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Badmovies.org Forum  |  Other Topics  |  Off Topic Discussion  |  Cut Israel Off « previous next »
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Author Topic: Cut Israel Off  (Read 10474 times)
Inyarear
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« Reply #30 on: November 25, 2007, 05:52:36 AM »

And this, Lester, is why nobody here likes you: because you, like the rest of the Paulbots, Stormfronters, Truthers, and other assorted nutjobs who hate Israel are historically lacking, full of lies, self-righteous, and full of the very smears and character assassinations you regularly decry in others. I should also remind you that the convergence-between-far-left-and-far-right conspiracy theorist lunatics of LewRockWell are not exactly considered credible by much of anyone other than Stormfront, Alex Jones, and the rest of Cindy Sheehan and David Duke's bosom buddies; if you expect anyone to listen to anything you say when you cite raving retards like Cattan and Reese, you seriously need to get out more.

I'm ready to go that joke about the "Mixed-up Gentiles" one better. Speaking of Rachel Corrie (as evil a woman as ever shilled for the terrorists and mass-murderers of "Palestine"), here's a funny little article from a far more credible source that demonstrates how reality really can be more hilarious than fiction:

Quote
The Rachel Corrie Pancake Breakfast

Sun, Mar 5, 2006 at 8:58:34 pm PST

Truly, reality has come full circle, as Indymedia unwittingly imitates Little Green Footballs: Rachel Corrie Pancake Breakfast. (Hat tip: IDF Dave.)

No, it’s not a joke.

Quote
The Rachel Corrie Memorial Committee of Victoria Invites you to a pancake breakfast at Denny’s Restaurant Sunday March 12 , 2006 10 am.

    The Public is invited to a memorial pancake breakfast at Denny’s Restaurant on Douglas Street near Finlayson, 10 am, Sunday March 12, 2006 to celebrate the life and untimely death of Rachel Corrie, Peace Activist with the International Solidarity Movement.

    There will be a reading of selections from Ms. Corrie’s letters and diary, followed by a ceremony at Topaz Park, where a stone cairn will be erected in her honour.

    Attendees are encouraged to wear their keffiahs, and to dress in black.

    No weapons, drugs, or alcohol please.

(Web address removed by Inyarear, as I wouldn't want to help anyone find their way to any of Lester's fellow hate-mongers.)

    ISM offers many ways for you to get involved in the struggle for Palestinian freedom. Whether you’re thinking of traveling to Palestine to work with us, or you’d like to work to educate your community about the reality in Palestine, we welcome your involvement.


For those of you who didn't bother googling Lester the half-wit's search terms (and who can blame you for that?) Rachel Corrie is the flag-burning terrorist enabler who met her well-deserved demise getting run over by a bulldozer while protesting the demolition of some of her beloved terrorists' houses. Funny friends, these!
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indianasmith
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« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2007, 09:13:40 AM »

Folks, Lester is not gonna change his mind and I'm not changing mine.  Shall we quit flogging a dead horse?
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« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2007, 10:55:53 AM »

inyarear-  I've been coming to this board for around 8 years and that has to be the single most hateful ignorant post that I've ever seen.  Even at the height of the Star wars first 3 episodes and related controversies.  Your arrogance is a great example of the mentality of the people who have thusfar cost us 2.4 trillion and nearly 4,000 dead in iraq.   I don't know much about david duke, but I doubt even he would find the murdering of a mixed up, american college kid by a foreign government as fodder for humor.  You are in a very very dark place.

edit:  as for your "more credible" source:  I don't doubt henry Cattans reading of history is biased towards the palestinian viewpoint, but the idea that an american blog that was started in 2000 is more credible than the writings of a guy who lived in Palestine before and after the creation of the state of israel is ridiculous on the face of it.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 11:02:39 AM by lester1/2jr » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2007, 11:52:31 AM »

Let's keep the debate to the issues and not commit personal attacks.
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Andrew Borntreger
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« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2007, 03:31:16 PM »

Well,all I gotta say is: I like Lester,and I think he makes some good points...whether they be PC or not...neverthe less.....so to say "nobody likes Lester " is BS... He may be not of the same political mind as others...but he is certainly no Adolf Hitler! Narrow mindedness is the enemy.

 Not following the herd...and seeing through political whitewash is NOT radical...it's called INDEPENDENT thinking...which is something more people should do nowadays. To NOT question the status quo is fall into the trap that gave rise to people like Hitler.




 

 
 
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indianasmith
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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2007, 04:16:32 PM »

Karma to RC for a point well made!!!  Political differences don't need to sink to personal cheap shots!

Uh-oh . . . the horse twitched . . . LET'S FLOG IT SOME  MORE!!!!!!! TeddyR

ps I like Lester too, even if I do think he's wrong on this and many other topics.
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Inyarear
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« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2007, 07:18:33 PM »

inyarear-  I've been coming to this board for around 8 years and that has to be the single most hateful ignorant post that I've ever seen.


Then you must not read what you write very much; which explains a lot.

Your arrogance is a great example of the mentality of the people who have thusfar cost us 2.4 trillion and nearly 4,000 dead in iraq.


Your arrogance and solidarity with genocidal "Palestinian" (i.e. displaced Jordanian) terrorists goes hand in hand with your "blame America first" attitude and solidarity with every other mass-murdering terrorist in the Middle East, including those killers of our troops ("freedom fighters" to you, no doubt) who wanted Saddam to remain in power and go on funding and equipping our enemies.

Your contention about the costs of this war is pure sophistry; the cost of NOT going after our enemies, of encouraging more terrorist attacks with your vapid and cowardly belief that offering up millions of Israeli men, women, and children on the altar of appeasement would somehow convince the terrorists not to come after us is far, far higher in both blood and treasure than anything this war has cost us so far.

Moreover, it's your despotic Baathist buddies and their world-domination-seeking Islamist Taliban and Al Qaeda allies who've killed our troops and forced us to spend our military budget going after them, not our leaders; only a sick and depraved mind could see any moral equivalence between the murderers of our troops and the men who sent our troops to kill those murderers at risk to themselves, but that's the very kind of mind all Israel-haters have--and all blame-America-firsters, which is why there's so much overlap between the two.

I don't know much about david duke, but I doubt even he would find the murdering of a mixed up, american college kid by a foreign government as fodder for humor.


You don't, huh? I have a hard time believing that, considering how many of your favorite causes he supports (Ron Paul, for one). Here's the guy during his college years:



Considering that David Duke is a KKK Imperial Wizard and the founder of several anti-semitic groups, I think he would very much find it a source of humor to see a "mixed up college student" murdered by a foreign government, especially if that kid happened to be Jewish.

But hey, you're the one who went spouting off about that evil terrorist enabler Rachel Corrie and telling everyone to google her. Unfortunately for you, I'd already read about all the evil she preached and worked for. What, you don't like people revealing some of the more repugnant facts about your allies? Now, when faced with what a hateful, treasonous, despicable woman she was, you try to pretend she was some naive little girl and didn't know what she was doing? Yes, her innocence is just written all over her face, isn't it?



What a farce! How can I not laugh when her very own allies screw up so royally in their efforts to honor her and her thoroughly evil cause? (They seem to think she knew what she was doing!) The only hateful act here is your attempt to portray the hate-monger as the innocent victim and the real victims as the murderers. Fact: her death was an accident. The only evil perpetrated here was against Israel by Corrie's terrorist buddies and their enablers (i.e. herself).

You are in a very very dark place.


No, it is you who are in the benighted and morally bankrupt state of not being able to see anything wrong with throwing our best foul-weather allies under a bus in what is bound to be a thoroughly futile effort to appease the Islamist death cultists dedicated to our extermination.

as for your "more credible" source:  I don't doubt henry Cattans reading of history is biased towards the palestinian viewpoint, but the idea that an american blog that was started in 2000 is more credible than the writings of a guy who lived in Palestine before and after the creation of the state of israel is ridiculous on the face of it.


The idea that I should trust the partisan polemics of a Palestinian lawyer over the up-to-date news about real terrorism against Israel and the U.S. and the West in general simply because the partisan lawyer in question is older than the blog is what's ridiculous on the face of it. Whatever trumped-up charges and heavily biased interpretations of the past your old partisan hack may offer, what I and the other supporters of Israel see here in the present, thanks to Little Green Footballs' fastidious gathering of news and information from other credible sources (such as MEMRI, for one) is "Palestinians" voting for Hamas terrorists to be their leaders, "Palestinians" dressing their children up as suicide bombers, "Palestinians" refusing any and all peace deals offered them no matter how unfair in their favor such deals inevitably are, "Palestinians" blowing up Israeli men, women, and children indiscriminately, and "Palestinians" dancing for joy in the streets at the news of thousands of deaths here in the USA from the 9/11 attacks.

These sources also show me the other Arab nations refusing Israel all recognition as a legitimate nation, supporting terrorist groups such as Hezbollah, promoting blatantly racist literature in their schools that portrays Jews as pigs and monkeys, distorting the news via their staged videos and fauxtography, firing Katyushas indiscriminately into Israel's civilian population, and generally behaving like utter psychopaths while simultaneously oppressing their own peoples with laws that forbid the practice of any religion but hard-core fundamentalist Islam, reduce women to chattel, and gather all power into the hands of despotic monarchies and dictatorships.

Against that, all this anti-Zionist crap about how these "Palestinians" are such wonderful peace-loving people while Israel is some kind of monstrous, violent "occupier" with no right to exist and therefore no right to defend itself against its enemies' nakedly genocidal intentions is revealed to be a bald-faced lie. Indeed, anyone who bothers to pay attention to any of the atrocities these Islamists have been committing on a daily basis against everybody in reach and the threats they've been quite openly breathing out against us for decades and centuries should have no trouble whatsoever discerning who the good guys are and who the bad guys are.

Good: the loyal citizens and troops of the USA, Israel, and liberated Iraq. Bad: Fatah, Hamas, Hezbollah, Baathists, Al Quds, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Khatami, Ahmadinejad, Assad, the late Saddam Hussein, the late Al-Zarqawi, and Osama bin Laden (if he's still alive). Also bad: Stormfronters, Paulbots, KKK members, Code Pink, ANSWER, and every celebrity, media outlet, and politician that caters to these twisted terrorists and their depraved domestic supporters. This is not a morally ambiguous choice; not one of these Israel-hating organizations has any morally redeeming value to it whatsoever. Not one comes anywhere close to being as morally upstanding and civilized as liberated Iraq, let alone Israel or the USA.

When you come on here arguing for deserting our Israeli allies, therefore, the moral clarity our news sources provide leaves us no doubt that you are an apologist for the bad guys, that your sources are all tainted with deception and moral depravity, and that your cause is evil.
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Inyarear
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« Reply #37 on: November 25, 2007, 07:32:48 PM »

Not following the herd...and seeing through political whitewash is NOT radical...it's called INDEPENDENT thinking...which is something more people should do nowadays. To NOT question the status quo is fall into the trap that gave rise to people like Hitler.

Following another herd and buying into a different brand of political whitewash is NOT independent thinking. To trade one herd mentality for another is the trap that handed half of Europe over to Joseph Stalin's tender mercies after World War II. One must be able to see through the popular delusion that any group is "independent-thinking" merely if it is unpopular and/or in the minority in order to be truly independent, just as one must see through the delusion that popularity and consensus is equivalent to truth.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #38 on: November 26, 2007, 12:22:19 AM »

Hmmmm  . . . . I guess the horse twitched again!!!!
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« Reply #39 on: November 26, 2007, 12:35:59 AM »

Hmmmm  . . . . I guess the horse twitched again!!!!

Doesn't that light look like a pony .... hi pony.
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Ash
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« Reply #40 on: November 26, 2007, 06:30:47 AM »

Lester had -1 karma so I bumped him back up to 0.
(I know what it's like to have negative karma and it sucks!)

The guy is just voicing his opinion.
Just because you don't agree with it is no reason to kick him around in the karma department.

I have to ask you Lester...
Are you of Middle Eastern descent?
Or are you Muslim?

If you are...that's cool with me.
I was just curious.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 06:36:21 AM by Ash » Logged
lester1/2jr
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« Reply #41 on: November 26, 2007, 10:41:28 AM »

ash- I'm a pretty typical New england WASP.  I 've never read the Quran.  I spent alot of time at a shia website called shiachat.  it didn't turn me muslim, but it did reinforce what I see as the futility of our overseas empire.  central planning doesn't work in general.  we've known this since like 1917 when communism flundered out of the gates.

inyarear
Quote
To trade one herd mentality for another is the trap that handed half of Europe over to Joseph Stalin's tender mercies after World War II

I agree.  not to open an entirely different can of worms but are you a revisionist on WW2 at all?  because i am of the Barborassa was a mistake school.  we should have just let the nazis and commies fight it out.


that is my problem with inteventionism in general.  Al queda wanted to fight saddam for the saudis but they chose us instead.  How great wold it have been if Al queda and Saddam Hussein had gone to war?  same in afghanistan.  we gave stinger missiles to the mujahadeen who were so pleased with the results they drove the commies out and formed al queda.

I would have prefered they still be quagmired their together to this day.



I'm not pro palestinian.  the article is "cut israel off", not add palestine. 


I respect your views bro.  I'm a pro market isolationist basically.  I don't believe in the power of war because everyone I know who has been involved in one has said it was the absolute worst thing ever if it didn't kill them before they could say that to me.

I mean, we were in vietnam for 10 years ans accomplished very little.  we left, they got a taste of communism which meant saving up for 5 years to buying a crappy schwin bike and now they are practically begging us to open sweatshops there. of their own volition.  so, to me, we "won" Vietnam.  with our ideas.
 
peace bro
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Inyarear
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« Reply #42 on: November 26, 2007, 03:49:56 PM »

I agree.  not to open an entirely different can of worms but are you a revisionist on WW2 at all?  because i am of the Barborassa was a mistake school.  we should have just let the nazis and commies fight it out.


Technically, that's what we did, to our ultimate regret; as I recall, Barbarossa was the Nazi's invasion plan for the Soviet Union, and it was a hideous mistake--on Hitler's part. I'm of the persuasion that World War II was a necessary war, but that it was, as usual, a lot messier than textbooks for history classes like to portray it. There were some at the time who said we ought to stay out of World War II altogether, that Germany and the Soviet Union would ultimately swallow each other, but I doubt that was really a prudent option in light of the fact that the war essentially began with the two of them deciding to sign a pact with each other to leave each other alone as they gobbled up the world around them.

My own grandfather on my father's side, who was a real far-left pacifist in his time, nevertheless was quite vocal in favor of our intervention in World War II right up to the end of his days, claiming that had Germany and Japan been successful in their plans to gobble up the rest of the world, they would only then have turned on each other and fought a final battle for complete world domination. (He didn't mention the Soviet Union, but I'm sure he would agree Stalin was planning this as well.) Bringing Stalin on board with the Allies was our deal with the devil, but there's some question of whether we really had any other option but to intervene and to cut our diabolical deal. Having the bad guys swallow each other only after they'd swallowed us was a no-win situation any way we looked at it.

The Berlin campaign was another case of having to choose between two bad options: taking Germany and as much of Eastern Europe as possible at the cost of massive casualties to our own troops, or letting the Soviets bear the losses and taking our chances with what concessions they might wring out of us in the aftermath. Turns out they got a heck of a deal in their favor, starved and slaughtered tens (or hundreds, depending on who's counting and where) of millions, and gave us the Cold War and the subsequent multi-trillion-dollar arms race. Oops. On the other hand, who knows what dreadful consequences might have resulted, had we chosen the other option and borne the casualties ourselves? We might have been able to tip the balance of power decidedly in our favor, but such imbalances might have brought us one final Hot War, so to speak.

that is my problem with inteventionism in general.  Al queda wanted to fight saddam for the saudis but they chose us instead.  How great wold it have been if Al queda and Saddam Hussein had gone to war?  same in afghanistan.  we gave stinger missiles to the mujahadeen who were so pleased with the results they drove the commies out and formed al queda.


It's true that these Muslim terrorists and dictators and countries have been almost as fractious with each other as with us, but the fact is that Saddam was hard at work patching things up with his neighbors and enemies alike (often the same people) right up to the time of our invasion.

This is why I do not accept contentions I sometimes hear about this war being "hypocritical" simply because we'd had fleeting alliances with both Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein against other foes in the past; Iran and the Soviet Union used to be the greater threats to us. With the Soviet Union collapsed, Iran and Iraq were buddying up to each other again after their long war, and our former allies in Afghanistan were stabbing us in the back and making friendly with the other terrorists again, including (as lately indicated in the damning documents captured in Iraq, in spite of the Senate committee's sloppy and deceptive propaganda to the contrary) Saddam. Dealing with the new threats was long overdue, and that's what I see us doing here.

I would have prefered they still be quagmired their together to this day.


As would I, but reality rarely provides us with what we want. On the brighter side of current events, though, Al Qaeda seems to feel that it's in one heck of a quagmire with us right now. Nothing like a little enemy despair to brighten my day.

I'm not pro palestinian.  the article is "cut israel off", not add palestine.


Yet the article you cite is pro-Palestine, and you cite some of Israel's supposed misbehavior as justification. I can think of a bunch of countries deserving of losing our foreign aid (and others that would actually be better off if we didn't send them any), but Israel is not one of them.

I respect your views bro.  I'm a pro market isolationist basically.  I don't believe in the power of war because everyone I know who has been involved in one has said it was the absolute worst thing ever if it didn't kill them before they could say that to me.


Free markets are good when you can get them, but free trade inevitably requires that you cut deals with foreigners, not all of whom are so friendly to free trade as you; these deals do not jibe well with isolationism. Neither does a show of weakness in the face of real threats encourage better dealings with these other countries.

Nobody I know is fond of the bloodletting and pain and death of war either, but my grandfather on my mother's side in particular (survivor of the bloody air battles against Japan in World War II) was always a strong believer in its necessity in certain circumstances, as am I. The enemies we're facing now use decidedly different tactics against us and have somewhat different motives, but they're as hell-bent on destroying us and dominating the world for their cultish ideology as each of the dictators in World War II was.

I mean, we were in vietnam for 10 years ans accomplished very little.  we left, they got a taste of communism which meant saving up for 5 years to buying a crappy schwin bike and now they are practically begging us to open sweatshops there. of their own volition.  so, to me, we "won" Vietnam.  with our ideas.


This assessment rather glosses over the price of this rather ambiguous metaphysical "victory" in Vietnam, especially the millions of Vietnamese boat people those commies murdered and the continuing cruelty and oppression in the decades that followed. That's quite a "taste" indeed! I can't really count that as much of a success for peace and free markets, personally. That's my problem with pacifism in general, really: it doesn't bring peace. Peace costs money, and sometimes lives. It's a good thing Vietnam's fall didn't bring about a domino effect as some feared, but throwing all those people in Vietnam to the wolves doesn't strike me as something to be proud of.

War isn't the solution to every problem, which is why we "neo-con" types pretty much told the Bush-bashing Democrats to go take a flying leap when they suddenly decided they liked war after all, as long as it was a war in Darfur. This is also, I suspect, why Bush doesn't move on Iran; Iran may soon collapse on its own anyway, so why rush things? Still, war has a way of being the only solution to some problems; specifically, the problem of people whose foreign policy consists mainly of suicide bombing.

One quibble that does occur to me, though, is that we really need to get back into the business of declaring these wars again; nearly all of the jerks in Congress who go around bashing Bush over the war are the very same ones who voted for it, but now they're pretending it's all his war and that they have no stake in it, and they go schmoozing with every one of our enemies in the Middle East. If that's how they're going to behave, I hope the next President holds their feet to the fire and makes them commit themselves to their wars before he goes taking charge of them. Too bad Bush is too nice to do that now, though at least he continues to hold the line on finishing the job.

peace bro


Peace at its price; count the cost, bro.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #43 on: November 26, 2007, 04:23:49 PM »

inyorear- my grandfather dropped bombs on german cities.  he drank himself to death in no small part because he was haunted about what he'd done.  he went back to germany after the war and visited some of the places he'd bombed.  Before that he had been a big shot in textiles when FDR's new Deal pretty much killed capitalism in the US .    He was close to a dictator in many ways that guy.  lots of extra constitutional orders, stacking the courts and communistic central planning, not to mention f**k all high taxes.   


  My dad was in vietnam.  okay, he was an accountant in vietnam (long story) but he stil says it was the worst two years of his life.  He actually asked me a while ago "lester you know about politics...what was vietnam abuot?"  I mumbled something about the domino theory.


  then he worked his whole career in tax law, explaining the increasingly ridiculous tax code to other befuddled tax law people.  as a big send off for retirement he and his wife were almost killed on 9/11. she was in the stairwell of tower two when the second plane hit.



  so, as you can imagine, we are all pretty anti state in the lester household ! 



   as for whatever saddam was doing with terrorists, I say : who cares.  I live in the US, not the middle east and that's by choice.  If India, Israel and western companies have issues with various middle eastern actos that is the problem of those people, not me.  My ancestors, the drunken WASP ones and the eastern european ones came here for liberty and prosperity, not any of this national greatness, police the world s**t.


Quote
we really need to get back into the business of declaring these wars again

I agreee


Quote
which is why we "neo-con" types pretty much told the Bush-bashing Democrats to go take a flying leap when they suddenly decided they liked war after all


I agree a hundred percent here as well.  another oil rich muslim country is not where we need to be.  i was against all of slick willy's military adventures as well. 

revolutionary war and the souths sucession from the north.  that's abuot all the war i can support! 




favorite president:  none

least favorite: all





also, "cutting israel off" will

1.  allow them to defend themselves as they see fit

2. also mean the end of our bribing of egypt , saudi arabia, pakistan and other dictatorships in the name of preserving the peace there.

I mean, we're giving billions to wahabi muslims for crying out loud. 
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Zapranoth
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« Reply #44 on: November 26, 2007, 09:35:03 PM »

I just want to congratulate you both on turning this from what it was into an interesting discussion, with show of mutual respect.

Thank you.

I'm goin' back to watching "Weasels Taze my Kosher Flesh" now.   Drink
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