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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  2008 Presidential Candidates « previous next »
Poll
Question: Which 2008 Presidential Candidate do you think is best?
Joe Biden - 0 (0%)
Hillary Rodham Clinton - 2 (9.1%)
Chris Dodd - 0 (0%)
John Edwards - 0 (0%)
Rudolph Giuliani - 2 (9.1%)
Mike Gravel - 1 (4.5%)
Mike Huckabee - 0 (0%)
Duncan Hunter - 0 (0%)
Alan Keyes - 0 (0%)
Dennis Kucinich - 0 (0%)
John McCain - 0 (0%)
Barack Obama - 2 (9.1%)
Ron Paul - 1 (4.5%)
Bill Richardson - 0 (0%)
Mitt Romney - 2 (9.1%)
Tom Tancredo - 0 (0%)
Fred Thompson - 2 (9.1%)
None Of The Above - 1 (4.5%)
We Need A New Election Process - 2 (9.1%)
Christopher Walken - 1 (4.5%)
General Zod - 0 (0%)
Arnold Schwarzenegger - 1 (4.5%)
Al Gore - 0 (0%)
Newt Gingrich - 0 (0%)
Pat Buchanan - 0 (0%)
Alfred E. Neuman - 0 (0%)
Zacherle - The Cool Ghoul - 4 (18.2%)
Pat Paulson - 0 (0%)
Cthulhu - 1 (4.5%)
Stephen Colbert - 0 (0%)
IndianaSmith - 0 (0%)
CheezeFlixz - 0 (0%)
AndyC - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 22

Pages: 1 ... 5 6 [7] 8
Author Topic: 2008 Presidential Candidates  (Read 17752 times)
RCMerchant
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« Reply #90 on: November 09, 2007, 12:41:43 PM »

 I dunno...I wish there was a canidate I could feel comfertable with. But I am totally dissilllusioned by the constant dishonesty and and nepotism in goverment. The super rich and clever will continue to exploit the poor and ignorant. And that's dangerous....Because when the goverment stops caring about the poor-that's could lead to some serious problems.

 I myself make a little over 10.00 an hour. I generally work about 45 hours a week. Tara Sue is on kemo--- she is bedridden a vast majority of the time. I have NEVER applied for welfare...I agree that throwing money and handouts to the poor is merely enabling alot of them to remain that way. Why work if the money is free? And boredom is a big time breeding ground for alcholism and drug addiction. I don't have the answers...but I have'nt heard of any solutions they would work. Back in the Great Depression-people WANTED to work...to improve their lot. Nowadays,it seems that the welfare state has robbed them of that.

  The powers that be have lost site of the real day to day hardships of life for the lower classes. They are comfertable sending the poor and ignorant off to die for there oil interests. Tara Sue's son is in Iraq right now. He's a grunt in the Army. Living in an agricultreal community...the job options are mighty slim. And Jim didn't have a real great school record. So collage was out. The service is a way out for a man...and to keep the poor ignorant is a good way to supply manpower for the war. And educating the poor to qualify for better paying jobs means that no one would be here...in towns like Lawton...to put food on your table. Or make parts for your oil burners. It's a viscious circle. Keep the mexicans out? Will YOU work for under the table wages picking cabbage or fruit? Or in a factory at 70 hours a week in a non unionshop;,no health benifeits,or retirement benifeits? I do......yet I am the exception to the rule. Most of even the full time workers are eligible for some kinda welfare...I refuse it on ethical grounds. I believe in the work ethic. And it works...I own my old fixer upper farm house...and I am proud of what I have worked hard for. But that is rare in a welfare nation. Do I have the answer. Hell no! But of those running for office-I think they have less of a clue than me. Because they don't live here. And they may say they care...but I highly doubt they loose much sleep over it.

  But I believe in miracles! Zacherle is still in the lead!!!  Smile
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« Reply #91 on: November 09, 2007, 12:49:08 PM »

RCMerchant, I hear ya.

If I didn't have a family I would just enter the monastery.

Actually it's been said that the feudal system was the best way of life. Not that I entirely agree. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 09:19:02 PM by Scott » Logged

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« Reply #92 on: November 09, 2007, 12:57:32 PM »

As far as compulsory voting, they did a study about 10 or 15 years ago concerning "uninformed voters", people who weren't interested in politics or informed on any of the issues, but who showed up to vote because they thought it was the thing to do.  Anyhow, they asked them what issues were important to them, what their stance was on those issues, and who they voted for.  As might be expected, about 50% of them voted for a candidate who had views which were diametrically opposed to their own. 



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« Reply #93 on: November 09, 2007, 01:01:35 PM »

But I believe in miracles! Zacherle is still in the lead!!!  Smile
Well said, BELA.   Thumbup
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« Reply #94 on: November 09, 2007, 02:33:23 PM »

RCMerchant makes a good point. I'm pretty sure my views have been shaped by the newspaper business, first working long hours for minimum wage in production and circulation, then working tons of unpaid overtime in the newsroom on a straight salary. My situation has improved considerably, with having two incomes in the family a big part of that. I now have the challenge of working under the same expectations while putting my family first.

But what used to annoy me to no end was that for all those years in my 20s, driving an old beater, living at home, wearing the cheapest clothes I could find, never taking a real vacation, I was never considered poor enough to get any breaks from anyone. I hated not being able to afford nice things, yet never qualifying for any kind of assistance if, for example, I wanted to further my education or do something else to try and get ahead.

It's the people working their butts off for low pay who deserve a break.
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« Reply #95 on: November 09, 2007, 09:26:41 PM »

Speaking of the News Media. Do you think they should be allowed to report on the candidates? Being that the news media is in business to make money?

AndyC have you ever been told you can't cover a news story? or heard of fellow workers being told they can't report a story?

Or do they simple send a reporter on a given assignment? How free are you to ask what you want and have it published or aired?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 09:28:40 PM by Scott » Logged

CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #96 on: November 09, 2007, 10:50:22 PM »

Quote
I wish there was a canidate I could feel comfertable with. But I am totally dissilllusioned by the constant dishonesty and and nepotism in goverment. The super rich and clever will continue to exploit the poor and ignorant. And that's dangerous....Because when the goverment stops caring about the poor-that's could lead to some serious problems.

A resent report said that in order to run for President it would cost upwards of $1,000,000,000.00 (a billion) You are correct in order to get into politics today you have to be a member of the super rich elite and this is sad. What we need a common citizen who is in touch with the reality of the plight of the everyday American. Someone who has had to choose between health care and a house payment, some one who been out of work because their job was sold overseas, someone who can't make a decent wage because the illegal worker is bring the average down. But that will never happen because the person is to busy working to feed their family to take time off to run around talking about all the great things they have done and will do. When in reality their more of a legend in their own mind than anything else.
Why do we have a $9,000,000,000,000.00 (TRILLION) debt? Because the ultra rich in Washington do not know the value of a dollar. They've never had to save, they've never had to do without, they've never gone hungry so their kids could eat. They fly around in their private jets and tell us to cut back, they get $1200 haircuts and pretend to relate to the poor, they spend their entire life being a member of some aristocracy in a country that isn't suppose to have one.
Congress needs term limits, it needs fresh blood and new ideas, the president needs the line item veto to cut wasteful pork barrel pet projects like the bridge to nowhere. Military leaders need to left to run the military and not play 20 questions on the world stage. And most importantly the voting public needs to get involved and hold their elected official accountable for the state of the nation.
I was eating lunch today and I saw our County Judge Executive (like mayor of the county) and I stopped and asked him, "So tell me Jim, what have you done for the county this week?" I got a blank stare, so I asked again "What have you done for the county this week, beside collect a check?" ... Now I know our County Judge pretty well, he live just down the road from me and I think he is about as worthless as tits on a boar hog. Point being I ask him question every time I see he and it makes him very uncomfortable, he want to smile and shake hands and I want to know what the tax payer is paying him for, because we've lost 5 major employers here, and nothing new is coming in ... you know this story as you likely have one just like it in your town. But the 5 BIG employers here provided jobs for over 40% of the work force and with in 3 years that 40% was out on the street and when the population isn't working everyone is hurt. People left in droves and the few remaining low wage jobs there were out there were filling by immigrants that would work for minimum wage. Point is to many politician think that they are in some sort of members only club and are not accountable to the little people outside. Well they are accountable and it's not members only and you, you, you and you need to stay on they ass and get others involved and stop it with the damn apathy. These people aren't smart enough to know their screwing up unless we tell them, no matter what they think.
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« Reply #97 on: November 09, 2007, 10:57:21 PM »

I've been staying out of this one, but I'm enjoying the discourse overall.

Scott, you may want to look up a book called The European Dream by Jeremy Rifkin. It seems to be something along the lines of what you are thinking of in a worldwide governing body. I personally don't agree with his assessment of the European Union, and I don't see a one-world government happening (people are too partisan by nature, as well as being too fearful of the unfamiliar or unknown), but it is at least an interesting idea (I read an excerpt from the book as part of a class I am teaching).

As for my views on our current political quandary, I would point out to Jack and others concerned about how little progress was made under Bush with a Republican Congress backing him up: Bush is not a traditional Republican; most in Congress are. Traditionally (okay, at least since Reagan), Republicans have stood for lower taxes and smaller government (if you will recall, Papa Bush lost his reelection bid primarily because he saw no alternative but to break his promise of "no new taxes"). W, on the other hand, has increased the size and scope of government tremendously, costing us freedoms that will likely never be regained and giving the feds inroads into our daily lives that probably have the founding fathers spinning in their graves. This is not a "Republican" policy. Over the course of history, Democrats and Republicans have basically switched platforms several times, and we may be seeing that happening now (or W could be an anomaly; only time will tell). I'm speaking in very general terms here. Lincoln's Republicans were radical progressives, while the Democrats of the time were the conservative party. That changed dramatically with FDR, who catalyzed the Democrats' change into the more progressive party, leaving the Republicans as the conservatives. Reagan was probably the epitome of a conservative Republican (at least in the White House). Things seem to be going topsy-turvy again, but, as I said, only time will tell for sure.

Personally, I'm more of a Libertarian in that I would like to move the balance of power away from the feds and return it to the states. I realize this isn't going to happen, but I hate to see the progressive erosion of our freedoms in the name of "national security" as well as the increasingly intrusive nature of government in general. I strongly believe in the philosophy that "he governs best who governs least."
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« Reply #98 on: November 09, 2007, 11:08:01 PM »

Oh, I'm free to pursue just about anything. Of course, I have to be able to justify its news value, and I'd better be sure I can back it up if somebody wants to get litigious. It's happened to me before.

No, I've never been told to stay away from a story or a particular person, and I've always been allowed to put my own views into editorials. Now, community news is a little bit different from the big dailies, but we still have our controversies. And we're actually owned by one of Canada's big national dailies. Same company I worked for at my last job.

Really, as long as the paper makes money, reporters get a pretty free hand. There are the things we're obliged to do - assignments, events, breaking news, crime, politics, etc. Then it's generally up to us to find our own stories. It's another one of the requisite skills for the job, right up there with writing, interviewing and understanding various laws. A reporter actually has to know a little bit about everything, or at least possess the ability to get the gist of something very quickly when the need arises. I could be writing about a court case, a zoning issue, a maple syrup producer and a hockey player for the same issue. I either have to understand it or learn what I need to know.

But getting back to the topic at hand, no, I haven't been forbidden from covering a story. I've been urged to give something a rest if I've started to go overboard on something. Basically, if you can find an excuse to stir the political pot, they love it. Just don't make it personal. If a story starts to get tiresome, if it looks like you're going out of your way to pick on somebody, or advertisers start getting put off, then the folks upstairs might start to get antsy. But we're hired for our expertise in the field, and they know enough to let us do our jobs. Most of the people in management started out on the front lines (either news or sales), so they know.
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« Reply #99 on: November 10, 2007, 01:15:23 AM »

[
Back on topic, I don't think compulsory voting is a very good idea, are you really going to be interested in the process and the system if you face criminal charges if you don't vote? The prospect of it being a crime is not going to instill interest. I know it wouldn't work in the US, with the way this country is right now and the prevailing attitude of many of populous I'm rather happy many of them don't vote. reason being is that they are so ill informed their voting blind. They listen to the talking point and buzz phrases id they listen to anything and never really look to see what kind of person they are really voting for.



Just to add a bit more info, here at least it's not considered a criminal offense, just a fine, which is akin to a parking fine or something [unless a parking fine is a criminal offense in your country I don't know].  I'm sure something might happen if you consistently didn't vote, but still, you don't really hear of anything like that happening so it seems to be pretty smooth.

The reality is, if you really don't know what any party's policies are, you don't need to vote at all, just fill out the form incorrectly or write on it 'I vote for Bruce Campbell' etc etc, and it is duly ignored and we move on.

Of course you have heaps of parties nobody knows anything about other than people who have their platform in their name like 'the coalition for climate change' but these groups are purely minority groups that make up less than 2%.  We are pretty much a two party system here, with a couple more on the outskirts who occasionally get a one or two people into the senate/etc.

A great idea would be if someone got funded to run for parliament based on having a cool name for their party.  I can imagine people in their apathy, voting for the 'Jedi Coalition' party just on a whim, and you'd probably get more votes than 'Carers Australia' or one of the other minor groups.  It'd be an interesting experiment if you had a few spare hundred thousand dollars.

Here like anywhere else you have your traditional party voters in which family passes on their voting preferences to their kids.  But politics is big news, and whilst there may be a few donkey votes out there, most people tend to take it seriously enough.

I think the important thing is discussion of issues.  Someone above said that there is alot of apathy out there, and alot of people without a whole lot of knowledge about not only the system but the people running.  In an ideal world you wouldn't need to make it compulsory to vote, because everyone would, but we all know that's silly.

Personally I think that it helps here, because it promotes discussion, especially times like now when we are mere weeks away from an election.  People who may have spent the last three years not caring, now may suddenly start to sit up and take notice.

Like I said, I hang around with some politically minded people, ranging from various views of my hippy-ish friend to my right wing Liberal voters.  But that being said, more people seem to be interested here than in the US.

The way I figure it, if I start to get interested in politics, and talk about it with a friend, he may start to and talk to another friend and so on.  I know the world won't work as fluid as that, but I don't see how being cynical about it and just not bothering will help.

It's the same as life I suppose... but I'm probably too young to have been broken down on society yet.  TeddyR

That's why I like threads like these.  Not only am I learning more about personal views, and the system in the states, but people have been making some excellent points which have been good to read.  I may not agree with everything everyone is saying, but I'm always open for an intelligent discussion, and so far we've gone well with this.


Anyways, on a side note, speaking of taking welfare, it was very interesting reading about people in the great depression in the US.  We did a vague bit of study on it a few years ago and it was interesting reading about people caught up in the depression driving to go and get welfare.  They're so poor because of lack of jobs etc, but owned cars.  I think that's what classed it as so 'Great' in that it affected middle society so suddenly.  My how things have changed.  You still get people who don't claim things, but we have developed more of a 'why not' consumer driven society that it's such a part of our society. 

Anyway, continue discussion with this silly side post from someone not involved at all in US politics.
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #100 on: November 10, 2007, 02:37:21 AM »

I don't know man in this country the voter apathy is palatable, so many people are so self absorbed they can't see the forest for the trees. They only see there small little world and rarely if ever the big picture so I doubt many would take the time that is require to get interested in big picture. Some will, but I'm afraid many will not. I hope I'm wrong about that, I'd just be happy if the people that did vote were alive, legal and only vote once.

Let's face it our current field of candidate from every party is less than impressive. I haven't heard a straight answer out of any of them on any issue. The democrats are to busy running against Bush who's not even in the race and the Republicans are all over the board on every issue.

Let for sh!ts and giggles take one issue in the court of public opinion ... Illegal Immigration.

88% of the American people according to a recent Zogby poll want illegal immigration stopped, the boarder secured and the those that are illegal here, out.
During the resent amnesty bill the public shut down the capitol switchboard in outrage to defeat the bill. It was a victory for the American people and I felt good that so many people got involved. they felt passion about something and acted on it.

But on illegal immigration to listen to anyone from G.W. to the field of fools running to replace him I haven't heard a straight answer yet. I've heard a tons of double talk and politicese.

Phrase like ...
"We need to look at that."
"Path to citizenship."
"Serious issue."
"More information needed."

etc etc

And what the American people I believe want is for someone to stand up with some backbone and say the boarder will be secured, and do it. We will heavily fine those that hire illegals and do it, no exceptions. (You take away the jobs the illegal will go home or get legal.) and if you catch an illegal there's no hearing, no court just a swift boot to the next plane headed to there country.

On the war, the Democrats are doing all that can do to get out before the election because they don't want to be faced with having to withdraw, it won't look good for them in the eyes of history. They want to blame republicans at any cost up to a surrender for all practical purposes and that is unacceptable. It's not a Republican war, it's an American war and the Democrats need to take some ownership, after all that voted for it too. (and passed it) when they call it George Bush's war I want to get on the next plane to DC and go b***h slap a few of them. It's [slap] an [slap] American [slap] war [slap] we're in this [slap] together. [slap, slap, slap] And after that go home

And if I hear the phrase "Failed Policy" come out of a left wing lib's congressman's mouth a again I'm going to puke ... ok if its a failed policy present one that will work!! Put your grand ideas where your big ass month is at and present a better plan, but they never do. They just b***h and point fingers and that gets us as a nation nowhere. I'm so sick of partisan politics, why can't these clowns be Americans first.

There are times I want to be apathetic, because the more you pay attention to it the more you wonder how anything gets done with all the childish bickering that goes on.

 
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« Reply #101 on: November 10, 2007, 06:22:04 AM »

Interesting to hear that Australia has its fringe parties as well. We have a few here who are champing at the bit to either get someone into parliament or a provincial legislature.

The problem is they know perfectly well it's never going to happen as things stand, so they don't even try. In last month's Ontario provincial election, one of them actually just stuck a convenient warm body on the ballot in the riding I was covering. She lived hours away, and as far as I know, never actually visited the riding she was running in. Her opponents never met her. I never spoke to her, even on the phone. The campaign signs were generic signs with the party name.

For a lot of them, an election is just a soapbox. They get candidates on the ballot, then give their spiel in debates and interviews. A hundred people or so then use their vote as a gesture of support for the ideas presented.

Of course, they all have their eye on changing the system. I mentioned the Ontario referendum earlier. With proportional representation, they would just need to scrape together a couple of percent province-wide to be handed a seat representing no particular constituency. They'd also be able to pick who actually becomes the member. The idea is loaded with problems, but these folks claim it is the only way for all votes to count (everybody wins, yay).

What they don't consider is that they already have as much power now as they'd have with one, two or even half a dozen seats in the legislature. Unless you have enough seats to form a government, either on your own or by forming a coalition with other parties, your only power is talking. If these small parties endeavoured to behave like real parties - developing platforms that go beyond an issue or two, electing a party leader, staying active between elections - they'd have that much power already. And they might also have a chance, albeit slim, of getting someone elected under the existing system.

But the problem here is that these one-issue parties see the legislature as they see the election - something to use as a soapbox. The difference is that while an election campaign is a big, chaotic talkfest, the government needs to run at least somewhat efficiently. It does no good to have members yakking away about pet issues that might or might not be relevant (which some already do). Making matters worse, a proportional system would reduce the number of seats held by the winning party. It wouldn't change the winner, just give them a minority government, which would mean that they have no hope of getting anything done unless they can get enough of the others to agree on something.

Really, those fringe parties are just trying to hijack the process to get their own message out. They do it during elections and they'd do it in office if they could. But the latter has the potential to do some real damage.

And as I've said, they already have as much power to talk and pester and lobby as anyone else right now. What it comes down to is people trying to get more than their democratic rights, even if they sincerely believe they're after fairness.
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« Reply #102 on: November 10, 2007, 10:16:23 AM »

Scott, you may want to look up a book called The European Dream by Jeremy Rifkin. It seems to be something along the lines of what you are thinking of in a worldwide governing body. I personally don't agree with his assessment of the European Union, and I don't see a one-world government happening (people are too partisan by nature, as well as being too fearful of the unfamiliar or unknown), but it is at least an interesting idea (I read an excerpt from the book as part of a class I am teaching).

Derf, about 17 years ago Jeremy Rifkin was talking on C-Span about the 25 hour work week in Europe and the idea of sharing work. This took me into all sorts of ideas regarding the amount of hours we work in a week and the real value of property, etc. I was also into Alvin Toffler at the time. Maybe this weekend I'll go to borders and look up Jeremy Rifkin's book EUROPEAN DREAM. Might also pick up AndyC's recommendation THE TIPPING POINT and some good book about Jefferson/Hamilton as IndianaSmith eluded to. What I find with people like Rifkin who may have a good idea is they don't have a divine force behind it to make it dynamic, but it can be a benificial read.

Interesting about the parties shifting completely. Makes you wonder.

But the problem here is that these one-issue parties see the legislature as they see the election - something to use as a soapbox. The difference is that while an election campaign is a big, chaotic talkfest, the government needs to run at least somewhat efficiently. It does no good to have members yakking away about pet issues that might or might not be relevant (which some already do). Making matters worse, a proportional system would reduce the number of seats held by the winning party. It wouldn't change the winner, just give them a minority government, which would mean that they have no hope of getting anything done unless they can get enough of the others to agree on something.

Really, those fringe parties are just trying to hijack the process to get their own message out. They do it during elections and they'd do it in office if they could. But the latter has the potential to do some real damage.

I remember when third party candidate Ross Perot was running and they were afraid it would drive votes away from Republicans.

A third party would need more than a couple issues to drive it. That type of party wouldn't know what to do with the Presidency even if they obtained it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2007, 11:45:33 AM by Scott » Logged

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« Reply #103 on: November 10, 2007, 12:51:13 PM »

karma to Scott for putting me and Cheeze on the list . . .

although I notice we haven't gotten any votes yet!!!


And may I add, to the whole forum, that this is one of the best and most enlightened political discussions I've read anywhere.  Maybe watching B movies is a sign of superior intellect.  Let's ship copies of the entire Ed Wood collection to all the candidates in both parties, just in case!
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« Reply #104 on: November 10, 2007, 03:27:43 PM »

ABCnews.com has this Match-O-Matic poll that you can take to find out who your top three candidates are.
It doesn't take very long to do.  About 5 minutes.
It chose Dennis Kucinich for me but I wouldn't vote for him.

So far, my choice is Barack Obama.
That may change as the election draws nearer, but for now he's my choice.

TAKE THE MATCH-O-MATIC POLL

Post your results.


Going to throw this conversation off a bit, but I just did this test.  Apparently I should support Kucinich, Gravel and Dodd in that order.  I don't care for any of them.
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    FROM THE BADMOVIES.ORG ARCHIVES
    ImageThe Giant Claw - Slime drop

    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

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