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Author Topic: How long does Amy Winehouse have?  (Read 16902 times)
Allhallowsday
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« Reply #90 on: July 24, 2011, 09:38:18 PM »

Not meaning to offend anyone here, because this has more to do with posts on news sites, I'm really annoyed by all the comments about what a tragedy this is because she was just so talented.

Would it be less tragic, less of a senseless waste if she wasn't famous? Or if she was a mediocre singer? Does "talent" excuse her from any responsibility for the choices she made? It just seems irrelevant to me.

And I never saw that much talent, personally. But that's just my own opinion.
Who excused her?  Which part is "irrelevant"?  Her "fame"?  Well, you don't know, you're puffin'.  It seems blubbering to me.  Yes, I proclaim unto you (TeddyR) enormous talent certainly warrants lament if wasted (though you may not agree) but I have not read one post here that suggested this was tragic because of her fame.  Her fame was a by-product of a genuinely remarkable recording artist.  She wrote and sang her own songs, and they are great.  Don't skirt your true opinion.  Your comment about her talent is the most telling aspect of your remarks.  You din't git 'er.  Okay.   Smile Bluesad  You don't know what you're missin'... or your ass from your elbow.  Thumbup Smile  Who cares 'bout "mediocre singers"?  They die every day.  AMY WINEHOUSE's death is tragic because of her enormous talent, which is wasted.  I am truly sorry there won't be a third album.  
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« Reply #91 on: July 25, 2011, 12:40:42 AM »

Everybody, famous or not, who goes down a path of self-destruction has potential that is wasted. Potential that might not even be recognized, much less realized. There are people who don't have access to the best treatment or support, who don't have people to worry about them or lament their wasted potential. Who might not even understand what a serious problem they have, or what they can do about it. Most everyone starts out as an innocent child with potential, but there will always be some who end up leading deeply troubled, sometimes short lives. Some have strikes against them from the beginning. To me, that's tragic.

Amy Winehouse realized her potential to a greater degree than most people. She had two successful albums and fans who wish there could be more. She has fans who cared about her, family who cared about her, business people with a vested interest in her physical and mental health, plenty of resources at her disposal. All the help she could want. And yet she still managed to destroy herself physically, and she was well on her way to doing it professionally. To me, she's more than cancelled out any points she scored for musical success in the past. She got the outcome everyone knew she was headed for, without so much as a slight detour along the way that looked like she might actually give a damn. I find it difficult to muster up any pity. The fact that she was a successful singer at one time doesn't make it more tragic for me, but rather more disgusting. Even if I did enjoy her music, I don't think I would be lamenting the loss of her talent as much as I would hold her responsible for throwing it away.
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« Reply #92 on: July 25, 2011, 06:06:54 AM »

I dunno...not famliar with her music..but I feel rotton for saying making jokes at her expense now...
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #93 on: July 25, 2011, 10:25:58 AM »

Everybody, famous or not, who goes down a path of self-destruction has potential that is wasted. Potential that might not even be recognized, much less realized. There are people who don't have access to the best treatment or support, who don't have people to worry about them or lament their wasted potential. Who might not even understand what a serious problem they have, or what they can do about it. Most everyone starts out as an innocent child with potential, but there will always be some who end up leading deeply troubled, sometimes short lives. Some have strikes against them from the beginning. To me, that's tragic.

Amy Winehouse realized her potential to a greater degree than most people. She had two successful albums and fans who wish there could be more. She has fans who cared about her, family who cared about her, business people with a vested interest in her physical and mental health, plenty of resources at her disposal. All the help she could want. And yet she still managed to destroy herself physically, and she was well on her way to doing it professionally. To me, she's more than cancelled out any points she scored for musical success in the past. She got the outcome everyone knew she was headed for, without so much as a slight detour along the way that looked like she might actually give a damn. I find it difficult to muster up any pity. The fact that she was a successful singer at one time doesn't make it more tragic for me, but rather more disgusting. Even if I did enjoy her music, I don't think I would be lamenting the loss of her talent as much as I would hold her responsible for throwing it away.
And what insight are you offering?  Really man, you tipped your hand.  And I don't disagree that she "threw it away" but I'm also not keeping a scorecard with "any points she scored".  Like I had written, she was a train-wreck.  Whether you appreciate her music or not, you'll hear her name again.  And again. 
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AndyC
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« Reply #94 on: July 25, 2011, 11:53:44 AM »

Everybody, famous or not, who goes down a path of self-destruction has potential that is wasted. Potential that might not even be recognized, much less realized. There are people who don't have access to the best treatment or support, who don't have people to worry about them or lament their wasted potential. Who might not even understand what a serious problem they have, or what they can do about it. Most everyone starts out as an innocent child with potential, but there will always be some who end up leading deeply troubled, sometimes short lives. Some have strikes against them from the beginning. To me, that's tragic.

Amy Winehouse realized her potential to a greater degree than most people. She had two successful albums and fans who wish there could be more. She has fans who cared about her, family who cared about her, business people with a vested interest in her physical and mental health, plenty of resources at her disposal. All the help she could want. And yet she still managed to destroy herself physically, and she was well on her way to doing it professionally. To me, she's more than cancelled out any points she scored for musical success in the past. She got the outcome everyone knew she was headed for, without so much as a slight detour along the way that looked like she might actually give a damn. I find it difficult to muster up any pity. The fact that she was a successful singer at one time doesn't make it more tragic for me, but rather more disgusting. Even if I did enjoy her music, I don't think I would be lamenting the loss of her talent as much as I would hold her responsible for throwing it away.
And what insight are you offering?  Really man, you tipped your hand.  And I don't disagree that she "threw it away" but I'm also not keeping a scorecard with "any points she scored".  Like I had written, she was a train-wreck.  Whether you appreciate her music or not, you'll hear her name again.  And again. 

Not sure why you want to debate this so aggressively. I've only stated that something annoys me, and explained my personal feelings. Didn't say anything disparaging about the fans themselves, and made it pretty clear that I was not referring specifically to any comments made here. My post following yours is purely coincidental, which is why I added that disclaimer. If the remark that I "tipped my hand" is referring to my openly admitting I'm not a fan, I really don't understand. To use the same metaphor, my cards were all on the table and I had no reason to conceal them. Really, I'm not sure what there is to argue about. I'm not even sure we disagree that much on anything other than whether the music is good, which is really beside the point. I don't like her music, I don't hate her music, I don't really have any strong feelings about it one way or the other, so yeah, I never understood what the fuss was about. I think my opinion in this situation is shaped by observing without any interest in her work, as purely a celebrity's self destruction and the way people react to it. I don't think I'd have been more than vaguely aware of her if not for that.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 11:56:04 AM by AndyC » Logged

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« Reply #95 on: July 25, 2011, 12:23:02 PM »

^  Yeah guys, this doesn't need to get heated. I was actually having a bit of a debate at work today, about this. I was talking to this guy who was basically berating her for the drug/booze dependency and claimed that her music was "mad music for mad women". When pressed on it further he just admitted that he'd only heard one chorus of one song by her, that song being "Rehab". I've been talking about this a lot of the past day or two and it's the ignorance that annoys me regarding not only her talent as an original artist but about drug-taking also. I'm not an Amy Winehouse fan, but did make excellent music and did have talent. Her two records will be heralded as classics of the past decade, because honestly, there wasn't that much competition anyway.
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #96 on: July 25, 2011, 03:55:07 PM »

Everybody, famous or not, who goes down a path of self-destruction has potential that is wasted. Potential that might not even be recognized, much less realized. There are people who don't have access to the best treatment or support, who don't have people to worry about them or lament their wasted potential. Who might not even understand what a serious problem they have, or what they can do about it. Most everyone starts out as an innocent child with potential, but there will always be some who end up leading deeply troubled, sometimes short lives. Some have strikes against them from the beginning. To me, that's tragic.

Amy Winehouse realized her potential to a greater degree than most people. She had two successful albums and fans who wish there could be more. She has fans who cared about her, family who cared about her, business people with a vested interest in her physical and mental health, plenty of resources at her disposal. All the help she could want. And yet she still managed to destroy herself physically, and she was well on her way to doing it professionally. To me, she's more than cancelled out any points she scored for musical success in the past. She got the outcome everyone knew she was headed for, without so much as a slight detour along the way that looked like she might actually give a damn. I find it difficult to muster up any pity. The fact that she was a successful singer at one time doesn't make it more tragic for me, but rather more disgusting. Even if I did enjoy her music, I don't think I would be lamenting the loss of her talent as much as I would hold her responsible for throwing it away.

And what insight are you offering?  Really man, you tipped your hand.  And I don't disagree that she "threw it away" but I'm also not keeping a scorecard with "any points she scored".  Like I had written, she was a train-wreck.  Whether you appreciate her music or not, you'll hear her name again.  And again. 

Not sure why you want to debate this so aggressively. I've only stated that something annoys me, and explained my personal feelings. Didn't say anything disparaging about the fans themselves, and made it pretty clear that I was not referring specifically to any comments made here. My post following yours is purely coincidental, which is why I added that disclaimer. If the remark that I "tipped my hand" is referring to my openly admitting I'm not a fan, I really don't understand. To use the same metaphor, my cards were all on the table and I had no reason to conceal them. Really, I'm not sure what there is to argue about. I'm not even sure we disagree that much on anything other than whether the music is good, which is really beside the point. I don't like her music, I don't hate her music, I don't really have any strong feelings about it one way or the other, so yeah, I never understood what the fuss was about. I think my opinion in this situation is shaped by observing without any interest in her work, as purely a celebrity's self destruction and the way people react to it. I don't think I'd have been more than vaguely aware of her if not for that.
I'm not debating nor am I "aggressive".   I might say you are; who used more words here, you or me?   Question  Really.  But you know me well enough to know that I always write what I think.  You did write, disclaimed or not: "I'm really annoyed by all the comments about what a tragedy this is because she was just so talented."   You didn't like her.  Got it. 
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AndyC
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« Reply #97 on: July 25, 2011, 04:05:15 PM »

Nope, not aggressive at all. You're the picture of calm rationality. TongueOut
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« Reply #98 on: July 25, 2011, 04:11:38 PM »

Well, AHD, I personally relate to your sentiment on the issue of Amy Winehouse, but overall I don't see the need for what's going on here.
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #99 on: July 25, 2011, 04:55:48 PM »

Eh, Flick, nothing's going on here.  If AndyC has nothing more to say, neither do I.  We disagree, that's all.  No debate and certainly no argument. 
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HappyGilmore
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« Reply #100 on: July 25, 2011, 10:34:12 PM »

She made two great records.  In fact, some would argue that her being somewhat successful here helped re-open the door for some other British artists, especially females, to chart here again.  After her successes, artists like Duffy, Eliza Doolittle, Adele, Florence and The Machine, and La Roux have followings that, in part, were paved by her.

Sadly, her talent's become overshadowed by her numerous tabloid exploits and addictions.  It's a tough thing to overcome.  Numerous people can vouch for that. 

Small | Large
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« Reply #101 on: July 26, 2011, 12:44:18 PM »

She made two great records.  In fact, some would argue that her being somewhat successful here helped re-open the door for some other British artists, especially females, to chart here again.  After her successes, artists like Duffy, Eliza Doolittle, Adele, Florence and The Machine, and La Roux have followings that, in part, were paved by her.

Sadly, her talent's become overshadowed by her numerous tabloid exploits and addictions.  It's a tough thing to overcome.  Numerous people can vouch for that. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1evzhSast8&feature=relmfu


That's true. I'm not particularly a fan, but it's always sad when the media reacts with the standard presumption of guilt and assumes she died of an overdose. The autopsy is initially inconclusive, and there were no drugs found in her home. I'm not saying she did or not, but so far, there's nothing indicating an overdose other than her reputation. That saddest part of that is that it takes people about 1.5 seconds to assume the cause once the media starts making it's sick jokes. I feel sorry for her family that would probably like to find out the cause of death without all the media bulls**t proclaiming her an ovedose when initial evidence does not suggest it.
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #102 on: July 26, 2011, 05:05:32 PM »

...
That's true. I'm not particularly a fan, but it's always sad when the media reacts with the standard presumption of guilt and assumes she died of an overdose. The autopsy is initially inconclusive, and there were no drugs found in her home. I'm not saying she did or not, but so far, there's nothing indicating an overdose other than her reputation. That saddest part of that is that it takes people about 1.5 seconds to assume the cause once the media starts making it's sick jokes. I feel sorry for her family that would probably like to find out the cause of death without all the media bulls**t proclaiming her an ovedose when initial evidence does not suggest it.
Her father has been particularly vocal about AMY's drug abuse and self-destructive path.  And, as I'm sure AndyC would agree, he felt that whatever happened to her would be entirely AMY's own fault.  She had a number of health problems, including early-onset emphysema. 
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Flick James
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« Reply #103 on: July 26, 2011, 08:09:06 PM »

...
That's true. I'm not particularly a fan, but it's always sad when the media reacts with the standard presumption of guilt and assumes she died of an overdose. The autopsy is initially inconclusive, and there were no drugs found in her home. I'm not saying she did or not, but so far, there's nothing indicating an overdose other than her reputation. That saddest part of that is that it takes people about 1.5 seconds to assume the cause once the media starts making it's sick jokes. I feel sorry for her family that would probably like to find out the cause of death without all the media bulls**t proclaiming her an ovedose when initial evidence does not suggest it.
Her father has been particularly vocal about AMY's drug abuse and self-destructive path.  And, as I'm sure AndyC would agree, he felt that whatever happened to her would be entirely AMY's own fault.  She had a number of health problems, including early-onset emphysema. 


I don't doubt it. My main point is simply the media frenzy. It's more than a little sickening to me. And people just eat it up.
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Allhallowsday
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« Reply #104 on: July 26, 2011, 09:56:16 PM »

...I don't doubt it. My main point is simply the media frenzy. It's more than a little sickening to me. And people just eat it up.
Yeh, I agree.  I think I am trying to share that I do agree with Andy's disgust, if I read him right.  Yet, I also admit to being a fan, and I am always sad when an artist I admire dies, even if through self-destruction.  I am saddened by AMY WINEHOUSE's passing, as she was a rare artist, and I love her records.
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