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November 23, 2014, 09:53:14 PM
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Author Topic: Christmas tree up or down  (Read 3628 times)
raj
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« on: November 29, 2007, 01:09:37 PM »

Based on one complaint, Mississippi State U. took down a Christmas tree, but then decided to put it back up.

http://www.ky3.com/news/local/11913886.html


I've got atheist friends, and they celebrate Christmas, with a Christmas tree.  Really, this PC, must bend over backwards to be sensitive to everyone else bullcrap is way over the line.  Besides, a Christmas tree is not a religious symbol.  Hatred
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2007, 01:21:06 PM »

Here's another article in the same subject.  Wisconsin debates Christmas vs. Holiday

I wish this moronic crap would end.  Our law makers should leave Christmas alone and get back to doing what they're supposed to.
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Ash
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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2007, 05:10:34 PM »

At my job, we're required to verify phone sales for Wells Fargo banking, Vonage, DirecTV, Scholastic books etc...

If the rep says "Merry Christmas" or anything similar, we have to report it.
And when we do, they get written up for being "slightly rude".
About the only thing they can say is "Happy Holidays" without getting in trouble.

Heck, just two years ago when all of that "War on Christmas" crap was all the rage with the politically correct a**holes, we weren't even allowed to put up the Christmas tree in our workplace...for fear that someone may be offended. 
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2007, 06:17:29 PM »

I have Jewish and Hindu friends that celebrate Christmas.

This PC pandering to the vocal minority is getting out of hand. If you don't like Christmas, fine; don't celebrate it.
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Mr_Vindictive
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2007, 06:26:06 PM »

I've got atheist friends, and they celebrate Christmas, with a Christmas tree. 

Count me in as one of those.  I myself am an atheist but I still enjoy a good bit of Christmas spirit.  It's the time of year for me, not the religious connotations that I enjoy.  I grew up with hanging stockings, a Christmas tree, garland, cookies and eggnog; that's exactly how my daughter now experiences it as well.
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2007, 09:54:38 AM »

I was raised in the Church of Christ (not the UCC) where Christmas is strictly a secular holiday because celebrating Jesus birth is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.

I'm thinking about posting a piece my Dad wrote many years ago about the origins of Christmas.
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raj
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2007, 10:24:48 AM »

Please do, trek.

I'm not particularly religious or even spiritual, but to me the main holiday (and what it is all about) for Christians is Easter.  Death and resurrection with eternal life is, again to me, the main theme of Christianity.  Jesus's birth is much less important than his rebirth.

Of course, I only step foot inside a church (or synagogue) is for weddings and funerals.
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Jack
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2007, 12:20:26 PM »

I'm an atheist but I love Christmas - it's a beautiful cultural tradition.  All this PC nonsense is a huge load of BS.  Saying that a Christmas tree "offends" you is no different than someone saying that a gay pride parade "offends" you.  Tolerance my ass - is all about intolerance.
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evildeadchick187
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2007, 12:45:38 PM »

 I applied at Hollywood video a few weeks back just as a second job for some extra spending cash for Christmas. Like ash said I too am not allowed to say Marry Christmas, it is happy holiday or nothing. I think it is absurd that I am not allowed to speak my mind and IMO greet someone in a way that I find cheerful. I find it offensive to me that I have to limit my vocabulary and my decorations because of someone else being bit##y.
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AndyC
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2007, 01:59:42 PM »

I'm not particularly religious or even spiritual, but to me the main holiday (and what it is all about) for Christians is Easter.  Death and resurrection with eternal life is, again to me, the main theme of Christianity.  Jesus's birth is much less important than his rebirth.

Raj is correct. Easter is the main Christian holiday. Not entirely sure how it got eclipsed by Christmas, but it might have something to do with the story being far more pleasant, what with death and betrayal not playing an integral part. My best guess, however, would be because Christmas, as we celebrate it, is not so much a Christian festival as it is a repackaged Pagan festival. Yule, for European Pagans, was the festival of rebirth. Days reached their shortest and started getting longer again. That's why Christmas falls close to the winter solstice. Part of converting Pagans was to let them have their fun as usual, but give them a Christian reason for doing it.

That's why I have to laugh at the fuss over Christmas trees. Trees, holly, mistletoe, wreaths, Yule logs, etc. aren't even Christian symbols.

Mind you, I find it no less stupid to ban Nativity scenes from public places. I often wonder if it is so much that non-Christians are actually offended by this stuff, or is it just overly-sensitive WASPs who are afraid it might upset someone. You have to wonder who the bigot is - the guy who puts up his manger scene in the front yard without a second thought, or the guy who is constantly aware of people who are different and apparently less capable of tolerance than himself.
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CheezeFlixz
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2007, 08:20:20 PM »

Raj is correct. Easter is the main Christian holiday. Not entirely sure how it got eclipsed by Christmas, but it might have something to do with the story being far more pleasant, what with death and betrayal not playing an integral part. My best guess, however, would be because Christmas, as we celebrate it, is not so much a Christian festival as it is a repackaged Pagan festival. Yule, for European Pagans, was the festival of rebirth. Days reached their shortest and started getting longer again. That's why Christmas falls close to the winter solstice. Part of converting Pagans was to let them have their fun as usual, but give them a Christian reason for doing it.

That's why I have to laugh at the fuss over Christmas trees. Trees, holly, mistletoe, wreaths, Yule logs, etc. aren't even Christian symbols.

Mind you, I find it no less stupid to ban Nativity scenes from public places. I often wonder if it is so much that non-Christians are actually offended by this stuff, or is it just overly-sensitive WASPs who are afraid it might upset someone. You have to wonder who the bigot is - the guy who puts up his manger scene in the front yard without a second thought, or the guy who is constantly aware of people who are different and apparently less capable of tolerance than himself.

Don't forget Easter is based on Pagan spring planting celebrations, otherwise easter wouldn't be on a different day every year. Most of the western world holidays are based in pagan celebrations.
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« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2007, 08:32:03 PM »

I have brought up my anti-Xmas sentiments before on this board but I say if you want to put a tree go ahead.  I'm not a relgious guy either but I see nothing wrong with radio stations playing songs with religious content like "O Holy Night".  That will be b*tched about next if they haven't already. 
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2007, 07:19:24 PM »

This is an article written by my Dad sometime back in the early 80's.  He was an amateur Bible scholar and sought out speaker by many Churches in our home town. He died in 1988, he would have been 96 this last November were he still around.

This piece really put Christmas in perspective for me.


We Celebrate Christmas

BY J. Henry Erwin

Christmas is undoubtedly the premier holiday in the United States and in other parts of the world. In the Roman Catholic world, it is first in the list of holy days of obligation, and a Catholic who through his own fault misses Mass on a holiday of obligation commits a mortal sin.

The name Christmas is derived from the medieval Christes Masse, the Mass of Christ, commemorating the birth of Jesus and observed annually on December 25. The celebration was not observed in the first centuries of the church, since the Christian usage was to celebrate the death of the Lord in the Lord's Supper on the first day of each week. The original position to the doctrine of the Manichaeans, who looked upon Jesus Christ as dual in nature; Jesus impatibilis, a sort of phantom or immaterial personage who did not or could not suffer, and Jesus patibilis, who suffer­ed death upon the cross. Then in the fifth century, the Western Church, rapidly heading toward full apostasy, ordered the feast to be celebrated on the day of the birth of Mithras the sun-god, December 25.

Thus we see that Christmas is really a relic of ancient paganism. The Mithraic rites of the birth of the sun and the close of the Saturnalia marked the date of the winter solstice. As the sun returned from its long journey south of the equator and the days began to lengthen, the pagans regarded it as the triumphant in arch of Light conquering the forces of Darkness. It was celebrated by the lighting of candles, the chanting of sacred music,the tonsuring of the priest's heads, leaving the spot shaven surrounded by hair in imitation of the sun's rays.

As missionaries began to reach the German and Celtic tribes of the North, many Teutonic customs of celebrating the winter solstice were added to Christmas, such as the use of holly and mistletoe, the wassail bowl, and the yule log. The Christmas tree probably can be traced to ancient Druid ceremonies of de­corating the sacred trees with ornaments of silver and gold and other gifts. For those who like to find parallels in the Bible, I refer them to Jeremiah 10:3-4—"for one cutting a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not."

The cynical ones among us refer to Christmas as the 'Great Splurge" and the "Annual Swap." Little children, they say, are taught the value of bribery by instilling in their minds that they had better be good of "Santa Claus will not come to see you." Others complain about commercial­ization and deplore the enormous sums of money wasted on gaudy trash each Yuletide season. Many automobile bumpers stickers bear the slogan, "Put Christ Back in Christmas." Of course, Christ never was in Christmas, but in spite of all the cynicism, commercialism, and obvious excesses, the beautiful story of the birth of Christ manages to come shining through; and for some, it is the only time they ever think of it, and the spirit of altruism affects all of us.

Somehow, when we see the brightly colored lights in the windows of homes and stores, and the scenes of the manger and the mother and the holy Child, we are really seeing all of the children of the world who are fortunate enough to participate in this festival, for this is their day. Christmas is popular among us all, including the sceptics and non-religious, for it is a holiday. It is a welcome time of vacation from schoolroom classes and homework. It is a day of rest and recreation for the overworked toiler, allowing them to meet their friends and families. It is a time when we remember some almost forgotten relative or friend removed from us by distance and time. We send a greeting card or a gift as a token of remembrance and love; we are glad of days of receiving and giving, of hearthside, home, and aging parents.

Why does Christmas enjoy almost worId-wide popularity? Because it is a festival of humanity, really, and because it is interwoven with national traditions, habits, literature and religion. I intend to enjoy it. How about you?

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

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AndyC
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« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2007, 07:40:57 PM »

Don't forget Easter is based on Pagan spring planting celebrations, otherwise easter wouldn't be on a different day every year. Most of the western world holidays are based in pagan celebrations.

Yep, Easter is another holiday that makes a lot more sense when you understand the origins. I remember asking why the date moved around with the lunar phases if it's an anniversary, and questioning what rabbits and eggs had to do with anything. For a Pagan fertility festival, it all makes sense.
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« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2007, 08:13:54 PM »

I fully support public displays of Christmas. I also have no issue with any other religion celebrating their holidays in the same manner. I think that the people that b***h and moan about Christmas are people with too much time on their hands. If we are not careful we are not going to have any holidays anymore. It's mutually assured destruction if you think that your holiday is safe, think again. Every thin-skinned whiner out there with a gripe just needs some stupid PC judge or worse human resources rep (they are the bane of all existence) to ruin lives of others. I mean how difficult is it not to be p**sed off if someone wishes you Merry Christmas and you are not Christian. You are not being offended or attacked, someone is wishing you well.
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