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Author Topic: Real ID "What do you think about it?"  (Read 12354 times)
lester1/2jr
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2008, 03:29:44 PM »

most of the people weren't holding up signs that said things like that.  yuo are talking abuot like 8 people. 


virtually all of the arab world resents our foreign policy.  rich, poor, right wing left wing.  they really don't like us supporting their dictators and giving billions to them to help them crack down on their opponents.  hard to believe but they don't.

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all Jews and Christians

lol.  there are 15,000 jews who live in Iran.  and there were thousands of christians living in and around the middle east including palestine till the europeans showed up. 

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there is such a thing as real good and evil in this world.

so go and fight evil in the world.  include me out.  my ancestors didn't come here to police the world.  they came for liberty and prosperity.  the world is big and crazy and it always will be. 



this is all just neo con propaganda.  they know nothign about the middle east, as is evidenced by their prediction that Iraq would be a cakewalk. 
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trekgeezer
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2008, 03:46:50 PM »

  Just last year, when Pope Benedict remarked (accurately) that Islam's history is filled with violence, Muslims in Africa protested by shooting a 62 year old nun who was a medical missionary in the back, and torching a Christian girls' school. 


The Catholic Church is hardly an organization that should be criticizing others for their violent past.  They have performed quite enough horrible acts in their own past.

This doesn't excuse either side for anything they do now.  Both sides of this have their share of blame in what is going on.  The Arab world has a lot to be deservedly upset about, but terrorism is never an answer to anything.

I feel that liberty removed or freedom forsaken in the name of fighting these guys just brings them one step closer to victory.   Most of the stuff our government has done to "protect us" since 9/11 has been nothing but a show.  Do you think being forced to take your shoes off at the airport is making anyone more secure?

All this by passing of the legal system in listening in on our conversations and watching everything we do on the internet is just setting up a system that if ripe for political abuse.   I guess most of you aren't old enough to remember the 60's and early 70's when the FBI had files on everyone that even burped in the wrong direction.

This ID thing could be a good or a bad thing, but it's our duty as Americans to watch what government does and call them on the bad stuff.  When we act as sheep for anyone , we're p**sing on our heritage.


Please make sure that the conversation here stays civil and doesn't become personal.
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2008, 04:37:21 PM »

The Catholic Church is hardly an organization that should be criticizing others for their violent past.  They have performed quite enough horrible acts in their own past.

True, but then again this isn't the middle ages. And that is a problem where fighting a medieval mentality with modern morals. IF and only IF we fight fire with fire well they get the message.

I'd say to the Islamic world, get your radicals under control or the next time some western person from any country gets so much as a scratch, Mecca will be nothing more greasy spot. Keep it up and all your cities will be greasy spots, and don't just say it, do it. You'd be surprised just how fast the Islamic leaders all of the sudden know where these radicals they claim they can't find are at. I'd be willing to bet Musharraf knows where bin Laden is at.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.
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indianasmith
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 05:09:26 PM »

"This ID thing could be a good or a bad thing, but it's our duty as Americans to watch what government does and call them on the bad stuff.  When we act as sheep for anyone , we're p**sing on our heritage. "

Karma to Trekgeezer for that one!!!

Lester, you do have the courage of your convictions.  I just wish they weren't so wrong.  But, freedom of expression is one thing we all seem to agree on - at least.

Cheeze - you are still the man.
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2008, 05:20:05 PM »

Lester, you do have the courage of your convictions.  I just wish they weren't so wrong.  But, freedom of expression is one thing we all seem to agree on - at least.

Soon as he gets his national ID we can track him down and "re-educate" him.

Sincerely,
The Ministry of Truth 
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dean
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« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2008, 07:15:13 PM »


They were looking to implement a 'Smart Card' here for some time, which basically has your Medicare details, health issues and a whole lot of other information on it to make things easier, allegedly. 

There is of course the other side of security, but this debate has raged longer than that was an issue [that is, before 9/11]

Many people are against it due to the very real possibility of this data card being used too easily in identity fraud.  That's really my main concern.

As for this situation, well anything done under the pretense of national security always makes me nervous, but I don't see how having an ID is a bad thing [though this thing about passports being needed for domestic flights seem ridiculous]

The way I see it, I need an ID to get into a pub/club [well sometimes], I need a license to drive my car, so what's wrong with just having various official forms of ID for people without a license?  As long as it's not a mandatory thing then meh, whatever.  The worry for me is what they are using it for.

 
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BTM
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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2008, 09:29:46 PM »

they don't want to kill 3000 years of whatever, they want us to stop bombing them and overthrowing their democratically elected leaders.  They have been on the swame planet as us for thousands of years and till we started going over there taknig their oil we never had a problem with them.

Uh, wrong. 

For example, the Crusades were as much a preemptive strike as it was a religious war.  The Muslims of the time were barrel rolling through Asia and Europe conquering at will and if the wars hadn't occurred, odds are we'd all be speaking Arabic and wouldn't be on computers because they would have never been invented.

Do you SERIOUSLY think that if we just pulled completely out of the Europe and the Middle East TODAY, all the fanatical terrorists of the world would just go, "Oh, good!  Now we won't have to kill any of those Americans, we'll just live in peace and go about our lives (after we nuke Israel, of course)."?

If so, I've got a bridge in Kuwait I'd like to sell you.
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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2008, 10:41:42 AM »

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Do you SERIOUSLY think that if we just pulled completely out of the Europe and the Middle East TODAY, all the fanatical terrorists of the world would just go, "Oh, good!  Now we won't have to kill any of those Americans, we'll just live in peace and go about our lives (after we nuke Israel, of course)."?

I don't care what they do.  No i don't think they'll start being peaceful.  we have 30 million people living under the poverty line here in america.  I'd rather we's get rid of the income tax complately so we can bring their standard of living up via the free markeet and hopefully other nations will lead by our example.

the rivalries in the middle east have been going on since before america existed and i have no interst in getting in the middle of them.

I believe in the law of the jungle.  the israelis are going to have to stand and fight or they will be overrun.  we are going to have to stop borrowing so much and debasing our currency.  we are all just surving and luxuries like bring \ing democracy to the world are not something we can afford in my opinion
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AndyC
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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2008, 11:05:06 AM »

I have to agree that backing off the war on terror is entirely the wrong thing to do. For all the reasons we hear of why people resort to terrorism, it really comes down to one. Terrorism works. Blow up a building or a train or a plane full of innocent people in a normally peaceful area, and see how fast your enemy loses his resolve. The WTC was big enough and bold enough that people demanded retaliation, but even then there were many saying the USA brought that on themselves, and advocating a cessation of any activities in the Middle East. Other incidents have resulted in a higher percentage of people blaming themselves or their governments for attacks on their own country, and the answer, they say, is to get out of the Middle East.

If every terrorist attack resulted in greater resolve and greater involvement, I think they'd eventually move away from it. Backing off in the face of terrorism is precisely what it aims to accomplish, and will only make matters worse.
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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2008, 12:21:46 PM »

As I said before I have no problem with a national ID, don't think it'll be a whole lot of good at catching terrorists and while there is a potential for abuse if we watch out for it we can stop it before it starts, this is still a democracy. I honestly believe that the next administration, whether Republican or Democrat, is going to be forced to modify, replace or remove the Patriot Act because it's starting to get people upset and they're starting to get vocal about it.
I have no problem with Muslim Fundamentalists who believe that my country is the great Satan, and who hate us just because of who we are and what we believe. This is a free world, what you choose to believe is your business, not mine. When these fundamentalists attempt to foist their beliefs about everything from religion and morality to science and politics on the rest of the world through the use of force then we all have a problem. If you look at history you will see that these people have been using violence and conquest to force their beliefs on a non Muslim world. Now we have terrorists who, lacking the courage of their forefathers, kill nuns, burn schools, blow up churches and even mosques that belong to a different sect, bomb embassies, hijack planes, kill thousands of people, even brain wash their own children into becoming suicide bombers because they don't like the way the rest of the world lives or believes. These people are not reasonable, they are not tolerant, they are not rational, the only thing they seem to understand is the use of force and violence. I can forsee a time when the rest of the world, including the Muslims who are reasonable and tolerant, unite to destroy these throwbacks to the dark ages.
Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant.
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BTM
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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2008, 04:44:00 PM »


I don't care what they do.


So, you wouldn't care if Iran develops nukes?  Or wouldn't be concerned about who they might sell them to?   


No i don't think they'll start being peaceful.  we have 30 million people living under the poverty line here in america.  I'd rather we's get rid of the income tax completely so we can bring their standard of living up via the free market


I agree, but what does income tax have to do with the discussion?  I mean, I'd advocate disbanding the IRS and creating a consumption based tax, but again, that's another thread.


and hopefully other nations will lead by our example.


And hopefully Angelina Jolie and Jessica Alba will find me attractive and offer me a threeway, but that's not likely either.  Europe is too busy accusing of us being "repressed", "prudish" and "unsophisticated", while the Middle East is too busy accusing us of being an evil, sex filled, homosexual supporting Nation.  (It's like, make up your mind, people!)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 12:45:42 PM by BTM » Logged

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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 02:52:20 PM »

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So, you wouldn't care if Iran develops nukes?  Or wouldn't be concerned about who they might sell them to?

no.  you think Iran is going to nuke us?  we'd evaporate them before they even thought of it.  They barely have armed forces, certainly nothing relative to ours.  iran does not want war with the unites states.

are the USSR or CHina worried about Iran's nukes?  they are certainly alot closer to them then we are.  I'm not going to allow dick cheney's paranoia to rule my life.  the muslims want us out of their countries, we should leave.  the cold war is over, there's no reason for us to be there.  we can buy oil from whoever.    Saudi Arabia's offical state relgion is wahabi islam.  they fund wahabi mosques all around the world where terrorists are indoctorinated.  we can't do worse than that.


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income tax..

well, that's how they pay for these things.  welfare, warfare.  all the things politicians do to justify their obsolete existence.  cut that off,  i think they will be much less worried about Iran or special intersts.  I mean, what would all the people who rely on the US governmetn do if it didn't exist?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 03:56:19 PM by lester1/2jr » Logged
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« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 07:50:48 PM »

Any government anywhere can do what they like to keep us "safe", but the terrorists will always find a way to circumvent the rules and bring buildings down using planes.

I think the goal of terrorists isn't to get us to hate certain cultures, it's more insidious than than.  I think their real power has come from the fact that the western world is so scared to scratch it's own arse, they are punishing their own citizens by tightening the ID clamps down.  They are sitting back laughing at how stupid we all are for seeing shadows under every bush and blowing the hell out of it.

Fear and paranoia build on themselves and it will get worse.

In the early 80s, our then Prime Minister tried to pass a law that everyone had to have a National ID Card.  It got voted out by a resounding margin.  Any politician who has since tried to bring up the subject has pretty much been howled out of existence by the public at large and the media.

Any time that law comes back, they can kiss my arse.  Our privacy is already invaded too much and we are not the worst country for it by any means.  I would still like my life to belong to me and not have some underpaid public servant calling up my name on a database whenever they feel like it just to see what I had for breakfast.




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lester1/2jr
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2008, 09:28:49 AM »

 I didn't do 9/11,  why shuold i have to be penalized for it?  they should all give us money as an apology for screwing up so bad that they didn't see theattack coming even with tens of billions of dollars of CIA and whatnot.



they have some machine that takes your picture at an airport and you are naked basically.  it's an x ray machine orf sorts.  what a perfect metaphor for how we have lost our dignity from this



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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2008, 09:42:19 AM »


 they should all give us money as an apology for screwing up so bad that they didn't see theattack coming


Is this comment consistent with "do away with the income tax?"

Jesse Helms (love him or hate him, he is eminently quotable) once said we can drill for oil just as good through glass as we can through sand.

Thank about that.   Wink
« Last Edit: January 15, 2008, 10:11:12 AM by ulthar » Logged

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