 'Weehawk', and not badmouthing my team!   TeddyR TongueOut

According to the IMDB Trivia page for Wizards, the whole "They killed Fritz" thing was a reference to Fritz the Cat.
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« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2008, 07:44:18 AM »

I think everyone's pretty much covered everything I was going to say about this masterpiece of animation. So I'll just add again that, this is a great, great, great film.  Thumbup
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Andrew
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« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2008, 08:01:49 AM »

I haven't watched the film in a few years, but I thought Blackwolf wasn't projecting the films onto the clouds, he was magically bringing them to life.  In other words, the troops and tanks and such in films physically appeared while the projector was running.  This gives me a good reason (as if any was necessary) to watch the film again.


I definitely thought that the films were being used to inspire Blackwolf's troops.  It does appear that Blackwolf may have been using magic to cause the Nazi propaganda films to cover the clouds over the entire battlefield.  The troops,  including Nazi ghosts, were already there - summoned from Hell separately.

A few times, you wrote 'Blackhawk' instead of 'Blackwolf'.  I hope you were just confusing 'Blackwolf' with 'Weehawk', and not badmouthing my team!   


Twice in paragraph 4 for some reason.  That's just my brain misfiring.  Thank you for catching it.
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Andrew Borntreger
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« Reply #53 on: December 17, 2008, 04:19:29 AM »

Just thought I'd point out. Germany was not alone in the origin of WWI. If anyone is to blame. Blame the Serbs. Also history is written by the victors. Keep in mind Lenin and Trotsky killed 20 million people in the Gulags long before WWII even started. Communism killed around 300 million people world wide and counting. North Korea anyone? If Germany had concerns about the Soviet Union. They were justified. There are Democractic Capitalist countries that still have slavery like India and most of Africa. It's all a matter of perspective. Germany may have invaded Poland. But Poland refused to give back territory that was historic German territory with German speaking populations. That Germans had familiy members in. For it was lost in WWI. Also those German communities were being attacked before Germany invaded. With homes robbed, Churches burnt to the ground and a whole host of other things that Allied Propaganda felt the American public didn't need to know. How about that lie that the Nazis thought the Slavs were subhuman? It's not true. Himmler was married to a Slavic woman. Their decendents are alive and well to this day.  Lookingup  Subhuman was a term used for fellow germans at first. Like heavy drinkers, low I.Q, rapists and crazy people. The Germans even raised an army of Russian soldiers. The Russian Army of Liberation. The ROA. But it was too little too late for them. Now why go on about this? I'm a stickler for facts. Not Propaganda. The Germans during the 1970s were easy to attack as evil. Even though the Communists killed more people before, during and long after the war. And continue to kill people to this day. The flaws of one person are magnified by those that follow him. Governments like people don't operate in a void. Now as far as this movie goes. It has it's moments. I don't think it went over Andrew's head at all. I think his review and perspective
of it is witty and insightful as all of his reviews are. It's not a movie to take seriously as most of the movies on here are not. That's their charm. Whether it's what the makers of them intended or not.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origins_of_World_War_I
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peter johnson
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« Reply #54 on: December 19, 2008, 06:56:12 PM »

Uh, no . . .
Hitler invaded Poland on a made-up pretext that had SS members disguised as Poles attack a German radio station manned by inmates from Dachau concentration camp, who were killed to a man.  This is not US propaganda, but very carefully documented records from the SS's own archives.  There is plenty of truth in the reparations after WW1 driving the initial joy with which Germany embraced Hitler, but the whole concept of Liebensraum did, in fact, presuppose a sub-human Serbian and Ukranian popluace that was to be either extirpated or expatriated -- Himmler wasn't fussy about which.  I've read quite a bit of SS history, and it is quite true that there were Russians, Poles, French -- thousands of French! -- Danes, Belgians, etc., who joined up with the Waffen SS to ostensibly fight Bolshevism, but can we say with a straight face that their lives would have been better off had they won?
* * *
As to the film itself, it has its moments, but I don't like this one anywhere near as much as I like Bakshi's "Heavy Traffic", which, rather than a predictable sword & sorcery fantasy film, enters more of a Charles Bukowski-like world of gritty surrealism and up-close familial violence.  I know lots of folk who hate "Heavy Traffic", and it is apparently impossible to find an uncensored version of it these days, but I was utterly blown away by it in London in 1973 & it still has power.  "Wizards" has some cool monsters, but I find Bode's Cobalt 60 comic strips more satisfying.

peter johnson/denny crane
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Eric Seiden
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« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2008, 08:04:54 PM »

This is a great film. Nothing about it is bad. Sure it's a bit cheesy but it's a true classic. I cannot believe people dislike this film. And there's no reason it should be on a "bad" list.
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« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2008, 08:35:43 PM »

This is a great film. Nothing about it is bad. Sure it's a bit cheesy but it's a true classic. I cannot believe people dislike this film. And there's no reason it should be on a "bad" list.


Did you read the review?  I ask, because I have this strange feeling that you didn't.
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Andrew Borntreger
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« Reply #57 on: December 24, 2008, 01:44:57 AM »

Uh no no no.... I'd sure like to know what SS archives these suppose documents come from. I recall an American movie with such a scene. But no other source. (no hollywood movie is a good source of information) Well correction. No reliable source. I can say with a straight face that Europe would be different than it is today. I know one thing is for sure. Europe wouldn't be falling to the walls of Mecca like it is if Germany won WWII. Is the rampant crime, drug abuse and social decay truly better than what the Germans and Italians had in mind? It's all a matter of perspective. Judging from the way elections have been going in Europe lately. Opinions on History are changing on who were the good guys and bad guys. Seeing as how the Right Wing Parties of Germany and Italy to name just a few have been on a winning streak. If the Germans thought the Poles were subhuman. Himmler would not have married one. They would not have made a stink about the Katyn Forest Massacre http://www.katyn.org.au/ . Another event the Allied Governments
thought the American public didn't need to know. That being what our gallant ally was up to.
http://www.katyn.org.au/naziphotos.html
I can also say with a straight face Eastern Europe would not have been turned over the Communist butchers that killed millions more after the war was over. Another thing our Government knew quite well but was silent on. Or how about our Government leaving 30,000 allied troops in the hands of the Communists than run the risk of letting Stalin have leverage? By the way. Every method of eugenics the Germans used came from the United States. Something else lost to the history books. The United States stopped doing it in the 1960s.



Uh, no . . .
Hitler invaded Poland on a made-up pretext that had SS members disguised as Poles attack a German radio station manned by inmates from Dachau concentration camp, who were killed to a man.  This is not US propaganda, but very carefully documented records from the SS's own archives.  There is plenty of truth in the reparations after WW1 driving the initial joy with which Germany embraced Hitler, but the whole concept of Liebensraum did, in fact, presuppose a sub-human Serbian and Ukranian popluace that was to be either extirpated or expatriated -- Himmler wasn't fussy about which.  I've read quite a bit of SS history, and it is quite true that there were Russians, Poles, French -- thousands of French! -- Danes, Belgians, etc., who joined up with the Waffen SS to ostensibly fight Bolshevism, but can we say with a straight face that their lives would have been better off had they won?
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« Reply #58 on: December 24, 2008, 03:38:50 AM »

^ It's a only a movie dude, no need for a history lesson  Smile
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WingedSerpent
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« Reply #59 on: December 24, 2008, 11:43:29 AM »

There's a movie spoiler site called www.moviepooper.com that gives a different view of the characters.

Here's what it says

The gooood, nature-protecting, pixie-loving wizard Avatar (voice of Bob Holt) finally catches up with his eeeevil, technology-loving, machine-obsessed brother Blackwolf (voice of Steve Gravers), and shoots him dead with a pistol.
 
(Aside: a decade after seeing "Wizards," your editor still can't tell if this irony was the result of intent or ignorance on the part of director Ralph Bakshi. If it was intentional, then this is a brilliant bit of cinema that uses the tools of physical appearance and point-of-view characterization to trick us, the audience, into empathy with the cruel yet beautiful oppressors. He presents an Eloi-vs-Morlocks style conflict in which the "Eloi" are the actual cause of the "Morlocks'" suffering. If Mr. Bakshi wasn't fully aware of the statement he was making, then this is a rather pathetic movie, in which a particularly American style of imperialism is so prevalent and subtle that an example can be invisible to even its creator. Think about it, won't you?)



Just to make sure I'm giving the site its credit it diserves here's the link to to it
http://www.moviepooper.com/

Then just search the categories by alphabetical order.

On a side note, I love movie spoilers sites for films I've already seen.  Often they catch something I missed first time round.
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