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October 21, 2014, 09:10:38 AM
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Author Topic: Just saw Halloween  (Read 5271 times)
Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2007, 08:19:53 AM »

Before I go about replying to this thread again, I figured I should copy over what I had written on the other Halloween thread:

SPOILERS!

Well, I saw it last night with a group of friends.  My wife and I petitioned for Superbad but ended up getting ruled out 4-2.  So, Halloween it was....

First, let me say this movie is f***ing dark.  I'm not talking dark in the moral sense, I'm talking DARK.  If it wasn't a daylight scene then I couldn't tell what the hell was going on.  This is especially true for the ending.  I couldn't tell much of what was happening in the last 30 minutes or so.  Not that I cared.

My other problem is that the beginning of the films seemed like "Devil's Rejects Lite".  F You, F This, MotherFer, Faggot, blah, blah blah.  The inital tone of the film turned me off from the beginning and couldn't get me back into the film from that point.  Everyone in the film, with the exception of the underused Danny Trejo, talks like a redneck sailor.  This includes to some extent little innocent Laurie Strode who likes to call her friends "b***hes" quite often.

Another problem with the film is that it is so unintentionally funny.  Watching little Michael Myers sit on a curb crying while his mother is stripping instead of taking him trick-or-treating would actually work, if Nazareth's "Love Hurts" wasn't playing over top of it.  I couldn't help but start to giggle at the scene, and that was only the beginning of the humor.  A few minutes later, little Mikey is going on his killing spree through the house and puts on the iconic white-Shatner mask.  He then stalks his sister around the house with it on.  Seeing this midget version of Michael with the iconic mask on is actually creepy for a moment but then we get shot after shot of him and it becomes downright hilarious.  I was caught in an unstoppable fit of laughter as were most of the others in the theater.  I know damn well that was NOT Zombie's intention.

Most of the critics out there really liked the first third of the film with Michael's backstory.  Me...well, I HATED IT.  I didn't like the kid playing Michael, and the "humanizing" of him just doesn't work.  After Michael escapes fromt the asylum, everything that had been previously established disappears.  He turns into the old Michael Myers that we used to know except now he's a F'ING TERMINATOR at about 20 foot tall and 1000 pounds of muscle.  Zombie really missed the mark by hiring Tyler Mane as Michael.  The Shape shouldn't be a huge hulking destroyer of a man, he should be just a normal guy.  That's what made the original so scary.

Also, the kills in the film don't work for me at all.  Zombie sticks to normal weapons and kills to try to hold some authenticity to the film, but I would have actually liked some interesting kills.  Kills by baseball bat, knife, etc aren't that interesting anymore despite Zombie's attempts to make them so.  Not only are the kills boring but Zombie's "shaky-cam" style made me want to vomit.  I can handle a bit of shaky-cam but when I'm already straining to see what's happening in the all of the darkness, it gets a bit annoying.

Then there are the breasts.  Now I'm a fan of breasts, trust me.  But I found in this film that anytime a new female character was introduced, we would certainly see her breasts.  It got a bit redundant.  To be honest, most of them are not very good except for the girl who plays Lynda, who still doesn't do a good of a "job" as PJ Soles in the original.

Anyway, for those who don't want to read this long post, let me shorten it up.  This film isn't terrible, but it is unneeded.  Zombie does make a film that is passable as a slasher but isn't REMOTELY close to the original.  It's a film that will be forgotten; a Halloween for the Saw generation.  It almost feels like Zombie was trying to make Texas Chainsaw Massacre rather than Halloween, but whatever...he's the director.  I just hope this film doesn't ruin his carrer.

Also, I have obtained a workprint of the film and vowed not to watch it until I had seen Zombie's theaterical version.  I'll see about watching it soon and see what's different.  Supposedly it's much better.  We will see.











Ok, so there is my honest opinion about the film.  My question to those that prefer the remake/recashing on a franchise name - do you like the original?  I've found that most of the people that find the film to be enjoyable do not like the original.  I myself was not a fan of the original for a long time.  I felt it to be boring.  After a few viewings, I grew to love it and still find it to be quite possibly the best slasher of it's time.

DistantJ mentions that the film is good because it does away with all of the backstories from the previous films.  See, I'm one who believes that the Halloween franchise ended after the second film.  I love H3: Season Of The Witch but everything after it was crap.  For me, Michael died in that hospital explosion.  I don't believe that all of the films are canon.

I want someone to watch any modern slasher and then go watch Zombie's Halloween and tell me if they see any difference.  I see NOTHING about the film that separates it from the other modern slashers.  True, it's very violent which is rare in our time.  But, Zombie makes the violence BORING.  The only kill in the film that actually disturbed me was of Michael's tormentor.  I have to say that scene was completely effective but nothing after that was.

My biggest problem with the film is that Zombie starts out by not remaking Halloween while the second half is nearly a complete remake.  As soon as Michael gets to Haddonfield, we get a rehashing of the original.  If you want to reimagine a film, then you take the basic idea and turn it into something that is your own.  The new Dawn Of The Dead did a great job of this.  It took the basic idea - Zombies+Mall - and made a NEW story out of those elements.  If Zombie had held on to that idea as he did with the first third of Halloween, then this might have been a good film.  But, he decides to go back and remake exactly what Carpenter created and he fails.  It just doesn't work.   

I'm not trying to start an argument with my comments.  I respect everyone's opinions, especially on this board.  It is just that I can't believe the huge amount of Zombie fanboy backlash against us descenders.  I much prefer the John Carpenter original and hold it as a classic, and I always will.  I prefer "The Shape" much more than I do little white trash Mikey.  People can shout their praise of this film all they want but I promise you that no one will remember the film in five years.  As I said in my initial review, it's not an abomination of celluloid, it's just unnecessary.  No one was clamoring for a Halloween remake, and now we get a film that is just mediocre and doesn't seem any different than any other straight to video slasher.
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DistantJ
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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2007, 02:17:20 PM »

I don't understand why something being unnecessary automatically makes it bad, though? I mean is any movie necessary? If Rob Zombie had made just another movie with a new killer I probably would have never gotten around to seeing it. I really enjoyed seeing Halloween revamped, and everything I hoped to see in it was included - the musical theme, the mask, particular scenes. I found the killings in it to be very disturbing and frightening which hasn't happened in a slasher in a long time. In fact I'd say this was the best "masked man slasher movie" of the new millenium.

From wednesday to sunday I received hundreds of extremely angry, hateful emails from Rob Zombie fans that couldn't believe that I didn't kneel before it.  Film Fiend had a similar experience and actually shut his comments off until the a***oles went away.  I emailed the guy at Dread Central that reviewed it negatively as well to find that he was being bombarded, too.

What the hell is wrong with people?
People can be a***oles online, can't they? Critics who have been positive about it have been recieving similiar hateful comments from people, questioning their "credibility as a movie critic" et cetera. Some people are just messed up.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2007, 02:19:09 PM by DistantJ » Logged
Torgo
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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2007, 04:23:36 PM »

Not nearly as dreadful as a lot of critics have made it out to be but also nothing that I call a "good" movie as well.

In some weird way, Rob Zombie took elements from not just the 1st Halloween, but also parts 2, 4, and 5 and mixed them into some kind of white trash blender.

I wouldn't say it was boring (which is the worst sin that a movie can make) but I wasn't all that entertained either.

It was very well made on a technical level however.

I would give it ** out of ****.
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Fishasaurus
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« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2007, 04:47:07 PM »

Damn was this movie good. Rob Zombie did a excellent job of taking the original and giving it more depth, especially with Michael and his family, and greatly increasing the brutal bloody carnage of Michaels  killing spree.

Well put.  I saw this yesterday and watched every frame with pleasure.  I'm suprised by the sense of betrayal, not to say violation, I'm seeing in others who have already watched it.  But then I am far fromin love with the original.  It was no great shakes to me.

When you see how much the Zom has learned in the course of making only three movies (that we have gotten to see, at least), it impresses me even more.  Not to mention the warm, glowy feeling of knowing that a major rock star married to a minor porn star can be a drooling fanboy about B-horror, just like yours truly. 

*dashes away a sentimental tear*
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AnubisVonMojo
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« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2007, 05:10:20 PM »

Smells like Mr. Z's latest is a major entry in the "love it or hate it" category, but then I pretty much expected it between the director and the fact that it's a remake. Seeing it this weekend and as neither a loyalist to Zombie nor the original Halloween, I'm not really holding any predetermined like or dislike before going in. Either way, I'm still p**sed that Grindhouse got such a box office shafting... what that has to do with anything here I don't know, some gripes just never die...  Hatred
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2007, 05:17:19 PM »

DistantJ,

When I say that the film is unnecessary I mean that it is unimportant.  It does nothing new.  It has nothing unique within it's runtime.  It's the same thing that we see go straight to video.  Just because of it's name recognition and Zombie being behind the camera, it got a wide release.  It's just not the great film that a lot of people are making it out to be.  Granted it could have been much worse, but it falls into the same category as Gus Van Sant's 'Psycho' for me.  It just doesn't matter.  It adds nothing interesting to the story, and in my opinion is much less interesting than the original.

I know that my opinion won't change anything but it seems that no matter whom I mention it to, I get ripped apart for saying it's not good. 
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"The greatest medicine in the world is human laughter. And the worst medicine is zombie laughter." -- Jack Handey

A bald man named Savalas visited me last night in a dream.  I think it was a Telly vision.
DistantJ
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« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2007, 07:16:01 AM »

I wasn't ripping you apart, just questioning you choice of the word 'unnecessary'. I enjoyed the hell out of it for an early Halloween treat, and this movie brings Michael Myers to a new generation who will find the original very boring and dated now.

I also thought it was great to finally be seeing a proper man-in-mask slasher movie again in this age of zombies and manipulative puppets on tricycles.

People act like the original Halloween was Citizen Kane or Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho or something - it was a very basic movie John Carpenter made on a shoestring budget to bring in a bit of cash. It was a good horror movie, sure, but it's not some kind of holy grail and it has become dated and less effective.
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2007, 07:40:49 AM »

I wasn't ripping you apart, just questioning you choice of the word 'unnecessary'. I enjoyed the hell out of it for an early Halloween treat, and this movie brings Michael Myers to a new generation who will find the original very boring and dated now.

I also thought it was great to finally be seeing a proper man-in-mask slasher movie again in this age of zombies and manipulative puppets on tricycles.

People act like the original Halloween was Citizen Kane or Alfred Hitchcock's Psycho or something - it was a very basic movie John Carpenter made on a shoestring budget to bring in a bit of cash. It was a good horror movie, sure, but it's not some kind of holy grail and it has become dated and less effective.

Hey man, I know you weren't ripping me apart, but that seems to be the reaction elsewhere.  I agree, it was good to see Michael again but it just didn't feel like a "Halloween" film to me.  It's no better than any of the films after Season Of The Witch, IMHO.  It just doesn't have the same feel to it.  Everything felt rushed, the characterization of Laurie and her friends was nil, and it just wasn't original.

I'm glad that a lot of people enjoyed it.  If this brings around a new surge of horror films, then that is great.  I just wish that Zombie would have made a film that could stand apart from it's name and really be a good film.  Instead he made a generic slasher with a few good ideas that don't come together the way they should.

I admit that I love the original and that some of that adoration is clouding my judegment.  I loved how Carpenter went for subtly over violence.  He used tension to create fear, not gore.  Don't get me wrong, I'm always happy to see gore in a horror film if it is used correctly.  In Zombie's film though, it was just boring.  It was everything we had seen before.  I was hoping for something more inventive out of the guy. 
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"The greatest medicine in the world is human laughter. And the worst medicine is zombie laughter." -- Jack Handey

A bald man named Savalas visited me last night in a dream.  I think it was a Telly vision.
DistantJ
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« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2007, 09:08:40 AM »

I actually really liked how it went for realistic deaths even though they were explicit. I used to admire Halloween's realism compared to the 'creativity kills' of Friday the 13th and the Halloween sequels, because it felt like it could be real. What I admired the most about the new Halloween was how the kills all felt so real. The way he left Annie dying, not dead, and didn't care.

I also really liked how Michael actually wanted to find Laurie but not to actually kill her, until she p**sed him off, at which point he went for her too. I really, really liked that.

Adoration of an older version of a movie will always make a remade version seem worse than it is, even when the remake is already bad as it is. I have a pretty open mind so I'm happy with the changes made to Halloween, as I say, it's Halloween for a new generation who are after more raw, explicit horror, otherwise there'd be no point in remaking it, they would just re-release it like The Exorcist, but I do admit I'm probably going to find myself being extremely critical of the upcoming Evil Dead remake, and I would be incredibly harsh if they ever remade The Exorcist.

If you're interested, here's my full review:

http://www.hooplanet.co.uk/article.php?subaction=showfull&id=1189000014&archive=&start_from=&ucat=8&
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Jim H
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« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2007, 12:43:01 AM »

Quote
completely removed "mythical being who can't die" business

Yeah, uh...  ***SPOILERS****




He just got stabbed deep into the chest, shot in the chest, then shot 3 times with a .357 magnum without any ill effects







**END****





I'll just say I found the film pretty bad.  A lot of the scenes which were attempts to be creepy were just laughable, like the looks of Myer's as a kid.  The entire prologue is utterly pointless.  Did I gain insight?  Yeah, maybe a little, if you mean in the generic "a to b to c" pathway to serial killerdom that the movie gives you.  Very dull and a waste of time.

It wasn't entirely bad...  The first kill in the movie worked.  McDowell was...  OK, though constrained by bad writing.  Sometimes it was trying to be funny, in an apparent attempt to remove any tension or suspense, but hey, at least at times it actually WAS funny.  Forsythe, while he destroys any drama of the opening scenes, is so ludicrous he entertained me at least.

Simpy put though, Halloween is mostly just dull. 
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2007, 08:02:00 AM »

Simply put though, Halloween is mostly just dull. 

Jim, I've been posting about this film for nearly a week now and you said exactly what I've been trying to say in a single sentence.  Simplicity is amazing isn't it? 

Karma to you.
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"The greatest medicine in the world is human laughter. And the worst medicine is zombie laughter." -- Jack Handey

A bald man named Savalas visited me last night in a dream.  I think it was a Telly vision.
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