Bad Movie Logo
"A website to the detriment of good film"
Custom Search
HOMEB-MOVIE REVIEWSREADER REVIEWSFORUMINTERVIEWSUPDATESABOUT
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 23, 2014, 04:56:24 AM
537970 Posts in 40727 Topics by 5128 Members
Latest Member: hfraschilgreg
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Cut Israel Off « previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
Author Topic: Cut Israel Off  (Read 11085 times)
Trevor
Chief Troublemaker at Badmovies.org
B-Movie Kraken
*****

Karma: 891
Posts: 11204



WWW
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2007, 09:10:58 AM »

 BounceGiggle BounceGiggle BounceGiggle

......will.....not.....give.....negative.....karma........[BANG].....aaaarghhhh!
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 06:56:55 AM by Trevor » Logged
Zapranoth
Eye of Sauron and
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 138
Posts: 1165



« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2007, 10:17:52 AM »

All right...

Small | Large



Logged
lester1/2jr
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 674
Posts: 7765



WWW
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2007, 10:23:30 AM »

sheesh, you'd think I was trying to disprove peter graves went to the University of Minnesota or something
Logged

indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 1412
Posts: 8333


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2007, 04:05:16 PM »

Lester, I think you need . . . .oops.  Heart exploded.  good thing I'm undead!
Logged

"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
Dave M
Guest
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2007, 10:14:51 PM »

>  israel was created in 48.

BWAHAHAHA!!! When was monotheism created, '53? Never mind, I'll google it.

Should we start a thread about all the other allies we should cut off, or is this pretty much it?
Logged
Mortal Envelope
Bad Movie Lover
***

Karma: 37
Posts: 321


Manos...it's frightening!


« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2007, 01:10:11 PM »

As someone who is not a member of any of the big three religions that all hold some kind of holy land claim to the area, I suggest this:

Why not make the whole area a Global Historical Park where all three (and even the rest) of the religions are not only welcomed, but encouraged?  Yeah idealistic dreams but could you imagine the prosperity and tourism?  Instead of a land of conflict, it could be a land of celebration...a celebration of religion.  Crazytalk from an Agnostic I know; it could never happen.

And on another note: I doubt any of the gods are nationalistic or play revenge games on what nation supports what nation.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2007, 01:13:47 PM by Mortal Envelope » Logged
CheezeFlixz
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 489
Posts: 3723


Pathetic Earthlings


WWW
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2007, 01:49:26 PM »

As someone who is not a member of any of the big three religions that all hold some kind of holy land claim to the area, I suggest this:

Why not make the whole area a Global Historical Park where all three (and even the rest) of the religions are not only welcomed, but encouraged?  Yeah idealistic dreams but could you imagine the prosperity and tourism?  Instead of a land of conflict, it could be a land of celebration...a celebration of religion.  Crazytalk from an Agnostic I know; it could never happen.

And on another note: I doubt any of the gods are nationalistic or play revenge games on what nation supports what nation.

The Islamic world believes capitalism is evil and a product of the great Satan, they say this has they drive the global price of oil up and build tourist centers.   
Logged

lester1/2jr
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 674
Posts: 7765



WWW
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2007, 02:15:53 PM »

mortal-  that's how it was for years.  the arab christian, jews and muslims mainatined the myriad holy sites.  the different sects of christianty would show up and have riots and they would clear the bodies out and wait for next year.  the general balance of the population was about the same for more than a millenia until the blafour declaration in 1917, where tens of thousands of european jews showed up and kept showing up.

Quote from: cheeze
The Islamic world believes capitalism is evil and a product of the great Satan, they say this has they drive the global price of oil up and build tourist centers. 

no watch, cheezeflix will get GOOD karma for that absurd generalization.  ever been to Dubai?  ever seen a 7 STAR HOTEL? 

Logged

CheezeFlixz
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 489
Posts: 3723


Pathetic Earthlings


WWW
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2007, 04:38:56 PM »

Quote from: cheeze
The Islamic world believes capitalism is evil and a product of the great Satan, they say this has they drive the global price of oil up and build tourist centers. 

no watch, cheezeflix will get GOOD karma for that absurd generalization.  ever been to Dubai?  ever seen a 7 STAR HOTEL? 


Gee why did I mention building tourist attractions? I was specifically referencing Dubai.
Logged

indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 1412
Posts: 8333


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2007, 12:15:42 AM »

Your history is a little off, Lester.  OK - as far back as recorded history goes, this territory was occupied by Canaanite pagans.  God promised it to Abraham, according to the Old Testament, which is the oldest historical record we have of this particular chunk of real estate.  That was in 2000 BC. Abraham's family took possession and lived in the land for the next 200 years, then departed for Egypt. The actual conquest of Israel under Moses and Joshua came later, between 1400 and 1200 according to which historian you talk to.  From then until 722 BC all of Israel was under Jewish control.  That was when the Assyrians knocked off the Northern Kingdom.  However, its people still lived in the land.  the Southern Kingdom, ruled by the line of David, lasted until 586 BC, when they were conquered by Babylon.  But their people remained in the land under Babylonian occupation - only the ruling class was hauled off into exile, and that for only 70 years.  The Jews remained in the land of Israel, either as an independent entity or as a colony of the Greeks and Romans, until 70 AD, when the Romans destroyed the Temple and dispersed the Jews. Even then, the population of the land remained predominantly Jewish until they made the mistake of p**sing off the Romans one more time, around 130 BC, and then the Romans banished all of them from the land of Israel.  Yet Jerusalem remained the central point of Jewish worship and the Jewish people held onto their Scriptures, their language, and their religion to this day - a feat unparallelled in human history.  The Muslims did not occupy Israel until 700 AD.  Originally, they did allow Jews and Christians continued access to the holy sites in Jerusalem - until the Seljuk Turks overthrew the Abassid dynasty around 900 AD.  They then slaughtered most of the Christians and Jews in the city and forbade access to the holy sites.  The Crusades were a response to that action.  As a Christian, I deplore the Crusades and the general total abandonment of New Testament Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages.  BUT - the church has renounced violence and condemned the Crusades repeatedly.  There has never been a word of apology from the major leaders of Islam for the violence they have inflicted on the Christian world ever since Muhammad first heard his "voices" in that mountain cave.

All of this is a roundabout way of saying that the Jews have the best historical and religious claim of any race or culture to the land of Israel.  It is the center of their heritage, culture, and religion.  It is not the center of Islamic culture, and before the creation of Israel, the Dome of the Rock was a minor Islamic shrine, not the second or third holiest place in Islam, as the media today refers to it.  The Palestinians have repeatedly been offered more political freedom and human rights under Israeli law than they would enjoy in Saudi Arabia, Syria, Egypt, or Iran.  But they don't want freedom.  They want to kill Jews.

There never has been an organized Arab Palestinian State in Israel at any point in history, and the Palestinians have done nothing to show they deserve one, or are capable of governing one if they got it.

I like Mortal Envelope's idea, and as a Christian I have no moral or theological problem with it.  But the Muslims - at least the radicalized ones that seem to dominate Middle Eastern politics - will never go for it, and the Jews will never surrender their sovereignty over that territory, nor should they.

Sorry - that ran a bit longer than I meant for it to.
Logged

"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
lester1/2jr
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 674
Posts: 7765



WWW
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2007, 09:39:24 AM »

indiana- no one has any claim to any area.  the jews fought for israel and they will have to fight to keep it.  They can do this if they maintain their massive security apparatus, but we have no such apparatus.  we have two massive largely ungaurded borders.  We simply cannot logically be part of this conflict without facing another 9/11 attack.  we're undefendable due to the size and nature of our country


also, here is where I am coming from historically. 

Quote
Written by Henry Cattan     
 
THE FOUNDING OF JERUSALEM


(Excerpts from Henry Cattan, The Palestine Question, pp. 247-250)

Jerusalem is one of the oldest cities in the world. According to Josephus who wrote in the first century of our era, it was founded by the Canaanites. Josephus wrote:

But he who first built it [Jerusalem] was a potent man among the Canaanites, and is in our tongue called Melchisedek, The Righteous King, for such he really was; on which account he was (there) the first priest of God, and first built a temple (there), and called the city Jerusalem, which was formerly called Salem.

As Melchisedek was a contemporary of Abraham (Genesis 14:18), this would date the founding of Jerusalem in the eighteenth century BC. Hence, the city was in existence several centuries before the arrival of the Israelites in the land of Canaan. In fact, the Jewish Encyclopedia mentions that in Hebrew annals 'Jerusalem is expressly called a "foreign city" not belonging to the Israelites (Judges 19:12), and the Jebusites are said to have lived there for very many years together with the Benjarnites.

Jerusalem was inhabited by the Jebusites, a Canaanite subgroup. It was one of the oldest and most illustrious royal cities in the land of Canaan and for some 800 years it remained a Canaanite city. Around 1000 BC it was captured by David. It should be noted, however, that when David captured the city, he did not displace its original inhabitants allowing them to remain in their city, but not in the fortress.  The continued existence of the Canaanites in Jerusalem, which became the capital of the new Jewish kingdom that was established by David, is confirmed by the Bible which refers to the people whom Israel was not able to destroy and upon whom David's son, Solomon, levied a tribute of bondservice (1 Kings 9:20-1).

It is necessary to stress the fact that Jerusalem was founded by the Canaanites; and inhabited by them for several centuries, long before its capture by David, because some present-day Israeli politicians falsely claim that it was founded by the Jews. Thus at the time of the capture of the Old City of Jerusalem in June 1967, Yigal Allon, then Israel's Deputy Prime Minister, was reported by the press to have said: 'The world must reconcile itself to the fact that the city has at last returned to the nation that founded it and turned it into a Holy City' when, in fact, Jerusalem existed as a Canaanite sacred city for several hundred years before the Israelites set foot in Palestine.

JERUSALEM, AN ARAB CITY FOR 18 CENTURIES

The history of Jerusalem is linked with the history of Palestine which was briefly reviewed in Chapter 1. A chronology of the city is given in Appendix VII. As we have seen, many nations ruled Jerusalem but its demography did not always follow its political rule. The Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Persians, the Romans, the Greeks, the Moslem Arabs, the Crusaders, the Turks and the British ruled Jerusalem, at one time or another, but none of those peoples implanted themselves in the city or became part of its traditional population. Only three peoples have through the ages constituted the population of Jerusalem. These are the Canaanites, the Jews and the Palestinian Arabs.

Contrary to a common error, as explained in Chapter 1, the Canaanites and the Jews cohabited peacefully together until the massacre and deportation of the Jews by the Romans, first in AD 70 and finally in  AD 132-135.

The Palestinian Arabs, descendants of the Caananites and the Philistines (Chapter 1) remained and constituted the main element of the population of Jerusalem from the second until the twentieth centuries. They survived all subsequent conquests, massacres and vicissitudes. More than once, they changed their religion, adopting the religion of the conquerors. Pagans originally, they were converted to Christianity and many, though not all, accepted Islam after the Moslem Arab conquest of Jerusalem in the seventh century. Until the nineteenth century, the Palestinian Arabs were practically the only inhabitants of Jerusalem. For eighteen centuries, Jerusalem was essentially and fundamentally an Arab city. As previously mentioned in Chapter 1, neither the Moslem conquest of Palestine in the seventh century, nor the Turkish conquest in the sixteenth century, involved any demographic change or colonization by the conquerors. The latter were in small numbers and were interested solely in establishing their dominion over the conquered population.

As for the Jews, they completely disappeared from Jerusalem after their deportation by the Romans. Following their first revolt, in AD 66-70, Titus destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. After its destruction in AD 70, Jerusalem 'never again revived as a Jewish City.  After their second revolt, in  AD 132-135, the Jews were either killed or sold into slavery and dispersed to the far comers of the Roman Empire. When Jerusalem was rebuilt after AD 135 by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, it was given the name of Aelia Capitolina. and a decree was issued which prohibited under penalty of death the presence of Jews in the city. The prohibition of the presence of Jews in Jerusalem was continued for several centuries until it was lifted by the Arabs after the Moslem Arab conquest. As from Hadrian's time until the reign of Constantine in the fourth century, the population of Jerusalem consisted only of Christians and pagans, the latter worshipping Roman deities and idols. As from the reign of Constantine who made Christianity the religion of his empire, no pagans were left in Jerusalem which became a wholly Christian city.

It may be observed that despite the abrogation by the Arabs of Hadrian's prohibition of the presence of Jews in Jerusalem, very few Jews lived in the city. M. Franco, who made a special study of the position of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire, mentions that the famous Spanish traveller Benjamin of Tudela found two hundred Jews in Jerusalem in the year AD 1173. M. Franco observes that, apparently, the Jews who lived at the time that Benjamin of Tudela visited the city were expelled, for in AD 1180 another traveller, Petahia of Ratisbon, found in Jerusalem one co-religionist only. In AD 1267, a Spanish rabbi, Wise Ben Nahman, found two Jewish families in Jerusalem.

During the following centuries there was a trickle of Jews into Palestine. In consequence of their persecution in Western Europe and their expulsion from Spain (1492) and Portugal (1496), some of them sought refuge in Palestine and in other Mediterranean countries. As a result, a small number of Jews came to live in Jerusalem. According to Rappoport, there were 70 Jewish families in Jerusalem in 1488, 200 families in 1495 and 1,500 families in 1521.

JERUSALEM BEFORE THE EMERGENCE OF ISRAEL

Again after the Russian pogroms of 1881-82, a number of Jews emigrated to Palestine and settled in Tiberias, Safad and Jerusalem. At the end of the First World War, in 1917, the Jewish population of Jerusalem numbered 30,000. The Arab character of Jerusalem was not affected by the small number of Jews who had emigrated to Palestine during Turkish times, in particular, in the nineteenth century. In fact, many of them were Arabized in language and lived on good terms with the Palestinian Arabs, Moslem and Christian.

However, the Arab character of Jerusalem began to change during the British mandate (1922-48) when a massive Jewish immigration into Palestine was permitted by the British government in implementation of the Balfour Declaration and against the will of the original inhabitants. As a result, the Jewish population of Jerusalem tripled, rising from 30,000 in 1917 to 99,690 in 1946 as compared with 105,540 Moslems and Christians.  In consequence, Jerusalem became at the termination of the British mandate a city with a mixed population which comprised an almost equal number of Arabs and Jews. This situation, however, was to change radically after the emergence of Israel in 1948 and its resort to a racist demographic policy
 


from the book "The Palestine Question". cattan was a palestinian attorney and historian circa mid 20th century
Logged

indianasmith
Archeologist, Theologian, Elder Scrolls Addict, and a
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 1412
Posts: 8333


A good bad movie is like popcorn for the soul!


« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2007, 12:53:36 PM »

Nice writing, but I see a little finessing of the facts . . . . not to mention that a Palestinian attourney is NOT an unbiased source of information.  But leaving out the religious angle altogether, how can the U S be taken seriously as a supporter of democracy if we do NOT support the ONLY functional Parliamentary democracy in the Middle East?  Particularly when, unlike our Arab "allies", Israel stands by us over 90% of the time in the UN?  Only the Brits have shown themselves truer friends to the U S than the Israelis.
Logged

"Carpe diem!" - Seize the day!  "Carpe per diem!" - Seize the daily living allowance! "Carpe carp!" - Seize the fish!
"Carpe Ngo Diem!" - Seize the South Vietnamese Dictator!
Jim H
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 238
Posts: 2975



« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2007, 02:27:53 PM »

Quote
Actually, the "Palestinians" are nothing but nomadic Bedouin Arabs who settled in the region AFTER the Muslims took it over in 600 AD.  The Hebrew people have a claim on that land that goes back 4,000 years.

Is it really relevant who lived there 1000+ years ago?  If so, does that mean American Indian tribes have the right to rule over the entire USA, be damned to the rest of us living here?  What's the difference? 

Quote
how can the U S be taken seriously as a supporter of democracy if we do NOT support the ONLY functional Parliamentary democracy in the Middle East?

I think you should cut it off at "supporter of democracy".  We still have far too strong of ties to nasty, undemocratic countries to really be called that great of a friend to democracy.  I tend to think we support Israel for political, logistical and historical reasons, not because of their form of government.
Logged
flackbait
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 107
Posts: 1024


The fate of the last door to door salesmen


« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2007, 02:31:18 PM »

The problem with the middle east situation is that both sides have p**sed each other off.

The arabs have p**sed us off by 9/11, constant sucide bomber attacks on our troops and allies, and trying to go to war with israel.

We have p**sed them off by supporting the Shah of Iran, who was an oppresive leader. Also we did get Sudam Hussien into power. And the icing on the cake is that we support Isreal.

So in the end both sides think they have a justifible cause to keep fighting.
So like the old proverb "when two people argue it is seldom one person's fault".
Logged
lester1/2jr
Frightening Fanatic of Horrible Cinema
****

Karma: 674
Posts: 7765



WWW
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2007, 02:59:28 PM »

Quote
  unlike our Arab "allies", Israel stands by us over 90% of the time in the UN?  Only the Brits have shown themselves truer friends to the U S than the Israelis.

"us" and our government aren't the same thing.  If Tony Blair wanted to show himself as a true friend to america he would have told Bush to forget abuot invading Iraq. 

Besides,  we don't "support"  ANY of our other allies to the tune of several billion a year.  we give more to israel than we do to starving countries with no clean water.  meanwhile israel has a 200 billion dollar a year economy.   that's what I call some effective lobbying!
Logged

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4
Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Cut Israel Off « previous next »
    Jump to:  


    RSS Feed Subscribe Subscribe by RSS
    Email Subscribe Subscribe by Email


    Popular Articles
    How To Find A Bad Movie

    The Champions of Justice

    Plan 9 from Outer Space

    Manos, The Hands of Fate

    Podcast: Todd the Convenience Store Clerk

    Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!

    Dragonball: The Magic Begins

    Cool As Ice

    The Educational Archives: Driver's Ed

    Godzilla vs. Monster Zero

    Do you have a zombie plan?

    FROM THE BADMOVIES.ORG ARCHIVES
    ImageThe Giant Claw - Slime drop

    Earth is visited by a GIANT ANTIMATTER SPACE BUZZARD! Gawk at the amazingly bad bird puppet, or chuckle over the silly dialog. This is one of the greatest b-movies ever made.

    Lesson Learned:
    • Osmosis: os·mo·sis (oz-mo'sis, os-) n., 1. When a bird eats something.

    Subscribe to Badmovies.org and get updates by email:

    HOME B-Movie Reviews Reader Reviews Forum Interviews TV Shows Advertising Information Sideshows Links Contact

    Badmovies.org is owned and operated by Andrew Borntreger. All original content is © 1998 - 2014 by its respective author(s). Image, video, and audio files are used in accordance with the Fair Use Law, and are property of the film copyright holders. You may freely link to any page (.html or .php) on this website, but reproduction in any other form must be authorized by the copyright holder.