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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  2008 Presidential Candidates « previous next »
Poll
Question: Which 2008 Presidential Candidate do you think is best?
Joe Biden - 0 (0%)
Hillary Rodham Clinton - 2 (9.1%)
Chris Dodd - 0 (0%)
John Edwards - 0 (0%)
Rudolph Giuliani - 2 (9.1%)
Mike Gravel - 1 (4.5%)
Mike Huckabee - 0 (0%)
Duncan Hunter - 0 (0%)
Alan Keyes - 0 (0%)
Dennis Kucinich - 0 (0%)
John McCain - 0 (0%)
Barack Obama - 2 (9.1%)
Ron Paul - 1 (4.5%)
Bill Richardson - 0 (0%)
Mitt Romney - 2 (9.1%)
Tom Tancredo - 0 (0%)
Fred Thompson - 2 (9.1%)
None Of The Above - 1 (4.5%)
We Need A New Election Process - 2 (9.1%)
Christopher Walken - 1 (4.5%)
General Zod - 0 (0%)
Arnold Schwarzenegger - 1 (4.5%)
Al Gore - 0 (0%)
Newt Gingrich - 0 (0%)
Pat Buchanan - 0 (0%)
Alfred E. Neuman - 0 (0%)
Zacherle - The Cool Ghoul - 4 (18.2%)
Pat Paulson - 0 (0%)
Cthulhu - 1 (4.5%)
Stephen Colbert - 0 (0%)
IndianaSmith - 0 (0%)
CheezeFlixz - 0 (0%)
AndyC - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 22

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 ... 8
Author Topic: 2008 Presidential Candidates  (Read 48763 times)
AndyC
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« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2007, 09:55:42 PM »

I'm inclined to agree with CheezeFlix. It takes more than government to hold a nation together. It takes a shared culture. Yes, some places are more cosmopolitan than others, but when you look at the big picture, there is usually one more or less dominant culture in every place. Maybe someday the world will become sufficiently homogenized through information technology and high-speed travel that we won't need to worry about that, but I don't think that would be a good thing. I like some variety.

Of course, even with a common culture, smaller communities always form based on, among other things, simple geography. The people in Town A will be the rivals of the people in Town B, even though they're only a couple of miles apart. Or maybe it's two schools in the same city.

Malcolm Gladwell has some interesting ideas in his book The Tipping Point, about people having a more-or-less hard limit to the number of people they can really know, and about communities having an optimum population. Basically, the farther you get beyond the magic number, the harder it gets to hold things together.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2007, 09:38:36 AM »

I would personally disagree with the idea tht the government holds the country together.  It tears it apart, look at this war and this election.
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Ash
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« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2007, 09:39:45 AM »

ABCnews.com has this Match-O-Matic poll that you can take to find out who your top three candidates are.
It doesn't take very long to do.  About 5 minutes.
It chose Dennis Kucinich for me but I wouldn't vote for him.

So far, my choice is Barack Obama.
That may change as the election draws nearer, but for now he's my choice.

TAKE THE MATCH-O-MATIC POLL

Post your results.
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AndyC
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« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2007, 10:00:34 AM »

I would personally disagree with the idea tht the government holds the country together.  It tears it apart, look at this war and this election.

But it does. Don't confuse the guy who happens to be in a particular office right now with the idea of government as a whole (laws, elected leaders, police, building inspectors, social workers, etc.)

Small groups might not necessarily need any specific leadership, small communities might get by without a complex system of laws, but when you get into numbers too large to form a real community, you need a support structure. The more people you have, the larger and more complex it needs to be (although opinions vary on just how large and complex). This is further affected by the general willingness of people to take responsibility for themselves. To paraphrase Edmund Burke, if people can't control themselves, control needs to come from outside.

Other forces work in reverse, such as common culture and values, social norms, customs and etiquette, and so forth. Without those, government alone could not hold things together against all the forces pushing it apart.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2007, 10:48:02 AM »

Quote
but when you get into numbers too large to form a real community, you need a support structure

sure, I just don't know that our current central government is providing that for us. most of our tax dollars go to fighting wars in the middle east, subsidizing stuff we don't use and beaurocracy.  I think we could do a better job ourselves.  after all, it's all our money that pays for this stuff anyway.  and we STILL have cruddy looking roads,  38 million living below the poverty line and terrorism up the ass.

I'm not against order or for chaos, I just don't see how the state having a monopoly on this has benfited us too much, espeically recently. 
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Scott
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« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2007, 12:21:13 PM »

I'm inclined to agree with CheezeFlix. It takes more than government to hold a nation together. It takes a shared culture. Yes, some places are more cosmopolitan than others, but when you look at the big picture, there is usually one more or less dominant culture in every place. Maybe someday the world will become sufficiently homogenized through information technology and high-speed travel that we won't need to worry about that, but I don't think that would be a good thing. I like some variety.

Of course, even with a common culture, smaller communities always form based on, among other things, simple geography. The people in Town A will be the rivals of the people in Town B, even though they're only a couple of miles apart. Or maybe it's two schools in the same city.

We are only on this earth for a short time then we go to the next world. There is a better place to come.

Concerning this "physical" realm:

My point of view is a little bit different. Let me explain. My wife of 20 years is from a different country and we have a daughter between us age 19. I've noticed that their is a change in both of us over the years as far as how we live and see the world and our daughter is very American, but also has a larger world view than most. Now as parents we no longer hold to the old ways as our parents grew up with. We follow the future. Taking the best of of the world and bringing it together. Image if Israeli's married Palestinians.

The same race marriages of today are fine. Don't get me wrong. Everyone should keep their existing voes to whom they are married to. Perhaps in the future when there is much much more interracial marriages we will see things change dramatically. Even to the point of not allowing the the next generations to inbreed with same race marriages. Young people would have to go outside their race and eventually national borders to find a mate. No racial incest might be the call of the future. A new aspect for religions to bring people into a One World Government. All come from Adam and all return to Adam figuratively speaking. Every story has a beginning, a middle, and end.

Democratically speaking I really think a goal should rule not a person. With a one world government we could put all our time and energy to getting off the planet as one people.

If we can't have Democratic rule what's needed is another Alexander The Great. He married all his soldiers off to women of each conquered land. Add to this that people who flee another country and come to the Western world for a better life. Those nations from which they flee forfeit their sovereignty and the nation(s) who take on the burden of accepting these peoples get to obtain the lands. Those countries lose their sovereignty and they are eventually made states and transforming them into something better. Manifest Destiny. Land for access. Mass migrations of peoples to and from. People here might want to invest and develope the new lands we acquire by right. Because corrupt and bankrupt nations lose their sovereignty. Which is ok, because they become part of the One World Government. They become citizens of the new world. Flesh and blood anchoring earthly reality creating the new world. I think it's a matter of time before other people see it. 

I think it's possible. It will happen eventually if true. It could happen sooner if Providence allows it to be known. Perhaps it's being protected for a time.

Just a thought.
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AndyC
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« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2007, 12:48:47 PM »

sure, I just don't know that our current central government is providing that for us. most of our tax dollars go to fighting wars in the middle east, subsidizing stuff we don't use and beaurocracy.  I think we could do a better job ourselves.  after all, it's all our money that pays for this stuff anyway.  and we STILL have cruddy looking roads,  38 million living below the poverty line and terrorism up the ass.

Government can and does take many forms. Look around the world and throughout history, and just about everything has been tried somewhere at some time. You could have a king, a dictator, a council of elders, a parliament, a corporation or a continuous polling of the public to make decisions, but they all serve the same purpose, and they aren't all equally good. Every system has its problems, and even the best have to wrestle with the questions of finance, poverty, aging infrastructure and crime.
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« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2007, 01:16:59 PM »

I'm not against the war, but I'm wondering how we can maintain our current economy with the war costing $200 million a day and the total cost reaching 1 trillion as we speak. Guess it's just a drop in the bucket. Smile
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Jack
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« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2007, 02:52:06 PM »

jack- not to be a nerd, but if those are your concerns I'd strongly recommend the clip of Ron Paul on the Jay Leno show I posted a few threads below or check out his columns as lewrockwell.com  i think you will be pleasently surprised at how he addreses those issues and I'd becurious to see what you thought if you have the time

To be perfectly honest, it's tough to find a Republican with a platform that doesn't include at least some vague talk of tax cuts around the fringes, but at the same time he'd like to increase spending on a host of issues. 
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« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2007, 09:07:54 PM »

To be perfectly honest, it's tough to find a Republican with a platform that doesn't include at least some vague talk of tax cuts around the fringes, but at the same time he'd like to increase spending on a host of issues. 

Time and time again it has been shown that tax cuts increase revenue because the money you save on taxes you spend on stupid stuff you don't need pumping that money back into the economy which results in that money being taxed many times over. Since the tax cuts government receipts have increase far above projection by all of the so called excepts. It's economics 101 put money into the economy revenues increase, take money out (i.e. taxes) you create a recession. The less you have to spend the faster you stop spending on fast food, movies, trips, and other non staples and in turn the folks doing those job that you and I waste money on are out of work and nursing from the government tit and not paying taxes. So raising taxes in fact reduces government receipts.

And if one says they only cut the riches taxes, as it stands now the top 10% of wage earners pay over 71% of all taxes and have you ever worked for a poor person? The rich provide jobs. Take their money and you take your job. 

Quote from: Scott
I'm not against the war, but I'm wondering how we can maintain our current economy with the war costing $200 million a day and the total cost reaching 1 trillion as we speak. Guess it's just a drop in the bucket. Smile

That'd find something else to waste it on that does that average citizen little good.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2007, 10:25:36 PM »

karma to Cheeze for his brilliant defense of the electoral college!!!

That is exactly what our founders feared - in a direct election, the residents of our teeming cities would wind up choosing the President over the wishes of the sturdy citizen farmers who were the backbone of the Republic.
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Jack
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« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2007, 08:56:56 AM »

Hey Cheeze Flixz, in my case you're preaching to the choir  Smile 
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« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2007, 09:44:15 AM »

jack- I know you are cynical  but I promise you, this guy is different. 

He wants to get rid of the IRS for one.  and all our bases around the world.  and gradually ween people off of entitlements.  He's frmo the old school man.  the OLD school.   "conscience of a conservative" type anti government GOP
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2007, 11:42:30 AM »

Personally I'm all for a National Sales tax and do away with income tax and specialty taxes (booze, smokes, gas), reason being is that all the unreported income, the underground economy is not long hidden from taxes. Anytime you buy something (barring housing, utilities, food and medicines) you pay taxes on it.
You make a $1000 a week you take home a $1000 a week, you spend $500 week on stupid stuff, you pay national sales tax on the stupid stuff you or I buy. You want to pay less taxes then spend less money on stupid stuff.

This would tax all the underground economy and maybe, just maybe stop some people from buying more than they need and going into debt and then paying interest on the taxes they'd charged on a credit card.

This would empower the tax payer to control through their own restraint the amount of taxes they pay. Think about it, how much money do you make every year that is hidden from taxes, ebay sales, direct sale, scratch off winning, etc. Do you report it and pay taxes on it? That is a tiny tiny drop of the underground economy, a national sales tax would tax this money if you spend it and not tax it if you save it.
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« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2007, 01:45:30 PM »

Cheezeflix, your amazing. I don't have the numbers to verify the diffence between sales tax and regular yearly tax, but your last two post on taxes makes a lot of sense philosophically and probably in reality as well.

What you and IndianaSmith said about the backbone of the country voting. Their is something to say about that, but now most of our farmers really aren't U.S. citizens anymore from what the news has been telling us. This would make the electorial college voting system a goverment regulated system that changes the outcome of things based on something that doesn't exist instead of letting the pure mass vote determine things.

I understand what you said about a discipled democracy. We can create different types of new voting blocks to suit different people and purposes as well. The subject of fairness is an issue. Maybe I'm misunderstanding?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2007, 01:52:40 PM by Scott » Logged

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