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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Movies  |  Press Releases and Film News  |  Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home... « previous next »
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Author Topic: Chris Benoit, wife Nancy and son Daniel found dead in their home...  (Read 16925 times)
indianasmith
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« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2007, 12:18:17 PM »

Anubis, you and I are probably on totally different ends of the spectrum politically and philosophically, but you do raise a valid point.  People do things in the throes of mental illness and drug addiction that they would never do in their right mind.  None of us can know what was going on in Benoit's tortured mind in those last desperate hours, but my belief in a living God comforts me with the fact that beyond this broken world there is a pure, and eternal justice that is tempered by divine mercy.

Now, before you brand me as a brainless fundamentalist, remember that I am actually agreeing with you! Lookingup
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madbliza
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« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2007, 12:19:37 PM »

I love your different point of view. It reminds me of the difference of views that exist in the world. For instance, the Japanese belief of suicide being honorable. The kill one self for failure, to save face, to save pride. I cannot even fathom trying to kill myself. While others can see it as honorable confuses me.

Which brings me to the point. Benoit killed himself. Was it an honorable death then?
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2007, 12:49:51 PM »

Now now Indiana, as long as religious people aren't stuffing their beliefs down my throat and condemning me for eternity for disagreeing, you're welcome to worship whomever you want to worship and believe what you want to believe. Somebody can worship a half-eaten grilled cheese sandwich that bears a slight resemblance to Jack Nicholson for all I care, as long as they don't tell me that I'm wrong for not worshiping said celebrity snack deity myself and as such I'll require years of harassment until I finally give in and join the club. Personally I hold pretty much every religion in the same regard. As senseless as everyone finds Scientology to be, I guarantee you that if Tom Cruise had a time machine and could pinpoint the moment when the original guy started selling his Bible mythology to the masses and replaced it with "Dianetics" instead, the majority of the religious followers on the planet would be spooking their kids with Xenu instead of Satan. But, I digress, life is based on perceptions and nobody's more right or wrong than they can convince themselves they are. As such, if any of the major religions other than Buddhism are for real, I'm f*cked either way, so why stress, right?  TongueOut

As for Benoit's suicide being honorable Bliza, who's to say. The guy committed two intolerable acts against people he was supposed to love and care for. Did he kill himself because he thought it was the honorable thing to do to make up for his crimes: taking his own life after robbing two people of theirs, whatever the circumstances? If so, some could call that honorable. Was it the last desperate act of a guy who realized what he'd done and was too ashamed or afraid to deal with the fallout of his actions? If so, most people would call that cowardly and the last desperate act of a worm of a human being. Personally, if I'd done what he had, I'd probably have killed myself too, whether because I felt horrible for what I'd done afterwards, because I'd be too afraid to live with the consequences of my actions, or a combination of both. How do I feel about Benoit doing it to himself? Without knowing what was going through his mind at the time (unless a secret suicide note comes up that explains as such), I don't have enough information to make a judgment. I'd like to think he did it to try and atone for his own acts, but I refuse to dispute the possibility it was out of cowardice.
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2007, 01:33:21 PM »

For anyone interested in how Vince McMahon reacted to the tragedy in his Today Show interview earlier, here's the link. Whether he's still distancing his company from the murders or is voicing his personal feeling on the matter, we've got another member for the "Benoit was a monster, plain and simple" camp.
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
madbliza
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« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2007, 02:11:32 PM »

I didn't really care if it was cowardice or not. I just wanted to get a response to see your point of view. I find it incredible that you cannot summon a definite side concerning this issue. A person's stance defines them and their personality. What is acceptable and what is unacceptable in that person defines who they are and how they react to certain situations.

In this particular case, I find it discouraging that you are defending a man who you won't pass any sort of judgement on. In my opinion, there is a definable right and a definable wrong.

Also, I do want to say that Benoit is not a monster in my eyes either. He's just a victim of his own choices. He didn't have to take the roids, if that truly is the case. He didn't seek help for his apparent mental condition, another choice he made. He could've done a million things to help himself and he chose not to. His inaction caused this event and that cannot be denied.
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2007, 03:07:41 PM »

In this particular case, I find it discouraging that you are defending a man who you won't pass any sort of judgement on. In my opinion, there is a definable right and a definable wrong.

Fortunately I'm not concerned with your opinion of me nor am I concerned at how my opinions apparently affect your life. I don't know who are, I don't care who you are, and so far nothing you've said has convinced me that I should change that opinion. All I'm getting are flashbacks of people who hated Switzerland for being neutral and Bush ad campaigns attacking John Kerry for being a "flip-flopper".

As far as defending Chris Benoit goes, I reiterate once again that I'm not defending his actions, I'm trying to support an environment of open-mindedness that people shouldn't pass judgment until whatever facts are made available are made as such. I'm putting forth the notion that the only people that know for sure what happened here are sitting in a coroner's office being dissected, and that the only thing anyone else is going to have are opinions and not a solid understanding of what happened. I guess "innocent until proven guilty" and things like "reasonable doubt" are just rhetoric for some people and I hope said people aren't currently dressed in black robes and banging gavels behind a big podium somewhere. As stated before, if you're happy with a world of black & white, more power to you. I prefer to question everything and live based on the concept that everything is based on an individual's perception. This is obviously going to vary from person to person, something I've acknowledged several times in this thread. I prefer to be open enough to allow my opinions to change based on what information is presented to me. At the same time, I'm not voicing my displeasure in you for holding onto a personal belief that people who don't live up to your standards, whether that requires them siding with you in matters like this or just opting not to settle for one choice or the other. If you don't like it then, as a wise man once said, "tough sh!t" because your opinion matters no more or less than my own. The only difference is that I continue to support/defend my opinion while I see you jumping from "I love your different point of view" in one post to being disappointed in me for not choosing a side because I don't feel there's enough evidence to do so and that by doing so I somehow define myself and my personality, which apparently supersedes my prior statements.

I don't respect individuals unless they earn said respect, but I do respect your anyone's right to an opinion. This doesn't mean I'm going to agree with that by any means, especially not if you choose to go beyond disagreeing with my choice and turn it into what looks to be some kind of thinly veiled attack on me for feeling that way. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but that's what it looks like from my viewpoint.

And yes, I agree that whatever happened was the result of choices and mistakes on Benoit's part, albeit choices and mistakes made while in what I myself speculate as being an extremely distressed and mentally altered state of mind. "Altered" in the sense of insanity and rage, and not in the chemical sense... unless the toxicology report comes back positive for any mood altering substances, in which case, as with every other piece of information that's come in during this week, more will be added to the story and my opinion could change.
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
madbliza
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« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2007, 03:40:57 PM »

You know what, I tried to make it not look like I was attacking your personally, but if you want to take it that way, fine. I give. You are right and I'm a fool for living in my black and white world of definable rights and wrongs.

Feel better?
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2007, 04:08:09 PM »

Dude, you're missing the point of what I just said: keep your opinion, I'm not trying to make you agree with me. If you want to agree with me, that's fine, so long as it's what you believe to be true in your own mind, man. I'm not here to be appeased and just following along with me isn't my goal, just don't tell me you're disappointed in me for not choosing a side on a topic like "was Chris Benoit killing himself honorable or cowardly" and telling me that said decision is going to be the basis for your opinion of me. None of this is being said in anger or in an effort to "convert you", I just want to state my side of the equation and support it and I apologize if I came off sounding like the people I'm trying not to be. The offensive parts of what I said aren't directed toward you or any single individual Bliza. I'm not here to make enemies man, especially not over a topic that doesn't concern either of us personally. Like I said before, you've got your opinion, I've got my opinion and in the ultimate scheme of things, neither one matters. The same goes for everybody. I appreciate everybody's opinion and most out of all out of this I appreciate that Indy stepped forth and stands by his faith, leaving the judgment up to God and not himself. Anyway Bliza, Peace?  Thumbup
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2007, 04:31:44 PM »

Off of the personal stuff now and back to the investigation:

"An anonymous user operating a computer traced to Stamford, Conn. — home to World Wrestling Entertainment — posted an entry to pro wrestler Chris Benoit's biography on Wikipedia.org announcing the death of his wife Nancy at least 13 hours before police in suburban Atlanta said they found her body along with her husband's and that of their 7-year-old son, FOXNews.com has learned. Employees at Wikipedia.org said the posting went live on their site on Monday at 12:01 a.m. Eastern Standard Time. Police, however, said they found the bodies Monday at 2:30 p.m. EDT."
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
indianasmith
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A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2007, 04:43:45 PM »

I just saw that!  Creepy, eh?  I wonder if he typed it himself, there in the house with two dead bodies . . . geesh, life is weirder than any B-movie!
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"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2007, 04:48:11 PM »

Wikipedia says that the ip address of the computer used to make the posting came from Stamford Connecticut... the home of WWE's corporate offices... this should be interesting.
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
madbliza
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« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2007, 04:56:42 PM »

That just proves my WWE spin theory. Whooo hooo!
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Snivelly
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« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2007, 05:00:48 PM »

I read something at Fox News that suggested former wrestler Kevin Sullivan (Nancy's Benoit's former husband) could be connected to these deaths and the death of Sherri Martel a few days before.  Gotta love the Internet rumor mill.
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2007, 05:21:01 PM »

I don't think I've ever heard a rational person use the terms "love" and "Fox News" in the same post before. Hahaha.

Though it doesn't quite prove the spin theory yet Bliza, it does lend credibility to the possibility until something solid comes up. The strange part is that the entry only mentions the wife's death and not the son's, so I don't know if it was a post by someone based on speculation regarding the news that Benoit had to rush home for an undefined "family emergency", or if the person really knew what had happened. Being a criminal investigation, I imagine that the computer from which the post originated will be investigated and hopefully linked back to someone, as I'm very curious about where this latest turn of events takes us. Though I still think it's unlikely, if it turns out that WWE really did know about everything before the authorities and acted with this kind of irresponsibility, I'm gonna have to rethink how I spend my Friday nights...
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"Don't make me stain my last clean shirt with the back of your head." - Shatter Dead
"A grizzly bear with a chainsaw. Now THERE's a killing machine!" - The Simpsons
"I've always wanted to make love to an angry welder." - Jaws: the Revenge
Scott
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« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2007, 06:39:43 PM »

Because of how he ended his life I'd have to believe he did it. The fact is he murdered them. In society we have certain rules of behavior and laws that enforce those codes of conduct. They fluctuate between people and cultures, but murder is generally a punishable by prison or death.

There is no real honor here, but we can look at and study it a bit from Benoit's point of view which is what tombofanubisdotcom is doing. For a World Champion to go to jail for killing his family. I guess he wished he hadn't done it and then figured he may as well end it when reality set in. Maybe it was premeditated. Could the first murder have been an accident? Is there more to this than simple strangulation? Was he really mad at her? Sounds like he was, but the child's murder really doesn't make sense. He was certainly delusional to kill his son even if he was a special needs child. Because we don't do that in our society. We learn from those around us. Where did he learn that? How much did the WWE people know? A lot of questions. Again we are just bystanders getting the latest pieces to the puzzle.

Strange that Kevin Sullivan's name has come up. I don't believe he had anything to do with it, but she was married to him and she left him for Benoit. The whole business is like a traveling circus out of control. They have a really bad lifestyle and to be on top you have to have big muscles, or do suicide falls that cripple you when your old, and you must be one of the gang just to compete because it's show business. They said on the news that a pro wrestlers mortality rate is 12 % higher than the average people. That's Pro Wrestling today.

What happened to the days when semi-fit guys got in the ring with simple arm bars and headlocks, without music, and fireworks when entering the ring? What happen to those super-heroes?

I was never a fan of Benoit. The fans, Vince, and the so called "locker room leaders" of the wrestling business are partially at fault as well for making the sport what it is today. Haven't really enjoyed Pro Wrestling myself since the early 80's, but must admit I liked the Monday Night wars between WWF and WCW with ECW also in the mix.

Strangely Wrestling was better off when they wouldn't admit that the sport was fake. The only deaths back then were travel related.

It's ok to chat and exercise our brains about this subject. It helps everyone a little. Maybe it's time fans back away from this "Pro Wrestling" thing till they make it less dangerous. Maybe this should be the end of Pro Wrestling.

Owen Hart, Eddie Guererro, Brian Pillman, Rick Rude, Chris Candido, and many more early deaths and all for nothing. It's no longer fun to watch. It's not that they all died, but rather the reasons they all died.

This business is enough to make one sick. Wonder if the crowds will feel the same way in a few days. I have no desire to watch even the occasional match anymore.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 06:48:56 PM by Scott » Logged

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