2008 Presidential Candidates

[Allhallowsday]

Ahh you caught me using the wrong spelling of a word. So yes, I'm guilty of a spelling violation ... sue me.

No, my friend, I "caught" you twice, though I'm not at all interested in suing. 

[dean]

Off Topic I think the frantic bold text and exclamation points in Allhallowsday's corrections just made that hilarious for me to read.

On topic, it's interesting reading about the process in America.  We're currently in the middle of an election campaign here in Australia and it's interesting to draw comparisons to the system. 

The biggest difference is that here voting is compulsory.  I don't know why it's your choice in America, but I think forcing people to vote does help, even if you have what is called a 'Donkey Vote' [voting for mythical candidates/not really voting just showing up] happening.  It ensures it gets attention at least.

Fines are given out if you don't vote.  I'm sure that'd be a huge pain in the butt logistically with your country, but I think it's an important part of a country's election process if you have only 30% people voting.  That is just insane to think that only 30% have an actual say in who gets elected, whilst 70% just sit back and biatch the whole time.

I'm sure that's not totally accurate, but still, you get the idea.

Though I'm also sure that since our population is only 21 million, it'd be a LOT easier to organise our voting system, than it would be to have compulsory voting in the US.

Anyways, I've already voted, since I'm leaving overseas next week, a week before our election.  It's a fun process, and really isn't that much effort, especially if you can vote before hand at your leisure, like I did.

Ah well...

[AndyC]

Yup, I think compulsory voting would be a tough thing to enforce in the states. But it wouldn't be a bad idea here in Canada, with only about 30 million population.

It does go back to Edmund Burke. The problem is that people shirk their responsibility to vote, so it becomes necessary to make them vote. It's really ironic when you think about it - making people exercise a democratic right. The problem is still apathy. If people took their duty seriously, it wouldn't be necessary. But maybe if people have to vote, they'll start to take more of an interest. Has that been the case in Australia?

There's nothing I hate more than listening to one of those many people who equate cynicism with wisdom, spewing nonsense about all the candidates being the same, and how it doesn't matter who gets elected, as though they have it all figured out. The rest of us suckers who vote are naive. We're wasting our time comparing platforms, familiarizing ourselves with candidates, making a side trip on the way home from work to check a box or pull a lever or whatever.

It's nothing but an excuse for not getting off their butts and doing the same. I really hate that, especially when it's said with such pride. That is my biggest peeve, people who take pride in their own ignorance.

[dean]

It's hard to say whether it has made people more interested, since I hang around with some fairly politically-minded folk anyways, but I'd say that per capita we probably have a better strike rate of interest vs non-interest.

Of course you get plenty of people who just don't care, show up election day, tick their name off and just do whatever, but even then at least it gets them there... the people who just plain don't want to vote at all just won't, but the ones who are just lazy and are forced to may take it a bit more seriously.

It's interesting though, since as far as I know, there aren't that many countries with compulsory voting.

Of course on your latter point AndyC, as I may have mentioned before, the two major parties are so similar that only a few key policies separate them, it's just that I hope that the a-holes in power [they aren't bad, I just think they're all pricks] don't get re-elected.  I'm sure I'll feel the same way next election [as in, the new guys are just as bad] but at least we got a change.  Our current Prime Minister has been in power for 11 years, and has very much lost touch I personally think.

Anyways, yes, vote if you can...  simple as that.  It takes no time at all, and helps sustain primary and high schools with important barbecuing revenue...

[Jack]

My own cynicism comes from the fact that back in the early '90s when I first got interested in politics, I was a single male in his mid 20's working 50 hours a week and barely able to afford rent, car insurance, etc etc etc and a couple of beers and a pizza on Friday night.  I looked at my paycheck and a third of it was gone, right off the top.  How wonderful, I thought to my naive little self, if only government would cut taxes.  The whole middle class would be able to dream of moving from an apartment into a house, to buy the stuff they wanted, to live the American Dream.  So I read all kinds of books on politics, watched Washington Journal on C-SPAN every day, never missed the Sunday talk shows, got involved in all the internet forums, etc.  And best of all there were all these politicians telling me exactly what I wanted to hear!  Oh boy, was I ever excited.

Long story shot, here it is a decade later, we had a Republican President, a Republican House, and a Republican Senate, and did any of the long-standing republican policy positions get passed into law?  In any meaningful way - in a way that a person could actually notice in their lives without having to watch C-SPAN 24/7 to find out about it?  No, we got a war and that's about it.  We wind up with the usual trade off, in order to mute opposition to the republican's somewhat less-than-popular program the democrats are given carte blanche to have all the spending they want.  

In my own state, we've got a Republican governor who just pushed through a gigantic tax increase that's cost me more money than pretty much every other tax increase combined.

I used to vote Libertarian, but they don't even bother to publish the vote totals for them in the newspaper.  

[Scott]

The biggest difference is that here voting is compulsory.  I don't know why it's your choice in America, but I think forcing people to vote does help, even if you have what is called a 'Donkey Vote' [voting for mythical candidates/not really voting just showing up] happening.  It ensures it gets attention at least.

Fines are given out if you don't vote.  I'm sure that'd be a huge pain in the butt logistically with your country, but I think it's an important part of a country's election process if you have only 30% people voting.  That is just insane to think that only 30% have an actual say in who gets elected, whilst 70% just sit back and biatch the whole time.

Wow, never knew Australia had compulsory voting. It's actually a great idea even if people only come out and fake vote. At least they are involved. As IndianaSmith would say "Disciplined Democracy". It could work here in the U.S.. I mean they make it mandatory to serve on Jury Duty here. They could do the same with voting.

Long story shot, here it is a decade later, we had a Republican President, a Republican House, and a Republican Senate, and did any of the long-standing republican policy positions get passed into law?  In any meaningful way - in a way that a person could actually notice in their lives without having to watch C-SPAN 24/7 to find out about it?  No, we got a war and that's about it.  We wind up with the usual trade off, in order to mute opposition to the republican's somewhat less-than-popular program the democrats are given carte blanche to have all the spending they want.  

You said it Jack. Your absolutely correct about Republicans having complete control and not doing anything noticeable. For as much as I like them and find them fountains of safe goverment I think fellows like CheezeFlixz, AndyC, and IndianaSmith got all the rules of the game down so well they forgot to use some creativity when it comes to the future. They are abiding by the old tried and true type of government without addressing future evolutionary realities.

My own cynicism comes from the fact that back in the early '90s when I first got interested in politics, I was a single male in his mid 20's working 50 hours a week and barely able to afford rent, car insurance, etc etc etc and a couple of beers and a pizza on Friday night.  I looked at my paycheck and a third of it was gone, right off the top.
In my own state, we've got a Republican governor who just pushed through a gigantic tax increase that's cost me more money than pretty much every other tax increase combined.   

You know I think politicians just make up this whole tax thing. You know we also sleep 30% of our life. We are probably being penalized for sleeping. Why can't mankind evolve into something that doesn't need monetary gains to be motivated to work?

If you keep people confortable you can get their vote. I really think the world has it all messed up.

Maybe you and I should run for Prez and VP, Cheeze. Flip ya for the top slot . . . . 

Added them to the Voting Poll above. You can delete your current vote and revote for new candidates as desired. 

[CheezeFlixz]

No, my friend, I "caught" you twice, though I'm not at all interested in suing. 

Your mother must be very proud ....


ANYWAY ...

Back on topic, I don't think compulsory voting is a very good idea, are you really going to be interested in the process and the system if you face criminal charges if you don't vote? The prospect of it being a crime is not going to instill interest. I know it wouldn't work in the US, with the way this country is right now and the prevailing attitude of many of populous I'm rather happy many of them don't vote. reason being is that they are so ill informed their voting blind. They listen to the talking point and buzz phrases id they listen to anything and never really look to see what kind of person they are really voting for.

Just for the sake of argument ... what do the supporters of Hilliary really know?

Why won't she release all the first lady documents in the National Archieve?
Why is her documents the very first of the First Ladies to be sealed?
What is she hiding?
What has the women ever done ... really? What has she done?
How strong can she be if she can't dump her cheating husband?
Where is her experience at leader ship on a grand scale?
What has she done as a senator?
What legislation has she introduced?

Just a thought ...
These are rhetorical questions ... I've already arrived at my own answers.

I could ask (and do) various questions about any candidate from either side, Republican, Democrat, Independent or fringe parties. And that NOT what many people do, to many people are nothing more than lemmings following the crowd right over the edge. I'm Democrat, so I vote Democrat. I'm Republican, so I vote Republican and so forth. Here's a novel idea vote for the best candidate regardless of party affiliation. And to be honest I'm not real impressed with anyone running, but I'll vote and I'll vote for who I think best of the choices I have, because one of them is going to win. 

Why can't mankind evolve into something that doesn't need monetary gains to be motivated to work?

Because PRIDE is in a coma.

I think fellows like CheezeFlixz, AndyC, and IndianaSmith got all the rules of the game down so well they forgot to use some creativity when it comes to the future. They are abiding by the old tried and true type of government without addressing future evolutionary realities.

1st: Think again.
2nd: What Evolutionary realities to you foresee? I ask seriously and not sarcastically.

Here are the future evolutionary realities I see. If we, the US don't get our collective heads out of our collectives asses where going to be a minor player on the world stage.
We'll no longer be a super power and be nothing more than a former power. Our economy will take a dump and the dollar will have so little value that those cheap goods you and I buy from overseas will become unfordable. If we continue to let the boarder go unchecked the 3rd world nation that is Mexico will be the 3rd world nation of America. If we continue to offer hand outs instead of hand ups we'll continue to foster a nanny state society were people can no longer provide for themselves. If we don't put more importance on education and ethics we'll deserve what we get. And if we don't learn from the past we're bound to repeat it. And I hope I'm wrong.
 

[Scott]

Back on topic, I don't think compulsory voting is a very good idea, are you really going to be interested in the process and the system if you face criminal charges if you don't vote? The prospect of it being a crime is not going to instill interest. I know it wouldn't work in the US, with the way this country is right now and the prevailing attitude of many of populous I'm rather happy many of them don't vote. reason being is that they are so ill informed their voting blind. They listen to the talking point and buzz phrases id they listen to anything and never really look to see what kind of person they are really voting for.

These are some of the kind of things I'm talking about. We can't have compulsory voting because which ever party pushes the idea will not win the election. Therefore even if it was a good idea it would never happen.

As far as going to jail over it is concerned. Your either part of society or your are not. There will always be rules.

2nd: What Evolutionary realities to you foresee? I ask seriously and not sarcastically.

A democratic one world goverment would change things. No more competing internationally and no more taking advantage of people.

The choice really seems to be choosing the lesser of two evils again or entering a totally new world.

[Allhallowsday]

Off Topic I think the frantic bold text and exclamation points in Allhallowsday's corrections just made that hilarious for me to read.

Thank you for getting me... it was intended to be humor.  It's not easy for some to laugh at one's self, but I do it all the time !      

[Scott]

I gave you a karma for it earlier this morning. 

[CheezeFlixz]

Off Topic I think the frantic bold text and exclamation points in Allhallowsday's corrections just made that hilarious for me to read.

Thank you for getting me... it was intended to be humor.  It's not easy for some to laugh at one's self, but I do it all the time !      

Now IF that is directed at me I laugh at myself all the time ... I just laugh it you more.

THAT'S A JOKE SON! (I didn't say it was a good one.)

I could say I'm dyslexic; which I am and you are picking on the handicap and that's not nice, but I don't make excuses for my typos.

[Allhallowsday]

Your mother must be very proud ....

Why not? 

I'm rather happy many of them don't vote. reason being is that they are so ill informed their voting blind...

Oh, by the way, your use of "their" was intended to be a contraction of "they are," "they're..."   

And I think the legion of zombies that voted George W. Bush for President (particularly the second time) should have asked these same questions:

...what do the supporters of W really know?

What has the man ever done ... really? What has he done?

Now IF that is directed at me I laugh at myself all the time ... I just laugh it you more.

THAT'S A JOKE SON! (I didn't say it was a good one.)

I could say I'm dyslexic; which I am and you are picking on the handicap and that's not nice, but I don't make excuses for my typos.

You laugh "it" me mo'?  Well, now, I am proud... I live to get a laugh...

[Scott]

I voted for George W. Bush in the second election and I do love a good zombie movie.

[AndyC]

The catch with evolving into something better, whether we're talking socially, spiritually or whatever, is that we will never have a chance to do that if we ignore the present reality. We need to look to the future, but we also have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.

[Scott]

The catch with evolving into something better, whether we're talking socially, spiritually or whatever, is that we will never have a chance to do that if we ignore the present reality. We need to look to the future, but we also have to do the best we can with what we have to work with.

No doubt. We have to work within the existing parties to make it work. Transforming them completely over time. The rifle used by our forefathers will never be able to compete with the weapons of today. Sonic and Microwave. It has to be done with what parties already exist, so again you and CheezeFlixz are correct about getting on the phone to your representatives.